ETH on United philosophy: “Built a side to play direct football”… “Impossible to play like Ajax”
- Thread starter FrenchRed
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Pretty much exactly what I pondered in the ETH thread, as it was clear we were NOT attempting a full on possession/Ajax style but also weren't completely a transition based team either.
And if this is his true thoughts, then sack him immediately because anyone that strives to build a direct/transitional team and then signs Antony and Eriksen doesn't have a fecking clue how to find profiles.
And if this is his true thoughts, then sack him immediately because anyone that strives to build a direct/transitional team and then signs Antony and Eriksen doesn't have a fecking clue how to find profiles.
Arteta came as a blank canvas. He didnt have a previous club to establish his own personal brand (outside of Peps assistant) so he was never in a position to be posed that question.
I also don't think ten hag is suggesting giving up, he's just saying he can utilise a different style, which in his view isn't in optimal state as yet.
Only other person that's seems to get it. The ETH hasn't tried implementing a style is nonsense, he clearly has amongst injuries and we have suffered. A high press, high intensity side, probably closer to Klopp style than Pep.
If anything he seems to have moved away implementing it so much from earlier in the season to steady the ship. Really not been helped by the terrible form of all our attacking players.
The issue isn't that he wants to play this way, the issue is he's completely clueless in how to execute said vision. If he wanted to play in that Liverpool/Klopp style, he needed to completely sell out for pace and power in the transfer market. But he didn't do that at all, besides Hojlund all of his signings have largely been finesse/technical style players that would suggest fitting better into a more possession oriented team.
You might be reading too deep into the quotes. He may have referred to it in the context of what he has at his disposal now, and might look to build upon that later down the line.
His "never" line is classic ten hag. He gets wound up and will just shut down questions that annoy him. Maybe a Dutch league follower can back me up but I remember reading lots of abrupt shut downs from him that seemed abharant but not so literal.
Onana, Hojlund and Mount suit that style. Martinez in his style from the back too in my opinion. Antony feck no. Eriksen was a free and likely bought for an emergency technical injection.
If that's true then the glaring problem with that is that it's an experiment. Good managers like Klopp and Pep came in with a proven style and vision and the clubs fell in line with that vision. Sure they have adapted their styles but only variations of their philosophies. They didn't just start playing a completely different style. Would Barca bring in Conte and tell him to play tiki taka football? Would you bring in Mourinho and expect high pressing football? It's fkn nuts to do so. And on top of it all he bought half his Ajax team. Why? So he thought I know players who play the Ajax style well but I'll bring them to United to see if they can play transition football? Make that make sense.
It's all nice when you hear he wants to play like Klopp but if he did then he's doing it all wrong. Klopp has a 3 in midfield. Players that can pass. Dynamic attacking fullbacks. Wingers that can go both ways and cross. It's night and day. It's nothing like Klopps side.
And Klopp took time to implement and get success while also being back by a high quality data driven recruitment team finding many gems.
Eth is supported by Murtough and Fletcher and Glazers fecking up every in and out the club do.
Millions of dollars spent and 4 managers down and we still don't have an identity .
We will never have. Every manager we hire falls into the trap of United way shite
If you are right that is absolutely insane. No wonder this club is sinking into oblivion. Will be interesting to hear what he has to say years down the road. I wouldn't be surprised if his hands were tied with certain players.
Onana and Hojlund yes. Mount… eh but I’ll allow it because he is a fantastic presser even if not a great duel winner. Martinez is one of the best in the world on the ball but he struggles physically when asked to defend large spaces on his own. But this is sort of my point. All of it feels like it’s lacking any sort of real vision or Ten Hag is just useless at identifying proper profiles for what he now wants.
You can’t be a transitional team yet also have a grand total of one midfielder that can actually run with the ball at pace (and not even play said midfielder)
I agree completely. Sancho is best going through the lines as let’s be fair we expected mount too also. I’m not getting either in this current clunky setup.
Playing a more direct playstyle than Ajax is absolutely fine (although it should be noted that I believe his Ajax team was already more direct than the 'classic' Ajax style). But it is starting to feel like ETH is doubling down on 'being direct', instead of being a dominant team who plays directly. Combine that with the fact that we aren't actually doing 'direct' well, and it's just a bad sign.
I'm not going to develop a strong opinion on it while we have such a ridiculous injury list (in many games lately we don't have a single one of our starting defenders or deeper midfielders), but anybody who isn't very worried is lying to themselves.
I'm not going to develop a strong opinion on it while we have such a ridiculous injury list (in many games lately we don't have a single one of our starting defenders or deeper midfielders), but anybody who isn't very worried is lying to themselves.
Excuses excuses excuses.
We're not trying to play like a bad version of City though. We're a direct side. We don't do what they do. ETH has just admitted as much.
All you're saying is that Ten Hag would have never had the backing of the fans because the only reason why the fans were excited about him was due to what he achieved at Ajax. We wanted someone who had a mix of Pep and Klopp's style, which Ten Hag was at Ajax. We felt that it was the path forward to finally compete for the highest honors. That he is more pragmatic, and the fans are just now realizing it just means that Ten Hag was never the right manager for what the fans wanted. We wanted someone who stuck to his ideals, and even if results were not there to start, if the football could produce entertaining matches (enough to keep fans entertained), it would be a huge step forward. It would be easy to see who didn't fit that style and what needed to be bought. The results would then follow in the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th seasons.
So why on earth do we still need Ten Hag? Nobody wanted another pragmatic manager.
Klopp's football was implemented from day one. It just didn't give them results. The recruitment helped give them results. The football was there from day 1 though.
That's what United fans wanted. Almost all the best managers are functioning that way. That was the only reason why the fanbase were fully on board with Ten Hag to start. Because that is what we thought we were getting.
Not sure why so many are so up in arms about this. He's limited to what he can do with the players at his disposal and with the Glazers in charge only allowing a player or two plus loans you aren't going to see seismic shifts over night.
When Martinez and Shaw get back you're going to see Onana shine and a lot more control in games.
When Martinez and Shaw get back you're going to see Onana shine and a lot more control in games.
I want all the people who keep saying we need to be humble and patient to answer this. What exactly is the end goal if it isnt to be closer to what City and all the top teams are.
Its no wonder Bruno and Rashford dont get dropped. They literally suit the direct no control style he wants.
So he abandons the style that got him the job in the first place and wants to implement a style he has no track record of actually doing? It’s all making sense now
Commented in other thread, but if he cant stand by his footballing principle he needs to get the axe. Do any of you think any decent CEO brought over to a save a faltering company gonna mold his vision to fit the faltering company views instead of applying his own principles ?
Even if it's impossible to implement the Ajax system here because of the different personnel, he should at least able to implement SOME of the good things of that Ajax side on this United side.
I don't think fans are that stupid to expect Ajax mk 2, but there are some things of that Ajax side that are universal to every side that played good football, and that's should be implemented to this United side.
Fecking hell, I really thought he was the one
The "United Way" established by Busby is attacking football and strong emphasis on youth development. Similar philosophy to Ajax and Barcelona. We haven't done anything the United Way for a long time.
I'd argue it's since we went PLC and the focus shifted from winning titles to making as much money as possible. Which ended up with us having the Glazers as owners. Only thing that kept it going was SAF but you could see the ethos deminishing under him in the latter years.
The problem is the systematic failure to maintain that "United Way" foundation in the first place. SAF papered over the cracks but once he retired we were exposed. The C-Suit only had to focus on generating revenue and leave the SAF to make the football work.
Woodward and the Glazers shrugged of just how much SAF did to keep the show on the road and just went down the Galatico route ala Real Madrid assuming they could replicate what they do. You can do that in a league were you are guaranteed CL qualification every year and can afford to experiment with different managers. Can't do that in the PL though.
The fact that every player/manager/coach we sign seems to regress whilst they're here is what needs to be addressed. We have some deep routed issues that go beyond football that need fixing.
I just think he's realised his style is too open for week in week out football in this league. Being Ajax in Holland is one thing, they have a level of quality over and above the vast majority of their opposition to fall back on which allows them to go for it. We don't have that here and we're getting picked off time and time again, the state of the goals we've conceded this year especially have been embarrassing, school boy stuff
Even his best ajax results in that cl run saw them conceding a lot of goals along the way but they were full of confidence and flying and rode that wave. At the moment however our confidence is in the toilet and the players look like they don't believe in what they're trying to do. Once they get a set back they collapse
Maybe his style will work with city's squad but I just don't think we have the quality and that's largely down to him buying players good enough for the Dutch league but out of their depth here
Even his best ajax results in that cl run saw them conceding a lot of goals along the way but they were full of confidence and flying and rode that wave. At the moment however our confidence is in the toilet and the players look like they don't believe in what they're trying to do. Once they get a set back they collapse
Maybe his style will work with city's squad but I just don't think we have the quality and that's largely down to him buying players good enough for the Dutch league but out of their depth here
I don't want us to play like Ajax (who are bottom of the table in Holland after 8 matches), but I do expect us to play like Manchester United. I want bold possession orientated football.
What we have right now, is Ole ball. It's counter attacking and hoping for some magic from our forwards. We don't press effectively, too many of our players can't pass. We've spent god only knows how much on wingers like Sancho and Antony and have absolutely nothing to show for it. We're not giving our younger players enough of a chance.
What we have right now, is Ole ball. It's counter attacking and hoping for some magic from our forwards. We don't press effectively, too many of our players can't pass. We've spent god only knows how much on wingers like Sancho and Antony and have absolutely nothing to show for it. We're not giving our younger players enough of a chance.
Great response
Its apt.
ajax style with the likes of Rashford? 
that opportunity passed us long ago when we sacked LVG and allowed him to grow into a unchangeable direct , wasteful and not so hard working player.
that opportunity passed us long ago when we sacked LVG and allowed him to grow into a unchangeable direct , wasteful and not so hard working player.So he wants direct attacking football? When he is going to show it? Because currently we don’t create chances and thus we don’t score.
I don’t want possession for the sake of it as fc Negreira does, I want direct attacking football and goals.
I don’t want possession for the sake of it as fc Negreira does, I want direct attacking football and goals.
1. Eth isn't Klopp. Don't think anyone s claiming he is that level of Pep and Klopp.
2. As stated he has tried to implement the style but the team started conceding goals for fun in transition and did not score from the turn overs we made. As a result we have lost games and now everyone wants him sacked.
3. He has tried to re-haul the squad to give us players more comfortable in possession but also with the athleticism to defend the bigger spaces needed to play this style. The club hasn't delivered signings and an overhaul like Klopp got. That's straight facts
They didn't replace Maguire and Mctominay. They don't have a recruitment plan to get players in that fit the profile, instead seem just follow any recommendations from the manager.
Do people think Pep and Klopp go out scouting around Europe to find the players they do. No, they both had teams already established doing all this work before they arrived.
So we have brought in a good coach and instead of being patient the club and the fans shit the bed as soon as we have a rough patch.
Good luck with the next guy everyone.
Have you actually counted the number of players we've signed over the last two years?
ETH got a lot of the players he wanted, which shows that the idea "every in" was fecked up by someone is wrong.
I guess what you are saying is that we should have overidden his wish for control over transfers.
Maybe our biggest mistake was letting go of van Gaal… Yes, his football was absolutely dire to watch but maybe, maybe if we had brought in some attacking talent and worked more on creating chances we would have seen a dominant United and probably the closest thing to Pep’s City.
When Klopp came he conceded a bunch and everyone said his style of play isn't suited but eventually worked with the right recruitment
But notice how it was his style of play that people said didn't work. ETH has provided 0 style of play since the cup final and he has spent a lot of money on signings who look just as clueless as the legacy players he inherited
The most telling thing is he wants us to play this fast transitional football while playing left backs as inverted CMs, when what you want is the width.
Not if you know what you're watching and are capable of judging the progression of a team based on how they setup/play - rather than only results and/or what the media say.
I have said time and time again, my problem with ETH isn't the results, it's his complete and utter failure to create a cohesive unit. I have watched 18-months of variations on his football ideas and I'm still not clear what they are.
Statement looks more astounding as I read it again. It's an excuse and an attempt at deflection. The issue is not that we are not playing the "Ajay style" of football. The problem is we are not playing any style. Maybe he had to adjust to the resources available, but past 100 games in charge (I mean every game in league, cups and pre-season) he hasn't been able to make us play this direct style either. Klopp and Pep didn't come and win the league or make a dent in the champions league immidiately either, but it was clear as a day that they were moving towards somewhat better. They started implementing their style from the get go and then in the transfer windows filled the gaps to create winning units who play with panache. This guy like the other Dutch guy (who was 10 times better than him) just deflects blame and calls out others for his inabilities.
Just counting the days till he is gone. Total fraud.
Just counting the days till he is gone. Total fraud.
Is he wrong?
Look I completely agree with your assessment of United Under Ten Hag but your Quote about Arsenal and Arteta was as generic as it could be and though I might be mistaken or completely wrong but I think you kind of defended Ten Hag and were Pro Ten Hag not that long ago .