Erik ten Hag vs Sancho | Sancho back in full training

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crossy1686 said:
Well yeah, but rich people will always surround themselves with people who enable their behaviour. It's like Michael Jackson's doctor, he was never not going to give him the sleeping pills because he'd just replace him if he didn't.

I think Chelsea is our only realistic option at moving him on at this point, he won't go to Saudi yet, or maybe a huge offer will make him consider it.
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It’s this odd notion that he’s good enough for any club to make a huge offer that puzzles me.
He’s not a superstar, he’s not a star, he’s not even got a twinkle - he set off in that direction like a rocket but then quickly fell back down to earth like a spent firework.

But there seems to be a perception amongst some supporters that he’s a fantastic player worth £350k a week when the fact is that he was showing good potential in Germany and Utd paid well over the odds for him then gave him a salary so ridiculously massive that he couldn’t move on unless his development trajectory remained steep.
He then flatlined before tipping into a nosedive and it was pretty damn predictable because he’s shown mental application issues when with city and the same weak mentality in Germany (sometimes couldn’t be arsed about training there either).

It’s a crying shame to see it, I used to think / hope he could develop into something special but all I see now is a meh player on close to a £million a month and totally un-sellable because his attitude sets his worth at about minimum wage.

Why would a club want him, a player who’s hardly played because of his ‘issues’, in their ranks when there are truly great, mentally strong, players out there who put a good shift in every day and do it for a small fraction of his whacky wages?
 
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BobFromParva said:
It’s this odd notion that he’s good enough for any club to make a huge offer that puzzles me.
He’s not a superstar, he’s not a star, he’s not even got a twinkle - he set off in that direction like a rocket but then quickly fell back down to earth like a spent firework.

But there seems to be a perception amongst some supporters that he’s a fantastic player worth £350k a week when the fact is that he was showing good potential in Germany and Utd paid well over the odds for him then gave him a salary so ridiculously massive that he couldn’t move on unless his development trajectory remained steep.
He then flatlined before tipping into a nosedive and it was pretty damn predictable because he’s shown mental application issues when with city and the same weak mentality in Germany (sometimes couldn’t be arsed about training there either).

It’s a crying shame to see it, I used to think / hope he could develop into something special but all I see now is a meh player on close to a £million a month and totally un-sellable because his attitudesets his worth at about minimum wage.

Why would a club want him, a player who’s hardly played because of his ‘issues’, in their ranks when there are truly great, mentally strong, players out there who put a good shift in every day and do it for a small fraction of his whacky wages?
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To be fair to him it wasn't just potential what he showed in Germany, he had four truly strong seasons here. I agree with everything else in your post though.
 
DickDastardly said:
Doesn't have to be that dramatic.

Erik seems like a person who is firm but forgiving, doesn't strike me as a grudge holder.

There is still a long way to go in Jadon's career, and this is one of those defining moments that can make you a better person and a better footballer.

There's the easy way out for him, he goes to Arabia and collects the paycheck that secures him and his grandchildren should he ever have them.

There's also a harder, but way more satisfying path he should take, get his head down and start working his ass for the club and manager, show him he's up for the task set out for him.

Let's hope it's the latter.
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He's basically called his manager a liar in public. He obviously has to be subject to some pretty strong internal disciplinary measures, demotion to the reserves, or a loan or be sold if the manager is to ever have a chance of managing the club properly ever again. This sort of thing destroys discipline if its not treated that way; entire chain of command is upset.
 
If Sancho thought that statement would bring people onto his side he has misjudged horrifically. Now he has lost the respect people had for his talent and absolutely everyone is piling into him for lack of commitment and being entitled. Don’t think he has the self awareness or fight to redeem himself here either.
 
Whoever people think is to blame, Sancho is history.

My point is, is it ok from a manager to call players out in public? For me the greatest manager of all time, would have handle it completely different....
 
The positive in this is people are finally coming to terms with Sancho not being anywhere near good enough or having the tools to be a worthwhile player for us. I have been banging on that for the last two years, often meeting with ridicule for suggesting that he should be loaned, even sold, because he was apparently always on the verge of becoming world class for us - only if we sign the right full back, midfielder and forward to make the best of his immense talent.

I am going to stand by my initial take, he should have been sent on loan in January after his arrival, or latest the following Summer. He was a passenger for his first half a season, either due to lack of confidence or lack of effort, either way he should have been sent to another PL team to a) adjust to the league in lower pressure environment, b) realize that his place at United is not guaranteed just because he cost a lot and earned a lot. People got fooled by decent pre-season, mainly because his lack of effort did not stick out that much when everyone else was playing with lower intensity, and also because he thrives in those meaningless moments with hardly any pressure. Last season was pretty much as bad as his first one, bar occasional moments, yet still got people talking about improvement and again how he was basically bordering on becoming a top winger in PL.

The season started and same old is happening again, it's not fixable, the best we can hope for is that we can send him on loan to a foreign club (a PL loan would be a disaster once more) and sell him after he performs there for 3-4 months, or that Chelsea are foolish enough to try and reboot his career.
 
Litch said:
Whoever people think is to blame, Sancho is history.

My point is, is it ok from a manager to call players out in public? For me the greatest manager of all time, would have handle it completely different....
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What was he supposed to say? He was asked if Sancho was injured as he wasn't in the squad. He could have said Sancho is injured. An actual lie, to which Sancho could have replied as well, saying he wasn't actually injured and that there was something else going on.

He could have said "no comment", which would have released even more speculations, to which Sancho could have also replied to with some cryptic shit.

He couls have added Sancho to the squad despite his form in training. We would have been clueless, but it would have been poor by ETH to reward shit form.

It would have been differenr with Fergie, yes. The issue would have probably been solved in any of the transfer windows before, or maybe we wouldn't have even bought him in the first place. With Erik now, Sancho got all the patience he deserved. Nowhere to hide now. Horrible way to repay for the trust and patience he received from the club.
 
I support the manager in this situation. Based on everything that I've heard about Sancho from multiple sources over time and seeing his lazy performances on the pitch, I don't see how ETH is not correct here.

I think Sancho is one of those guys that has the technical talent for playing football at a high level, but doesn't really care about it. I'm not sure he even likes, enjoys playing football, really. Textbook example of an undisciplined, spoiled slacker. He would much rather spend time in a hedonistic fashion - partying, eating junk food, drinking, playing video games, chasing women...Chose football as a profession because of the lavish lifestyle and he knew he was talented and that he would make money.

Not sure what will be the solution. I don't really know what his plans are. Could easily see him going to Saudi Arabia for a fat paycheck, then buying a house in Florida/Bahamas/Spain/California/French Riviera, invest some of money he's earned in various businesses(hedge funds, stock, property, restaurants...) and live lavishly for the rest of his life in the Charlie Sheen style.
 
Revan said:
To be fair, I think that Pellestri has more reasons to complain than Sancho. He definitely hasn't got a fair chance despite looking decent in the few minutes he has got.
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Totally agree, can't understand why he hasn't had at least one start!
 
philippexyz said:
I support the manager in this situation. Based on everything that I've heard about Sancho from multiple sources over time and seeing his lazy performances on the pitch, I don't see how ETH is not correct here.

I think Sancho is one of those guys that has the technical talent for playing football at a high level, but doesn't really care about it. I'm not sure he even likes, enjoys playing football, really. Textbook example of an undisciplined, spoiled slacker. He would much rather spend time in a hedonistic fashion - partying, eating junk food, drinking, playing video games, chasing women...Chose football as a profession because of the lavish lifestyle and he knew he was talented and that he would make money.

Not sure what will be the solution. I don't really know what his plans are. Could easily see him going to Saudi Arabia for a fat paycheck, then buying a house in Florida/Bahamas/Spain/California/French Riviera, invest some of money he's earned in various businesses(hedge funds, stock, property, restaurants...) and live lavishly for the rest of his life in the Charlie Sheen style.
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I do not get the sense that he is smart enough for that without someone else guiding him. On his own, he is more likely to blow his entire fortune away in the next ten years.
 
Litch said:
Whoever people think is to blame, Sancho is history.

My point is, is it ok from a manager to call players out in public? For me the greatest manager of all time, would have handle it completely different....
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The greatest manager of all time would prob be up on an assault charge now if he managed Sancho. Sanchos form has been terrible. Now it looks like he’s terrible attitude etc etc. Time for both sides to move on. The January window is his best bet to move on. ETH has shown excellent man management skills in his time here in very difficult circumstances. His purchase of Mount and Antony are questionable though for sure. Sir Alex got a few signings wrong to remember. One of his big ones initially was a disaster if anyone can remember Jim L.
 
Litch said:
Whoever people think is to blame, Sancho is history.

My point is, is it ok from a manager to call players out in public? For me the greatest manager of all time, would have handle it completely different....
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I think he is done too, maybe they can get the Saudis to take him. I dont think ETH threw him under the bus Jose style, it felt more like a last resort to get Sancho to buck himself up having tried everything else, for example how many players in his position get a sabbatical to Holland. Sancho either rises to the challenge and toes the line like Rashford did last year or sulks. I think we all know which option he choose.
 
Litch said:
Whoever people think is to blame, Sancho is history.

My point is, is it ok from a manager to call players out in public? For me the greatest manager of all time, would have handle it completely different....
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He sent him to winter camp last year to get him out of the spotlight. This might be the last resort.

On SAF, I think he'd have sold him by now and gave another guy a chance. Although difficult to sell an underperforming player on 350k a week.
 
Jakoby said:
I don't know what's there to gain for either side to make such a spat public.

ETH didn't handle the question the best in my humble opinion. He could have just said this is the team that was picked based on what I thought gives us the best chance of winning the match, might look different next week. Didn't have to throw Sancho under the bus like that. And JS should stay out of Twitter/X with that stuff. He's from a different generation than an old fart like me so maybe that's how things are just done these days, but still. Confront the coach before the training and ask what that was about but don't go shouting online.

Overall a very poorly handled situation by both sides.
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TBH I think he'd just had enough. There is only so many times you can just deflect the questions. He's done a lot for Sancho - given him a lot of time. If Sancho is out of form that's one thing and everyone has that now and again. However, if he can't be bothered to put the effort in in training, that's something altogether different.
 
Paul778 said:
TBH I think he'd just had enough. There is only so many times you can just deflect the questions. He's done a lot for Sancho - given him a lot of time. If Sancho is out of form that's one thing and everyone has that now and again. However, if he can't be bothered to put the effort in in training, that's something altogether different.
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Reminds me a bit like Jose with Shaw.

The questioon for any United fan defending Sancho would be, what has he done at our club to dererve the benefit of the doubt ?

I would also ask why would ETH accuse a player of something that was untrue ? How do you think the rest of the dressingroom would act if they thought their manager will make up sh*t about them to supposedly "deflect from team performances" ? This just doesnt add up.

On the balance of what little we know, I see no benefit to ETH undermining his relationship with the entire squad by making stuff up about a player.

I think he was just being honest, possibly naievely, but I dont know how people are conflicted about whether he was telling the truth or not, hes no motive to lie.
 
Was sent away last season to try and help him mid season. The club have Bent over backwards and the arm around the shoulder didn’t work. Now they are calling out behaviour they’ve been unhappy with for over a year. Another player who hasn’t set the place alight since coming in for a huge fee and wages. We’re very good at this.
 
Shaw had to be coached through tough love as well. So this might not be a total lost cause and he has to leave to reboot his career. He needs to drop his defenses, have a come to jesus moment and lift himself to a standard Ten Hag is demanding of his forward players. There's no excuse for it when you have young and hungry attackers like Højlund, Garnacho, Pellestri and soon Amad competing for the same slots.
 
Says a lot that I didn't even realise he was missing from the team yesterday.
 
Telsim said:
Only two ways this ends now. Either Sancho leaves or Ten Hag leaves.
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The balls in Sancho court, but either way EtH wins. Either he responds on the pitch like Rashford so the criticism worked and lit a fire in him or he doesn't and leaves which just proves EtH right.

EtH has put down the marker, its up to Sancho now. Moaning on twitter isn't going to cut it.
 
Sancho is a crap Dele Alli. But we are stuck with him unless we give him away for free and pay his wages.
 
parmenio said:
The greatest manager of all time would prob be up on an assault charge now if he managed Sancho. Sanchos form has been terrible. Now it looks like he’s terrible attitude etc etc. Time for both sides to move on. The January window is his best bet to move on. ETH has shown excellent man management skills in his time here in very difficult circumstances. His purchase of Mount and Antony are questionable though for sure. Sir Alex got a few signings wrong to remember. One of his big ones initially was a disaster if anyone can remember Jim L.
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There is debate who is the greatest of all time between Sir Alex and Pep. For me it has and always will be Sir Alex nevertheless if you believe it is Pep he jettisoned Sancho because of his poor attitude and lack of desire to succeed at City.

I believe Sir Alex would have done exactly the same, as he did with players who had attitude problems like Morrison and even Pogba who he wasn’t that sad to see go.

Somehow our recruitment team decided to ignore this history and his behaviour with England and sign him anyway because he was a hype name and looked good on YouTube.

There has been something severely wrong with our personality profiling in our recruitment. This is something that Sir Alex got right more often that not. Does the player have the personality and desire to play for United?

ETH at least is trying to sign players with a genuine desire to represent this club. Whatever you think of all his signings I can’t think of a single one whose attitude you could question. The vast majority of Ole’s signings for the example contributed to the toxic culture apart from maybe Bruno and AWB.
 
Sancho's career at the top level is probably done, eventhough he's what, 22? ETH has given him nothing but support to come through his issues and given the challenges to meet in training. Sancho is more interested in airing his dirty laundry online then putting in the effort.

Too bad, another case of supreme talent given too much too soon. I have little hope he'll be able to rise to the challenge after this. He'll sit on his contract, £350k/w, and be impossible for the club to move on.

I support ETH 100% in this. He's clearly tried to manage Sancho through and the 3 month sabbatical is really unheard of. You only have to look as far as AWB, who at this time last year wasn't in the team, to see that if you follow the manager's goals in training, work hard and show improvement, he's fair and you can work your way back into the starting XI.
 
The outburst from Sancho is endemic of the much entitled, modern day, and out of touch with reality football player, he has to be disciplined.
 
parmenio said:
The greatest manager of all time would prob be up on an assault charge now if he managed Sancho.
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What Ferguson would have done is irrelevant because he was simply better with people than Ten Hag and had an aura about him that demanded respect as well as a history of winning the biggest trophies in the game. He would probably have been able to get Sancho performing to a higher level in general.

Ferguson also had his favourites at the end of his career, but it was far easier for players to accept being behind legends like Giggs or Scholes than Martial or Antony. Ferguson's standing in the game allowed him to get away with things that other managers couldn't then and wouldn't today.

Sancho needs to knuckle down and train harder, I'm not defending him, but Ten Hag also needs to start rewarding/punishing players for performances on the pitch as well, not just based on training. Antony has offered next to nothing in attack recently and it's not even like we've been solid defensively with him in the side either. I can see why Sancho would be frustrated by the situation considering he was one of the better attacking performers in pre season along with Pellistri, but then Antony comes in and starts every game regardless.
 
saivet said:
Yeah, very much looks like last chance saloon. I think ETH will give him the opportunity to turn things around but if not, he'll be rightfully gone in January or the summer.
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Yeah with the whole Antony hullabaloo, Jadon may get an opportunity but you can bet your house that if he doesn’t buck up, we will be seeing Pellistri on the wing more or Rashford on the right and Garnacho on the left.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
More or less.

The only possible criticism one can direct at ETH here is that he might/should have predicted the player's response to his comment. By which I mean: it never benefits United to give journos something to write about. Better to keep any conflict behind closed doors.

But this obviously depends on certain factors, details we aren't privy to.

Without knowing any such details, it's a perfectly fine comment. ETH has not been shy about calling out players who weren't quite up to standard before - and that has worked out well for him, actually, as in: the players have responded well/professionally to this (Rashford being an obvious example).
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greater wall said:
As much as I would love to agree, I think it was deliberately provocative. He went on to add that the required standard needs to be met daily. He wants a reaction from Sancho but not on twitter. He wants him to prove it on the pitch. I don't think that Sancho has the big mentality. He looks to have a laid back mellow personality. Ten Hag wants warrior mentality like Martinez in his teams. Even Antony who works like crazy tracking back.
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You think it could be a possible test?
Say something relatively mundane, that directly points to Sancho showing less ability than his positional rivals and see how he responds - does he whine on social media or shut up, head down and prove him wrong.
I think Sancho chose the former.
 
philippexyz said:
I support the manager in this situation. Based on everything that I've heard about Sancho from multiple sources over time and seeing his lazy performances on the pitch, I don't see how ETH is not correct here.

I think Sancho is one of those guys that has the technical talent for playing football at a high level, but doesn't really care about it. I'm not sure he even likes, enjoys playing football, really. Textbook example of an undisciplined, spoiled slacker. He would much rather spend time in a hedonistic fashion - partying, eating junk food, drinking, playing video games, chasing women...Chose football as a profession because of the lavish lifestyle and he knew he was talented and that he would make money.

Not sure what will be the solution. I don't really know what his plans are. Could easily see him going to Saudi Arabia for a fat paycheck, then buying a house in Florida/Bahamas/Spain/California/French Riviera, invest some of money he's earned in various businesses(hedge funds, stock, property, restaurants...) and live lavishly for the rest of his life in the Charlie Sheen style.
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You can see him going to SA for a fat pay check?
Well it’s a nice thought but, even if the cost isn’t an issue to SA clubs, why would they want a player who’s done nothing on the world stage, who’s once golden potential turned to dog poo and who can’t even be arsed to work hard in training and earn a place on the substitutes bench ahead of academy kids?

Must add that I wholly support TH in managing the problem.
IMO Sancho ought to be mindful that TH has dealt ruthlessly with massive players who thought they were bigger that the club - and the only thing massive about Sancho (apart from the chip on his shoulder) is his silly salary.
 
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BobFromParva said:
You can see him going to SA for a fat pay check?
Well it’s a nice thought but, even if the cost isn’t an issue to SA clubs, why would they want a player who’s done nothing on the world stage, who’s once golden potential turned to dog poo and who can’t even be arsed to work hard in training and earn a place on the substitutes bench ahead of academy kids?
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Good point. SA signs players people are interested in and want to watch. But probably the only fans who are still liking Sancho are Dortmund's, and they are the type of people who would absolutely despise the SA league.
 
BuzzKillington said:
Tbf he also threw him under the bus by telling everybody why he wasn’t playing and made him seem weak/fragile in the minds of a significant portion of our support.

The club and EtH could have simply said he’d torn a hamstring or had an abdominal/groin injury and had to be out for a few months.
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ETH answered a question.

If he said there was an injury and then Southgate decided to pick him for England or Sancho decided to contradict it surely ETH looks worse. ETH answered the question honestly and Sancho has made it into a drama.
 
kouroux said:
Meanwhile the crap Antony starts every game
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Antony give 10 times more defensive effort on his bad days than Sancho does on his good. Unless Sancho learns to work at both ends of the pitch he cannot be expected to start ahead of anyone.
 
I am truly surprised by all these posts suggesting that EtH somehow attacked Sancho. Is it really unusual that a manager is asked about the matchday squad and simply says who at the moment has the edge? It feels quite normal to me that this is the kind of question and answer about fringe players that's quite normal.

It only becomes a big topic if you don't see Sancho as this kind of fringe player, but that simply is the reality.
 
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