Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[Big Ben Foster]

If he manages to put a team together playing half decent football we'll make top four. I can't remember us being half decent and failing to make top four, the EPL isn't that tough, most year the team who makes 4th and sometimes 3rd are usually the least shit (not great) among an underperforming 4-6/7 teams.
I would like to see ETH succeed but if he's not making top four in his 3rd season he probably wouldn't be the manager to bring back glory to Manchester United.

True, the "solid team outside top 4 vs. poor team finishing top 4" discussion is a false dichotomy. There are a few exceptions, but for the most part if you're finishing outside the top 4, chances are your team is pretty shit and isn't really going anywhere.

 

[crossy1686]

So far the only additions from last season are a new 18 year old CB and a backup CF.

Anyone expecting EtH to completely revolutionise United and turn them into a dominant possession based team should prepare themselves to be disappointed.

I said this in other threads but as always we’ve made a couple of signings and people are expecting things to improve. I don’t expect much from Yoro, who will probably have a lot to learn during his first PL season, so expect a downgrade on Varane for now, same goes for the other lad, if he gets 10 goals I’ll be pleased.

We need a defender in every position and at least one midfielder to improve on last season.

 

[CM]

He's lucky to be getting another season. Expectations are top 4 at a minimum. No chance we allow this fella another season of failure.

Even top 4 is a very generous metric to be assessing him on for next season. That's usually the expectation for a new manager in their transitional season.

Ten Hag has spent over £500m on this team and is entering his third season. We should be capable of playing some actual good football by now and mixing it with the likes of City and Arsenal. We shouldn't relent on that, anything less is failure.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

We need a defender in every position and at least one midfielder to improve on last season.

Or just not have another injury crisis.

 

[NLunited]

If we are terrible again this season, calling Ten Hag a "good manager" is stupid and he'll rightfully be sacked.

No doubt he is good, even good managers get rightfully sacked.

 

[Leftback99]

"Incomplete squad". The excuses have started rolling in very quickly, haven't they? "Demands like that" were the bare minimum for every other manager before him. But somehow now all stars need to align for Manchester United to finish top 4.

We can only dream of being as good as teams like Villa now, who were well behind us when he started.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

We can only dream of being as good as teams like Villa now, who were well behind us when he started.

Are you purposely ignoring the ridiculous injury crisis and 2 trophies in 2 years to their 0? He also won more trophies than Arteta and Klopp in the time he has been at United also.

 

[DJ_21]

He's lucky to be getting another season. Expectations are top 4 at a minimum. No chance we allow this fella another season of failure.

I agree. We should be getting top 4 but I think I’d take 5/6th if we played consistently good football all season and style of play as massive improved.

 

[Insanity]

I agree. We should be getting top 4 but I think I’d take 5/6th if we played consistently good football all season and style of play as massive improved.

There is no reason we won't finish in the top 4 if we play good football consistently. It's not an either/or. We played half decent football for half a sesson & finished top 3 in the season before last.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

like Pep then?

I don't imagine Pep spent 1.5 billion to get Man City into a title challenge. I believe they won it his second season there.

 

[Redasaredthing]

I don’t understand the negativity.

Last season is over, club structures and player pool are improving and there is still time to improve the pool of players.

Some people seem to think it’s a sin to be positive.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

I agree. We should be getting top 4 but I think I’d take 5/6th if we played consistently good football all season and style of play as massive improved.

Both are absolute necessities for a Man Utd manager who has spent over half a billion to get a fourth season.

If we still concede 20 shots a game and get 3rd he should get sacked and if the team pass the eye test and he gets 5th he should get sacked.

We need to pass the eye test and get top 4. This is already an incredibly charitable remit.

Manchester United
500m
3 full seasons

 

[The holy trinity 68]

I don't imagine Pep spent 1.5 billion to get Man City into a title challenge. I believe they won it his second season there.

Just imagine if ETH inherited David Silva, De Bruyne, Aguero, Kompany, Fernandinho, Sterling, then spending 500m in the first 2 summers before he ended up winning the PL for the first time. All the top clubs were in a transition period back then as well.

Arsenal were stagnant under Wenger, Liverpool had only just signed Klopp, Man United need no explaining, Chelsea did win the league in Pep's first season, but fell of in his second. Spurs were Spurs.

 

[RuudTom83]

I said this in other threads but as always we’ve made a couple of signings and people are expecting things to improve. I don’t expect much from Yoro, who will probably have a lot to learn during his first PL season, so expect a downgrade on Varane for now, same goes for the other lad, if he gets 10 goals I’ll be pleased.

We need a defender in every position and at least one midfielder to improve on last season.

100%

Premier League Appearances 23/24 (albeit not all are starts)
Maguire 22
Lindelof 19
McTom 32

All 3 players impact the way the team plays, if any of them get close to those numbers for another season then don't expect a different style/outcome.

 

[DJ_21]

There is no reason we won't finish in the top 4 if we play good football consistently. It's not an either/or. We played half decent football for half a sesson & finished top 3 in the season before last.

True but you can play good football and still lose games. You can play rubbish football and win games. I think most of our fans want to enjoy watching our football again and more times than not it will bring us results.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

Just imagine if ETH inherited David Silva, De Bruyne, Aguero, Kompany, Fernandinho, Sterling, then spending 500m in the first 2 summers before he ended up winning the PL for the first time. All the top clubs were in a transition period back then as well.

Arsenal were stagnant under Wenger, Liverpool had only just signed Klopp, Man United need no explaining, Chelsea did win the league in Pep's first season, but fell of in his second. Spurs were Spurs.

When Ten Hag has 1 title challenge then we can compare him to Pep. In fact when he can get Utd consistently playing with any semblance of a team that could compete in the Premier League then maybe we can talk.

 

[The Cat]

Both are absolute necessities for a Man Utd manager who has spent over half a billion to get a fourth season.

If we still concede 20 shots a game and get 3rd he should get sacked and if the team pass the eye test and he gets 5th he should get sacked.

We need to pass the eye test and get top 4. This is already an incredibly charitable remit.

Manchester United
500m
3 full seasons

I completely agree. The bar for his survival should be insanely high.

If he does it then fair play to him but am not expecting it to work out.

 

[GreatDane]

My standards must be higher than yours then.

If you were satisfied with 8th and -1 gd, then no... your standards are pretty damn low.

 

[Steve 007]

I’m completely contrasted. I want him to prove everyone wrong but even when we got two cup finals and a top four finish we were poor. Then the most ridiculous pl campaign ever after getting 200m worth of recruits. The excellent FA cup final performance gives hope but he either performs or goes.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

I completely agree. The bar for his survival should be insanely high.

If he does it then fair play to him but am not expecting it to work out.

I don't even think that bar is remotely high based on how he's been backed.

I truly hope he reaches it and goes from strength to strength. The excuse making for him is just insane.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

When Ten Hag has 1 title challenge then we can compare him to Pep. In fact when he can get Utd consistently playing with any semblance of a team that could compete in the Premier League then maybe we can talk.

If ETH joined the club when the set up was very good and as it is now, with the club buying players and building a squad for him before he even joined, while inheriting so many world class players and then spending an extra 500m on top of all that then maybe he would.

All of that was what Pep had when joining City. You are acting like Pep worked miracles, not to mention the amount of rules City broke in the process to help as well.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

If ETH joined the club when the set up was very good and as it is now, with the club buying players and building a squad for him before he even joined, while inheriting so many world class players and then spending an extra 500m on top of all that then maybe he would.

All of that was what Pep had when joining City. You are acting like Pep worked miracles, not to mention the amount of rules City broke in the process to help as well.

I'm acting like comparing a manager who can't string together 4 half decent performances in a row after spending half a billion to a manager who has won 4 league titles on the bounce, 3 champions leagues, 2 trebles ect. Ect. Is ridiculous.

If my auntie had wheels she might be a bicycle.

 

[Grande]

Reminds me of poor Georgie Best

 

[The holy trinity 68]

I'm acting like comparing a manager who can't string together 4 half decent performances in a row after spending half a billion to a manager who has won 4 league titles on the bounce, 3 champions leagues, 2 trebles ect. Ect. Is ridiculous.

If my auntie had wheels she might be a bicycle.

But you are ignoring all the things Pep had in place at City that ETH has never had. The club finally has a top set up and benefitting from that is not going to happen overnight. ETH never inherited a top class squad, it had many holes and was disjointed. 2 years later and some of the mess is still here because of the people above him.

What Pep has achieved in his career is not that incredible considering he always joined the best teams or spent the most money or both, just because he gets his teams playing high quality football does not make all the other easy stuff go away.

 

[The Cat]

But you are ignoring all the things Pep had in place at City that ETH has never had. The club finally has a top set up and benefitting from that is not going to happen overnight. ETH never inherited a top class squad, it had many holes and was disjointed. 2 years later and some of the mess is still here because of the people above him.

And a lot of the problems are still here because he insisted on signing them.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

No doubt he is good, even good managers get rightfully sacked.

Okay, not going down this road

 

[The holy trinity 68]

And a lot of the problems are still here because he insisted on signing them.

Having a proper set up stops that from happening. He should not be the one making all the decisions on signings.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

But you are ignoring all the things Pep had in place at City that ETH has never had. The club finally has a top set up and benefitting from that is not going to happen overnight. ETH never inherited a top class squad, it had many holes and was disjointed. 2 years later and some of the mess is still here because of the people above him.

He inherited a squad that had never performed as badly in a league season as his did last year.

One that had finished second and got to a European final a 12 months before he arrived. One where the manager being in 7th before the halfway point of the season was enough to get sacked.

Pep had a few very good players when he signed for City but he also had players like Clichy, Sagna, Fernando, Nolito, Delph, Clichy, Kolarov, Joe Hart, 34 year old Yaya Toure, 32 year old Fernandinho, 31 year old Vincent Kompany, 31 year old David Silva.

You're acting like he walked into a super team. To answer your earlier question no I significantly doubt that if Ten Hag walked into that he could manage it even remotely as well. He's shown nothing to say he is even remotely comparable as a manager to Pep.

 

[Globule]

True, the "solid team outside top 4 vs. poor team finishing top 4" discussion is a false dichotomy. There are a few exceptions, but for the most part if you're finishing outside the top 4, chances are your team is pretty shit and isn't really going anywhere.

It's mostly just a hypothetical to demonstrate priorities.
My priority is that he gets us performing to a better standard, on a note consistent basis. If he does that, top 4 is likely to be a by-product anyway.
But for me, getting us playing better and with a more effective style has to be the focus above everything. It would not only give me reason to believe he can progress further, but it would actually make us enjoyable to watch.

 

[Teja]

So far the only additions from last season are a new 18 year old CB and a backup CF.

Anyone expecting EtH to completely revolutionise United and turn them into a dominant possession based team should prepare themselves to be disappointed.

General lack of injuries and more settled players should help. He started last year without a CF at all because of the whole Hojlund stress fracture stuff.

We finished 3rd with mostly the same squad.

 

[crossy1686]

Or just not have another injury crisis.

What’s the point when swapping out Martinez or Shaw means we can’t play football according to Ten Hag? An injury crisis only mitigates so much.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

What’s the point when swapping out Martinez or Shaw means we can’t play football according to Ten Hag? An injury crisis only mitigates so much.

We weren't even in the top 3 in the league for number of players lost to injury or total days missed due to injuries last season.

Tottenham arguably had worse injuries and finished noticeably above us with a manager in his first season who hadn't spent much, played attacking football and lost the best player in the clubs history.

Excuses, excuses. A good manager could get far more out of what our available squad was for most weeks of last season. Just as a small example the squad that got battered 3-0 by Newcastle at Old Trafford last season included

Onana
Dalot
Wan Bissaka
Maguire
Lindelof
Evans
Reguilon
Casemiro
Mount
Amrabat
McTominay
Eriksen
Bruno Fernandes
Hannibal
Antony
Garnacho
Martial
Hojlund

Give Eddie Howe that squad and I wonder what happens in that match. It's not the Harlem Globetrotters sure but it's an available squad that so many managers would do a lot with.

So many examples of this.

 

[iato89]

Are you purposely ignoring the ridiculous injury crisis and 2 trophies in 2 years to their 0? He also won more trophies than Arteta and Klopp in the time he has been at United also.

Muscular injuries caused by training overload! Also thank Var va coventry for the FA cup win. We were atrocious for ALL of last season!

 

[Crimson King]

We weren't even in the top 3 in the league for number of players lost to injury or total days missed due to injuries last season.

Tottenham arguably had worse injuries and finished noticeably above us with a manager in his first season who hadn't spent much, played attacking football and lost the best player in the clubs history.

Excuses, excuses. A good manager could get far more out of what our available squad was for most weeks of last season. Just as a small example the squad that got battered 3-0 by Newcastle at Old Trafford last season included

Onana
Dalot
Wan Bissaka
Maguire
Lindelof
Evans
Reguilon
Casemiro
Mount
Amrabat
McTominay
Eriksen
Bruno Fernandes
Hannibal
Antony
Garnacho
Martial
Hojlund

Give Eddie Howe that squad and I wonder what happens in that match. It's not the Harlem Globetrotters sure but it's an available squad that so many managers would do a lot with.

So many examples of this.

We were actually top for most players injured. Other teams had more in terms of days lost, but it really depends what dataset you look at and what players they include. Some of them include players named in the squad but who aren't really first XI, or even the immediate backups to those players, so lack context.

EtH obviously didn't do well with the hand that was dealt him, but to say our injuries weren't actually that bad is just a lie. We pretty much went the whole season without a recognised LB, had 1 striker and had to play Casemiro at CB for a period.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

We were actually top for most players injured. Other teams had more in terms of days lost, but it really depends what dataset you look at and what players they include. Some of them include players named in the squad but who aren't really first XI, or even the immediate backups to those players, so lack context.

EtH obviously didn't do well with the hand that was dealt him, but to say our injuries weren't actually that bad is just a lie. We pretty much went the whole season without a recognised LB, had 1 striker and had to play Casemiro at CB for a period.

Yes we were top of the stat that I didn't quote. I think it is the least important of the 3 personally. Most days injured would be first for actually missing players, then most instances for squad disruption.

Re your second paragraph I never said that but Ten Hag spent a lot of money on a player who plays in the position of our best player and captain who is never injured. He did that whilst knowing Malacia had a serious injury, whilst knowing Martial was our only other striker apart from Hojlund. That's his choice.

Still regardless we had a squad nearly every match day squad that a lot of managers could have gotten far more from.

 

[Zoo]

Lillestrøm coach Andreas Georgson in talks with Manchester United about a role in the coaching staff of Ten Hag, as reported by @StianWahl. Heard that there are only details that remain before the appointment is confirmed. Was brought by Wilcox to Southampton as set piece coach.

Set piece coach at Brentford and Arsenal previously.

 

[Crimson King]

Yes we were top of the stat that I didn't quote. I think it is the least important of the 3 personally. Most days injured would be first for actually missing players, then most instances for squad disruption.

Re your second paragraph I never said that but Ten Hag spent a lot of money on a player who plays in the position of our best player and captain who is never injured. He did that whilst knowing Malacia had a serious injury, whilst knowing Martial was our only other striker apart from Hojlund. That's his choice.

Still regardless we had a squad nearly every match day squad that a lot of managers could have gotten far more from.

I disagree that days injured is most important. If you're missing you're whole first XI for about 10 games but then another team are missing their back up XI for 15, who's come out worse in that?

They didn't know Malacia's injury was that serious until after January, that's why they let Reguilon go. If Martial had been fit and available Højlund wouldn't have been played into the ground.

EtH made a lot of errors last season, but plenty still conspired against him, almost an unusual amount at times.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

They didn't know Malacia's injury was that serious until after January, that's why they let Reguilon go. If Martial had been fit and available Højlund wouldn't have been played into the ground.

EtH made a lot of errors last season, but plenty still conspired against him, almost an unusual amount at times.

These are the sort of things that defending this man produces.

"They didn't know Malacia's injury was serious until January" he had been injured since May. That's 8 months and he had refused to be treated by the club's doctor. If they suspected he would pop back up and start playing that should be gross misconduct.

He had a full season with Martial, everyone on here including me was screaming that we needed a backup option last summer. If I know more than a Man Utd manager that is an issue. Search the Choupo Moting thread on here.

I'm sure a lot conspired against him. That is football, a lot conspired for him too like being gifted a goal in the FA Cup final that saved him his job. Football is a weird sport. It is the managers job to deal with it. A LOT of managers would have dealt with it better.

 

[croadyman]

With probably 7/8 teams challenging for top four and the poor state of the squad as of now, demanding top four as a minimum requirement is counterproductive. Let‘s see who we bring in before making demands like that.

Sacking a good manager because he missed out on top 4 with an incomplete squad is not ‚setting standards‘, but dumb management.

The standards that matter are being addressed I believe: recruit well, appoint staff that is best in class, uphold disciplinary standards, improve facilities etc.

It will take time to get rid of bloated contracts and over the hill players.

I could see real trouble for Erik if we don’t manage to make more sales before this window shuts

 

[TrivelaDeBruno]

These are the sort of things that defending this man produces.

"They didn't know Malacia's injury was serious until January" he had been injured since May. That's 8 months and he had refused to be treated by the club's doctor. If they suspected he would pop back up and start playing that should be gross misconduct.

He had a full season with Martial, everyone on here including me was screaming that we needed a backup option last summer. If I know more than a Man Utd manager that is an issue. Search the Choupo Moting thread on here.

I'm sure a lot conspired against him. That is football, a lot conspired for him too like being gifted a goal in the FA Cup final that saved him his job. Football is a weird sport. It is the managers job to deal with it. A LOT of managers would have dealt with it better.

No issue then