Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager

[Cheimoon]

For me the more relevant thing is the club he's at now and how it has played prior to him . His concern , is how to get from that to his ideal.

The logical way ( to me ) is to look at the players on board and assess how the team score goals . We are clearly a transition side, every oppo coach highlights this .

Do we have to completely disregard that , is it even wise to do so ? or is there a way to shorten the transitions? Instead of winning it on the edge of our box and releasing Rashford ( our favoured modus operandi ) is it possible to want to stop the oppo / win the ball higher and be closer to goal ? It's still a transition ? Klopps best Liverpool , did exactly that . Were they a possession side? Not strictly , but they played in the opponents half more than their own because they won the ball higher consistently .

Vertical / direct does not mean the intention is not to have more possession . Ten hags ajax were vertical , best klopp is vertical .

The evolution of deep transition to higher transition doesn't have to include some weird period of time ( lvg ) where we knock it around the middle aimlessly .. so we can say , aah look possession . That doesn't have to be any part of it .

We can become a more dominant side by focusing on making the area the oppo can play smaller .

Actually, United did already switch to being a high-press side last season. Or anyway, for a good part of the season, the press-related stats were very good (among the league's top if I remember correctly), and much improved compared to the previous season.

How many shots will we concede in those first 6 games?

I thought football was supposed to be a fun interest. Wouldn't you rather want to look forward to hopefully a good transfer period and some positive change come the next season?

 

[stefan92]

I haven't seen much of Tuchel PR to say he turned United down. Considering he wanted to manage in the PL, it makes little sense.

Anyway, regardless of who you believe, imo if they were impressed by Tuchel, they would have sat down further and convince him.

Lets say he didn't like what United had to offer? It is one of the only PL big clubs that will take him now, I cant see City, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool taking him, so he would have known its slim pickings for a top club. Makes no sense.

Yes it's slim pickings, that's probably why Romano reported that Tuchel prefers to take a break for now. Take some time off and wait for a good offer instead of the United offer.

If we believe that we still don't know what the issues were that Tuchel had but that statement does make sense.

 

[DSG]

Point out the post.

I also challenge you write a post that isn't riddled with crazy exaggeration.

There are many posts calling out the use of the word ****. Another would be the “report” feature which wouldn’t be public.

Here’s my answer to your challenge:

Despite finishing 8th in the PL with negative GD and coming last in the CL group, Ten Hag still has support from @VP89. Fact.

Another one:

When @VP89 doesn’t like the direction of a debate he is losing, he frequently criticizes a post as exaggeration or hyperbole. It’s an under the radar technique that indirectly characterizes the poster as unhinged and allows him to discredit the poster without actually addressing the points of the post.

 

[mu4c_20le]

I mean you can keep hammering but if I keep saying I slept with Margot Robbie, doesn't mean it is true.

if you can show me any sort of proof or evidence that suggests Tuchel didn't like what they were selling, they didn't like what he had to offer.

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Manchester United failed to hire Thomas Tuchel as a replacement for Erik ten Hag because Sir Jim Ratcliffe is a cheapskate, according to Richard Keys.

“The players must be on the floor. To a man they expected Ten Hag to get the sack. What does Ratcliffe think will change? If he’d offered a proper salary I’m told Tuchel would’ve said ‘yes’. But Ratcliffe is trying to do everything on the cheap. £35m for [Jarrad] Branthwaite? He’s having a laugh and it will bite him. He’ll also have to sack Ten Hag before Christmas."

 

[hobbers]

Lets say he didn't like what United had to offer? It is one of the only PL big clubs that will take him now, I cant see City, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool taking him, so he would have known its slim pickings for a top club. Makes no sense.

Why would any manager want to sign up for the scrutiny and reputational risk at United, but this time with very little money to spend, with far less control than previous managers were given, and to have the squad building dictated to them by a DoF who might not be in the job for another year?

“The players must be on the floor. To a man they expected Ten Hag to get the sack. What does Ratcliffe think will change? If he’d offered a proper salary I’m told Tuchel would’ve said ‘yes’. But Ratcliffe is trying to do everything on the cheap. £35m for [Jarrad] Branthwaite? He’s having a laugh and it will bite him. He’ll also have to sack Ten Hag before Christmas."

Even worse than I thought if Tuchel rejected Ineos purely over money and them being cheapskates.

 

[romufc]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Manchester United failed to hire Thomas Tuchel as a replacement for Erik ten Hag because Sir Jim Ratcliffe is a cheapskate, according to Richard Keys.

“The players must be on the floor. To a man they expected Ten Hag to get the sack. What does Ratcliffe think will change? If he’d offered a proper salary I’m told Tuchel would’ve said ‘yes’. But Ratcliffe is trying to do everything on the cheap. £35m for [Jarrad] Branthwaite? He’s having a laugh and it will bite him. He’ll also have to sack Ten Hag before Christmas."

I mean you are posting Richard Keys to me, he hates United and Ten Hag so I wonder why his article will be biased?

 

[DSG]

Get a grip. Nobody's feelings are hurt. It's just not conducive to debate.

Oh, wait… Are we now policing words, sentences and phrases that aren’t conducive to debate?!!?

‘That’s about 2/3 of this thread, mate.

 

[moses]

Oh, wait… Are we now policing words, sentences and phrases that aren’t conducive to debate?!!?

‘That’s about 2/3 of this thread, mate.

Yeah, pissing in the wind I know, so just try to do better. Please.

 

[romufc]

Why would any manager want to sign up for the scrutiny and reputational risk at United, but this time with very little money to spend, with far less control than previous managers were given, and to have the squad building dictated to them by a DoF who might not be in the job for another year?

That just tells you all you need to know about Tuchel then, he is unwilling to take risk or he does not back himself to be a top manager.

That's why.

Tuchel has previously stated at Chelsea all he wants to do is coach, so this notion that less control is something he was against doesnt wash with me.. try again.

If what you say is the case, then I am glad we stayed away from a manager who cannot back himself to lift the club. Reputational damage? Tuchel's reputation is at all time low at the moment, no big club wants to touch him.

Barca, Liverpool, Chelsea, Juve have all hired new managers and Tuchel was in the shortlist of none of them. His reputation as low as it gets.

 

[Lyng]

I mean you are posting Richard Keys to me, he hates United and Ten Hag so I wonder why his article will be biased?

It's impossible to know what actually happened.
Personally I was not expecting us to agree with Tuchel when I heard Jim took the meeting himself.
We desperately need proper football people to take over.

 

[VP89]

There are many posts calling out the use of the word ****. Another would be the “report” feature which wouldn’t be public.

Here’s my answer to your challenge:

Despite finishing 8th in the PL with negative GD and coming last in the CL group, Ten Hag still has support from @VP89. Fact.

Another one:

When @VP89 doesn’t like the direction of a debate he is losing, he frequently criticizes a post as exaggeration or hyperbole. It’s an under the radar technique that indirectly characterizes the poster as unhinged and allows him to discredit the poster without actually addressing the points of the post.

Says the guy who resorted to calling any school of thought as different to his own as *******. Here's a top - don't name call others as being part of a c u lt just because they have a different opinion.

Brilliant stuff, its actually impressive how much you lack self awareness.

 

[VP89]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Manchester United failed to hire Thomas Tuchel as a replacement for Erik ten Hag because Sir Jim Ratcliffe is a cheapskate, according to Richard Keys.

“The players must be on the floor. To a man they expected Ten Hag to get the sack. What does Ratcliffe think will change? If he’d offered a proper salary I’m told Tuchel would’ve said ‘yes’. But Ratcliffe is trying to do everything on the cheap. £35m for [Jarrad] Branthwaite? He’s having a laugh and it will bite him. He’ll also have to sack Ten Hag before Christmas."

No way did you just rest your case on Richard Keyes

 

[TsuWave]

So you want to replace ETH with managers you consider in the same tier... in order to start a rebuild all over again? Make it make sense. As far as league standings go, the French and German leagues might be richer, but they are not more competitive, so your argument is bonkers. Winning a title with Ajax is much, much harder (even though they are generally speaking the club with most resources in the division) than winning a title with PSG or Bayern in their respective leagues. Come on, at least you have to admit that if not anything else.

Being in the same general tier of manager and an upgrade aren't mutually exclusive things - and I don't get why this would be confusing to anyone.

Again, both Ligue Un and Bundesliga rank higher in my estimations than Eredivisie. I don't know how I can establish this in a manner that allows you to peacefully move on?

Is he underperforming?

Yes, contextually - this is a personal opinion. One shared by some.

The club engaged in a process that suggested they seemingly weren't happy with what has been produced, but ultimately, Ten Hag is here to stay, which translates to the club being happy enough to stick with him.

No, he wasn't. In fact people were even claiming he wouldn't hack it in the PL. His stock was absolutely not that high after his last season with Dortmund.

Me: Klopp was more accomplished than Ten Hag by the time he left Dortmund.
You: No he wasn't. People were claiming xyz. His stock wasn't really high because of his last season with Dortmund

Read the above, slowly. Are we speaking about the same thing? Do you think you replied to what I said? So that you don't go drift off again - Klopp was more accomplished than Ten Hag by the time he left Dortmund.

You're the type of guy that watched Barcelona dominate Chelsea for 180 minutes and claims that Chelsea were the better team because they managed to nick a lucky goal with a scoreline of 1-0. No, stats don't paint the full picture, they never have and it's incredibly short-sighted to just rely on them.

Another random paragraph with no basis in reality. What are you doing? Even more hilarious because "2 trophies" has been one of the pillars you've used to prop up Ten Hag in almost all your posts. United is a poor team that won cups.

In any case, Ten Hag presided over our worst ever prem campaign. It is what it is.

 

[Kirk lazarus]

QUOTE="Cheimoon, post: 32077597, member: 119798"]
Actually, United did already switch to being a high-press side last season. Or anyway, for a good part of the season, the press-related stats were very good (among the league's top if I remember correctly), and much improved compared to the previous season.

[/QUOTE]

Yes , I saw something about that , it's a positive that I feel was ignored , largely because the co - ordination and bravery to back it up from behind was not quite there .

I remember Ralf mentioning the press being similar to being pregnant , there is no half pregnant , it's something that only works with full commitment .

To do it , some of the existing players will have to come out of their comfort /safe zones . I think they can do it in training against their pals at 75% speed and intensity, but I feel on matchday human nature takes over and they err back .

Thanks for the like .

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Manchester United failed to hire Thomas Tuchel as a replacement for Erik ten Hag because Sir Jim Ratcliffe is a cheapskate, according to Richard Keys.

“The players must be on the floor. To a man they expected Ten Hag to get the sack. What does Ratcliffe think will change? If he’d offered a proper salary I’m told Tuchel would’ve said ‘yes’. But Ratcliffe is trying to do everything on the cheap. £35m for [Jarrad] Branthwaite? He’s having a laugh and it will bite him. He’ll also have to sack Ten Hag before Christmas."

That octopus that used to predict matches has more credibility on football than Richard Keys. A truly sh*t presenter , talks absolute nonsense and who was too much for even a Rupert Murdoch channel which says a lot.

 

[Sarni]

No way did you just rest your case on Richard Keyes

The whole thing does not make any sense whatsoever. Manager’s salaries are a fraction of club’s running costs and owners won’t make decisions they don’t believe are favorable for the club based on such amounts.

It’s clear they interviewed Tuchel and de Zerbi, as well as had a conversation with ten Hag. They found ten Hag’s vision most compelling and decided to invest in it, and turned down the other two. I do not for a second believe Marseille could afford de Zerbi but we couldn’t.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

I doubt Richard Keys of all people has the inside scoop on the Tuchel discussions

 

[Hughie77]

Richard keys?? As relevant as Micah Richards is both bitter and biased in there opinions of late..

There will be more and more bullshit and bollocks spoken this season because ETH has kept his job .. when most though and some campaigned and tried to influence the board to sack him? Those are in the media it hasn't worked..
I honestly like most thought he was gone with all the backroom changes they have made.
Now he's staying back him get the right players in and see a continuity in our play that was lacking last season.. the negativity from those who are biased will not change....

 

[Cheimoon]

Yes , I saw something about that , it's a positive that I feel was ignored , largely because the co - ordination and bravery to back it up from behind was not quite there .

I remember Ralf mentioning the press being similar to being pregnant , there is no half pregnant , it's something that only works with full commitment .

To do it , some of the existing players will have to come out of their comfort /safe zones . I think they can do it in training against their pals at 75% speed and intensity, but I feel on matchday human nature takes over and they err back .

Thanks for the like .

Yeah, there were obviously major issues elsewhere - not just in defense and overall cohesion across the pitch, but I think also in creating something out of high-press turnovers (meaning successful pressing didn't deliver much), and probably much more. But the press itself was working well at the time, and that's definitely a positive to build upon.

 

[JonIrenicus]

Being in the same general tier of manager and an upgrade aren't mutually exclusive things - and I don't get why this would be confusing to anyone.

Again, both Ligue Un and Bundesliga rank higher in my estimations than Eredivisie. I don't know how I can establish this in a manner that allows you to peacefully move on?

An upgrade should be someone you believe would be a huge improvement over what you currently have, not a slight improvement if that. As an example, that would be like sacking Tuchel to bring Conte in. Is Conte the better manager? Yes. Would he be worth it? No.

As far as leagues go, again... I don't even understand what your 'estimations' are. In what way do they rank higher in the Eredevisie and why would that even matter? Do they have more money? Yes. Are they more competitive? No. It's as simple as that.

Yes, contextually - this is a personal opinion. One shared by some.

The club engaged in a process that suggested they seemingly weren't happy with what has been produced, but ultimately, Ten Hag is here to stay, which translates to the club being happy enough to stick with him.

Ultimately the club was smart and decided to do the right thing and not to indulge in short-sightedness.

Me: Klopp was more accomplished than Ten Hag by the time he left Dortmund.
You: No he wasn't. People were claiming xyz. His stock wasn't really high because of his last season with Dortmund

Read the above, slowly. Are we speaking about the same thing? Do you think you replied to what I said? So that you don't go drift off again - Klopp was more accomplished than Ten Hag by the time he left Dortmund.

First, you seem to keep reading whatever you want instead of whatever I type. I said that ETH is in a similar position to Klopp, not whether he is more accomplished or less. As far as Klopp's accomplishments prior to joining Liverpool. He won 2 league titles with Dortmund and went to a CL final. Very impressive, but Bayern weren't even remotely the same juggernaut they were as they are now, trading the league titles more often than not. His final season at Dortmund ended in a little bit of a disaster. His work at Mainz was also great, but also ended similarly on a sour note with Mainz eventually getting relegated and failing to achieve a promotion before Klopp decided to depart.

In contrast, ETH led a woeful Utrecht to a top 5 and top 4 finish, as well as a KNVB cup final which he lost. He led an Ajax team that hadn't won the league for 4 years into 4 consecutive titles. Ajax had never won the title since. They also performed admirably in Europe, reaching a semi-final by complete domination in most of their matches and arguably deserved to reach the final. ETH teams never collapsed like Klopp's when he was there.

No, Klopp's CV certainly isn't better prior to Liverpool (and I do consider him the best manager currently btw). I'm not arguing it's worse or anything, but they were in a similar position. Just form accomplishments perspective, Klopp doesn't have a better CV prior to the Liverpool job. It's also funny because I thought you were all about stats, but I guess stats don't matter here.

Another random paragraph with no basis in reality. What are you doing? Even more hilarious because "2 trophies" has been one of the pillars you've used to prop up Ten Hag in almost all your posts. United is a poor team that won cups.

In any case, Ten Hag presided over our worst ever prem campaign. It is what it is.

You're the one who keeps whining about stats being the be all end all. I gave you an example, now it's suddenly not accurate and I'm delusional. What are you even trying to say at this point? Do stats matter or not? If just looking at a spreadsheet is all there it is to things, is our treble team like our 5th worst team or something? I guess our 2012-2013 team was miles better given how much more points they got. Honestly at this point you're literally just arguing for the sake of arguing. You have absolutely zero arguments yet you persist because you don't want to admit you're wrong. If you want to continue spouting last season was our worst season, you're free to do so, of course. But call it what it is - you don't like ETH and you want him sacked for your own personal reasons, not because of "facts" like you want to tout your arguments as. Maybe you don't believe he can turn it around, maybe you don't rate him highly, whatever. Everyone is allowed to an opinion, I have no problem with that. But get off your high horse.

 

[moses]

Says the guy who resorted to calling any school of thought as different to his own as *******. Here's a top - don't name call others as being part of a c u lt just because they have a different opinion.

Brilliant stuff, its actually impressive how much you lack self awareness.

Exactly, just argue the points, trying to make any conversation so binary is just ruining the discussion.

There are no in or out 'crews'. Everyone has varying reasons for their viewpoint.

 

[roonster09]

It’s ancient history now so no new thread is necessary. But it would interesting to know, which is impossible because here we are, whether ten Hag would still have his job if the Coventry goal were allowed to stand by virtue of a shoelace not being an element that’s deemed offside. Probably not.

Fine margins.

Offside is offside, same rule for everyone. Only controversial decision in that game was penalty, which was just a stupid decision.

EtH should have been sacked irrespective of that cup win but just because you want him sacked doesn't mean we have to rewrite history.

 

[GaryLifo]

Bald is best.

Tuchel looks like Albert Steptoe

 

[NLunited]

Mate, I just said there were a lot of problems that Ten Hag can’t be blamed for…. Seems pretty nuanced to me.

If you really look at the history of the Ten Hag discussion on this thread, most of the Caf, including myself, were optimistic that Ten Hag could deliver the goods this season. However, as we fell out of the CL, last in our group, conceding 15 goals, and didn’t look much better in the league, there was a rising group that were uncomfortable with his tactics.

The Ten Hag inners were quick to defend with many excuses, some valid. But even the vociferous ones like yourself were pretty silent after bad results. After the Palace 4-0 drubbing, almost all conceded that whatever Ten Hag was trying to do wasn’t working.

If the reports are true, that was when Wilcox stepped in and told the coaching staff that we needed to revert to a more conservative approach for the last few matches. And, lo and behold, we got some results.

I’ve read all of the reporting / post mortem and to me, it really didn’t change my opinion on Ten Hag. The reports of players ignoring his instructions were pretty isolated and, perhaps with the exception of Ronaldo, not really verifiable. The bad cop, bad cop approach to players like Casemiro and Varane was, if you ask me, a bit ignorant on Ten Hag’s part. To me, he came off as a poor communicator and tactician wanting to wield power with an iron fist. It’s hard to execute tactics if you don’t understand them…

You can read the reports through an ‘in” or “out” prism and not change your opinion on Ten Hag. Clearly, there was smoke because we started discussions with several managers before deciding to stick with Ten Hag.

The great thing about this is that we’ll find out eventually if Ten Hag can get us back to competing, no, wait, winning major titles like the CL and the league.

You are obviously not one of them.

Quiet after bad defeats? Absolutely, after we lose I‘m not in the mood to go online and discuss. Usually a few days later.

The Wilcox bit was reported by Jamie Jackson and makes no sense. You choose to believe it, I think it is bollocks. Those tactics have been used before against certain opponents.

If overpaid players can‘t understand the tactics, after they have been repeated over and over (as reported), that‘s a problem. Would Guardiola dumb his tactics down in that situation? No.

We can agree the season was shiit, and maybe that it was not mostly Ten Hag‘s failure. There are too many extenuating circumstances.

CL and PL title are still far away. We will see at the end of the transfer window what we can realistically aim for.

My hopes are attractive football, a good run in Europea league and lots of goals.

 

[GaryLifo]

Looking forward to the humble pie when ten Hag smashes it next season

 

[stevoc]

Than you must be living in lala land then.

When you have people like Ragnick come out and say that the players openly disobey his instructions and refuse to press and then he advocates for an open heart surgery. When people like Ole say that he walked in an already established player power structure of players putting in the minimal effort in order to earn a wage who shrank at the possibility of becoming a captain, hence him giving it to an outsider(i.e. Maguire). Or when Ronaldo has said on multiple times that a lot of his team mates lack ambition and called them out on it. Or when ETH is saying in multiple post match conferences that players aren't following his instructions. All of these people are crazy conspiracy theorists, since there is no such thing as a rotten culture at Man United according to you.

And thanks to Woodward's/Arnold's economics where players get contract extensions no matter how poorly the perform, that also clearly doesn't affect dressing room morale. Or the fact that we overpay on wages even for average players, that also doesn't set a bad precedent amongst our players. Tis just the manager's fault.

If by lala land you mean the present then yes mate. Rangnick, Ronaldo and Ole are long gone so are the vast majority of the players who played with or under them.

Can you give me a list of the problem players?

I will say this, if there were a culture problem at United, after Ten Hag being in charge for 2 years and only around 10 players left from when he took over then that would reflect very poorly on him and his leadership abillities. But I don't believe there is a culture problem, the 'bad eggs' like Ronaldo and Sancho are gone. The players seem to play for him even when things were bad and they seem a generally happy bunch. Sure morale and confidence got low at points last season but that's to be expected with results we were getting.

And out of curiosity, since a lot of people tell me that we need to have similar standards to Real Madrid. How long do you think they would put up with his antics? Disinterested body language, strolling around the pitch? How long would Pep put up with the likes of Rashford? Or Klopp? That guy in his high pressing system would eat him alive. Or do you think Sir Alex would be ok with the way Rashford plays? You know, the guy that booted out Beckham for losing his focus.

How long would Real Madrid have tolerated Ten Hag or Solskjaer or Moyes?

Our standards have been in the shitter for a decade.

Or are you one of those people who think the manager hAs tOO MoTivaTe the players for them to put in the minimum effort required to be a top athlete that represents Manchester United.

Not necessarily no.

 

[Lyng]

Looking forward to the humble pie when ten Hag smashes it next season

If that happens everyone will be happy. I am firmly Ten Hag out, but given he is keeping his job, I desperately want him to prove me wrong.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Richard keys?? As relevant as Micah Richards is both bitter and biased in there opinions of late..

There will be more and more bullshit and bollocks spoken this season because ETH has kept his job .. when most though and some campaigned and tried to influence the board to sack him? Those are in the media it hasn't worked..
I honestly like most thought he was gone with all the backroom changes they have made.
Now he's staying back him get the right players in and see a continuity in our play that was lacking last season.. the negativity from those who are biased will not change....

At least Micah Richards seems a nice bloke. Keys is a creepy slimeball.

 

[Lewnited]

If that happens everyone will be happy. I am firmly Ten Hag out, but given he is keeping his job, I desperately want him to prove me wrong.

Agreed. I think we'll be a ways off the top while he's here. But if he proves me wrong I'll happily eat humble pie until I can no longer move

 

[golden_blunder]

Looking forward to the humble pie when ten Hag smashes it next season

Smashes tellies up and down the country?

joking. Out of curiosity what would make you turn on him? When? What’s your redlines?

 

[Nuel]

Last year we got 5 points in our first 5 comparable fixtures (excluding Southampton as they weren’t in the league and I think they are better than relegated teams - we drew against them the last time we played them at OT in PL), so 6 points would not be tragic. Bottom line is we play Liverpool and Spurs, as well as travel to Brighton and Palace in our first 6 games, on top of tricky games against Fulham and Southampton. People should not be expecting miracles.

We've really come a long way. We have no standards anymore. We can't get better by lowering expectations. This slippery slope began when we decided top 4 was good enough to secure a manager's job.

 

[711]

If that happens everyone will be happy. I am firmly Ten Hag out, but given he is keeping his job, I desperately want him to prove me wrong.

Absolutely.

 

[Juicy Juiced]

Looking forward to the humble pie when ten Hag smashes it next season

I would eat bag of shit if we challenge for the title let alone humble lie.

 

[TsuWave]

An upgrade should be someone you believe would be a huge improvement over what you currently have

An upgrade is anything that produces better results. A manager of generally the same tier being an upgrade is not where the space time continuum will break.

Ultimately the club was smart and decided to do the right thing and not to indulge in short-sightedness.

Firstly, we don't know the reasons as to why they've decided to stick with Ten Hag. Could be that they genuinely believe he's the best for the club at the moment, could be monetary reasons, etc. Secondly, and more importantly, the supposed wisdom/smart insight in this decision is yet to be corroborated. We won't have a verdict for at least another season.

Ultimately, my statement was that yes, underperforming managers should be sacked. You then asked if Ten Hag is underperforming, to which I replied with my opinion that he is and simply pointed to the divide in the fanbase and more importantly the lengthy process the club engaged in to procure a replacement

First, you seem to keep reading whatever you want instead of whatever I type. I said that ETH is in a similar position to Klopp, not whether he is more accomplished or less.

Your statement was - "I would argue Ten Hag is at the position Klopp was when he left Dortmund."

I replied - You'd be wrong

You then said - "when Klopp left Dortmund they finished 9th after a disastrous season. His stock wasn't at an all time highest and many people were saying he was gonna flop in England."

To which I replied - by the time Klopp left Dortmund he was already one of the best managers in the world and much more accomplished than Ten Hag

Of course there were people that didn't think he'd do well, but they're not at the same position because Klopp had a lot more juice by being more accomplished. It's not an absurdity that more accomplished people are given the benefit of the doubt/more time/patience and leeway than those with less. Ten Hag has barely kept his job, if you think he'll survive another one of these, then-

As far as Klopp's accomplishments prior to joining Liverpool.

Yeah, I'm not about to engage nor read an exercise in which you try to pretend whatever Ten Hag did had him up there with post-Dortmund Klopp. Make a new thread and make a poll or ask in this thread. If people agree with you then that's that. I'm not making a commitment to that craziness.

It's also funny because I thought you were all about stats, but I guess stats don't matter here.

As previously mentioned, you seem to have conversations with yourself a lot - I never said I'm all about stats to you. You just up and fabricated that. I said Ten Hag has reigned over our worst prem campaign ever. You said that's a ridiculous statement and I simply presented you the verifiable evidence. Any assumptions you've made about me from there are your damage, not mine.

You're the one who keeps whining about stats being the be all end all.

More fanfiction. I made a simple, factual and verifiable statement. Ten Hag has presided over our worst prem campaign ever. You've been wrestling with it since.

 

[Giggsy13]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Manchester United failed to hire Thomas Tuchel as a replacement for Erik ten Hag because Sir Jim Ratcliffe is a cheapskate, according to Richard Keys.

“The players must be on the floor. To a man they expected Ten Hag to get the sack. What does Ratcliffe think will change? If he’d offered a proper salary I’m told Tuchel would’ve said ‘yes’. But Ratcliffe is trying to do everything on the cheap. £35m for [Jarrad] Branthwaite? He’s having a laugh and it will bite him. He’ll also have to sack Ten Hag before Christmas."

No one gives a feck what Richard keys thinks.

 

[DSG]

Says the guy who resorted to calling any school of thought as different to his own as *******. Here's a top - don't name call others as being part of a c u lt just because they have a different opinion.

Brilliant stuff, its actually impressive how much you lack self awareness.

You’ve pretty much been wrong in every stance you’ve taken, so I’ll take that as a compliment.

 

[GaryLifo]

Smashes tellies up and down the country?

joking. Out of curiosity what would make you turn on him? When? What’s your redlines?

If he doesn't do better in the league this season then I'm not going to cry if he's fired. I just think he won two trophies under a less than optimal structure and I want to see how he does with more focus on just coaching the team with others running the recruitment.

I genuinely like him and I think Ineos are playing it well in keeping him as it buys them time if things go south. Had they got a new guy in and it went badly the pressure is on them. If ten Hag fails next season they still have the option of saying, we gave the guy that won the cup a fair go, but now we go with our man.

 

[erikcred]

They also performed admirably in Europe, reaching a semi-final by complete domination in most of their matches and arguably deserved to reach the final. ETH teams never collapsed like Klopp's when he was there.

Never?

 

[VP89]

You’ve pretty much been wrong in every stance you’ve taken, so I’ll take that as a compliment.

Enjoy next season mate, try to support the club if you can.

 

[Rolaholic]

We've really come a long way. We have no standards anymore. We can't get better by lowering expectations. This slippery slope began when we decided top 4 was good enough to secure a manager's job.

I really read that 6 points out of a possible 18 from the opening 6 matches wouldn't be tragic

The bar is the floor these days and it feels like many fans are more interested in lowering expectations rather than hoping for improvement from our worst league and European campaign in recent history.

 

[TheGame]

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