ESPN: Man United want evolution, not revolution under Erik ten Hag - sources

[RedRonaldo]

i mean if we are being super hopeful id say less than 5. One would just pray sancho/rashford could be wide forwards, ronaldo at ST, bruno advanced mid, then 1 cm to pair with someone like Fred, i guess just pray maguire/varane look much better in the middle, and maybe a FB between the LB/RB spot to add. And just pray ETH gets de gea playing well from the back

i dont believe for one second in that strategy but it would be the cheapest way for the board to hope this turns around.

I don’t believe that would work under ETH system, even when I am in hopeful mood.

Rashford - tend to loss ball easily with his blind runs, can’t pass or play any link up in attack

Bruno - take far too many risky pass, not suit to play possession football, can’t get involve into any build up play, our attack move would mostly ended by him passing to nowhere

Fred - very poor in passing, ETH Tiki taka passing system requires midfielder to be good passer in the team, he is the opposite of it

Maguire - too slow, tends to drag things down, can’t play high line defence. He suits more to play for a team which sit back more and defend, and we will be the opposite of that under ETH

The only players I think could work well under ETH system:

- Sancho (system player, best for build up play)
- VDB (system player, best for build up play)
- Varane (quick and experience enough)
- Ronaldo (can adapt well/quick into any system, as proven over years, no one does it better than him under different teams/systems)

 

[mitchmouse]

I'd be amazed if we recoup more than 10m in sales

we should get a sizeable chunk if Rashford leaves, and hopefully some fools will give us a few million for AWB

 

[Tarrou]

we should get a sizeable chunk if Rashford leaves, and hopefully some fools will give us a few million for AWB

i don’t think anyone will buy Rashford in his current form

his wages are too big to be a good punt for anyone

 

[mitchmouse]

i don’t think anyone will buy Rashford in his current form

his wages are too big to be a good punt for anyone

I'm sure lots of managers will think they can get better out of him (they may be right or wrong). My guess is he'll go to Arsenal or a good (maybe not top) side in Europe. More likely as a part of some deal for us to get someone at a reduced price. Will he ever be the same old Marcus Rashford? I doubt it but something looks very, very wrong with him as a United player suddenly so I reckon he'll be keen to go but we went let him go on the cheap

 

[kouroux]

Tbh we don't need that many incomings, as our squad has been too big. Also, a few loan players will come back, such as DvB, Amad, Laird, Garner, and maybe Martial so probably 3-4 new players will be enough. The important thing is that they are good enough and more so fit the profile in how we want to play.

Too big but full of pointless players and if you were to trim, we'd see that the squad is potentially very thin

 

[justsomebloke]

I think there will be a focus on moving shit out, signing players for the first 11 and filling the squad up from the youth academy. Our focus should just be getting a strong first 11 as quickly as possible. I would happily see it trimmed down to 15 senior pros supplemented by youth next season. If we are playing system football then the younger players should just slot in. In the past when he was in form, we saw the defence fall to pieces when HM was out injured because of a reliance on individuals.

Even if the youth in turn are not up to it individually and need replacing. But there will be an element of ‘making do’. For example, i believe that AWB and Shaw will get back towards form and be our first choice wingbacks next season, but will probably need replacing in due course. But we just have to strengthen the spine of the team - cb, dm, cm, striker. We cant bring in 11 new players at once

No. And we don't need to either. It still remains to be seen who EtH thinks he can work with, it may be more players than we think it will be. My point is just that there should be a plan derived from an analysis of where we are and what we need, and investments and outgoings should be geared to that. What we read here just smacks of the same old approach.

 

[RedRonaldo]

i don’t think anyone will buy Rashford in his current form

his wages are too big to be a good punt for anyone

I reckon 30-40m would still attract many buyers, as he is still only 24 and is England international, and not long ago he is capable of scoring 20+ a season.

 

[Cassidy]

I don’t believe that would work under ETH system, even when I am in hopeful mood.

Rashford - tend to loss ball easily with his blind runs, can’t pass or play any link up in attack

Bruno - take far too many risky pass, not suit to play possession football, can’t get involve into any build up play, our attack move would mostly ended by him passing to nowhere

Fred - very poor in passing, ETH Tiki taka passing system requires midfielder to be good passer in the team, he is the opposite of it

Maguire - too slow, tends to drag things down, can’t play high line defence. He suits more to play for a team which sit back more and defend, and we will be the opposite of that under ETH

The only players I think could work well under ETH system:

- Sancho (system player, best for build up play)
- VDB (system player, best for build up play)
- Varane (quick and experience enough)
- Ronaldo (can adapt well/quick into any system, as proven over years, no one does it better than him under different teams/systems)

Some of the players you said can’t do certain things actually can and could if the coaching was right.

Rashford used to link up quite well when he broke into the team for instance. For me we have just had managers who did not focus or prioritise this kind of play. Our wide players are always isolated

 

[romufc]

None of those teams played possession football.

I can guarantee you all those teams had more than 60% possession.

Real in the final against Ateletico 0-0 had 66% possession

Sarri at Juve was known for his possession football.

 

[LARulz]

I'm sure lots of managers will think they can get better out of him (they may be right or wrong). My guess is he'll go to Arsenal or a good (maybe not top) side in Europe. More likely as a part of some deal for us to get someone at a reduced price. Will he ever be the same old Marcus Rashford? I doubt it but something looks very, very wrong with him as a United player suddenly so I reckon he'll be keen to go but we went let him go on the cheap

There is absolutely 0 chance Rashford is going to get sold to Arsenal unless they pay through the nose. He may be shit tight now but is still young, has shown quality and extremely marketable. That's not even mentioning Arsenal are a direct rival to us, especially right now.

 

[JohnnyKills]

The club are targeting Randy Orton and Batista as possible signings

Haha classic wwe gag

 

[wolvored]

10 players was never going to happen. That spend would be bigger than Ole spent over 3 seasons. I reckon 4 will probably come in. 4 to be promoted from the youth or loan players. I could see at least 8 leaving though.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Some of the players you said can’t do certain things actually can and could if the coaching was right.

Rashford used to link up quite well when he broke into the team for instance. For me we have just had managers who did not focus or prioritise this kind of play. Our wide players are always isolated

I am not too sure, I have seen nothing in their career to suggest they can, at this stage it’s only wishful thinking.

Rashford does links up well with Martial at one point though, but he has since developed into counter attack player who relies heavily on running into space to attack. I don’t believe he has it to break down tight defence who sit back tight to defend, as we often struggle over the years playing against team giving us no space.

 

[Cassidy]

I am not too sure, I have seen nothing in their career to suggest they can, at this stage it’s only wishful thinking.

Rashford does links up well with Martial at one point though, but he has since developed into counter attack player who relies heavily on running into space to attack. I don’t believe he has it to break down tight defence who sit back tight to defence, as we often struggle over the years playing against team giving us no space.

Yes and that is because that is what the managers asked him to do

 

[romufc]

He's 37 and cant press. Him scoring while we do poorly is not the goal. He can be a good rotation striker at this stage but if you want a striker to fit a high intensity possesion game he's not your man at this stage of his career.

It's not a "weird take". Many people can see this is clear.

He is 37, you expect him to press like a 27 year old? If you watch him, he does press but just not as much. At the moment, no one in our team presses, so that means we shouldn't have hired ETH because none of them can press?

A strikers job is to finish of chances.

Are you trying to say CR7 is a counter attacking striker? Becuase he doesn't make those runs anymore, doesn't have the pace. If you watch him, he is a inside the penalty box player, which system does that suit the most? Possession, because he can make runs in the penalty area.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Yes and that is because that is what the managers asked him to do

I don’t think that’s the case now. Sure Rangnick did not ask him to run into defenders leg every single time when he had the ball. His passing has also been shocking this season. It has nothing to do with instruction, just lack of footballing ability at this stage.

 

[Cassidy]

I don’t think that’s the case now. Sure Rangnick did not ask him to run into defenders leg every single time when he had the ball. His passing has also been shocking this season. It has nothing to do with instruction, just lack of footballing ability at this stage.

Im talking about the 5 years under Jose and Ole where he was turned into a counter attacking player.

Ralf has already said plenty of times that he has not had a lot of times with the players on the training ground.

Anyway the point was general, its not neccesarily Rashford. Ten Hag will suprise a few of us with what he gets from certain players.

 

[ForeverRed1]

Nkunku 55mil
David - 45mil
Eriksen - free
Kalvin Phillips - 50 mil
Kamara - free
Timber - 25million


Bring back Garner, Laird, Brandon Williams.
Promote - mejbri and Garnacho.


Going - Pogba, Lingard, Martial, matic, mata, Jones, telles, henderson, bailley, awb, grant, Cavani.


That’s basically 11 new players in the squad and 12 going. Will bring a totally different mentality and attitude, especially with good coaching.

 

[TwoSheds]

RB, CB, DM, ST is the absolute minimum. If we don't get 4 players we'll be even more fecked than we are this season, even if we do keep hold of some of the not very good wantaways like Bailly.

 

[The Boy]

Yes and that is because that is what the managers asked him to do

This is exactly right. You do not need nearly as much change as so many people seem to think and it's difficult to totally change a first team and get coherent play for much of the next season.

It might be unpopular but Maguire is a better defender than he has shown this season, part of that is playing in freefalling team, part is having very little screening from the midfield and part is a drop in form, he can be a lot better, he may not ever be the best but he can be good enough for the moment.

In midfield I think you do need a bit of an over haul and with Pogba and Matic leaving I'd expect 2 new players here, but I would keep both Fred and McT. It's going be interesting to see if ETH can get anything out of VdB.

Rashford should stay he's bang out of form and like Maguire, he's struggling in a wrecked team and dressing room, but he has so much talent that we've seen again and again, you don't go from 20 goals a season to nothing for ever! You will also need a striker with Cavani leaving and Greenwood suspended.

AWB does need replacing I think, but again it is easier to coach attack rather than defence and he was massively rated when you bought him from Palace, it would be interesting to know how he would have fared under Pep or Klopp.

I think you could have a very workable unit with only 3-4 signings a striker, one or two midfielders and a full back.

 

[romufc]

Bruno - take far too many risky pass, not suit to play possession football, can’t get involve into any build up play, our attack move would mostly ended by him passing to nowhere

Yes, the player who has created the most chances at our club always ends a move by passing nowhere.

 

[NicolaSacco]

Yes, the player who has created the most chances at our club always ends a move by passing nowhere.

You’ve taken his word ‘mostly’ and changed it to ‘always’ and then attempted to mock him for something he literally did not say!

 

[Skills]

I agree with this. As a club, we need to get into a mode of continuous improvement rather than the tear it down and start again thing we do every 3 years.

 

[Hammondo]

I can guarantee you all those teams had more than 60% possession.

Real in the final against Ateletico 0-0 had 66% possession

Sarri at Juve was known for his possession football.

That doesn't mean they played possession football. Liverpool gets those percentages and do not play possession football.

 

[romufc]

That doesn't mean they played possession football. Liverpool gets those percentages and do not play possession football.

So what football is it when you have more than 60% possession? Counter attacking?

 

[RedRonaldo]

Im talking about the 5 years under Jose and Ole where he was turned into a counter attacking player.

Ralf has already said plenty of times that he has not had a lot of times with the players on the training ground.

Anyway the point was general, its not neccesarily Rashford. Ten Hag will suprise a few of us with what he gets from certain players.

That’s probably the case but we don’t know that, as he has spent most of his career playing under them. But judging from the strength and weakness of his game, there’s no reason to believe he would suit to play under possession system , it’s only wishful thinking.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Yes, the player who has created the most chances at our club always ends a move by passing nowhere.

Look it’s not something I’ve said, and let’s make this clear - Bruno is the type of player who only focus on taking risk to deliver final ball, he does not do anything else a playmaker normally does, such as involve in build up play, or control the flow of the game. Hence he is probably not the right type of functional AM to play in possession football system, which requires players to take part in a lot in build up play. He is rather an anti-build up type of impact player, which is opposite to the type of football ETH is asking for his midfielder to play.

 

[Lentwood]

The midfield and a CF have to be the priority for me. I could see Ten Hag making a solid-enough back 5 from DDG, Henderson, Shaw, Telles, AWB, Williams, Maguire, Lindelof and Varane - however I really don't see how we can continue to function without at least one CM who can handle the ball in tight areas and play on the half-turn.

We've talked about how Fred has improved under Rangnick, but this is because he's playing higher and the onus is on winning the ball, not moving the ball. Scott McTominay can only really play in straight lines, so looks OK when charging through the midfield/bursting forward but can't play those little quick passes or round the corner passes in midfield that we desperately miss to unlock high-presses.

We need two CMs really, and they both need to be strong, aggressive, mobile, aware of space and danger and able to play on the half-turn. These type of players won't be easy to find, and therefore if we have to just play it safe and pay over the odds for Rice and (possibly) Kalvin Phillips, then that is what I would do.

At CF, we can go on about Ronaldo's goal return, and it's been very good in an average side. However, it's negative e/v overall for the team to play with a CF who doesn't press and doesn't offer much in-behind the opposition. We need someone who will run in-behind and press like a tiger in that position, and if they do that and score 10 goals, it's far more valuable overall than someone who offers neither of those things but scores 20.

I'd like to see a CF come in who defenders really hate playing against. Someone they know will give them a real physical test. That doesn't mean a battering ram, but someone who won't give them a second on the ball and is constantly looking to run beyond them. This unsettles CBs and moves them out of position, creating space for other players to run into.

 

[sparx99]

I don’t believe that would work under ETH system, even when I am in hopeful mood.

Rashford - tend to loss ball easily with his blind runs, can’t pass or play any link up in attack

Bruno - take far too many risky pass, not suit to play possession football, can’t get involve into any build up play, our attack move would mostly ended by him passing to nowhere

Fred - very poor in passing, ETH Tiki taka passing system requires midfielder to be good passer in the team, he is the opposite of it

Maguire - too slow, tends to drag things down, can’t play high line defence. He suits more to play for a team which sit back more and defend, and we will be the opposite of that under ETH

The only players I think could work well under ETH system:

- Sancho (system player, best for build up play)
- VDB (system player, best for build up play)
- Varane (quick and experience enough)
- Ronaldo (can adapt well/quick into any system, as proven over years, no one does it better than him under different teams/systems)

I think you underestimate how much of these tendencies were drilled into them by Ole and also Rangnick. Rangnick is quite direct and wants the ball forward quickly so they haven't been instructed to recycle the ball neccesarily.

Rashford - We know he's at his lowest ebb but a full pre-season and a commitment to playing ETH's style could see him bounce back. I imagine he'll be fighting for a spot with Sancho, Elanga and another wide forward though. ETH does allow the likes of Antony, Ziyech etc freedom to try things in wide postions.

Bruno - He is clearly a very direct player and I have concerns about his ability to cut out his own instincts. That being said he's an attacking player who will have seen how good ETH's teams have played. If he is convinced it will get him goals and assists and the team winning maybe he can adapt. He is strangely the one I'm most concerned with.

Fred - ETH's system doesn't necessarily require incisive passing. Fred can be useful by being high energy and passing and moving. A lot of short passes and then moving to create a new angle.

Maguire - Blind has played at the back. Yes, its the dutch league but pace isn't the only requirement to play a high line. It's also your teammates dropping behind you if you push up, it's reading the situation and picking your moments. I don't think Maguire will be first choice ahead of Lindelof or another CB though unless he really impresses ETH.

 

[romufc]

Look it’s not something I’ve said, and let’s make this clear - Bruno is the type of player who only focus on taking risk to deliver final ball, he does not do anything else normally playmaker does, such as involve in build up play, or control the flow of the game. Hence he is probably not the right type of AM to play in possession football system, which requires players to take part in a lot in build up play. He is rather an anti-build up type of impact player, which is opposite to the type of football ETH is asking for his midfielder to play.

We don't really know that though. He hasn't played in that system where he is required to keep the ball moving.

I would like to see a coach manage him and I have a feeling if he is getting the ball alot, he will improve his game and be part of the build up. ETH likes players to make runs of the ball, we have a perfect player to find.

 

[Eckers99]

This is exactly right. You do not need nearly as much change as so many people seem to think and it's difficult to totally change a first team and get coherent play for much of the next season.

It might be unpopular but Maguire is a better defender than he has shown this season, part of that is playing in freefalling team, part is having very little screening from the midfield and part is a drop in form, he can be a lot better, he may not ever be the best but he can be good enough for the moment.

In midfield I think you do need a bit of an over haul and with Pogba and Matic leaving I'd expect 2 new players here, but I would keep both Fred and McT. It's going be interesting to see if ETH can get anything out of VdB.

Rashford should stay he's bang out of form and like Maguire, he's struggling in a wrecked team and dressing room, but he has so much talent that we've seen again and again, you don't go from 20 goals a season to nothing for ever! You will also need a striker with Cavani leaving and Greenwood suspended.

AWB does need replacing I think, but again it is easier to coach attack rather than defence and he was massively rated when you bought him from Palace, it would be interesting to know how he would have fared under Pep or Klopp.

I think you could have a very workable unit with only 3-4 signings a striker, one or two midfielders and a full back.

Sensible post. Definitely agree that the right signings in the right areas would have a positive impact on some of this season's biggest under performers.

 

[Eriku]

What do they even mean by evolution?

Basically to gradually change the football club, and over time the small changes add up, and with a bit of luck we’ll shed our vestigial remains of being a football club and go full business.

Hth.

 

[sullydnl]

3-4 players a year is absolutely fine.

Going into year three of ETH's reign you would have added 9-12 new players, plus whatever young players make the step up in that time. Basically an entirely new team's worth. If our recruitment is right then that should obviously be more than enough to put us back on track. And if our recruitment still isn't right then we're fecked anyway.

This year you might front-load it and target to 4-5 players by eschewing bigger money signings but I certainly wouldn't expect more than that, nor do I think we actually need more than that.

Because we don't actually have to be all that good next year. Just better than the likes of Spurs, Arsenal, West Ham, Wolves, etc., who are all a bit shit themselves. If we manage that we get a CL place and that's step one done.

 

[Lentwood]

This is exactly right. You do not need nearly as much change as so many people seem to think and it's difficult to totally change a first team and get coherent play for much of the next season.

It might be unpopular but Maguire is a better defender than he has shown this season, part of that is playing in freefalling team, part is having very little screening from the midfield and part is a drop in form, he can be a lot better, he may not ever be the best but he can be good enough for the moment.

In midfield I think you do need a bit of an over haul and with Pogba and Matic leaving I'd expect 2 new players here, but I would keep both Fred and McT. It's going be interesting to see if ETH can get anything out of VdB.

Rashford should stay he's bang out of form and like Maguire, he's struggling in a wrecked team and dressing room, but he has so much talent that we've seen again and again, you don't go from 20 goals a season to nothing for ever! You will also need a striker with Cavani leaving and Greenwood suspended.

AWB does need replacing I think, but again it is easier to coach attack rather than defence and he was massively rated when you bought him from Palace, it would be interesting to know how he would have fared under Pep or Klopp.

I think you could have a very workable unit with only 3-4 signings a striker, one or two midfielders and a full back.

I agree with the majority of this. Posters seem to act as if you can't be successful with someone like Maguire in your team, forgetting he was excellent in England's run to the European Championship finals, World Cup semi-finals and United's run to the Europa League final and 2nd-place finish.

Like most players, Maguire just needs an effective structure and system to support him. There are not many players at United right now who I would say are actively 'not good enough' to be of use in any system. The majority could and probably will be used far more effectively by Ten Hag.

Then we just need to be patient and add/develop world-class players to supplement the core.

 

[Abhinav]

We need a revolution at this stage. If the board is not willing to back that, despite Rangnick's clear messages, then it will be difficult for Ten Haag to succeed.

Starting from the defense, we need at minimum a right back to replace AWB who has shown that he doesn't have the required quality. Additionally, if Bailly goes, we definitely need another center back as Varane seems to be always injured. So minimum 1 player, but actually we need 2. Leaving aside the question that Maguire or Lindelof are starting X1 material for a title challenging side.

In midfield, with Pogba and Matic leaving, we are not just low in quality but also quantity. Need at least 2 players, with one definitely a starting X1 player.

Attacking midfielder position is fine for now with Bruno and possibly DVB coming back. DVB has done nothing so far but we can only hope that he somehow rediscovers his spark by teaming up with ETH.

Wingers / forwards - Sancho should hopefully rediscover his form next season, he has shown glimpses of his quality. Elanga is a solid backup but not a starting player for next season. For me, Rashford needs to go especially as all his mates will be leaving and its likely he becomes more sullen. So need at least 1 winger of starting quality if Rashford leaves. Even if he stays, we can't really rely on Rashford so we need to bring 1 right winger with lots of potential.

For the striker, we need 1 player to come and rotate with Cristiano. I expect Martial to leave along with Cavani so that leaves us with a 37 year old Cristiano up top.

In summary, need at least 5 players but may need 6 and we need most of these players to have sufficient quality to come into the starting X1.

In addition to the above, we need to solve potential issues at CB, LB and GK in the next one year. If we take 3 years to do the above then we will be in the same situation again with always building from a position of weakness rather than strength.

 

[RedRonaldo]

We don't really know that though. He hasn't played in that system where he is required to keep the ball moving.

I would like to see a coach manage him and I have a feeling if he is getting the ball alot, he will improve his game and be part of the build up. ETH likes players to make runs of the ball, we have a perfect player to find.

I don’t think keeping possession and being part of build up play is his strength at all from what I’ve seen, it’s rather his main weakness, and can often be easily seen from player the way they play. But I don’t have any problem if ETH willing to take a year to try him out there. I am just not convinced.

 

[JuriM]

Thing is, the most important thing we need is TIME. To make the smart plays here and there to get the additions who want to play under ETH and believe in his philosophy and the ones who are team players and wanting to win big things with the club.

Time is the most valuable asset we must give the club, the manager and the new players to adjust.

 

[RedRonaldo]

I think you underestimate how much of these tendencies were drilled into them by Ole and also Rangnick. Rangnick is quite direct and wants the ball forward quickly so they haven't been instructed to recycle the ball neccesarily.

Rashford - We know he's at his lowest ebb but a full pre-season and a commitment to playing ETH's style could see him bounce back. I imagine he'll be fighting for a spot with Sancho, Elanga and another wide forward though. ETH does allow the likes of Antony, Ziyech etc freedom to try things in wide postions.

Bruno - He is clearly a very direct player and I have concerns about his ability to cut out his own instincts. That being said he's an attacking player who will have seen how good ETH's teams have played. If he is convinced it will get him goals and assists and the team winning maybe he can adapt. He is strangely the one I'm most concerned with.

Fred - ETH's system doesn't necessarily require incisive passing. Fred can be useful by being high energy and passing and moving. A lot of short passes and then moving to create a new angle.

Maguire - Blind has played at the back. Yes, its the dutch league but pace isn't the only requirement to play a high line. It's also your teammates dropping behind you if you push up, it's reading the situation and picking your moments. I don't think Maguire will be first choice ahead of Lindelof or another CB though unless he really impresses ETH.

I don’t mind giving these players another year to try to adapt ETH football to be honest, but I just don’t see how they could make the grade and shine under ETH system. It’s just that ETH football is a completely new system to them, to which it is literally playing to their weakness rather than their strength. And I don’t think they are young enough, nor do they seem to possess the kind of intelligence required for them to adapt their game into new system, having witnessing them playing week in week out over past few years.

 

[VinzentFTW]

Cant understand people wanting United to prioritize a CF. Ronaldo may not press enough but he is the least of our problems. Its vital we get a new quick CB and good offensive fullbacks for Ten Hags system to work. Same with the midfield. If we play Maguire next season we are truly fecked.

 

[Real Name]

Nobody should expect of letting go about 10 players and then getting 10 new ones cause its not realistic. Ten Haag must come and see on his own who he can work with and whom not. Even if he concludes for majority he doesnt want to keep him it cant be done in one go and he and the club must make a priorities list. Midfield being one. We should get about 3, 4 players for a start in a summer, maybe more if possible and then see where can that take us. If ETH is a good manager then some players who'll stay initially will improve and get back in form. For instance our fullbacks are bad but its the last thing we should change and look into cause midfield, attack and CB options are worse.

This isnt football manager where you can change an entire team in one go. I'm not even sure if that's possible in the game.