Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager

[El Zoido]

Without question, United has been a blotch on every manager hired since SAF. I had to laugh at the BBC story about Ragnick supposedly being a laughing stock at United and now he’s amazballs. Most of the comments correctly point out the only laughing stock was and is United.

The best clubs don’t need a world class manager to get success. I cant think of a basket case club like United , consistently under performing for over a decade, wasting massive amounts of money , who properly succeeded with a top class manager and if there are examples they are few and far between. I can think of plenty of examples were average managers won top trophies.

United has been a mess for 11 years. No manager could have made it work. No manager was able to make it work. Jose was the 2nd best manager in the world when he joined (he beat pep with Madrid) , people forget how high his stock was when he joined. Just like Harry Stamper in Armageddon, Jose has NEVER failed to meet a target at any club he had worked at before managing United. United was the outlier in his career. We will never know if he could of continued his upper trajectory with United because the club pulled the rug from under him after he’d gotten us 2nd spot, our joint best position in 11 years.

Indeed United is an outlier in all United managers and most United players careers for all the wrong reasons. This is not a coincidence.

Just writing this, again, for the people who seem to just not get it. A lot of fans aren’t “give the manager more and it might work out” because they adore the manager or have some weird desire to see managers get long contracts. It’s because they/we see the issues within the club as a bigger problem then finding a Jesus/messiah level manager to make fawlty towers Trafford somehow work.

Great post, I’m in complete agreement. The downside of having the greatest manager in history for 26 years is that the club and its fanbase have a massive cult of manager syndrome. Regarding Rangnick, yes United were the laughing stock amongst general football fans, but just look at how United fans perceived him. He got abuse nonstop for being in the middle of this chaos and calling it out. But I suppose when the lunatics run the asylum the sane person is one that looks crazy.

 

[Sarni]

Not year 1 because the Structure isn’t even in place yet. Year 1 will be 25/26 when Ashworth can start helping ETH to build the team. Based on that we should be happy enough if he keeps us in the top half next season.

Good point. Remains to be seen how much the structure will be able to do this year. I kind of expect that we will only do limited business this Summer and will use this year to re-assess existing squad.

I don't think they'll be happy with merely top half. Has to be at least as good as last season, probably some improvement will be expected too. If we don't have a cup to fall back on then it will have to be 6th or higher in the league. I am expecting us to go far in Europa League though, probably semifinal/final. With no teams dropping down from CL it's not particularly stacked, the only teams being around our level being Athletic, Tottenham, Roma, Porto and Lazio.

 

[Hal9000]

Great post, I’m in complete agreement. The downside of having the greatest manager in history for 26 years is that the club and its fanbase have a massive **** of manager syndrome. Regarding Rangnick, yes United were the laughing stock amongst general football fans, but just look at how United fans perceived him. He got abuse nonstop for being in the middle of this chaos and calling it out. But I suppose when the lunatics run the asylum the sane person is one that looks crazy.

It's a shame Rangnick came in when he did, would of been far better for him to come in around Ineos as maybe they would of listened to him. Lot of the stuff Ineos are doing are things he openly called out, look at the players he suggested and where they are at now. Yes his time as manager wasn't great, it's a shame we ditched his consultant role when ETH came in just because he called out the shambles.

 

[troylocker]

Arteta put up a title challenge in his first two years?

He referring to his 3rd full season, like the one ETH is entering now.

 

[VP89]

He referring to his 3rd full season, like the one ETH is entering now.

Nice, so the first 6 months just outright doesn't count.

 

[El Jefe]

Nice, so the first 6 months just outright doesn't count.

Count it if you want, either way by the end of the season I want to see the improvement Klopp and Arteta had by 2-2.5 years after being there.

Arsenal and Liverpool were flying by the start of the beginning of their third full season. Not just winning games but playing exceptional football every week and scoring loads of goals. I better see this halfway through the upcoming season.

 

[VP89]

Count it if you want, either way by the end of the season I want to see the improvement Klopp and Arteta had by 2-2.5 years after being there.

Arsenal and Liverpool were flying by the start of the beginning of their third full season. Not just winning games but playing exceptional football every week and scoring loads of goals. I better see this halfway through the upcoming season.

Makes no sense. There's been a complete reshuffle that affects how business is done together with the game model itself.

 

[troylocker]

Nice, so the first 6 months just outright doesn't count.

Don't put that on me. I was just pointing out what season Arteta made his first title challenge.

You know what I think on ETH.

I think any comparisons to Klopp, Arteta or Fergie are silly and not even a little bit relevant when making out if ETH could be the right man or not despite having done a horrible job this season. One could probably name a 100 managers that stayed too long in their jobs after having a bad 2nd season. Not that that's relevant either, because every manager, club, surrounding circomstances are different.

 

[VP89]

Don't put that on me. I was just pointing out what season Arteta made his first title challenge.

You know what I think on ETH.

I think any comparisons to Klopp, Arteta or Fergie are silly and not even a little bit relevant when making out if ETH could be the right man or not despite having done a horrible job this season. One could probably name a 100 managers that stayed too long in their jobs after having a bad 2nd season. Not that that's relevant either, because every manager, club, surrounding circomstances are different.

Well you chose to cherry pick Artetas time to two full seasons and ignore his poor start, so I didn't really put anything on you.

 

[Borys]

Not year 1 because the Structure isn’t even in place yet. Year 1 will be 25/26 when Ashworth can start helping ETH to build the team. Based on that we should be happy enough if he keeps us in the top half next season.

Agreed. Also, considering very difficult start to the season (Brighton and Crystal Palace in first 6 games, our boogey teams), I think we set realistic expectations of staying in Premier League next season. Maybe, with some luck, we can make it through group stages of Europa League.

Realistically speaking, 24/25 is a write off because of difficult start, 25/26 is a transitional season, 26/27 I would consider a buffer, 27/28 some of the current squad will leave so we will need to rebuild, then 28/29 will be another transitional season beacause of that but I think 29/30 is our season that we should at least finish in top half of the table.

 

[VP89]

Conversational extremists out in full force again.

 

[troylocker]

Well you chose to cherry pick Artetas time to two full seasons and ignore his poor start, so I didn't really put anything on you.

I was only referring to another guys comments, explaining what he referred to.

As I said, I don't think comparing Arteta's start at Arsenal to ETH start here is relevant. I do think it is a difference between taking over a club in crisis at Christmas and taking over in May/June for an interim though.
I don't expect ETH to challenge for the PL this season and I wouldn't even if I believed in him as a manager for us. The gap between us and Liverpool, City and Arsenal is too big to close in one season. If he get's us playing good football, strings together good performances and secures a CL spot, he'll have me convinced, but I don't think he will.

 

[troylocker]

Agreed. Also, considering very difficult start to the season (Brighton and Crystal Palace in first 6 games, our boogey teams), I think we set realistic expectations of staying in Premier League next season. Maybe, with some luck, we can make it through group stages of Europa League.

Realistically speaking, 24/25 is a write off because of difficult start, 25/26 is a transitional season, 26/27 I would consider a buffer, 27/28 some of the current squad will leave so we will need to rebuild, then 28/29 will be another transitional season beacause of that but I think 29/30 is our season that we should at least finish in top half of the table.

This is the best satire I've read in here in a while.
Thank you, Borys.

 

[iato89]

Not year 1 because the Structure isn’t even in place yet. Year 1 will be 25/26 when Ashworth can start helping ETH to build the team. Based on that we should be happy enough if he keeps us in the top half next season.

So already making excuses! ETH failed to implement a style of play last year (it was a horrid midfield set up) and if he fails again its ok as it is his first year under a new structure! Jesus.

 

[iato89]

I don't think that is necessarily fair. Arteta and Klopp had been working under proper footballing structure for much longer prior to their successful seasons. This will be the first year of ETH working under footballing structure, so technically year 1 of his proper job, his goals should be more aligned with their initial seasons.

If he can deliver top 5-6 spot next year, it will be considered a success.

Big huge facepalm. In what world is 5/6 a success? It seems like excuses are already incoming for next season. He failed to implement a proper style of play (horrendous last season) and now some are willing to give him a free ride in his THIRD year just because now we have a new (supposedly better) structure. If he doenst get a minimum if top 4 he will be shown the door simple as that. He can count his lucky start he is still the manager after Tuchel didnt accept the financial pacakge let alone if he has another season like this (worse or second worse league season in the last 30 years)

 

[VP89]

I was only referring to another guys comments, explaining what he referred to.

As I said, I don't think comparing Arteta's start at Arsenal to ETH start here is relevant. I do think it is a difference between taking over a club in crisis at Christmas and taking over in May/June for an interim though.
I don't expect ETH to challenge for the PL this season and I wouldn't even if I believed in him as a manager for us. The gap between us and Liverpool, City and Arsenal is too big to close in one season. If he get's us playing good football, strings together good performances and secures a CL spot, he'll have me convinced, but I don't think he will.

Okay fair enough

 

[Shark]

Count it if you want, either way by the end of the season I want to see the improvement Klopp and Arteta had by 2-2.5 years after being there.

Arsenal and Liverpool were flying by the start of the beginning of their third full season. Not just winning games but playing exceptional football every week and scoring loads of goals. I better see this halfway through the upcoming season.

There's absolutely nothing to indicate that we'll be flying in any shape or form, so prepare yourself for disappointment. Teams don't just suddenly fly and score goals galore, there's always signs building up to it which is why Klopp and Arteta were not sacked for having below par seasons. All ETH has is that FA Cup triumph, it completely saved his job, mixed with a lack of convincing candidates.

 

[El Jefe]

Makes no sense. There's been a complete reshuffle that affects how business is done together with the game model itself.

Ahh I see the excuse is already in for this coming season.

All of last season we heard how ETH had a similar points per game to Klopp and Arteta in their first two seasons. Now that we’re at the point we’re expectations need to improve in line with them the excuses come in.

There's absolutely nothing to indicate that we'll be flying in any shape or form, so prepare yourself for disappointment. Teams don't just suddenly fly and score goals galore, there's always signs building up to it which is why Klopp and Arteta were not sacked for having below par seasons. All ETH has is that FA Cup triumph, it completely saved his job, mixed with a lack of convincing candidates.

I agree with you which is why I think it was silly to compare their progress with EtH’s last season. After two years we still can’t pass as a team or play out from the back. There’s so many other things we can’t do but there are many threads for that.

Both Klopp and Arteta created foundations and structures for how they want to play and were already implementing it pretty well after two seasons. It happened to all come together in their third full season.

After two years were no closer to knowing what Ten Hag football is and last season was just a complete mess and worse than the year before.

 

[romufc]

Count it if you want, either way by the end of the season I want to see the improvement Klopp and Arteta had by 2-2.5 years after being there.

Arsenal and Liverpool were flying by the start of the beginning of their third full season. Not just winning games but playing exceptional football every week and scoring loads of goals. I better see this halfway through the upcoming season.

Right because we want to compare apple to apple.

Answer the following:

1. Did Arsenal or Liverpool go through a takeover midway through a season that took 1 year?
2. Were they sacking the board and replacing with a new one?

 

[Juicy Juiced]

Excuses are already out.

 

[VP89]

Ahh I see the excuse is already in for this coming season.

All of last season we heard how ETH had a similar points per game to Klopp and Arteta in their first two seasons. Now that we’re at the point we’re expectations need to improve in line with them the excuses come in.

Excuses? What in earth are you on about. He won't be able to push for a title next year because he doesn't have the squad for it. This isn't an excuse but an obvious fact.

 

[stefan92]

Excuses? What in earth are you on about. He won't be able to push for a title next year because he doesn't have the squad for it. This isn't an excuse but an obvious fact.

It's not a fact as long as we don't know how the squad will look. It's too early to make judgement based on the squad. Already claiming that now does look like excuses, because it simply can't be a fact right now.

That said I also don't expect United to have a great squad next season. It will just be someone else messing it up this summer, not EtH.

 

[VP89]

It's not a fact as long as we don't know how the squad will look. It's too early to make judgement based on the squad. Already claiming that now does look like excuses, because it simply can't be a fact right now.

That said I also don't expect United to have a great squad next season. It will just be someone else messing it up this summer, not EtH.

We know we cant fix the squad in one window. Our owner has literally said this himself.

 

[mu4c_20le]

We know we cant fix the squad in one window. Our owner has literally said this himself.

That's honestly the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

 

[VP89]

That's honestly the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

You say a lot of questionable things so it makes sense you're unable to grasp a genuine point.

What bit do you struggle with? Do you think we can fix the squad in one window?

 

[El Jefe]

Right because we want to compare apple to apple.

Answer the following:

1. Did Arsenal or Liverpool go through a takeover midway through a season that took 1 year?
2. Were they sacking the board and replacing with a new one?

1. No
2. Liverpool no but Arsenal were overhauling their football director roles while Arteta was there in the aftermath of the failed Pepe signing.

Now answer my question

1. Did EtH have a better squad when joining United than Klopp and Arteta did when they joined Liverpool and Arsenal?
2. Did he spend more money on transfers than both and get to bring in players he’d previously worked with?

It’s an easy to only highlight the areas where the others benefitted but he walked into an easier job than they did.

Excuses? What in earth are you on about. He won't be able to push for a title next year because he doesn't have the squad for it. This isn't an excuse but an obvious fact.

Klopp didn’t push for the title in his third season so no that is not what I’m expecting. I’ve already responded to you on what I’m expecting from Ten Hag below but I’ll quote it again. There shouldn’t be a single reason why EtH should not have us playing his style successfully by next season.

Count it if you want, either way by the end of the season I want to see the improvement Klopp and Arteta had by 2-2.5 years after being there.

Arsenal and Liverpool were flying by the start of the beginning of their third full season. Not just winning games but playing exceptional football every week and scoring loads of goals. I better see this halfway through the upcoming season.

 

[mu4c_20le]

You say a lot of questionable things so it makes sense you're unable to grasp a genuine point.

What bit do you struggle with? Do you think we can fix the squad in one window?

You can't honestly believe what you just typed. The other poster was talking about facts, and instead you doubled down on 'knowing' something that hasn't happened yet.

 

[pocco]

Big huge facepalm. In what world is 5/6 a success? It seems like excuses are already incoming for next season. He failed to implement a proper style of play (horrendous last season) and now some are willing to give him a free ride in his THIRD year just because now we have a new (supposedly better) structure. If he doenst get a minimum if top 4 he will be shown the door simple as that. He can count his lucky start he is still the manager after Tuchel didnt accept the financial pacakge let alone if he has another season like this (worse or second worse league season in the last 30 years)

As soon as Ineos decided they were happy to keep him after an outstandingly poor season, they set the standards. They then doubled down on it with a new contract. They then backed that up with looking to hire more dutch coaches to help him do his job. They've well and truly insulated our bald genius into the club, made him bigger than any manager since Sir Alex.

I think they realised we're shopping in the lower tier of players and won't be challenging for years to come, so they realised he's a manager that is happy with that. I suspect this is probably why the talks with Tuchel fell apart, as he wouldn't accept this sort of role. For Ten Hag though, he can blame everything and everyone else until he's blue in the face now, as he's not responsible for anything anymore. He's untouchable.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

Excuses? What in earth are you on about. He won't be able to push for a title next year because he doesn't have the squad for it. This isn't an excuse but an obvious fact.

Arsenal had a squad that finished 5th in the PL, added Gabriel Jesus, Zinchenko, and Saliba, which on paper is not a massive increase in quality, and then pushed for the title.

United performed worse than 5th but it has also been claimed by many that this is not becuase of squad quality but because players were unavailable due to injury. A more available 'squad' finished 3rd two seasons ago.

 

[Revan]

As soon as Ineos decided they were happy to keep him after an outstandingly poor season, they set the standards. They then doubled down on it with a new contract. They then backed that up with looking to hire more dutch coaches to help him do his job. They've well and truly insulated our bald genius into the club, made him bigger than any manager since Sir Alex.

I think they realised we're shopping in the lower tier of players and won't be challenging for years to come, so they realised he's a manager that is happy with that. I suspect this is probably why the talks with Tuchel fell apart, as he wouldn't accept this sort of role. For Ten Hag though, he can blame everything and everyone else until he's blue in the face now, as he's not responsible for anything anymore. He's untouchable.

Yep, their idiotic decision to keep him and then doubling down by giving him a new contract is gonna look even more idiotic in 6 months. When we, surprise surprise, will be as bad as this season, but them sacking him 6 months after deciding to not only not sack him, but empower him would look bad on them, so I'll suspect they will have to keep him regardless of how bad we'll be.

I think it will be an even more toxic season than this one. They fecked up, and then fecked up again.

 

[Red Star One]

As soon as Ineos decided they were happy to keep him after an outstandingly poor season, they set the standards. They then doubled down on it with a new contract. They then backed that up with looking to hire more dutch coaches to help him do his job. They've well and truly insulated our bald genius into the club, made him bigger than any manager since Sir Alex.

I think they realised we're shopping in the lower tier of players and won't be challenging for years to come, so they realised he's a manager that is happy with that. I suspect this is probably why the talks with Tuchel fell apart, as he wouldn't accept this sort of role. For Ten Hag though, he can blame everything and everyone else until he's blue in the face now, as he's not responsible for anything anymore. He's untouchable.

Agreed and I’m pretty sure that if we finish 5-6 next year there will be at least some talk of improvement, ETH not being properly supported, back luck and so. If this season was considered successful enough due to the domestic cup to grant ETH a new contract despite finishing 8th in the league and crashing out of CL group stage (not to mention unwatchable football), I’m certain something like a 5th place only 5 points off the fourth, Europa League quarter and Carabao semi will be considered a success, too.

 

[pcaming]

Yep, their idiotic decision to keep him and then doubling down by giving him a new contract is gonna look even more idiotic in 6 months. When we, surprise surprise, will be as bad as this season, but them sacking him 6 months after deciding to not only not sack him, but empower him would look bad on them, so I'll suspect they will have to keep him regardless of how bad we'll be.

I think it will be an even more toxic season than this one. They fecked up, and then fecked up again.

Even if the football doesn't improve, I suspect simply having players like Shaw and Martinez available, plus some recruits should see us in a decent position.

I feel like everyone is forgetting that the coaching options available were pretty crap. I don't believe Ineos were necessarily wrong for sticking to their guns that the system needed to be improved first before judging the manager completely, even if I don't like ETH.

 

[ArmaDino]

Arsenal had a squad that finished 5th in the PL, added Gabriel Jesus, Zinchenko, and Saliba, which on paper is not a massive increase in quality, and then pushed for the title.

United performed worse than 5th but it has also been claimed by many that this is not becuase of squad quality but because players were unavailable due to injury. A more available 'squad' finished 3rd two seasons ago.

There is big difference between the 2. Arsenal was in an upward trajectory having finished 8th and 8th, however they had the right profile players.

The United that finished 3rd and the one last season had our key players underperforming. Casemiro, Varane and Rashford were all immense in that top3 finish. All of them fell off last season. So in reality, it's like us losing 3 key players on top of an injury crissis, which for whatever reason gets overlooked on here.

So before we get back to the top 3, we need to replace the contributions those 3 made in that season.

Edit: forgot to add Martinez and Shaw who were both crucial for our defensive stability as well as our buildup from the back. So in reality we missed 5 key players last season hence the league position.

As soon as Ineos decided they were happy to keep him after an outstandingly poor season, they set the standards. They then doubled down on it with a new contract. They then backed that up with looking to hire more dutch coaches to help him do his job. They've well and truly insulated our bald genius into the club, made him bigger than any manager since Sir Alex.

I think they realised we're shopping in the lower tier of players and won't be challenging for years to come, so they realised he's a manager that is happy with that. I suspect this is probably why the talks with Tuchel fell apart, as he wouldn't accept this sort of role. For Ten Hag though, he can blame everything and everyone else until he's blue in the face now, as he's not responsible for anything anymore. He's untouchable.

Get a grip mate. INEOS did the only right thing in the current. They kept the coach and his staff in a period of transition as not to cause too much disruption in an already chaotic takeover situation.

For once we are being run as a club. We identify multiple targets, we make bids, we negotiate and if we can't get a deal, we move one. The fact that we're being linked with past it players on enormous wages is a good indication that INEOS has changed our transfer strategy. But for whatever reason that is viewed as targeting lower tier players. Can't please the fans, can you? We either sign overpriced mercenaries or lower tier players.

Sir Alex targeted plenty of "lower tier" players that ended up being good for the club: the likes of Vidic, Evra, Chicharito, Carrick, Nani, etc He himself said that he was looking at their personality first, before ability comes into play. ETH was doing the same thing. Say what you will about his signings, but you can't accuse them of being lazy, unmotivated, overpaid, etc You know, the usual monikers that follow most of our signings in the post SAF era. With INEOS overseeing the football matters, we can finally target some players who have both: good personality and some under the radar abilities.

The new contract that you so lament is just an amended version of his current contract with the stipulation that ETH will surrender most of his control on the footballing side, something most fans would agree is a positive development.


And as for Tuchel? What the feck did that guy do that he is considered some sort of Messiah on here? Won the CL as interim? So did DiMateo. Do we want to bring him here as well? If it were Klopp or Ancelotti, I'd be on board with you. But that guy is an even bigger fraud than ETH. Every single club he's been too, he's always failed to deliver on his job. Last thing we need is a poor man's Conte(who himself is a walmart version of Mourinho) running this team and throwing his toys out of the pram when things don't go his way.

 

[romufc]

1. No
2. Liverpool no but Arsenal were overhauling their football director roles while Arteta was there in the aftermath of the failed Pepe signing.

Now answer my question

1. Did EtH have a better squad when joining United than Klopp and Arteta did when they joined Liverpool and Arsenal?
2. Did he spend more money on transfers than both and get to bring in players he’d previously worked with?

It’s an easy to only highlight the areas where the others benefitted but he walked into an easier job than they did.

1. So Arsenal overhauled their director roles when Arteta was appointed and it took them 2 seasons to play well after that? Correct?

To answer your questions.
1. No he did not. EtH did not have a better squad. Maybe more expensive, but not better. its funny you will mention players like Rashford, Bruno but I have seen numerous times you have said they are not good enough and would sell.
2. Liverpool spend 355m and Arsenal 250m

Right, talking about walking into an easier job, did Ten Hag walk into a job where we finished 6th the season before?

Klopp walked into a job where Liverpool finished 2nd season before.
Arteta walked into a job where Arsenal finished 5th and EL final.

Now let me ask you... Did Klopp and Arteta win 2 trophies in 2 seasons?

 

[Revan]

Even if the football doesn't improve, I suspect simply having players like Shaw and Martinez available, plus some recruits should see us in a decent position.

I feel like everyone is forgetting that the coaching options available were pretty crap. I don't believe Ineos were necessarily wrong for sticking to their guns that the system needed to be improved first before judging the manager completely, even if I don't like ETH.

First bold: We played pretty crap when they were available too. Furthermore, they might not be available again considering that both, Shaw especially are injury prone. Should we again be content with being shit cause Shaw and Martinez are not available. I also suspect that no amount of players being available will make us play good as long as ten Hag plays suicide football without a midfield. Heck, we actually looked decent in those very few games (e.g., City in FA Cup) where he somehow realized that you need a midfield.

Second bold: I do not buy it for a moment. There were many good managers who might have been tempted (Tuchel, Flick, Nagelsmann, De Zerbi, Pocchettino, Iraola, Motta, Michel to name a few). Unless people want Pep, Klopp or Ancelotti, which we will never get, I do not expect times where the manager market will be much better.

 

[OsloRed]

First bold: We played pretty crap when they were available too. Furthermore, they might not be available again considering that both, Shaw especially are injury prone. Should we again be content with being shit cause Shaw and Martinez are not available. I also suspect that no amount of players being available will make us play good as long as ten Hag plays suicide football without a midfield. Heck, we actually looked decent in those very few games (e.g., City in FA Cup) where he somehow realized that you need a midfield.

Way too early to say anything about Martinez being injury-prone, especially considering the types of injuries he got last season. Shaw most definitely. We did look better when Shaw and Martinez was back for a short time until the West Ham match when Coufal fell on Martinez' knee.

 

[El Jefe]

1. So Arsenal overhauled their director roles when Arteta was appointed and it took them 2 seasons to play well after that? Correct?

To answer your questions.
1. No he did not. EtH did not have a better squad. Maybe more expensive, but not better. its funny you will mention players like Rashford, Bruno but I have seen numerous times you have said they are not good enough and would sell.
2. Liverpool spend 355m and Arsenal 250m

Right, talking about walking into an easier job, did Ten Hag walk into a job where we finished 6th the season before?

Klopp walked into a job where Liverpool finished 2nd season before.
Arteta walked into a job where Arsenal finished 5th and EL final.

Now let me ask you... Did Klopp and Arteta win 2 trophies in 2 seasons?

The bolded bits here are just laughable to be honest. Let's look at the starting line-ups on joining

Liverpool - Mignolet, Clyne, Lovren, Toure, Moreno, Milner, Can, Lallana, Coutinho, Firmino, Benteke
Arsenal - Martinez, Bellerin, Holding, D.Luiz, Tierney, Maitland-Niles, Ceballos, Xhaka, Pepe, Lacazette, Aubameyang
Man Utd - De Gea, AWB, Varane, Martinez, Shaw, Casemiro, Eriksen, Bruno, Antony, Rashford, Martial

Any objective person can see we had the strongest team by an absolute mile.

They had a much bigger gap to close to get to the top than we did. Liverpool finished 2nd two seasons before then lost Suarez and Sterling by the time Klopp joined and Sturridge was almost retired at that point. Arsenal did finish 5th in 18/19 but they had nothing about them and were on a run of finishing 5/6th three seasons running with a bleak future. We finished 2nd the year before Ole left and largely had the same squad, if not better.

I also don't care for the 2 trophies in 2 seasons point if those trophies aren't the PL or CL. Thr year on year improvement means much more to me.

 

[VP89]

You can't honestly believe what you just typed. The other poster was talking about facts, and instead you doubled down on 'knowing' something that hasn't happened yet.

Do you want to try and answer the question?

Do you think we will fix the squad in one transfer window?

Arsenal had a squad that finished 5th in the PL, added Gabriel Jesus, Zinchenko, and Saliba, which on paper is not a massive increase in quality, and then pushed for the title.

United performed worse than 5th but it has also been claimed by many that this is not becuase of squad quality but because players were unavailable due to injury. A more available 'squad' finished 3rd two seasons ago.

So two new center backs, a left back and a center forward was added off the back of the season where they actually played well. Got it.

As I said, the quality of arsenal and city's squad is out of reach in one summer, unless we had a better budget to work with. We don't have a left back that can stay fit, we have only one CB capable of playing a progressive style, we need a midfielder, we need a striker and we need a winger.

 

[romufc]

The bolded bits here are just laughable to be honest. Let's look at the starting line-ups on joining

Liverpool - Mignolet, Clyne, Lovren, Toure, Moreno, Milner, Can, Lallana, Coutinho, Firmino, Benteke
Arsenal - Martinez, Bellerin, Holding, D.Luiz, Tierney, Maitland-Niles, Ceballos, Xhaka, Pepe, Lacazette, Aubameyang
Man Utd - De Gea, AWB, Varane, Martinez, Shaw, Casemiro, Eriksen, Bruno, Antony, Rashford, Martial

Any objective person can see we had the strongest team by an absolute mile.

They had a much bigger gap to close to get to the top than we did. Liverpool finished 2nd two seasons before then lost Suarez and Sterling by the time Klopp joined and Sturridge was almost retired at that point. Arsenal did finish 5th in 18/19 but they had nothing about them and were on a run of finishing 5/6th three seasons running with a bleak future. We finished 2nd the year before Ole left and largely had the same squad, if not better.

I also don't care for the 2 trophies in 2 seasons point if those trophies aren't the PL or CL. Thr year on year improvement means much more to me.

Hold on... are you saying squad when he took over or squad after he spent 200m? You cant say he had a better squad when he took over, add 200m of signings, then in next sentence say he spent x amount... that is double counting what he spent. So it shows you are being selective for your agenda. So can you go back and adjust this to the team he took over ?

Before laughing at my post, make sure you read your own, forgetting players in other teams. Arsenal had Saliba, Ozil, Martinelli, Saka as well.

Also, you have named United players you dont rate in Bruno and Rashford... then saying they are better... Its nice to see someone who is such a hypocrite.

I mean Arsenal clearly did, they got to the EL final and we finished 6th, they 5th, so again, being hypocritical.

 

[Leftback99]

Even if the football doesn't improve, I suspect simply having players like Shaw and Martinez available, plus some recruits should see us in a decent position.

I feel like everyone is forgetting that the coaching options available were pretty crap. I don't believe Ineos were necessarily wrong for sticking to their guns that the system needed to be improved first before judging the manager completely, even if I don't like ETH.

What even is a 'decent position' now? Standards round here are rock bottom so could be anything.

The alternative coaching options available didn't have their teams performing like bottom half sides all season like Ten Hag.