As good as he is, I think he's overrated, as silly as that may sound. Right now as an after-effect of the Messi-Cristiano Ronaldo-era everybody looks at goals but at some point people will realize that there's more to a player than "just" putting the ball into the back of the net. But he will be held to a higher standard than he is now a few years down the road. He might very well become the most prolific goal scorer of his era but on the other hand he's limited in terms of technique, passing, agility and so forth.
Erling Haaland
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I agree Haaland is someone really special, perhaps I rated him as highly and you do too. And I think I could understand the hype you feeling here, but I’ve done it quite a number of times over other best young talents I’ve watched over the years, and I guess I’ve learned from experience it’s best not to hype them up so early, no matter how good they are. For example, even I am obsessed with Ronaldo from his very first game with us, but I never really consider him comparable to Pele or Maradona, not until when he reach near 30 and start to win his 5th CL/Ballon D‘or and scoring 700-800 goals. I prefer to wait abit longer to see if the player could achieved something big before making such comparison, instead of judging them out of their hype and based on their early promise.
I don't think anyone in here compares his technique, passing or agility with the best in that field. He is pretty far from perfect in those areas, but his physique, goalscoring abilities and instincts in the final 3rd is second to none. That why he gets the hype and that's why every big club wants him.
And rightly so! It's just the "greatest of all times" notion that I don't agree with. I don't think he has what it takes to get into this tier. For me, he would need to be elite in a few other disciplines as well for that to happen.
If he ends up averaging like 1.5 goals per game he won't need anything else honestly
As a wise man once said, goals win you games.
Always a good time when someone starts with 'it's a fact...' and then follow that up with pure speculation. Veratti was given an offer by Barcelona, he instead chose to sign an extension in Paris. No one put a gun to his head, he happens to really, really love living in Paris. I'd say out of all the PSG players, him and Marquinhos are the least likely to leave because of how much they love living there.
Now, here are the actual facts. Mbappe wanted to leave, had zero issues staying and has always maintained it, his spin on it is that he wanted PSG to get a transfer fee (this isn't my opinion I'm masquerading as facts like you, but it's straight from his mouth). He now will have the opportunity to walk away for free next summer and he can sign a contract with his new team as early as next month. Whether PSG choose to sell him or not is completely irrelevant, if a player doesn't renew, he won't play more than his contract stipulates. It's nothing nefarious like you're trying to make it out to be. And PSG are not keeping him stuck to the bench to 'punish' him like some thought (or hoped) they would. He's playing and is currently, and by far, PSG's best player this season.
Who is really saying he has 'GOAT' potential though? He's 21 and has just become a star player recently. Let's see how he handles the big move, the first dip of form, is his health going to hold up, the international career that probably will put him at a disadvantage, the growing popularity and all of its trappings, etc. There's so many factors where he could fall well short of the expectations his current performances warrant.
But this whole GOAT debate is so silly, first of all I don't think he'll ever enter that conversation, but even if he did it's such a pointless exercise. No one will ever agree on it, you can't really compare between eras for so many reasons, and it's just a lot of typing about something that will never have a conclusion.
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Denyle isn't just a river in Egypt mate, at least we can admit our owners are poison to the game, anyone who saw Verratti's interview after his agent tried to get him a move to Barca said it looked like a hostage video, all that was missing was a newspaper with the days date, and the strops thrown publicly when Real Madrid made a huge offer for a player in the last year of his contract was totally unprofessional and stank of people with so much money they feel they aren't required.to show respect.
Haaland is, without a doubt, a superb goal scorer, but as Riola manages him, we should keep clear. We don't need the circus. United fans are obsessed with buying new players. We have players who can reach the same level as Haaland under the right coaching.
For the first time in a long time, we have a manager who has a clearly defined system that will improve these players once they buy into it. If we start winning, the players will buy in Ragnich methods.
United should be focused on defining a clear playing style, move on the deadwood and focus on buying one or two players in critical areas like midfield and not up top as we have enough forward players.
For the first time in a long time, we have a manager who has a clearly defined system that will improve these players once they buy into it. If we start winning, the players will buy in Ragnich methods.
United should be focused on defining a clear playing style, move on the deadwood and focus on buying one or two players in critical areas like midfield and not up top as we have enough forward players.
Well his current average is 0.78 goals per game, so he probably won’t end up averaging 1.5 per game, unless he scores like 1050 goals over his next 600 games, or something. Which is highly unlikely. Basically given that he usually plays around 45 games a year, he will need to score around 75 every year for next 14 years.
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Can't see how that is even possible, but it wouldn't be enough to convince @Zehner
PS! I bet Haaland regrets fecking up his career stats by making all those apps from the bench when he was 15 and 16 now, huh.
It's all hypothetical because a) Haalad already does more than scoring goals and b) he won't achieve 1.5 goals per game. But do you really think a hypothetical player who averages 1.5 goals per game but does literally nothing else could be considered the best of all times? Do you think any top coach would play such a striker? There's more to football than scoring. Actually more than 99% of a football match consist of other thins. Surely you'd expect more from the best in history than popping up once or twice over the course of 90 minutes.
Yes, because ultimately the aim is to score more than your opponent. So if a magical player existed that could score 1.5 goals a game, of course they would play them
So you would play with 10 man if you were offered a head start of 1.5 goals a game over a season?
I doubt many top coaches would do that. Especially not if there's a natural distribution of those goals (more goals against weak teams, less goals against strong teams).That scenario is stupid and you know it. A player who has no skill except scoring goals would be marked tightly by defenders, and therefore be a big factor even if he does nothing else. You can't compare that to just having one player less.So you would play with 10 man if you were offered a head start of 1.5 goals a game over a season?
So you would play with 10 man if you were offered a head start of 1.5 goals a game over a season?
Playing with 10 man, that's not what you asked.
If you had a striker that's going to guarantee you 70+ goals a season yes you play them
Yet all the biggest teams and brightest coaches are drooling over him. Fans would really make awful managers.
The man is a goal scoring machine, presses well, decent pace and his technique isn't exactly Heskey-like. I think he'll do just fine.
I'll admit, it was stupid. But I still think the line of thinking "he scores 1.5 goals a game, it doesn't matter what he does apart from that" is far too simple. The way Haaland is playing, being dependent on service and not initiating much himself, there would be lots and lots of team efforts in those 1.5 goals. I also think this obsession with goal stats isn't expedient. By definition a "scoring a goal" simply means you had the last contact before the ball passed the goal line. But in a sequence of play that leads to a goal, the last touch wasn't necessarily the best/most important/most difficult/whatever-you-want-to-call-it one. So looking at that statistic in isolation an with a conviction as it is done currently by many fans is not only misleading but also the wrong incentivation.
I mean, we all know the saying "xyz scored the goal but 50% of it belongs to abc". There's not enough valuing of this stuff these days, IMO. And the hype surrounding Haaland is in some ways a testament to that superficial stat obsession. I think players like Vinicius Junior, Jadon Sancho, Florian Wirtz, Pedri, Ansu Fati etc. generally have a much higher ceiling. Same way Cristiano and Messi eventually far outperformed players who had better goal statistics than them at a younger age.
Yet all the biggest teams and brightest coaches are drooling over him. Fans would really make awful managers.
The man is a goal scoring machine, presses well, decent pace and his technique isn't exactly Heskey-like. I think he'll do just fine.
Of course he's world class. But he's no "greatest of all time" material.
The fetishising over the Premier League compared to the other leagues is really something. People are legitimately thinking that the PL is some sort of video game final boss where all other competitions have been weak leading up to the big one.
Outside of Manchester United, Manchester Shitty, Chelsea and Liverpool, no English team has had any notable success in Europe, because they keep getting beat by teams from smaller leagues that play better football than they do.
The quality outside the top 4 compared to average teams in the Bundlesliga, La Liga and Serie A is really not THAT big.
Haaland receiving criticism for not scoring at a similiar pace on the Norwegian national team vs Dortmund is plain weird. Norways national team is average on a good day. How do you even argue that a lot of his goals have come from lesser leagues so "lets wait and see". Come on.
Champions League: 19 appearances - 23 goals + 3 assists
Bundeliga: 51 appearances - 51 goals. + 15 assists
Its not stat padding either, he's scored against nearly every team he's played against except for City.
Is the Champions League a weaker competition than the Premier League or something?
Outside of Manchester United, Manchester Shitty, Chelsea and Liverpool, no English team has had any notable success in Europe, because they keep getting beat by teams from smaller leagues that play better football than they do.
The quality outside the top 4 compared to average teams in the Bundlesliga, La Liga and Serie A is really not THAT big.
Haaland receiving criticism for not scoring at a similiar pace on the Norwegian national team vs Dortmund is plain weird. Norways national team is average on a good day. How do you even argue that a lot of his goals have come from lesser leagues so "lets wait and see". Come on.
Champions League: 19 appearances - 23 goals + 3 assists
Bundeliga: 51 appearances - 51 goals. + 15 assists
Its not stat padding either, he's scored against nearly every team he's played against except for City.
Is the Champions League a weaker competition than the Premier League or something?
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I'm inclined to think that most of the CAF thinks so. A lot of discussion threads are adamant about the indisputable, almost cosmic superiority of the Premiership. Any players performances outside of the Premiership are diminished in their eyes.
Well this got a little too hypothetical for me, because we, as you said, know he already does a lot more than just score goals and pop up once or twice a game.
Like pressing:
2 x what our current #9 does
12,3 pressings/90 and 3,4 successful pressings/90 this season
vs.
Ronaldo's 6 pressings/90 and 1,23 successful pressings/90 for us
...or assisting:
0,29 assists/90 for Dortmund since he arrived there
vs.
0,13 assists/90 for Ronaldo the last 2,5 seasons and for us this season)
Then of course it's the goals:
This season:
Haaland in all comps for Dortmund: 17 goals in 1022 minutes - 1,5 goals/90 !
(....and for Norway this season: 5 goals in 268 minutes - 1,68 goals/90)
Ronaldo (Who appears in a lot of GOAT discussions) for us and apparently has been carrying us on his own this season: 12 goals in 1368 minutes - 0,79 goals/90
If Haaland keeps delivering numbers like this in a top 3/4 or better league + CL through out his career, he will of course be up there with the best in history. Not saying he will, but it is not impossible. It's impossible to know what the future brings, and all I've done is comparing his stats from the last couple of years (which is mindblowingly good for a 19-21 year old) with some of the greats, and found that so far his clubrecord in Bundesliga and CL is better than anything we have seen from someone his age since what Pele did in the stateleagues in Brazil in the late 50s/early 60s. I don't understand how you so bastantly can claim he won't. I would say there's a bigger chance he won't than he will, but nothing is 100%.
This one made me smile. Sure we have a good squad, but who can reach this level? I like Greenwood a lot myself, and I think he's a great talent, but do you get that "he'll beat all goalscoring records"-vibe from him? ...or are you refering to someone else.
Are there coaches out there that can make Greenwood tripple or quadrupple his current goal output for us when he plays up front (10 goals in 2201 minutes as a #9 for us in all comps - 0,41 goals/90. That stat includes goals against Tranmere, Rochdale, Astana, LASK....)?
...and we don't even know who will be our manager 8 months from now.
And by the way: I would love to have that circus in town for 3-10 years. Circuses are fun!
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Boys a machine plain and simple, if we have a 1% chance of signing the lad we do.
Hey guys, first post and I am gonna jump directly into the Haaland train.
There are several reasons, why we shouldn't buy him. Of course, all of them were already mentioned, but I want to add a rather specific
one, which I think wasn't focused on enough.
First: As depressing as it sounds, our chances to bypass Real, City, PSG or Bayern in this transfer are rather small to non existent.
Especially the first three are able to fulfill Raiolas greedy demands, and I think we shouldn't kneefall in front of him, even if that means, that we will miss out on the most exciting striker prospect on the market.
Second: As promising as this kid looks, and I watched him quite often, as I am from Germany and I like Borussia Dortmund quite well, I think that there are several questionmarks around him. I know it's early days, but he does seem prone for minor injuries, which is no surpirse at all given his playstyle. The intensity of schedule in the Prem and on the pitch are certainly higher than in the Bundesliga, and it is possible, that he will remain injury prone. His attitude is also a thing to discuss. While big self esteem may help to become one of the best strikers in the world, it rather often backfires. He acts like he is already the best, which is concerning given his age. Borussia Dormtunds playstyle, of course with minor exceptions, make player look better, than they actually are. Which is where we come to what I think it's the most overlooked argument against Haaland. The amounts of space he has when he plays for Borussia. There lies undoubtly his biggest strength: a dynamic, strong and fast steamroll, given he has the space to roll. Under Ragnick as a coach and later on as a directive, we'll prefer to play possession based footy. While Haaland is still dangeorus in tighter spaces, in this segment of the game, he looks way less a worldbeater, than in his overall performance. And this segment of the game will become the most important one, especially if he moves to City, Bayern, Madrid or us. So there is no guarentee, that he will continue banging goals for fun and therefore not worth the financial burden he brings with him.
So my conlusion is, that we should rather go for a striker who is physically strong, but also technically gifted and has a great hold up play. In the long run, this will suit our playstyle way more, than an explosive and dynamic striker. With the money we would spend on Haaland, we just could fill the gaps in our squad, which is utterly nedeed.
There are several reasons, why we shouldn't buy him. Of course, all of them were already mentioned, but I want to add a rather specific
one, which I think wasn't focused on enough.
First: As depressing as it sounds, our chances to bypass Real, City, PSG or Bayern in this transfer are rather small to non existent.
Especially the first three are able to fulfill Raiolas greedy demands, and I think we shouldn't kneefall in front of him, even if that means, that we will miss out on the most exciting striker prospect on the market.
Second: As promising as this kid looks, and I watched him quite often, as I am from Germany and I like Borussia Dortmund quite well, I think that there are several questionmarks around him. I know it's early days, but he does seem prone for minor injuries, which is no surpirse at all given his playstyle. The intensity of schedule in the Prem and on the pitch are certainly higher than in the Bundesliga, and it is possible, that he will remain injury prone. His attitude is also a thing to discuss. While big self esteem may help to become one of the best strikers in the world, it rather often backfires. He acts like he is already the best, which is concerning given his age. Borussia Dormtunds playstyle, of course with minor exceptions, make player look better, than they actually are. Which is where we come to what I think it's the most overlooked argument against Haaland. The amounts of space he has when he plays for Borussia. There lies undoubtly his biggest strength: a dynamic, strong and fast steamroll, given he has the space to roll. Under Ragnick as a coach and later on as a directive, we'll prefer to play possession based footy. While Haaland is still dangeorus in tighter spaces, in this segment of the game, he looks way less a worldbeater, than in his overall performance. And this segment of the game will become the most important one, especially if he moves to City, Bayern, Madrid or us. So there is no guarentee, that he will continue banging goals for fun and therefore not worth the financial burden he brings with him.
So my conlusion is, that we should rather go for a striker who is physically strong, but also technically gifted and has a great hold up play. In the long run, this will suit our playstyle way more, than an explosive and dynamic striker. With the money we would spend on Haaland, we just could fill the gaps in our squad, which is utterly nedeed.
Exactly.
It never ceases to amaze me how little some fans value the importance of being able to score goals consistently.
Ahhh crap! He’s off to City ain’t he.
Just seen Raiola’s comments.
Hopefully Raiola is trying to bait Utd into getting us to come out and splash the money on contract offer!
Just seen Raiola’s comments.
Hopefully Raiola is trying to bait Utd into getting us to come out and splash the money on contract offer!
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This fat virus thinks football started in 2012?
Ahhh crap! He’s off to City ain’t he.
Just seen Raiola’s comments.
Hopefully Raiola is trying to bait Utd into getting us to come out and splash the money on contract offer!
Defo sounds like he's baiting United to start a bidding war.
If he wants to move there then so be it, makes our job easier.
We have a left footed striker in Greenwood and arguably Diallo who is a RF, we can focus on a right footed one to balance out Cavani and Ronaldo one day leaving us.
I got to say though, the fact that Raiola purposefully tried to put us down singlehandedly by himself - makes me think we are closer to this than maybe be seen on paper.
We have a left footed striker in Greenwood and arguably Diallo who is a RF, we can focus on a right footed one to balance out Cavani and Ronaldo one day leaving us.
I got to say though, the fact that Raiola purposefully tried to put us down singlehandedly by himself - makes me think we are closer to this than maybe be seen on paper.
He said significantly more in recent years, I think
I never expected him to come to United in the position we're in. Be brilliant to see him in the Premier League though
Can't wait till Raiola fecks off forever
He's a prick but in fairness other versions of the quote add "in recent years". In which case it's fair enough really. If we do feck all for a decade while City win multiple league titles, we can't really complain if players or their agents see them as a better option.
Haha! So much can happen between now and the summer, guys. Everyone who goes for him next summer will be invited to the table. That comment from Raiola means shit.
I have no doubt that Ronaldo and Messi are as we speak working on a plot that would see Haaland play under Arteta to stop him from coming close to their goal scoring records.
Definitely told him that we aren't interested. Pogba is also not signing then.
As much as I love the player, the drama isn't worth it. Just stay away !
Oh yeah , 5 is greater than 13.
Why name drop us at all. You named your favourite clubs for him rubs.
He's 100% baiting United, they're even specifically mentioned in his quotes. The clubs he listed are a bit dubious, Barcelona are a mess, I don't know if Madrid could pull off Mbappe and Haaland with the other areas of their squad that need addressing, Bayern probably wont pay the fee and wages expected.Ahhh crap! He’s off to City ain’t he.
Just seen Raiola’s comments.
Hopefully Raiola is trying to bait Utd into getting us to come out and splash the money on contract offer!
City makes sense but I also wonder does he fit in with Pep's style?
Even if he would never choose to go to united, Raiola will want us in the bidding because we will pay the fee and offer the top wages so other clubs will have to match it.
Good, keep that fat feck away from us.
Will it?!I never expected him to come to United in the position we're in. Be brilliant to see him in the Premier League though
Since we signed Ronaldo it was never going to happen to us anyway, too many forwards.
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