EU Referendum Results Thread | Leave have won, Cameron resigns

[No11]

There's alot of these people

I genuinely believe that there are plenty that vote either way but have no real clue why.

Do they just want to play it safe?
Do they just want change?
Who do they believe?
Who knows what the future holds?
Do they trust politicians?
If they do which ones do they trust , the ones who lie or the other ones who also lie.

The one thing that pisses me is all this racist crap, regardless of peoples views on immigration that alone does not make someone/ anyone a racist.

 

[Nytram Shakes]

It definitely wasn't the time for a protest vote and unfortunately the ones who will be hit the hardest by the likely fallout will be the poor, the underemployed and the honest middle ground tax payer who will be expected to keep us afloat with the young being especially hard hit as they will find it even harder to get on the housing ladder, maintain steady and well paid employment and generally make the sort of progress my generation took for granted.

I don't think your kicking analogy is wrong either but sadly the right wing media have done a great job for many decades prior to the possibility of a referendum convincing those being kicked that the boot was on the foot of the EU or this months demon in waiting be it illegal or economic migrants, benefit frauds, single mothers etc rather than it being big UK corporations and our politicians doing the kicking. The overdrive they went into in the run up to the referendum has helped create a toxic attitude in Britain and fractured the country pretty much down the middle and that too is something that could take a generation or more for us to overcome.

i dont think you can just blame the media.... i mean ive done some really shitty and low paid jobs in my time, ive survived for a few years back in the late 00's having 3 zero hour contracts at once just hoping one will give me enough work to pay rent next month....... and working those jobs you see the amount of immigrants that are doing them too, and part of you is bound to think.... well if they weren't in the country their would be more hours for me and i wouldn't need to be so worried. i get how appaling that sounds, and i hate to even admit it, cos beyond out im still friends with some of the Slovkian people i worked with to this day, so wishing ure mates out the country is fecked up in all kind of ways, but thats the kind of thoughts that living that live drives you too.

ive been lucky since ive managed to get an ok paid job, and get my foot on the property ladder, but lots of my mates havnt been so lucky. and ill never forget what it felt like to be in that situation. its terrifying, you are angry and upset and feel totally powerless.

so im really not sure how much we can blame the media for.

 

[Prodigal7]

I hereby renounce my English Nationality. I will be applying for Scottish citizenship when they leave.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

I hereby renounce my English Nationality. I will be applying for Scottish citizenship when they leave.

You can start by taking a citizenship test. Complete the following sentence;

"I was concerned that my neighbour was still listening to Crazy Frog at 4 in the morning as he danced around his back garden. I decided to deal with this matter by smashing the cnut over the head with a <blank>"

 

[berbatrick]

so im really not sure how much we can blame the media for.

The popular mass media has spread the message that the EU is responsible for these economic ills, primarily in terms of migration cutting the job market and benefits, secondly with needless nanny state regulation and bureaucratic spending, and finally with 350m a week. Whereas it's been primarily due to a global economic slowdown caused by unregulated banks (US and UK policy), worsened by austerity (UK and EU policy), and directed specifically at the poor by the Conservative government.

 

[Dirty Schwein]

 

[DenisIrwin]

I can back it up with my own anecdotal evidence. I used to work for an agency that supplied employees for a logistics company to sort parcels for delivery in a warehouse, we would bring in EU migrants by the bus load because it was the only way to actually meet the demand. The work is all night and bloody hard, lads would come in from Poland and boss it tbh, English lads we brought in were soft as shit and a lot of them packed it in within the month because they couldn't hack it. Way more than migrant workers at any rate. The labour turnover at the place was pretty high and we would be canvassing for new recruits on a daily basis for various reasons (leavers, sick cover, holiday cover, etc). I can guarantee that without the EU workers coming in the place would be fecked, they would never get the sort done on time and it would undoubtedly affect the delivery network in a big way. There's not even a question of it, you just couldn't get British workers in at the same rate. People wanting to close the borders because they don't like hearing an Eastern European accent when they go to pick up their kebab don't live in the real world. Migrants grease the gears and we need 'em.

Sounds like a shit company. Do they have posters on the walls saying how much they value their workers? I've seen that sort of thing all too often. I usually can't help glancing over at the boss's car park.

 

[Lennon7]

He's just as bad. This whole thing happened because of his desperate attempt to stay in power.

That's completely true, and of course I don't feel sorry for that scumbag but I was just on about his half heartfelt speech today

 

[Nytram Shakes]

I genuinely believe that there are plenty that vote either way but have no real clue why.

Do they just want to play it safe?
Do they just want change?
Who do they believe?
Who knows what the future holds?
Do they trust politicians?
If they do which ones do they trust , the ones who lie or the other ones who also lie.

The one thing that pisses me is all this racist crap, regardless of peoples views on immigration that alone does not make someone/ anyone a racist.

i i spent a month trying to get answers to work out which way to vote, cos i genniunly didn't know, i asked people, i reserched it, i watched the debates.... and u'd think in a debate this important, people would be helpful free with the facts, try and support people who just wanted to vote for what was best..... did they feck, my girlfriend was call a racist for simply asking on her facebook page if immigration is a problem, i was called not british for thinking i was gonna vote in, i was lied to and had the facts twisted constantly by people just trying to win an argument not trying to provide information.... and in the end i gave up and didn't vote, cos i couldn't be sure what was right.

and im pretty sure i cant have been the only one feeling like that, so loads of people must of just guessed..... which is ridiculous in a vote of such far reaching consequences...... but what choice did they have when you have two sides just standing their lying spinning spreading hate......... the hole thing has been disgusting!

 

[Prodigal7]

You can start by taking a citizenship test. Complete the following sentence;

"I was concerned that my neighbour was still listening to Crazy Frog at 4 in the morning as he danced around his back garden. I decided to deal with this matter by smashing the cnut over the head with a <blank>"

Better than the soon to be English test. "Do you hate prosperity, cooperation and the rest of the world?"
Ok you're in.

 

[Prodigal7]

i i spent a month trying to get answers to work out which way to vote, cos i genniunly didn't know, i asked people, i reserched it, i watched the debates.... and u'd think in a debate this important, people would be helpful free with the facts, try and support people who just wanted to vote for what was best..... did they feck, my girlfriend was call a racist for simply asking on her facebook page if immigration is a problem, i was called not british for thinking i was gonna vote in, i was lied to and had the facts twisted constantly by people just trying to win an argument not trying to provide information.... and in the end i gave up and didn't vote, cos i couldn't be sure what was right.

and im pretty sure i cant have been the only one feeling like that, so loads of people must of just guessed..... which is ridiculous in a vote of such far reaching consequences...... but what choice did they have when you have two sides just standing their lying spinning spreading hate......... the hole thing has been disgusting!

I don't care if this sounds undemocratic. Some things are beyond the publics (including mine) understanding and shouldn't be put to a referendum because no one knows fully what they're doing.

 

[Xeno]

11,334,576 voted for the current Tory government for an outright majority.
16,141,241 voted to remain. 16m > 11m. Drag this shit out till the next GE. In fact, can we call a snap GE with the current term limits?

 

[Nytram Shakes]

I don't care if this sounds undemocratic. Some things are beyond the publics (including mine) understanding and shouldn't be put to a referendum because no one knows fully what they're doing.

your probably right..... i freely admit this vote was beyond me. i tried and tired to figure out which side is right, but i couldn't do it, so i didn't think it was fair for me to vote.

problem is that you can't trust politicians to do whats right either as they seem to be more corrupt then anyone else........ so i don't no what the answer is..... the only thing i can think of is people need to be better, cleverer, honester, fairer, nicer... better! beyond that thier doesnt seem to be a solution

on which note im going to the pub!

 

[El Zoido]

Sounds like a shit company. Do they have posters on the walls saying how much they value their workers? I've seen that sort of thing all too often. I usually can't help glancing over at the boss's car park.

Warehouse work is absolute shit in almost every instance, I've worked in four or five different ones myself and hated every moment. That's why labour turnover is so high and you need access to workers, that's just the reality of it.

 

[Powderfinger]

you can kind of see why people have lashed out on this vote though, you have politicians, experts, celebrities, banging on about saving the economy and workers rights at a time when the economy isn't working for so many, and so many don't feel like they have any rights. its kind of like telling a person whose getting kicked to vote to keep getting kicked cos they might get kicked harder.

Spot on.

The reality is that voters have so little information and education about things like the EU that asking why they don't understand the benefits is just barking up the wrong tree.

1. Take a few decades of an economic system that has distributed the gains of growth very disproportionately, so that 70-80% or thereabouts of the country don't feel like they're getting ahead economically. And then a more short-term dynamic in which the economic struggles of the middle and working classes have been exacerbated by the recession and austerity.

2. Add a cultural dimension in which these kinds of changes have been occurring very rapidly in ways that bewilder a lot of provincial and older people.

3. Throw in a pattern in which the highly educated and highly skilled in the major urban centers, those who reap almost all the rewards of the new economy, regularly look down their noses at all the provincial people who just don't "get" the greatness of this combination of economic liberalism and social liberalism, and therefore must be idiots or racists.

And what you get is a bunch of pissed off voters outside the major urban centers who are willing to vote for change for change's sake, especially if they get to stick it to the urban political and economic elites in the process.

 

[Prodigal7]

Spot on.

The reality is that voters have so little information and education about things like the EU that asking why they don't understand the benefits is just barking up the wrong tree.

1. Take a few decades of an economic system that has distributed the gains of growth very disproportionately, so that 70-80% or thereabouts of the country don't feel like they're getting ahead economically. And then a more short-term dynamic in which the economic struggles of the middle and working classes have been exacerbated by the recession and austerity.

2. Add a cultural dimension in which these kinds of changes have been occurring very rapidly in ways that bewilder a lot of provincial and older people.

3. Throw in a pattern in which the highly educated and highly skilled in the major urban centers, those who reap almost all the rewards of the new economy, regularly look down their noses at all the provincial people who just don't "get" the greatness of this combination of economic liberalism and social liberalism, and therefore must be idiots or racists.

And what you get is a bunch of pissed off voters outside the major urban centers who are willing to vote for change for change's sake, especially if they get to stick it to the urban political and economic elites in the process.

Exactly, but I'm still angry they didn't think about how it will affect them. Like I said before, no one knows the exact consequences but it seems the leave people think they've got absolutely nothing to loose when they do i.e. more tax, less benefits etc

 

[Untied]

Spot on.

The reality is that voters have so little information and education about things like the EU that asking why they don't understand the benefits is just barking up the wrong tree.

1. Take a few decades of an economic system that has distributed the gains of growth very disproportionately, so that 70-80% or thereabouts of the country don't feel like they're getting ahead economically. And then a more short-term dynamic in which the economic struggles of the middle and working classes have been exacerbated by the recession and austerity.

2. Add a cultural dimension in which these kinds of changes have been occurring very rapidly in ways that bewilder a lot of provincial and older people.

3. Throw in a pattern in which the highly educated and highly skilled in the major urban centers, those who reap almost all the rewards of the new economy, regularly look down their noses at all the provincial people who just don't "get" the greatness of this combination of economic liberalism and social liberalism, and therefore must be idiots or racists.

And what you get is a bunch of pissed off voters outside the major urban centers who are willing to vote for change for change's sake, especially if they get to stick it to the urban political and economic elites in the process.

Whilst I don't disagree with the explantation, I've seen a few similar takes and all have a tendency to rationalise what is clearly an irrational decision.

 

[Powderfinger]

Exactly, but I'm still angry they didn't think about how it will affect them. Like I said before, no one knows the exact consequences but it seems the leave people think they've got absolutely nothing to loose when they do i.e. more tax, less benefits etc

I agree completely. Many of the leave voters, or at least areas in which leave was strongest, are likely to be the biggest losers. The vote was in many ways very irrational. But rationality and a sober assessment of available information are often very overrated in voting behavior as compared to factors like emotion and self-identity.

 

[berbatrick]

11,334,576 voted for the current Tory government for an outright majority.
16,141,241 voted to remain. 16m > 11m. Drag this shit out till the next GE. In fact, can we call a snap GE with the current term limits?

The current Tory government called for the referendum and contains some of the bigger supporters of leave. A further 4 million voted for UKIP. The holding of the referendum and its outcome reflect the popular will.

 

[Powderfinger]

Whilst I don't disagree with the explantation, I've seen a few similar takes and all have a tendency to rationalise what is clearly an irrational decision.

Yup. As I just said in a post above, I think the leave vote was pretty irrational for many of its voters. But rationality often gets swamped by other factors.

 

[Xeno]

The current Tory government called for the referendum and contains some of the bigger supporters of leave. A further 4 million voted for UKIP. The holding of the referendum and its outcome reflect the popular will.

I'm saying a single-issue party called 'feck the referendum results (FTRR)', with those sort of turnout numbers, would get a massive majority.

 

[Mozza]

its tiny for one year, but add a simlar number to that next year, and the year after..... it adds up, just thinking ow it wil be fine is just as naive as the people who have voted out saying ow it will be fine.....

you can't just add people and add people o a population and not expect thier ever to be consquences

The population has grown every year since the war, if it was a genuine problem, and not just a natural consequence of life as I see it, would you force people to stop having children?

You can't keep adding people? Of course you can. People create demand, demand is met by supply. Only in underdeveloped nations is a population boom dangerous, we need the immigrants to fill all the jobs we create

 

[Nytram Shakes]

Spot on.

The reality is that voters have so little information and education about things like the EU that asking why they don't understand the benefits is just barking up the wrong tree.

1. Take a few decades of an economic system that has distributed the gains of growth very disproportionately, so that 70-80% or thereabouts of the country don't feel like they're getting ahead economically. And then a more short-term dynamic in which the economic struggles of the middle and working classes have been exacerbated by the recession and austerity.

2. Add a cultural dimension in which these kinds of changes have been occurring very rapidly in ways that bewilder a lot of provincial and older people.

3. Throw in a pattern in which the highly educated and highly skilled in the major urban centers, those who reap almost all the rewards of the new economy, regularly look down their noses at all the provincial people who just don't "get" the greatness of this combination of economic liberalism and social liberalism, and therefore must be idiots or racists.

And what you get is a bunch of pissed off voters outside the major urban centers who are willing to vote for change for change's sake, especially if they get to stick it to the urban political and economic elites in the process.

which is exactly why i didnt vote.... cos after a month of trying to undertand and work it out... i still didnt have a fecking clue...... so how anyone else truely understood it enough to say this is whats right is beyond me.

so yeah you just have people voting to shake things up, or cos thier angry scared.........

the hole thing has been a balls up from start to finish..... i have no idea if what we have done is right or wrong, but the way we have gone about it has defiantly been wrong!

 

[Enigma_87]

Exactly, but I'm still angry they didn't think about how it will affect them. Like I said before, no one knows the exact consequences but it seems the leave people think they've got absolutely nothing to loose when they do i.e. more tax, less benefits etc

Not living in UK, happy with the result as that would mean strong dollar which personally suits me, but really - why would anyone vote for leave? I haven't followed the exact campaign but having in mind the situation and IMO the benefits and negatives of leaving, I fail to see what you guys will benefit in the long run.

 

[Ubik]

The current Tory government called for the referendum and contains some of the bigger supporters of leave. A further 4 million voted for UKIP. The holding of the referendum and its outcome reflect the popular will.

Unfortunately the truth. We lost. A second referendum with entirely arbitrary winning margins or turnout levels is a waste of time and something we'd decry as desperate and undemocratic if the situation were reversed.

 

[Xeno]

Unfortunately the truth. We lost. A second referendum with entirely arbitrary winning margins or turnout levels is a waste of time and something we'd decry as desperate and undemocratic if the situation were reversed.

An election almost... European?

 

[Andy_Cole]

Not living in UK, happy with the result as that would mean strong dollar which personally suits me, but really - why would anyone vote for leave? I haven't followed the exact campaign but having in mind the situation and IMO the benefits and negatives of leaving, I fail to see what you guys will benefit in the long run.

It's the same question as 'why would anyone vote Trump?' Who knows but a lot people will do it.

 

[Enigma_87]

It's the same question as 'why would anyone vote Trump?' Who knows but a lot people will do it.

I always though Brits won't embrace populist bullshit tho. I'm all up for democracy but some decisions shouldn't be only in the hands of the masses.

 

[17 Van der Gouw]

I used to live in Hemel Hempstead, crap place now

Yes, an utter toilet of a town.

 

[Red Defence]

I always though Brits won't embrace populist bullshit tho. I'm all up for democracy but some decisions shouldn't be only in the hands of the masses.

Why? It's the masses that made the decision to join the EEC in the first place so it's up to them to make the decision to come out.

 

[bpet15]

Good explanation. We have those in Canada, too. They're called 'Temps'.

Called "temps" in the US as well and they definitely serve a purpose in industries that have to deal with high turnover rates.

 

[theyneverlearn]

A guy at my work today said he voted to leave because another guy at work who wanted to remain tried to explain his reasoning behind remaining and the advantages of being in the EU.

He said he just wanted to annoy him.

Another women who said they voted to leave, I asked what persuaded her to leave and she said that she remembers it being a lot better when we were not in the EU.

This lady is under 40 years old....

 

[711]

Why? It's the masses that made the decision to join the EEC in the first place so it's up to them to make the decision to come out.

Wrong again. There was no referendum before joining.

 

[Prodigal7]

http://finance.townhall.com/ticker/...tish-are-now-googling-what-the-eu-is-n2183104

Does this not make you despair?

 

[DenisIrwin]

Called "temps" in the US as well and they definitely serve a purpose in industries that have to deal with high turnover rates.

OK. Now imagine a huge proportion of the workforce as temps, most of them employed directly and not though temp agencies. What you have is basically an erosion of workers' rights, a workforce that is unable to give an answer to questions like "What is your weekly income?" because they simply don't know. A workforce that is unable to plan ahead with any great certainty becuase they never know until the last minute whether they will be working on any given day. High turnover rates become the absolute norm where they weren't previously.

 

[Red Defence]

Wrong again. There was no referendum before joining.

Referendums in the United Kingdom are by tradition extremely rare due to the principle of parliamentary sovereignty. To date, only three referendums have been held which have covered the whole of the United Kingdom: the first on membership of the European Economic Community in 1975,

It's you that's wrong, not me. I voted in it.

 

[711]

It's you that's wrong, not me. I voted in it.

We joined the common market in 1973, without any referendum, so you were wrong I'm afraid, even after googling it to check.

We did have a referendum in 1975 on whether to stay in or not. You may have voted in that one.

 

[Manny]

Explained it pretty well I thought

 

[Red Defence]

We joined the common market in 1973, without any referendum, so you were wrong I'm afraid, even after googling it to check.

We did have a referendum in 1975 on whether to stay in or not. You may have voted in that one.

Yes, we had a referendum to vote on it because people were annoyed that we had not been asked in the first place. I remember the fuss at the time because it was my first vote. We voted (not me) to stay in so we can also vote to come out.

 

[711]

Yes, we had a referendum to vote on it because people were annoyed that we had not been asked in the first place. I remember the fuss at the time because it was my first vote. We voted (not me) to stay in so we can also vote to come out.

Correct. (you can punch me later)