Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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Still not really understanding his football vision.

Broken on multiple times easily, the majority of moments up front were based on individualism, midfield still struggled to get a hold of the ball and dominate it, still didn't press as a unit and looked vulnerable to the press from a rubbish team.

Pre season and all that. Let's see what happens.
 
OverratedOpinion said:
Still not really understanding his football vision.

Broken on multiple times easily, the majority of moments up front were based on individualism, midfield still struggled to get a hold of the ball and dominate it, still didn't press as a unit and looked vulnerable to the press from a rubbish team.

Pre season and all that. Let's see what happens.
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I'll be going to watch their pre-season game against Liverpool. Will be very interesting to see his approach against Liverpool and Arsenal
 
Rojofiam said:
Why are you making up bullshit criteria in order to try to boost your argument? Who cares about leadership or the national team? Sorry, but that's silly.

I don't think you can class Mount as a 7/10 signing just yet, but labelling him a 4/10 isn't valid either.

The injuries aren't the player's fault. He was also injured all season just in the first year of his 5-year contract.

He cost £55m, not "£60m+". ETH really wanted him, and there was no guarantee that he would join us on a free 1 year later. The fee is also arguably reasonable. I don't think there are many, if any examples of a player of Mount's quality and status within the game switching clubs with 1 year left on their contract for much less than 55 million.

"No obvious position/role in the first XI"...okay, first of all, you don't know that. Secondly, you have to think about this in terms of the whole squad. There are a lot of quality players both at City and Arsenal (whose levels we are currently aspiring to reach) who don't really have a set in stone role or place in the starting XI, and yet they are very important for their sides, and get a lot of play time as well, both as a starter and off the bench.

Considering everything, you can't judge the signing yet. He barely played, but whenever he did, he was alright. It's also pointless to judge any player based on a season like last one. Not many players can perform in a dysfunctional and struggling team like 23/24 United. Some of the best players in the world currently from other teams would've looked like Championship level players in last season's side. You can basically act as if that season never happened when assessing any particular player. It's an x/10 signing, and we'll find out later what that number is.
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To clarify, I quite like Mount and hope he proves to be a great squad addition. I think he’s a massive upgrade on Eriksen and has a good engine.

I also hope that with a more mobile 6 we can play with two 8s

Re. “National team” my point is that had he just had a good Euros his market value would be higher thus better justifying the 7/10 rating
 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/czd9vz9v2lyo.amp

Says he agrees with RR’s assessment ie. the open heart surgery comment. We should probably have stuck to the initial plan of having RR move into a consultant role - the squad would’ve probably been in a better shape now - considering the money spent and EtH wouldn’t have had (or I should say shouldn’t have had) that much power over signings. Oh well, so we learn.
 
cpresc said:
To clarify, I quite like Mount and hope he proves to be a great squad addition. I think he’s a massive upgrade on Eriksen and has a good engine.

I also hope that with a more mobile 6 we can play with two 8s

Re. “National team” my point is that had he just had a good Euros his market value would be higher thus better justifying the 7/10 rating
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How was he supposed to have a good Euros? Why would we care about his resale value after 1 season? These things are just so irrelevant IMO.
 
Not surprised that his longform interview has been twisted and mischaracterised into quotable quotes and catchy headlines.
 
Looks like we’re seeing a different ETH this season. He’s being a lot more honest and brutal when having interviews. I still think he’s quite annoyed at how his start to his holiday when with waiting around about his future.
 
DJ_21 said:
Looks like we’re seeing a different ETH this season. He’s being a lot more honest and brutal when having interviews. I still think he’s quite annoyed at how his start to his holiday when with waiting around about his future.
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I got the impression his more aggressive stance was actually in play towards the end of last season and before the cup final. Obviously results were horrific but I don’t think Ole, Jose or Moyes had anywhere near the media criticism he did (fan criticism was more or less the same).

It suits him actually. Got the feeling he was too polite to the media in his first year.
 
Pickle85 said:
Many of these are very, very generous assessments.
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Hardly. Some of you fail to recognize our dire situation preventing us from being forceful in the market. The only real failure so far is Antony due to his price tag (who still has a shot to turn it around).

You can argue Eriksen and Casemiro were wrong transfers strategically. The pricing, wages and length of contract aren‘t Ten Hag‘s responsibility though.

Onana, Martinez, Malacia, Højlund, ZZ, Yoro and probably Mount are part of the new United for years to come. Add to that the players coming up through the academy.
 
Ish said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/czd9vz9v2lyo.amp

Says he agrees with RR’s assessment ie. the open heart surgery comment. We should probably have stuck to the initial plan of having RR move into a consultant role - the squad would’ve probably been in a better shape now - considering the money spent and EtH wouldn’t have had (or I should say shouldn’t have had) that much power over signings. Oh well, so we learn.
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Rangnick would've had that role but he couldn't help himself and aired the club's dirty laundry out in public every week.
 
Irwin99 said:
I got the impression his more aggressive stance was actually in play towards the end of last season and before the cup final. Obviously results were horrific but I don’t think Ole, Jose or Moyes had anywhere near the media criticism he did (fan criticism was more or less the same).

It suits him actually. Got the feeling he was too polite to the media in his first year.
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Ye maybe. The media will lay into foreign managers especially ones that aren’t well known like ETH wasn’t compared to the other 3 you mentioned. What really annoys me though is the fact ETH gets all this stick despite everything he’s had to deal with yet you have the media praising spurs manager who bottled top 4, Arteta gets praised who bottled the league twice and hasn’t won as many trophy’s as ETH in more time.
 
Tom Van Persie said:
Rangnick would've had that role but he couldn't help himself and aired the club's dirty laundry out in public every week.
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Yeah I’m not a huge RR fan, albeit he had an impossible task here as manager anyway. But yeah, keeping RR wasn’t necessarily the right alternative, but it would probably have gone better than giving EtH so much power over signings.
 
pratyush_utd said:
You should actually read the article. Context is missing as he actually mentions that this as positive




Would recommend to read the entire interview and not Daily Mail
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Yeah that massively changes the context- the supposed negative is in fact positive.
 
I think implementing the required playing style, playing well on the pitch and good underlying statistics are more important than whether the table says 4th or 5th at the end of the season. There's easily enough variance even over 38 games for it to massively effect league position for any team, whether positively or negatively.

I'd rather have us finishing out of top 4 but show real progression on the pitch, rather than play terrorist football but luck our way into the CL places.

Something that can be decided by luck, be it a refereeing decision, or just one unlucky result, etc. should not have such a big say over the long-term future of your footballing project. It's the type of stupidity that the Glazers applied when deciding the future of managers. 5th on 69 pts or 4th on 70 pts is really the same thing. Just compare Arsenal and Tottenham in the 2021/22 season. Arsenal was on the up, it was evident if you followed them closely. Spurs were never going anywhere under Conte, it was evident if you followed them closely. The league table lied. What decided between 4th and 5th for Arsenal? Two bad results at the end of the season.

If we play well next season, the players keep improving, the squad keeps evolving, but miss out on top 4, I will want ETH to stay.

If we are abysmal next season, but somehow get 3rd or 4th...I don't think he will survive and that will probably be the best decision.

Obviously, if we play well and do everything well, it's likely we get into the CL anyways...but bad luck can mess things up, and other teams are going to be strong as well.

Thankfully, the people who will decide his future are smart enough to know what matters the most.
 
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Rojofiam said:
I think implementing the required playing style, playing well on the pitch and good underlying statistics are more important than whether the table says 4th or 5th at the end of the season. There's easily enough variance even over 38 games for it to massively effect league position for any team, whether positively or negatively.

I'd rather have us finishing out of top 4 but show real progression on the pitch, rather than play terrorist football but luck our way into the CL places.

Something that can be decided by luck, be it a refereeing decision, or just one unlucky result, etc. should not have such a big say over the long-term future of your footballing project. It's the type of stupidity that the Glazers applied when deciding the future of managers. 5th on 69 pts or 4th on 70 pts is really the same thing. Just compare Arsenal and Tottenham in the 2021/22 season. Arsenal was on the up, it was evident if you followed them closely. Spurs were never going anywhere under Conte, it was evident if you followed them closely. The league table lied. What decided between 4th and 5th for Arsenal? Two bad results at the end of the season.

If we play well next season, the players keep improving, the squad keeps evolving, but miss out on top 4, I will want ETH to stay.

If we are abysmal next season, but somehow get 3rd or 4th...I don't think he will survive and that will probably be the best decision.

Thankfully, the people who will decide his future are smart enough to know what matters the most.
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Think all of this is pretty obvious though no? He's not "under pressure to get top 4" but he's sure as shit under pressure to improve massively. There's no excuse for not doing so. Another season of 6th and shit performances and he won't survive the year.
 
Valencia Shin Crosses said:
Think all of this is pretty obvious though no? He's not "under pressure to get top 4" but he's sure as shit under pressure to improve massively. There's no excuse for not doing so. Another season of 6th and shit performances and he won't survive the year.
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I think it's obvious, but people can get too fixated on performances. And the article's headline only mentions the top 4 as well. Next season will also basically be a whole different squad compared to last one, with all the new signings and if we avoid an injury crisis. So there aren't going to be many excuses for ETH anymore. However, you know that a decent portion of the fanbase would be demanding to have him sacked if we are generally doing well, but slip to 5th from 4th on the last day of the season.
 
fallengt said:
Don't know what was he expecting. His fault or not, anyone involved in Anthony's signing should've been fined.
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I agree. But every team and every manager makes dodgy signings. City signed Kalvin Phillips and Nunes under pep who obvs aren’t good enough to start for them. They signed Grealish who I wouldn’t says lived upto his price tag. He gets away with it because he’s been bailed out by his team and he actually gets trophies despite hardly contributing.
 
Obviously I want us to finish in the top 4 and win a trophy, but I think the primary aim for Ten Hag needs to be a significant improvement in performances.

Hopefully that would lead to successful results, but I would rather miss out on the CL and see us performing much better, much more consistently than sneak into the CL while putting in more performances like last season.
 
Valencia Shin Crosses said:
Think all of this is pretty obvious though no? He's not "under pressure to get top 4" but he's sure as shit under pressure to improve massively. There's no excuse for not doing so. Another season of 6th and shit performances and he won't survive the year.
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Also, with the new players coming in (assuming at least one major signing is still coming), you'd think that significantly increased performance will anyway equal top 4. Or if it doesn't, it will be clear that there are many outstanding teams next season (which admittedly is also possible).
fallengt said:
Don't know what was he expecting. His fault or not, anyone involved in Anthony's signing should've been fined.
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If you would have continued a little in the thread, you would have noticed the many posts pointing out that Ten Hag says this is in a positive way in the interview: he's happy he lost those responsibilities and think it's how it should be at a club of United's size.
 
Cheimoon said:
Also, with the new players coming in (assuming at least one major signing is still coming), you'd think that significantly increased performance will anyway equal top 4. Or if it doesn't, it will be clear that there are many outstanding teams next season (which admittedly is also possible).
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He will have had 3 seasons and probably over 600m spent. This after taking over the team who a year prior had finished second and got to a European final under an alleged glorified P.E teacher.

He's extremely lucky to still be in a job as is.

"Other teams were just having a really good season" wouldn't cut it.
 
Cheimoon said:
Also, with the new players coming in (assuming at least one major signing is still coming), you'd think that significantly increased performance will anyway equal top 4. Or if it doesn't, it will be clear that there are many outstanding teams next season (which admittedly is also possible).

If you would have continued a little in the thread, you would have noticed the many posts pointing out that Ten Hag says this is in a positive way in the interview: he's happy he lost those responsibilities and think it's how it should be at a club of United's size.
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Yeah I tend to think the same, but I'm also not going to bring out a pitchfork if we get 5th with 70 something points and huge performance improvements.

The second part is the most important. If we sit there and play shit football or concede 20 shots a game again I'll want Ten Hag gone by Christmas.
 
OverratedOpinion said:
He will have had 3 seasons and probably over 600m spent. This after taking over the team who a year prior had finished second and got to a European final under an alleged glorified P.E teacher.

He's extremely lucky to still be in a job as is.

"Other teams were just having a really good season" wouldn't cut it.
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It's not that simple. Last season was a mess and you can't just ignore that by saying 'it's his third season'. Also, every other top 8 team (as one can say now) is also in contention for top 4. So yes, there is a chance that United look much better but still just miss out on 4th.

I don't even disagree that Ten Hag might not be good enough either way, but now he's been retained as the manager, it makes sense if success criteria are realistic.
 
Valencia Shin Crosses said:
Yeah I tend to think the same, but I'm also not going to bring out a pitchfork if we get 5th with 70 something points and huge performance improvements.

The second part is the most important. If we sit there and play shit football or concede 20 shots a game again I'll want Ten Hag gone by Christmas.
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Definitely. Improvement in the style of play right from matchday 1 will be a must for him to survive far into the season.
 
Cheimoon said:
It's not that simple. Last season was a mess and you can't just ignore that by saying 'it's his third season'. Also, every other top 8 team (as one can say now) is also in contention for top 4. So yes, there is a chance that United look much better but still just miss out on 4th.

I don't even disagree that Ten Hag might not be good enough either way, but now he's been retained as the manager, it makes sense if success criteria are realistic.
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What I said was in no way simple. This season is it (should have already been done but here we are) he either achieves his targets and makes us look like a somewhat competent team that is in the ascendency or he's done.
 
Juice Juiced said:
3th season. Title charge or feck off
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Realistically this should be the stance. This is what he was brought in for and he has been backed with an ungodly amount of money.

Sadly we have been so poor that even I have had to revise my position to top 4 and promising football.
 
OverratedOpinion said:
Realistically this should be the stance. This is what he was brought in for and he has been backed with an ungodly amount of money.

Sadly we have been so poor that even I have had to revise my position to top 4 and promising football.
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I think we already have similar discussion... For me, imho, if he is more than 10 pts being leaders around Christmass he should go.

It isn't anymore how we are bad, yes we all know, but some starnads should be put at the place.
 
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