Erik ten Hag | Currently unemployed

TheRedHearted said:
Well he had the right idea in the beginning, and instead he just chose not to adapt to injury issues and mid game management. He became rigid and made excuses. He wanted to make us what his Ajax team was, compact and dangerous. Didn’t work
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Which idea of his was "right"? He played traditional 4231 majority of first season, then in 2nd part of the season he started experimenting with Sabitzer as second #10, and in second season went full ballistic with this ridiculous 415 formation. Then in 3rd season went back to something similar to what got him success in first season but both him and the owners knew he is just a temp here.

You can't ignore the injuries, but even with a fit squad Ten Hag "system" looked like a swiss cheese and even most of the Cafe saw this. And yet, he kept going. All of his ideas were wrong and that's what got him sacked.

Oscar Bonavena said:
C'mon mate, Erik knew Antony inside-out and back-to-front from Ajax. Are you telling me no one from the club asked him "is this guy worth 80 million quid?". I have absolutely no doubt Erik's say-so could have had that transfer pulled at any time.
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Ridiculous isn't it? Another way to look at it was that he was given 80m to sign a winger and he actually thought Antony is the one to go for.
 
Oscar Bonavena said:
C'mon mate, Erik knew Antony inside-out and back-to-front from Ajax. Are you telling me no one from the club asked him "is this guy worth 80 million quid?". I have absolutely no doubt Erik's say-so could have had that transfer pulled at any time.
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Antony was available for much cheaper earlier that summer. United being united left it too late and Ajax charged premium.

In what word is that ten hags fault?
 
Oscar Bonavena said:
C'mon mate, Erik knew Antony inside-out and back-to-front from Ajax. Are you telling me no one from the club asked him "is this guy worth 80 million quid?". I have absolutely no doubt Erik's say-so could have had that transfer pulled at any time.
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There is a point where he could have said thats too much for him. Thats one of my gripes with him, there is no way the club didnt update him about the details. Unless it truly is amateur hour at United there must have been conversations about potential costs when discussing transfer targets.
 
The problem isn't about how much he allowed us to pay for Antony.

The problem is that he wanted him at all. at 30m it wouldn't have been as bad - but it would still have been a bad deal. He simply should never have wanted him.
 
SalfordRed18 said:
Antony was available for much cheaper earlier that summer. United being united left it too late and Ajax charged premium.

In what word is that ten hags fault?
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You'd think that once we found 80m to spend for an attacker, there were many more options right?
Clearly ETH told the club he only wanted Antony and he never pulled the plug on the transfer. I find it ridiculous to think this one is not on ETH.

Also this:
flappyjay said:
There is a point where he could have said thats too much for him. Thats one of my gripes with him, there is no way the club didnt update him about the details. Unless it truly is amateur hour at United there must have been conversations about potential costs when discussing transfer targets.
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VP89 said:
Or he can wait for a Kompany implosion at Bayern.
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Bayern are probably already looking at him. Ancelotti will be gone from Madrid at the end of season and ETH should be near top of their list too, and there’s Barca who have been struggling under Flick recently. Not to mention Pep’s debacle at City. There are many top jobs that could be available soon.
 
Sarni said:
Bayern are probably already looking at him. Ancelotti will be gone from Madrid at the end of season and ETH should be near top of their list too, and there’s Barca who have been struggling under Flick recently. Not to mention Pep’s debacle at City. There are many top jobs that could be available soon.
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I am rooting for City in that race, although seeing him at Real Madrid would also be interesting.
 
Sarni said:
Bayern are probably already looking at him. Ancelotti will be gone from Madrid at the end of season and ETH should be near top of their list too, and there’s Barca who have been struggling under Flick recently. Not to mention Pep’s debacle at City. There are many top jobs that could be available soon.
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:lol: :lol: :lol:
 
Borys said:
You'd think that once we found 80m to spend for an attacker, there were many more options right?
Clearly ETH told the club he only wanted Antony and he never pulled the plug on the transfer. I find it ridiculous to think this one is not on ETH.

Also this:
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No, united pre takeover was notoriously incompetent. So no I wouldn't be surprised at all if no one thought up genuine alternatives.

It's on the club to negotiate a good deal. If the deal is bad it's on the club, not ten hag. It's just a stick to bash him with when it's nothing really to do with him.
 
Borys said:
I am rooting for City in that race, although seeing him at Real Madrid would also be interesting.
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I want him at all this jobs simultaneously. Or at least Bayern, Real and City. Think he's capable of succeeding at managing 3 teams in 3 different leagues at the same time.
 
TheRedHearted said:
Well he had the right idea in the beginning, and instead he just chose not to adapt to injury issues and mid game management. He became rigid and made excuses. He wanted to make us what his Ajax team was, compact and dangerous. Didn’t work
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Can't say I agree with anything you put here really. His original idea got us spanked in his first two games, then he basically just went back to how we played under Ole for the remainder of his first year. I'm also not sure what makes you think he wanted us compact considering what we saw on the pitch was the exact opposite. It's not like he just wasn't able to get us compact; basically every change he made expressly made us more open than we'd been before. Our defensive line dropped deeper under him than it was under Ole, our midfield became more open as he only played one central midfielder, and he had the five attackers push up high.
 
SalfordRed18 said:
No, united pre takeover was notoriously incompetent. So no I wouldn't be surprised at all if no one thought up genuine alternatives.

It's on the club to negotiate a good deal. If the deal is bad it's on the club, not ten hag. It's just a stick to bash him with when it's nothing really to do with him.
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Antony deal had nothing to do with Ten Hag? Or Antony pricetag had nothing to do with Ten Hag?
You think Ten Hag was informed on the pricetag from the media, and had no chance to stop this going through, let alone pick another player for that 80m?

We've signed an obscene number of players connected to Ten Hag, and you think Antony deal had "nothing to do" with Ten Hag?
 
I expect Ten Hag will pick up an exciting role and do quite well.

He wasn’t the right man here and folk on either side of the debate would do well to acknowledge that and move on.
 
crossy1686 said:
There’s no way Bayern will touch him. They were talking to him last season until they saw us get battered of Palace. They pulled the plug pretty quick after that.
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They will definitely look at him. Hes a good coach, ex Bayern and still respected. Hes a German speaker too which is what theyre quite insistent on for targets.
 
VP89 said:
They will definitely look at him. Hes a good coach, ex Bayern and still respected. Hes a German speaker too which is what theyre quite insistent on for targets.
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The thing is: They looked at him every time they needed a new manager in the last decade. And then looked elsewhere.
 
VP89 said:
They will definitely look at him. Hes a good coach, ex Bayern and still respected. Hes a German speaker too which is what theyre quite insistent on for targets.
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They’ve already looked at him, twice, they’re probably tired of looking at him. He isn’t equipped to manage at that level, he needs a team that’s the best team in a one horse race from decades of dominance. This is the worst possible time in their history Bayern could appoint him, they’d be 8th by the end of the season.
 
crossy1686 said:
They’ve already looked at him, twice, they’re probably tired of looking at him. He isn’t equipped to manage at that level, he needs a team that’s the best team in a one horse race from decades of dominance. This is the worst possible time in their history Bayern could appoint him, they’d be 8th by the end of the season.
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He could win them a cup.
 
Borys said:
Antony deal had nothing to do with Ten Hag? Or Antony pricetag had nothing to do with Ten Hag?
You think Ten Hag was informed on the pricetag from the media, and had no chance to stop this going through, let alone pick another player for that 80m?

We've signed an obscene number of players connected to Ten Hag, and you think Antony deal had "nothing to do" with Ten Hag?
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It doesn't have anything to do with Ten Hag. United were tracking Antony well before we signed Ten Hag, as someone who watched that Ajax team occasionally I was really in favor of us signing him, so I know we were linked with signing him months before Ten Hag's name was every linked with United because I was excited by the prospect.

When we did sign Ten Hag his priority was De Jong, the club put all their effort into De Jong, I don't know if you remember a transfer window prior to this one, but United was completely incapable of working on more than one transfer at a time, be it purchase or sale, one at a time. However it doesn't appear Antony was actually on the radar for that summer until the last minute decision was made to get rid of Greenwood. The club fully intended to integrate Greenwood back into the team, Ten Hag was in favor, Ten Hag was counting on him, and then the club caved to outside pressure and decided to get rid. At which point they panicked, went to Ajax, who had sold their whole team at that point, and Ajax said do one or give us a 100 mil. It was the end of the window, United was stuck between a rock and hard place and the club decided to buy him.

You are completely delusional if you think Ten Hag sat in a board room and started naming prices, do you have any idea how anything works? The manager of a club, especially the size of United, is a cog in the machine, they have influence on these decisions of who to sign, but they have nothing to do with the money side of things. SAF isn't running things anymore, the manager could be sacked within a couple days of signing any player, so do you really think that manager is the sole factor in deciding to buy and naming the price for said player?
 
stefan92 said:
The thing is: They looked at him every time they needed a new manager in the last decade. And then looked elsewhere.
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crossy1686 said:
They’ve already looked at him, twice, they’re probably tired of looking at him. He isn’t equipped to manage at that level, he needs a team that’s the best team in a one horse race from decades of dominance. This is the worst possible time in their history Bayern could appoint him, they’d be 8th by the end of the season.
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He was in a job. Hes now unemployed.
 
Utterly De Ligt'd said:
It doesn't have anything to do with Ten Hag. United were tracking Antony well before we signed Ten Hag, as someone who watched that Ajax team occasionally I was really in favor of us signing him, so I know we were linked with signing him months before Ten Hag's name was every linked with United because I was excited by the prospect.

When we did sign Ten Hag his priority was De Jong, the club put all their effort into De Jong, I don't know if you remember a transfer window prior to this one, but United was completely incapable of working on more than one transfer at a time, be it purchase or sale, one at a time. However it doesn't appear Antony was actually on the radar for that summer until the last minute decision was made to get rid of Greenwood. The club fully intended to integrate Greenwood back into the team, Ten Hag was in favor, Ten Hag was counting on him, and then the club caved to outside pressure and decided to get rid. At which point they panicked, went to Ajax, who had sold their whole team at that point, and Ajax said do one or give us a 100 mil. It was the end of the window, United was stuck between a rock and hard place and the club decided to buy him.

You are completely delusional if you think Ten Hag sat in a board room and started naming prices, do you have any idea how anything works? The manager of a club, especially the size of United, is a cog in the machine, they have influence on these decisions of who to sign, but they have nothing to do with the money side of things. SAF isn't running things anymore, the manager could be sacked within a couple days of signing any player, so do you really think that manager is the sole factor in deciding to buy and naming the price for said player?
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Antony did have something to do with Ten Hag because they relied on his suggestions. And he challenged the club to get him.

That being said the onus is always more on the club, not the manager. They should 1) have their own targets and 2) know not to spend big money on a quantity they arent convinced by.
 
Utterly De Ligt'd said:
It doesn't have anything to do with Ten Hag. United were tracking Antony well before we signed Ten Hag, as someone who watched that Ajax team occasionally I was really in favor of us signing him, so I know we were linked with signing him months before Ten Hag's name was every linked with United because I was excited by the prospect.

When we did sign Ten Hag his priority was De Jong, the club put all their effort into De Jong, I don't know if you remember a transfer window prior to this one, but United was completely incapable of working on more than one transfer at a time, be it purchase or sale, one at a time. However it doesn't appear Antony was actually on the radar for that summer until the last minute decision was made to get rid of Greenwood. The club fully intended to integrate Greenwood back into the team, Ten Hag was in favor, Ten Hag was counting on him, and then the club caved to outside pressure and decided to get rid. At which point they panicked, went to Ajax, who had sold their whole team at that point, and Ajax said do one or give us a 100 mil. It was the end of the window, United was stuck between a rock and hard place and the club decided to buy him.

You are completely delusional if you think Ten Hag sat in a board room and started naming prices, do you have any idea how anything works? The manager of a club, especially the size of United, is a cog in the machine, they have influence on these decisions of who to sign, but they have nothing to do with the money side of things. SAF isn't running things anymore, the manager could be sacked within a couple days of signing any player, so do you really think that manager is the sole factor in deciding to buy and naming the price for said player?
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ETH is a fool for going for Antony for that price, I don't believe he was not aware the club has that budget for an offensive player. If he was aware AND STILL okeyed this transfer, then that makes him double fool.

Let's be realistic here. Do you guys believe that ETH didn't push for Antony, or that he was informed on the fee when reading "transfer gossip" section of a newspaper?

VP89 said:
Antony did have something to do with Ten Hag because they relied on his suggestions. And he challenged the club to get him.

That being said the onus is always more on the club, not the manager. They should 1) have their own targets and 2) know not to spend big money on a quantity they arent convinced by.
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That is 100% true. We were not a well run club, but that doesn't excuse Ten Hag from going for Antony, let alone at that price.
 
Borys said:
ETH is a fool for going for Antony for that price, I don't believe he was not aware the club has that budget for an offensive player. If he was aware AND STILL okeyed this transfer, then that makes him double fool.

Let's be realistic here. Do you guys believe that ETH didn't push for Antony, or that he was informed on the fee when reading "transfer gossip" section of a newspaper?
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Eric had nothing to do with negotiating the price tag, he wanted the player but it was Murtough and/or Arnold that negotiated the ridiculous fee we ended up paying.
 
Borys said:
Antony deal had nothing to do with Ten Hag? Or Antony pricetag had nothing to do with Ten Hag?
You think Ten Hag was informed on the pricetag from the media, and had no chance to stop this going through, let alone pick another player for that 80m?

We've signed an obscene number of players connected to Ten Hag, and you think Antony deal had "nothing to do" with Ten Hag?
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No, the price they paid had nothing to do with him. You're being disingenuous and at best deliberately obtuse at this point.

You're behaving as if this club has never turned down a player the manager wanted before when we used to that for fun. The club decided to pay that price, it's on the club.
 
stefan92 said:
Just like Nagelsmann or Kovac. Didn't stop Bayern approaching them instead of EtH.


That's actually a good point. Bayern did not win the cup for five seasons, including the current one.
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And the serial winner he is, he could win that cup. It's at least worth considering.
 
SalfordRed18 said:
No, the price they paid had nothing to do with him. You're being disingenuous and at best deliberately obtuse at this point.

You're behaving as if this club has never turned down a player the manager wanted before when we used to that for fun. The club decided to pay that price, it's on the club.
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At the very least he was aware of the price and sanctioned the deal knowing what it was going to cost. To pretend otherwise is silly.

You can obviously say that it's not his job to know whether £85m is a lot in football these days or not, but he should be.
 
SalfordRed18 said:
No, the price they paid had nothing to do with him. You're being disingenuous and at best deliberately obtuse at this point.

You're behaving as if this club has never turned down a player the manager wanted before when we used to that for fun. The club decided to pay that price, it's on the club.
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He never intervened when he knew the club was going to pay 80m, and then proceeded to complain about a lack of transfer funds in subsequent transfer windows. Zero sympathy.
 
SalfordRed18 said:
No, the price they paid had nothing to do with him. You're being disingenuous and at best deliberately obtuse at this point.

You're behaving as if this club has never turned down a player the manager wanted before when we used to that for fun. The club decided to pay that price, it's on the club.
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RedRocket9908 said:
Eric had nothing to do with negotiating the price tag, he wanted the player but it was Murtough and/or Arnold that negotiated the ridiculous fee we ended up paying.
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I asked you specifically if you think ETH was not INFORMED on the pricetag we are going to offer Ajax for Antony. So, how was it? Because I will not believe anyone who thinks we pushed for Antony for ANY OTHER REASON than Eric, his former manager.

It's not his fault the club negotiated a bad price. But he is equally responsible for us getting this player for that amount of money. And he is a fool if he knew that price and still thought that's the offensive player he wants for that money. He could've pulled the plug. He didn't. He truly believed he's getting a future star.
Sarni said:
At the very least he was aware of the price and sanctioned the deal knowing what it was going to cost. To pretend otherwise is silly.

You can obviously say that it's not his job to know whether £85m is a lot in football these days or not, but he should be.
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Exactly. Shocking people would argue that still.
 
RedRocket9908 said:
Eric had nothing to do with negotiating the price tag, he wanted the player but it was Murtough and/or Arnold that negotiated the ridiculous fee we ended up paying.
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This is technically correct, but also doesn’t paint the full picture.

Yes, Eric didn’t sit there negotiating exact numbers. However, himself and the rest of our staff sit together and make a transfers plan based on our available funds, FFP, what preferred targets cost etc.

There’s no way he wasn’t told that player x costs this much, and if we get him it means that we can’t afford player y. So he knowingly was willing to spend a large amount of funds on this transfer as he saw it more important than using our resources elsewhere.
 
SalfordRed18 said:
No, united pre takeover was notoriously incompetent. So no I wouldn't be surprised at all if no one thought up genuine alternatives.

It's on the club to negotiate a good deal. If the deal is bad it's on the club, not ten hag. It's just a stick to bash him with when it's nothing really to do with him.
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If we believe that ETH has totally nothing to do with Anthony's price, we have to believe that either Man Utd is a list multi-million corp somehow having incompetence of epic proportions, or communications are nearly non-existent between key members of the team.
  • It is generally known that even though we can spend, we have a restricted budget compared to the likes of Man City, PSG, and Chelsea.
  • ETH will surely be informed about this limitation as well, otherwise he would have signed everyone he ever wanted to sign in the first season rather than across a few seasons.
  • Part of the scope of signing players surely involves some budget planning. I mean, it's basic isn't it, we all need to do some form of budget planning in our day to day life on what we can buy to make sure our money last the month. Just like he can't tell INEOS to sign Mbappe whatever the cost, he surely will know that based on budget available, he can splash all of that on one single player or stretch it across a few positions.
  • Surely when the negotiated fees reach the reported 80M someone in the club must have informed ETH about the price and that is all he'll be able to sign if we agree to the price.
  • And in spite of that he determines that Anthony is a key priority and crucial to him implementing his ideas at rebuilding Man Utd in his vision.
Therefore I find it hard to believe ETH has totally nothing to do with the fees. Sure, he wasn't the one negotiating, but he must have been in the loop, on way or the other, on what the fee would be like.

And of course, the common say "Success has many parents, failure is an orphan". If Anthony had be a runaway success like Ronaldo was (Sporting version) I'm sure ETH would claim to be the major influence behind the push to sign him in spite of the fees because it would be worth it, just like he is disavowing of having anything to do with the fees just because of how abject Anthony is.
 
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