ESPN: Man United want evolution, not revolution under Erik ten Hag - sources

But he can be a stop gap until a player he wants arrives or develops?
Not saying it’s a good idea but we have a huge problem of being bullied out of the attacking third with our back to goal. Ten Hag likes a physical forward, why not bring him in while our eyes are on long term? That’s one of the reasons he seems to like Martial imo

He can do a football job yes, but there was nothing about it until after the Brighton game. We've been potentially needing a striker since Ronnie threw a strop two months ago.

Now you can put it down to unfortunate timing of course, but I personally believe someone shat themselves in management. Maybe Murtough, maybe ten Hag.
 
We couldn’t back Ten Hag any more though. Unless backing him means spending 100m on Antony then I just can’t see it. If anything we are backing him too much.
We are a few days away from bidding for Artautovic on his behalf for feck sake. Hanging on to his hope of De Jong as well.

The issue is club structure. Why is ten Hag leading the recruitment and not Murtough. Again a product of incompetence being led by the glazers and the board.
 
People are freaking out because we haven’t got the big names in or some 100m wonder kid.

It’s a rebuild. For all the chat about Brighton we still dont know what we’re going to look like under Ten Jag. It’s mental to think we can look at that match and think that’s it, that’s their level.
Let Ten Hag actually manage and coach, see how we develop and we can pick apart who we need and who we don’t as the season goes on. As we can see with De Jong, the CL money is basically spent on him or the majority would be back in Glazer pockets anyway when he turns us down. CL money isn’t that important to us. What’s important is Ten Hag being allowed to build the squad in his image over the next 2/3 seasons. That’s what a rebuild is.
Our fanbase is panicking because of one game under Eric and it’s not fair on him. We can’t be in this position year in, year out out,. Any sort of drawback can’t induce hysteria about how nothings working and it’s all fallen apart.
I think the bigger concern is the lack of progress on planned, sensible alternatives. I've been relatively positive this summer, and remained so (even if mildly troubled by the Dutch tunnel vision strategy) until the likes of Arnautovic and Rabiot started popping up.
That screams panic. Do you reckon those names were planned in advance? I just don't see it.
 
Sorry, but why exactly are we complaining now ? They said ETH would be having 120-150m to spend and I trust we will do that .

If we are complaining about FDJ, you need to calm down. We tried our best and it was worth it. SMS and Rabiot isn't a bad backup . Much better than cafe's icon Neves for the cost being quoted.
 
The issue is club structure. Why is ten Hag leading the recruitment and not Murtough. Again a product of incompetence being led by the glazers and the board.

We have been incompetent for 9 years plus before that Fergie losing out on targets due to that no value in market shite peddled from 09-13
 
Sorry, but why exactly are we complaining now ? They said ETH would be having 120-150m to spend and I trust we will do that .

If we are complaining about FDJ, you need to calm down. We tried our best and it was worth it. SMS and Rabiot isn't a bad backup . Much better than cafe's icon Neves for the cost being quoted.

No they're awful. Hardly the kind of players that will make us move forward. Rabiot ? FFS, just a player who's gonna be a deadwood in 2 years max, and we'll struggle to get rid of him.
 
SMS and Rabiot isn't a bad backup

They are. Because they dont actually fix the problem that our midfield has, which is getting the ball from the defence and getting it to the attackers. We need a progressive passer in midfield, and neither Rabiot nor SMS fill that profile.
 
This was kind of the warning sign for me early on that not much would change structurally and that EtH would be expected to work miracles with existing players who had been drilled into playing a purely counter attacking style of football for years :(
 
We needed revolution. I was hoping this was kind of pr bullshit and trying to rebuild bridges with some players we had no choice but to deal with for another season but its kind of clear it wasn't. Sacking our scouting department, sacking rangnick before the window opens and winging it was a dumbass idea as well. I dont care how bad the ruins of a recruitment department we had was, it was better than literally nothing.
 
Sorry, but why exactly are we complaining now ? They said ETH would be having 120-150m to spend and I trust we will do that .

If we are complaining about FDJ, you need to calm down. We tried our best and it was worth it. SMS and Rabiot isn't a bad backup . Much better than cafe's icon Neves for the cost being quoted.
The Arnautovic bid has fecked everyone's confidence and rationality. One of the most damaging PR moves, from a fan perspective, I've seen from a "top" club.
 
This was kind of the warning sign for me early on that not much would change structurally and that EtH would be expected to work miracles with existing players who had been drilled into playing a purely counter attacking style of football for years :(
Sigh. We really have not been playing "a purely counterattacking style" under any of our previous managers, however convenient that might be to explain recent and present shortcomings.
 
The Arnautovic bid has fecked everyone's confidence and rationality. One of the most damaging PR moves, from a fan perspective, I've seen from a "top" club.
It's better to accept mistake and correct it rather than pushing their agenda, right ?

Yes, it's a bad PR but let's move on.
 
They are. Because they dont actually fix the problem that our midfield has, which is getting the ball from the defence and getting it to the attackers. We need a progressive passer in midfield, and neither Rabiot nor SMS fill that profile.
Eriksen can already do that, it's not a big deal. But both those guys have good technique and can carry the ball, thats a huge upgrade on what we have.
 
They are. Because they dont actually fix the problem that our midfield has, which is getting the ball from the defence and getting it to the attackers. We need a progressive passer in midfield, and neither Rabiot nor SMS fill that profile.
Strange view that- Rabiot has excelled in that role . I don't watch Serie A or Ligue 1 but going by the experts who watch, he is exactly that player.
 
Sigh. We really have not been playing "a purely counterattacking style" under any of our previous managers, however convenient that might be to explain recent and present shortcomings.
I think we did. Mourinhos style has been destroying the opponents game plan and then trying to cash in on mistakes, Ole himself said he wants attack, as fast as possible. Direct and Vertical attacks. That we haven't seen that all time isn't down to the manager changing their opinions every so often but it is down to our opponents getting to learn how to play against us.
 
Sigh. We really have not been playing "a purely counterattacking style" under any of our previous managers, however convenient that might be to explain recent and present shortcomings.
Some of our players are better suited to counterattacking. Its a mismash of a squad where you cant put out 11 players suited to any one style.
 
I think we did. Mourinhos style has been destroying the opponents game plan and then trying to cash in on mistakes, Ole himself said he wants attack, as fast as possible. Direct and Vertical attacks. That we haven't seen that all time isn't down to the manager changing their opinions every so often but it is down to our opponents getting to learn how to play against us.

Neither of those amount to a purely counterattack style. In 20/21 we scored much more goals from established play than we did from counterattack, and we generally had more possession than the opponent. Even against the top teams it was usually close. And compared to our main competitors we fared relatively better against lower table (and generally low blick) teams.
 
Some of our players are better suited to counterattacking. Its a mismash of a squad where you cant put out 11 players suited to any one style.

There's a difference between counterattacking and having "a purely counterattack style". Everyone does the former, except maybe City. The latter is what you have if counterattacks is the only way in which you're able to score with any reliability. And this is demonstrably not the case with recent United. It exaggerates a team strength into a reductive defining characteristic.
 
There's a difference between counterattacking and having "a purely counterattack style". Everyone does the former, except maybe City. The latter is what you have if counterattacks is the only way in which you're able to score with any reliability. And this is demonstrably not the case with recent United. It exaggerates a team strength into a reductive defining characteristic.
I dont know, i think by and large this squad is much more suited to and built for a low block, counterattacking team. Our attempts to play more progressive are reliably awkward and dysfunctional.
I mean you park a couple of big cb's in front of de gea and he can camp on the goalline. Keep Maguire deep and he doesn't need to turn and chase players down. Wan Bisakka is wan bisakka.
Keep McTominay covering his own half and nothing else and he might start having an impact. Long, first time passes forward from Bruno for Martial, Rashford, Elanga etc to chase down.
I think we've largely proven to ourselves that none of these players have any meaningful value outside of that set up. You can debate one or two here and there but i find the idea you can 'evolve' these guys into a modern, high pressing, possesion oriented team laughable to be honest. Last season really should have provided all the evidence needed that that wasn't realistic.
 
Neither of those amount to a purely counterattack style. In 20/21 we scored much more goals from established play than we did from counterattack, and we generally had more possession than the opponent. Even against the top teams it was usually close. And compared to our main competitors we fared relatively better against lower table (and generally low blick) teams.
You are right I guess - depends on how you define a purely counter attacking style. I'd say, we didn't really have any intended style, it was just that Ole was a pragmatic coach, trying to achieve the most with basic tools. Defending is the easiest when you do it as a deep block where your players are close to each other. Attacking is the easiest when you have room to make use of. So When you combine that, you defend deep and attack fast against teams that failed to penetrate you deep defense. That is what counterattacking is - and this was what Ole did to some success. But as time went by, opponents noticed that their chances for points would be low when they tried to attack us. So many decided to defend deep themselves against us - it was a viable plan because a) we weren't particularly good defending against counters (not many teams are), b) we were especially tame when in possession and not able to create chances and c) smaller teams were happy to take a point from a draw. (you can see this development in a microcosm in the games against City, we won when Pep underestimated us or our capabilities in terms of counter attacks, but in 2021 he didn't give us room in all the games that really mattered and shut us down with it).

This development was what broke Ole as he wasn't able to create a style of play where we could make use of the possession other teams surrendered to us. And while I am aware of the infamous 2nd place in that season, many indicators where there that we weren't doing particularly good on the field (visible i.e. in xG, xGA) even in comparism to teams that ended slightly below us in the table.

To finish the circle: you are right, we haven't had a deeply engrained counter-attacking style of play. But we didn't have anything else at all. The players today aren't failing (until now) ETH because they are more suited to counter-attacking football. Those players are just somewhat limited technically and in terms of being organized on the pitch. And this is where ETH comes in hopefully.
 
I dont know, i think by and large this squad is much more suited to and built for a low block, counterattacking team. Our attempts to play more progressive are reliably awkward and dysfunctional.
I mean you park a couple of big cb's in front of de gea and he can camp on the goalline. Keep Maguire deep and he doesn't need to turn and chase players down. Wan Bisakka is wan bisakka.
Keep McTominay covering his own half and nothing else and he might start having an impact. Long, first time passes forward from Bruno for Martial, Rashford, Elanga etc to chase down.
I think we've largely proven to ourselves that none of these players have any meaningful value outside of that set up. You can debate one or two here and there but i find the idea you can 'evolve' these guys into a modern, high pressing, possesion oriented team laughable to be honest. Last season really should have provided all the evidence needed that that wasn't realistic.
Maybe it is, what I am pointing out is it hasn't been a low blocking team for quite a while. And we've had our best runs playing differently.
 
Strange view that- Rabiot has excelled in that role . I don't watch Serie A or Ligue 1 but going by the experts who watch, he is exactly that player.

Rabiot's progressive passing skills are garbage. As bad as McT.

Eriksen can already do that, it's not a big deal. But both those guys have good technique and can carry the ball, thats a huge upgrade on what we have.

No, he is not the player to take the ball from defence and pass it to the forwards. That's what a FDJ, Busquets or a Carrick does. Eriksen is a creative midfielder, a #8/10.
 
I can’t validate any of this, and assuming the reported figures are correct (and kudos for collating it) jesus christ this is so brutal to read. Still I’m assuming the 7 are CR DDG Varane Sancho Bruno and Rash, martial.

Maguire makes 9.8 so that’s practically 8 players.

The mismanagement of financial resources in recent times is ridiculous. We’re looking at a club that has been heading for mediocrity for a long time but everything was put under a rag.

Can't resist another fun tidbit here. We have TWO players who EACH make more than Brentford's entire player wage budget. They have a couple of players who haven't been added in yet, but that probably won't be enough to push them up to Ronaldo's wage, though it almost certainly puts them past de Gea.

Slight differential in value for money there.....
 
Sorry, but why exactly are we complaining now ? They said ETH would be having 120-150m to spend and I trust we will do that .

If we are complaining about FDJ, you need to calm down. We tried our best and it was worth it. SMS and Rabiot isn't a bad backup . Much better than cafe's icon Neves for the cost being quoted.
If we can get Savic I would be happy with him for De Jong replacement but I still don't know about Rabiot. He could be trouble. We would still need a CF and we should look outside europe now.
 
No they're awful. Hardly the kind of players that will make us move forward. Rabiot ? FFS, just a player who's gonna be a deadwood in 2 years max, and we'll struggle to get rid of him.
Stop gap solutions are fine as long as we realise they’re just for that purpose and don’t offer them a contract renewal.
 
We couldn’t back Ten Hag any more though. Unless backing him means spending 100m on Antony then I just can’t see it. If anything we are backing him too much.
We are a few days away from bidding for Artautovic on his behalf for feck sake. Hanging on to his hope of De Jong as well.

The issue of panic Arnautovic bid should fall on Murtough, not on ETH. United know that Ronaldo is creating a fuss from the end of last season. It was not sorted before ETH joined the club. Sorting out Ronaldo/Buying a striker should have been the priority. With no good option, Arnautovic was tried to save the season(before it started). Still a bad option though.

Hanging on to De Jong is still not a bad idea. If United had been persistent and went the extra mile when they found the right talent (Like when Fabregas moved the season after the transfer saga) instead of settling for a mediocre replacement, United would be in better position. The issue is not hanging onto De Jong, It is not getting a defensively strong CM in addition to DeJong to replace McFred.

The talk about evolution/revolution will be forgotten like Ralf if the team performs poorly in next 2 months. Not replacing Greenwood(RW) and at least one CM in winter transfer window made Ralf a sitting duck. ETH would be the same like Ralf if we don't sign a good CM, RW/RB and ST(unless Ronaldo comes back to his best).

Not sure why anyone is surprised now, it was known from the time of OGS sacking that by not getting ETH right away, United management(Murtough & co) has failed the next winter and summer transfer windows.
 
The issue is club structure. Why is ten Hag leading the recruitment and not Murtough. Again a product of incompetence being led by the glazers and the board.
Murtough doesn't have the necessary transfers lined up for the positions which United needed and suggested by Ralf. ETH is late to the scene as the better players are scooped by clubs which were working on it from last season while United didn't and started from scratch 2 months back.
ETH is trying to save his position as he didn't want to end up like Ralf.
 
The issue of panic Arnautovic bid should fall on Murtough, not on ETH. United know that Ronaldo is creating a fuss from the end of last season. It was not sorted before ETH joined the club. Sorting out Ronaldo/Buying a striker should have been the priority. With no good option, Arnautovic was tried to save the season(before it started). Still a bad option though.

Hanging on to De Jong is still not a bad idea. If United had been persistent and went the extra mile when they found the right talent (Like when Fabregas moved the season after the transfer saga) instead of settling for a mediocre replacement, United would be in better position. The issue is not hanging onto De Jong, It is not getting a defensively strong CM in addition to DeJong to replace McFred.

The talk about evolution/revolution will be forgotten like Ralf if the team performs poorly in next 2 months. Not replacing Greenwood(RW) and at least one CM in winter transfer window made Ralf a sitting duck. ETH would be the same like Ralf if we don't sign a good CM, RW/RB and ST(unless Ronaldo comes back to his best).

Not sure why anyone is surprised now, it was known from the time of OGS sacking that by not getting ETH right away, United management(Murtough & co) has failed the next winter and summer transfer windows.
EtH is not available to takeover mid season. The amount of time Murtough and co had to do their own assessment of this squad to prepare for this window after writing off last season is astonishingly generous. That is if they disregard Rangnick's opinion. It now looks like they just sat idle the whole time, and now EtH has to do everything, which of course is too late.

It begs the question that whether we really have DoF, technical director; or just some job title for some yes man leeches.
 
Stop gap solutions are fine as long as we realise they’re just for that purpose and don’t offer them a contract renewal.

The current team needs long term player who are clear improvement on what we have, not a stop gap who will turn deadwood in 2 years.
 
The current team needs long term player who are clear improvement on what we have, not a stop gap who will turn deadwood in 2 years.
Sure, meanwhile the club continues to play players who’ve been useless for nearly 2 years now because we’re too good for stop gap solutions.
 
Sure, meanwhile the club continues to play players who’ve been useless for nearly 2 years now because we’re too good for stop gap solutions.

Sure, which is also what's going to happen to Rabiot eventually, so we're not solving the problem, we're making it worse.
 
Sure, which is also what's going to happen to Rabiot eventually, so we're not solving the problem, we're making it worse.
Getting in a better player to improve the squad is making the problem worse now :lol:

Ffs, this isn’t a team that won a treble last season, this is a team that’s has Scott and Rashford starting even when they’re contributing feck all.

We just don’t have to be idiots and give Rabiot a 5 year deal or extend him after his current deal is up unless he performed so well that it warrants it.
 
Getting in a better player to improve the squad is making the problem worse now :lol:

Ffs, this isn’t a team that won a treble last season, this is a team that’s has Scott and Rashford starting even when they’re contributing feck all.

We just don’t have to be idiots and give Rabiot a 5 year deal or extend him after his current deal is up unless he performed so well that it warrants it.

Getting an average player who isn't a long term improvement and will end up being deadwood in 2 years isn't solving any problem. Just adding another player in the long list of players that we'll need to get rid of few years later, and the midfield issue will still need to be solved.

It's exactly the reason we're playing with Scott and Rashford that we should focus on signing players that will replace them for good and provide us with long term value, not adding another deadwood. We have plenty of them already. We need to improve the team and build for something. This isn't building shit.
 
I’m not against the slow approach, but the club (above the manager) needs to control the narrative better with the media and fans.

We all know Klopp and Pep didn’t just turn up and everything went perfectly.

Everyone needs to hold off making any judgments until at least the WC break.