Erik ten Hag | Currently unemployed

[TrustInJanuzaj]

He’s largely correct about the new generation of players. Just look at somebody like Sancho, given all the support in the world and then throws it back in his face at the first hint of criticism. However this is the modern way so you either adapt with the times or get left behind. Mourinho has never managed to adapt to this either.

 

[Oranges038]

If he struggles to connect and motive the current generation of players perhaps he should consider changing career? There’s many things he could do where he’d deal with people his age, there’s this walking football thingy for seniors, he should give it a try

He already tried walking football at Utd..

 

[Red Star One]

He’s achieved more than 95% of football managers active today.

I mean, if we start comparing ourselves with the global footballing landscape and take into account national leagues of Luxembourg and Malta things indeed look less grim - you could easily claim Hojlund is currently better than 95% of strikers active today and Onana is a better shot stopper than 95% of people who every put on GK gloves.

 

[deef]

I can well believe in that, even in the workplace, majority of young people cannot take any criticism. I also believe it's why so many young people have mental health issues, they've been brought up in a nanny state, where actions have no consequences, where standards are never challenged. This generation of younger players are lazy and entitled, they all want instant fame and wealth, it's all they strive for, success in the form of trophies doesn't motivate them, for the majority it's just about profile and lifestyle.

I don't want to derail this thread but I think the bolded part is not true. They are out of touch with the working class struggles but they dedicate a lot of their youth to became a professional footballer.

Living in this bubble of football acadamies has a downside for the development of the personality in some aspects in my oppinion and clubs should focus more on that part. I also said that after MG that clubs should try and help young players more to get a sense of "reality"

 

[Pexbo]

I mean, if we start comparing ourselves with the global footballing landscape and take into account national leagues of Luxembourg and Malta things indeed look less grim - you could easily claim Hojlund is currently better than 95% of strikers active today and Onana is a better shot stopper than 95% of people who every put on GK gloves.

Arsenal: Mikel Arteta
- FA Cup: 2020 (Arsenal)
- FA Community Shield: 2020 (Arsenal)

Aston Villa: Unai Emery
- UEFA Europa League: 2014, 2015, 2016 (Sevilla); 2021 (Villarreal)
- Coupe de France: 2017, 2018 (Paris Saint-Germain)
- Coupe de la Ligue: 2017, 2018 (Paris Saint-Germain)
- Trophée des Champions: 2016, 2017 (Paris Saint-Germain)

Bournemouth: Andoni Iraola
- Segunda División: 2017-18 (Rayo Vallecano)

Brentford: Thomas Frank
- Danish Cup: 2011 (FC Copenhagen, as assistant manager)

Brighton & Hove Albion: Fabian Hürzeler
- No major trophies recorded.

Chelsea: Enzo Maresca
- EFL Championship: 2023-24 (Leicester City)

Crystal Palace: Oliver Glasner
- DFB-Pokal: 2021-22 (Eintracht Frankfurt)

Everton: David Moyes
- FA Community Shield: 2013 (Manchester United)

Fulham: Marco Silva
- Taça de Portugal: 2013-14 (Sporting CP)
- Supertaça Cândido de Oliveira: 2014 (Sporting CP)
- Greek Super League: 2015-16 (Olympiacos)

Ipswich Town: Kieran McKenna
- No major trophies recorded.

Leicester City: Ruud van Nistelrooy
- No major trophies recorded.

Liverpool: Arne Slot
- Eredivisie: 2022-23 (Feyenoord)

Manchester City: Pep Guardiola
- La Liga: 2008-09, 2009-10, 2010-11 (FC Barcelona)
- Copa del Rey: 2008-09, 2011-12 (FC Barcelona)
- UEFA Champions League: 2008-09, 2010-11 (FC Barcelona); 2022-23 (Manchester City)
- Bundesliga: 2013-14, 2014-15, 2015-16 (Bayern Munich)
- DFB-Pokal: 2013-14, 2015-16 (Bayern Munich)
- Premier League: 2017-18, 2018-19, 2020-21, 2021-22, 2022-23, 2023-24 (Manchester City)
- FA Cup: 2018-19 (Manchester City)
- EFL Cup: 2017-18, 2018-19, 2019-20, 2020-21 (Manchester City)
- FA Community Shield: 2018, 2019 (Manchester City)

Manchester United: Ruben Amorim
- Taça da Liga: 2019-20 (Braga); 2020-21, 2021-22 (Sporting CP)
- Primeira Liga: 2020-21 (Sporting CP)
- Supertaça Cândido de Oliveira: 2021 (Sporting CP)

Newcastle United: Eddie Howe
- EFL Championship: 2014-15 (Bournemouth)

Nottingham Forest: Nuno Espírito Santo
- EFL Championship play-offs: 2023-24 (Nottingham Forest)

Southampton: Ivan Jurić
- Serie B: 2019-20 (Hellas Verona)

Tottenham Hotspur: Ange Postecoglou
- A-League Premiership: 2010-11 (Brisbane Roar)
- A-League Championship: 2011, 2012 (Brisbane Roar)
- J1 League: 2019 (Yokohama F. Marinos)
- Scottish Premiership: 2021-22, 2022-23 (Celtic)
- Scottish League Cup: 2021-22, 2022-23 (Celtic)

West Ham United: Graham Potter
- Swedish Cup: 2016-17 (Östersunds FK)

Wolverhampton Wanderers: Vítor Pereira
- Primeira Liga: 2011-12, 2012-13 (FC Porto)
- Greek Super League: 2014-15 (Olympiacos)
- Greek Cup: 2014-15 (Olympiacos)
- Saudi Professional League: 2022-23 (Al-Ittihad)


Does 95% of Premier League managers sound better?

 

[SilentWitness]

Arsenal: Mikel Arteta
- FA Cup: 2020 (Arsenal)
- FA Community Shield: 2020 (Arsenal)

Aston Villa: Unai Emery
- UEFA Europa League: 2014, 2015, 2016 (Sevilla); 2021 (Villarreal)
- Coupe de France: 2017, 2018 (Paris Saint-Germain)
- Coupe de la Ligue: 2017, 2018 (Paris Saint-Germain)
- Trophée des Champions: 2016, 2017 (Paris Saint-Germain)

Bournemouth: Andoni Iraola
- Segunda División: 2017-18 (Rayo Vallecano)

Brentford: Thomas Frank
- Danish Cup: 2011 (FC Copenhagen, as assistant manager)

Brighton & Hove Albion: Fabian Hürzeler
- No major trophies recorded.

Chelsea: Enzo Maresca
- EFL Championship: 2023-24 (Leicester City)

Crystal Palace: Oliver Glasner
- DFB-Pokal: 2021-22 (Eintracht Frankfurt)

Everton: David Moyes
- FA Community Shield: 2013 (Manchester United)

Fulham: Marco Silva
- Taça de Portugal: 2013-14 (Sporting CP)
- Supertaça Cândido de Oliveira: 2014 (Sporting CP)
- Greek Super League: 2015-16 (Olympiacos)

Ipswich Town: Kieran McKenna
- No major trophies recorded.

Leicester City: Ruud van Nistelrooy
- No major trophies recorded.

Liverpool: Arne Slot
- Eredivisie: 2022-23 (Feyenoord)

Manchester City: Pep Guardiola
- La Liga: 2008-09, 2009-10, 2010-11 (FC Barcelona)
- Copa del Rey: 2008-09, 2011-12 (FC Barcelona)
- UEFA Champions League: 2008-09, 2010-11 (FC Barcelona); 2022-23 (Manchester City)
- Bundesliga: 2013-14, 2014-15, 2015-16 (Bayern Munich)
- DFB-Pokal: 2013-14, 2015-16 (Bayern Munich)
- Premier League: 2017-18, 2018-19, 2020-21, 2021-22, 2022-23, 2023-24 (Manchester City)
- FA Cup: 2018-19 (Manchester City)
- EFL Cup: 2017-18, 2018-19, 2019-20, 2020-21 (Manchester City)
- FA Community Shield: 2018, 2019 (Manchester City)

Manchester United: Ruben Amorim
- Taça da Liga: 2019-20 (Braga); 2020-21, 2021-22 (Sporting CP)
- Primeira Liga: 2020-21 (Sporting CP)
- Supertaça Cândido de Oliveira: 2021 (Sporting CP)

Newcastle United: Eddie Howe
- EFL Championship: 2014-15 (Bournemouth)

Nottingham Forest: Nuno Espírito Santo
- EFL Championship play-offs: 2023-24 (Nottingham Forest)

Southampton: Ivan Jurić
- Serie B: 2019-20 (Hellas Verona)

Tottenham Hotspur: Ange Postecoglou
- A-League Premiership: 2010-11 (Brisbane Roar)
- A-League Championship: 2011, 2012 (Brisbane Roar)
- J1 League: 2019 (Yokohama F. Marinos)
- Scottish Premiership: 2021-22, 2022-23 (Celtic)
- Scottish League Cup: 2021-22, 2022-23 (Celtic)

West Ham United: Graham Potter
- Swedish Cup: 2016-17 (Östersunds FK)

Wolverhampton Wanderers: Vítor Pereira
- Primeira Liga: 2011-12, 2012-13 (FC Porto)
- Greek Super League: 2014-15 (Olympiacos)
- Greek Cup: 2014-15 (Olympiacos)
- Saudi Professional League: 2022-23 (Al-Ittihad)


Does 95% of Premier League managers sound better?

You forgot Moyes' Conference League win with West Ham and Glasner won the Europa League.

 

[Pexbo]

You forgot Moyes' Conference League win with West Ham.

No I didn’t.

 

[Red Star One]

I assume this is him announcing his retirement? Considering there isn't single decent team with a single player from the generation that Ten Hag "grew up in".

What bollocks! How are the other managers doing well and winning trophies then? His only claim to fame is that CL semi-final run which hugely depended on a ridiculously gifted generation of youngsters at Ajax. The excuses just won't stop.

This is something I always found very tedious about ten Hag. He was and seemingly continues to find excuses for everything, acting as if the problems he faced as a manager were unique and not faced by other managers (who dealt with them in a much better manner), always a victim despite having almost unlimited transfer budget, plenty of goodwill & trust from the board and a huge say on players we brought it. But it's never his fault or shortcomings - it's bad luck, bad players, bad generation, bad youth, bad anything.

This and his extremely damaging nepotism make him the least likeable of all former United managers I remember. Impressive to think some in this thread thought that the likes of BVB and so will line up for his services.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

Arsenal: Mikel Arteta
- FA Cup: 2020 (Arsenal)
- FA Community Shield: 2020 (Arsenal)

Aston Villa: Unai Emery
- UEFA Europa League: 2014, 2015, 2016 (Sevilla); 2021 (Villarreal)
- Coupe de France: 2017, 2018 (Paris Saint-Germain)
- Coupe de la Ligue: 2017, 2018 (Paris Saint-Germain)
- Trophée des Champions: 2016, 2017 (Paris Saint-Germain)

Bournemouth: Andoni Iraola
- Segunda División: 2017-18 (Rayo Vallecano)

Brentford: Thomas Frank
- Danish Cup: 2011 (FC Copenhagen, as assistant manager)

Brighton & Hove Albion: Fabian Hürzeler
- No major trophies recorded.

Chelsea: Enzo Maresca
- EFL Championship: 2023-24 (Leicester City)

Crystal Palace: Oliver Glasner
- DFB-Pokal: 2021-22 (Eintracht Frankfurt)

Everton: David Moyes
- FA Community Shield: 2013 (Manchester United)

Fulham: Marco Silva
- Taça de Portugal: 2013-14 (Sporting CP)
- Supertaça Cândido de Oliveira: 2014 (Sporting CP)
- Greek Super League: 2015-16 (Olympiacos)

Ipswich Town: Kieran McKenna
- No major trophies recorded.

Leicester City: Ruud van Nistelrooy
- No major trophies recorded.

Liverpool: Arne Slot
- Eredivisie: 2022-23 (Feyenoord)

Manchester City: Pep Guardiola
- La Liga: 2008-09, 2009-10, 2010-11 (FC Barcelona)
- Copa del Rey: 2008-09, 2011-12 (FC Barcelona)
- UEFA Champions League: 2008-09, 2010-11 (FC Barcelona); 2022-23 (Manchester City)
- Bundesliga: 2013-14, 2014-15, 2015-16 (Bayern Munich)
- DFB-Pokal: 2013-14, 2015-16 (Bayern Munich)
- Premier League: 2017-18, 2018-19, 2020-21, 2021-22, 2022-23, 2023-24 (Manchester City)
- FA Cup: 2018-19 (Manchester City)
- EFL Cup: 2017-18, 2018-19, 2019-20, 2020-21 (Manchester City)
- FA Community Shield: 2018, 2019 (Manchester City)

Manchester United: Ruben Amorim
- Taça da Liga: 2019-20 (Braga); 2020-21, 2021-22 (Sporting CP)
- Primeira Liga: 2020-21 (Sporting CP)
- Supertaça Cândido de Oliveira: 2021 (Sporting CP)

Newcastle United: Eddie Howe
- EFL Championship: 2014-15 (Bournemouth)

Nottingham Forest: Nuno Espírito Santo
- EFL Championship play-offs: 2023-24 (Nottingham Forest)

Southampton: Ivan Jurić
- Serie B: 2019-20 (Hellas Verona)

Tottenham Hotspur: Ange Postecoglou
- A-League Premiership: 2010-11 (Brisbane Roar)
- A-League Championship: 2011, 2012 (Brisbane Roar)
- J1 League: 2019 (Yokohama F. Marinos)
- Scottish Premiership: 2021-22, 2022-23 (Celtic)
- Scottish League Cup: 2021-22, 2022-23 (Celtic)

West Ham United: Graham Potter
- Swedish Cup: 2016-17 (Östersunds FK)

Wolverhampton Wanderers: Vítor Pereira
- Primeira Liga: 2011-12, 2012-13 (FC Porto)
- Greek Super League: 2014-15 (Olympiacos)
- Greek Cup: 2014-15 (Olympiacos)
- Saudi Professional League: 2022-23 (Al-Ittihad)


Does 95% of Premier League managers sound better?

You’ve done Nistelrooy dirty

Won 2 trophies in Holland in 1 season

 

[Pexbo]

You’ve done Nistelrooy dirty

Won 2 trophies in Holland in 1 season

ChatGPT has done him dirty. I take zero responsibility. Regardless both him and Moyes won’t change the point that ten Hag has achieved more than the majority of EPL managers let alone looking at the other top leagues.

 

[SilentWitness]

ChatGPT has done him dirty. I take zero responsibility. Regardless both him and Moyes won’t change the point that ten Hag has achieved more than the majority of EPL managers let alone looking at the other top leagues.

ChatGPT is pretty rubbish then as Glasner was runner-up in the German Cup and won the Europa League.

 

[Cassidy]

He’s largely correct about the new generation of players. Just look at somebody like Sancho, given all the support in the world and then throws it back in his face at the first hint of criticism. However this is the modern way so you either adapt with the times or get left behind. Mourinho has never managed to adapt to this either.

I think the club culture is a bigger issue here than the manager. At clubs with better cultures players don’t get away with what Sancho pulled

At United players seem to know they can get managers sacked and so don’t see them as the ultimate authority. We saw this with Lingard as well going to Murtough above the managers head and getting time off etc

At City Aguero had to bend to Peps will, Thiki didn’t allow a back door for Aguero to undermine Pep. Same at Arsenal with Ozil and Auba under Arteta. Those who didn’t fall in line were cleared out no matter their status. Arsenal went multiple seasons finishing 8th before it all came together.

Hopefully thats whats happening now at United.

 

[erikcred]

Along with 3 league titles with Ajax and 3 cups, an FA cup winners and runner up medal and a league cup with United?

He’s achieved more than 95% of football managers active today. It’s really silly when people use hyperbole to discredit him, there’s plenty of ways he can be criticised without resorting to it.

You completely missed my point. It is that his biggest (in my eyes) achievement came while he managed a lot of youngsters.

I never said he didn't win more than most managers. I'm happy to include your list as well. Again, he did all of that with mostly a young team.

But here he is, trying to tack on this excuse about modern players not accepting criticism. Maybe he's shit at communicating with them? Did he even put that forward as a possibility?

 

[mctrials23]

Mourinho has never managed to adapt to this either.

Yep. Mourinho is still and excellent manager in the purest sense. He simply refuses to put up with the utter bullshit that modern management is. He was at his peak when he had a Chelsea team with players who would run through walls for him and when asked to jump, they said "how high".

That is the modern game though and you have to play the game if you want to be successful.

 

[TsuWave]

I think it’s good players aren’t letting managers get away with getting on camera/press conferences and single them out. Always thought it was poor management

I think the club culture is a bigger issue here than the manager. At clubs with better cultures players don’t get away with what Sancho pulled

At United players seem to know they can get managers sacked and so don’t see them as the ultimate authority. We saw this with Lingard as well going to Murtough above the managers head and getting time off etc

Does this argument even stand scrutiny? I mean, seeing as Sancho didn’t get away with anything. Guy got banished and booted

 

[Red Star One]

Arsenal: Mikel Arteta
- FA Cup: 2020 (Arsenal)
- FA Community Shield: 2020 (Arsenal)

Aston Villa: Unai Emery
- UEFA Europa League: 2014, 2015, 2016 (Sevilla); 2021 (Villarreal)
- Coupe de France: 2017, 2018 (Paris Saint-Germain)
- Coupe de la Ligue: 2017, 2018 (Paris Saint-Germain)
- Trophée des Champions: 2016, 2017 (Paris Saint-Germain)

Bournemouth: Andoni Iraola
- Segunda División: 2017-18 (Rayo Vallecano)

Brentford: Thomas Frank
- Danish Cup: 2011 (FC Copenhagen, as assistant manager)

Brighton & Hove Albion: Fabian Hürzeler
- No major trophies recorded.

Chelsea: Enzo Maresca
- EFL Championship: 2023-24 (Leicester City)

Crystal Palace: Oliver Glasner
- DFB-Pokal: 2021-22 (Eintracht Frankfurt)

Everton: David Moyes
- FA Community Shield: 2013 (Manchester United)

Fulham: Marco Silva
- Taça de Portugal: 2013-14 (Sporting CP)
- Supertaça Cândido de Oliveira: 2014 (Sporting CP)
- Greek Super League: 2015-16 (Olympiacos)

Ipswich Town: Kieran McKenna
- No major trophies recorded.

Leicester City: Ruud van Nistelrooy
- No major trophies recorded.

Liverpool: Arne Slot
- Eredivisie: 2022-23 (Feyenoord)

Manchester City: Pep Guardiola
- La Liga: 2008-09, 2009-10, 2010-11 (FC Barcelona)
- Copa del Rey: 2008-09, 2011-12 (FC Barcelona)
- UEFA Champions League: 2008-09, 2010-11 (FC Barcelona); 2022-23 (Manchester City)
- Bundesliga: 2013-14, 2014-15, 2015-16 (Bayern Munich)
- DFB-Pokal: 2013-14, 2015-16 (Bayern Munich)
- Premier League: 2017-18, 2018-19, 2020-21, 2021-22, 2022-23, 2023-24 (Manchester City)
- FA Cup: 2018-19 (Manchester City)
- EFL Cup: 2017-18, 2018-19, 2019-20, 2020-21 (Manchester City)
- FA Community Shield: 2018, 2019 (Manchester City)

Manchester United: Ruben Amorim
- Taça da Liga: 2019-20 (Braga); 2020-21, 2021-22 (Sporting CP)
- Primeira Liga: 2020-21 (Sporting CP)
- Supertaça Cândido de Oliveira: 2021 (Sporting CP)

Newcastle United: Eddie Howe
- EFL Championship: 2014-15 (Bournemouth)

Nottingham Forest: Nuno Espírito Santo
- EFL Championship play-offs: 2023-24 (Nottingham Forest)

Southampton: Ivan Jurić
- Serie B: 2019-20 (Hellas Verona)

Tottenham Hotspur: Ange Postecoglou
- A-League Premiership: 2010-11 (Brisbane Roar)
- A-League Championship: 2011, 2012 (Brisbane Roar)
- J1 League: 2019 (Yokohama F. Marinos)
- Scottish Premiership: 2021-22, 2022-23 (Celtic)
- Scottish League Cup: 2021-22, 2022-23 (Celtic)

West Ham United: Graham Potter
- Swedish Cup: 2016-17 (Östersunds FK)

Wolverhampton Wanderers: Vítor Pereira
- Primeira Liga: 2011-12, 2012-13 (FC Porto)
- Greek Super League: 2014-15 (Olympiacos)
- Greek Cup: 2014-15 (Olympiacos)
- Saudi Professional League: 2022-23 (Al-Ittihad)


Does 95% of Premier League managers sound better?

That list is by no means correct and if we take EtH's second places as his achievements perhaps we should try to keep the same criteria for other managers. But I give you that he has won more tier2/tier3 silverware than majority of Premier League managers (though not 95% as you claim) and the likes of Hürzeler, half his age and who never managed as dominant teams as Ajax in Eredivise, are yet to match his achievements. He's almost at the level of Ange.

 

[BrilliantOrange]

I assume this is him announcing his retirement? Considering there isn't single decent team with a single player from the generation that Ten Hag "grew up in".

What bollocks! How are the other managers doing well and winning trophies then? His only claim to fame is that CL semi-final run which hugely depended on a ridiculously gifted generation of youngsters at Ajax. The excuses just won't stop.

So funny how people just randomly pick whichever narrative favors them..

"Ajax had a ridiculously gifted generation, so it was only logical and not due to the manager they eliminated Madrid, Juve and reached the semi's"
"None of the Ajax players who left after the CL run lived up to their expectations, they were hyped"

 

[Lay]

Old generation moaning about new generation shocker

 

[Red Star One]

So funny how people just randomly pick whichever narrative favors them..

"Ajax had a ridiculously gifted generation, so it was only logical and not due to the manager they eliminated Madrid, Juve and reached the semi's"
"None of the Ajax players who left after the CL run lived up to their expectations, they were hyped"

Is there a single person that claims both of this things at once, or you find it funny and contradictory that different people have different opinions?

 

[BrilliantOrange]

That list is by no means correct and if we take EtH's second places as his achievements perhaps we should try to keep the same criteria for other managers. But I give you that he has won more tier2/tier3 silverware than majority of Premier League managers (though not 95% as you claim) and the likes of Hürzeler, half his age and who never managed as dominant teams as Ajax in Eredivise, are yet to match his achievements. He's almost at the level of Ange.

I think people massively overrate how dominant Ajax is in the Dutch league and has been for this century and as a consequence massively underrate Ten Hag his perfomances..

This century Ajax only managed to reach the knock out stages of the champions league 4 times (2003, 2006, 2019 and 2022). Ten Hag was responsibly for two of those.

This century PSV won the league 11 times, Ajax 9 times. Ten Hag was responsible to finish on top all seasons he started as Ajax manager (3x champions, 1x top of the table when the league was cancelled due to Covid.

Before Ten Hag came Ajax hadn't won the league for 4 years, and havent again after he left..

 

[erikcred]

So funny how people just randomly pick whichever narrative favors them..

"Ajax had a ridiculously gifted generation, so it was only logical and not due to the manager they eliminated Madrid, Juve and reached the semi's"
"None of the Ajax players who left after the CL run lived up to their expectations, they were hyped"

Again, the point in the post you quote, which arose from ETH's comment about modern footballers not accepting criticism, is that many of the Ajax team were youngsters and he did fine with them. Surely, their age is an objective fact!

Man, the reading comprehension here is mind boggling!

 

[BrilliantOrange]

Is there a single person that claims both of this things at once, or you find it funny and contradictory that different people have different opinions?

There are plenty in general whenever I talk to people unfortunately.. I havent scrolled through the forum to see Ive seen it with anyone on here, but Ive definetely hear people pick whichever narrative suited their point at that moment.

 

[AjaxCunian]

I think people massively overrate how dominant Ajax is in the Dutch league and has been for this century and as a consequence massively underrate Ten Hag his perfomances..

This century Ajax only managed to reach the knock out stages of the champions league 4 times (2003, 2006, 2019 and 2022). Ten Hag was responsibly for two of those.

This century PSV won the league 11 times, Ajax 9 times. Ten Hag was responsible to finish on top all seasons he started as Ajax manager (3x champions, 1x top of the table when the league was cancelled due to Covid.

Before Ten Hag came Ajax hadn't won the league for 4 years, and havent again after he left..

The caf hates Ten Hag, probably rightly so but most opinions on him are pure hatred and no sense.

The funny thing is I listened to the podcasr yesterday, and he's talking about his 22 year career after retiring from being a player. He was head if academy and has had several managerial roles. It is not an United podcast at all.

He has recognised some of the mistakes he's made, he's taking a sabbatical and reflecting on his own performance.

He does seem to really cling unto the cup wins and the other lost final, but so did Mourinho when he left us. Though it was never enough, but I can imagine it will take a long time before we win a cup again.

 

[BrilliantOrange]

Again, the point in the post you quote, which arose from ETH's comment about modern footballers not accepting criticism, is that many of the Ajax team were youngsters and he did fine with them. Surely, their age is an objective fact!

Man, the reading comprehension here is mind boggling!

You are discrediting and downplaying his massively impressive accomplishment of reaching the Semi Finals by emphasizing it was largely due to the squad at his hand.

 

[Red Star One]

There are plenty in general whenever I talk to people unfortunately.. I havent scrolled through the forum to see Ive seen it with anyone on here, but Ive definetely hear people pick whichever narrative suited their point at that moment.

Right, sounds quite weird for me to claim that this Ajax generation was just hyped and never lived to their expectations. De Jong and De Ligt alone contradict this.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Right, sounds quite weird for me to claim that this Ajax generation was just hyped and never lived to their expectations. De Jong and De Ligt alone contradict this.

Do they?

 

[erikcred]

You are discrediting and downplaying his massively impressive accomplishment of reaching the Semi Finals by emphasizing it was largely due to the squad at his hand.

Eh? Again, and for the last time. He did very very well managing modern players at Ajax. Even at United he won a couple of trophies with a squad full of young players.

So he cannot complain that "modern players do not accept criticism", and by implication, managing them is a uniquely challenging task that contributed to the end of his time here..

Every single other manager in any of the top divisions is also managing "modern players".

 

[Red Star One]

Do they?

De Jong is absolutely class and has been really good for Barca, he's quite underrated due to the fact they wanted to push him out but doesn't change the fact he's a great player.
De Ligt was immense for his age while at Ajax and has shown obvious qualities that make him more than just 'hype'. Admittedly the expectations were even higher and he wasn't really a hit at Juve or Bayern but still did a decent job there and there's little doubt he's a very good CB.

 

[AjaxCunian]

Eh? Again, and for the last time. He did very very well managing modern players at Ajax. Even at United he won a couple of trophies with a squad full of young players.

So he cannot complain that "modern players do not accept criticism", and by implication, managing them is a uniquely challenging task that contributed to the end of his time here..

Every single other manager in any of the top divisions is also managing "modern players".

This was nowhere near the point he was making. He was simply comparing his time as a player, to current day football. The difference in approach.

 

[JPRouve]

It's a strange claim from ETH, he did pretty well with modern players and it has been well documented that he was very critical of these modern players that did well under his management. Also all generations have players that don't take criticisms well, United has a legend that spent most of his career throwing tantrums at the first criticism in Cantona. The other thing is that modern players are far more subjects to public criticism and world wide scrutiny than older generations.

 

[stefan92]

Brighton & Hove Albion: Fabian Hürzeler
- No major trophies recorded.

Chelsea: Enzo Maresca
- EFL Championship: 2023-24 (Leicester City)

If winning the Championship is seen as a trophy then winning the 2nd Bundesliga has to count as well.

 

[stefan92]

It's a strange claim from ETH, he did pretty well with modern players and it has been well documented that he was very critical of these modern players that did well under his management.

Yes he did well. He didn't say that he has got a problem, just that the approach changed from generation to generation.

 

[SuperiorXI]

I can well believe in that, even in the workplace, majority of young people cannot take any criticism. I also believe it's why so many young people have mental health issues, they've been brought up in a nanny state, where actions have no consequences, where standards are never challenged. This generation of younger players are lazy and entitled, they all want instant fame and wealth, it's all they strive for, success in the form of trophies doesn't motivate them, for the majority it's just about profile and lifestyle.

This is absolute nonsense. History is littered with old, redundant men complaining about the "youth of today". It's a lazy excuse made usually because they are incapable of understanding and adapting to a new generation.

Plenty of successful managers who win trophies have dished out bollockings in this modern age. Look at Pep for example, arguably the most successful today, he bollocks the players in front of cameras for the world to see.

 

[AjaxCunian]

It's a strange claim from ETH, he did pretty well with modern players and it has been well documented that he was very critical of these modern players that did well under his management. Also all generations have players that don't take criticisms well, United has a legend that spent most of his career throwing tantrums at the first criticism in Cantona. The other thing is that modern players are far more subjects to public criticism and world wide scrutiny than older generations.

Think a lot of context is missing, which is understandable since it is nearly an hour long podcast in Dutch.. only bits have been translated and posted in the media.

He was sharing an anecdote where when he was a player, after a match on Saturday, his manager would call him to the office on Monday.

He'd have a seat and his manager told him, no stand up, you cant sit. The manager proceeded and asked him, what did you think about the match Saturday? EtH thought he actually played a decent match, he did well. EtH said I played alright, and the manager told him he played fecking crap. That if he wants to improve his game, it will take for the instructions of the manager to help him.. the following Thursday, the manager told him in training that he's the best and going to the very top.

That was the style of management then, now, he would end up in HR's office.

He wasnt suggesting that he is not able to manage modern players, just highlighting some of the differences.

 

[JPRouve]

Yes he did well. He didn't say that he has got a problem, just that the approach changed from generation to generation.

And my point is that many players of his generations got demotivated by the approach that were used then, many managers lost players that way or lost their jobs. Also many managers are direct today, some players are fine with it and others aren't because people aren't the same, they don't have the same personalities and don't respond to the same stimuli and it's not a generational thing.

 

[JPRouve]

Think a lot of context is missing, which is understandable since it is nearly an hour long podcast in Dutch.. only bits have been translated and posted in the media.

He was sharing an anecdote where when he was a player, after a match on Saturday, his manager would call him to the office on Monday.

He'd have a seat and his manager told him, no stand up, you cant sit. The manager proceeded and asked him, what did you think about the match Saturday? EtH thought he actually played a decent match, he did well. EtH said I played alright, and the manager told him he played fecking crap. That if he wants to improve his game, it will take for the instructions of the manager to help him.. the following Thursday, the manager told him in training that he's the best and going to the very top.

That was the style of management then, now, he would end up in HR's office.

He wasnt suggesting that he is not able to manage modern players, just highlighting some of the differences.

And that's my point, it's total BS. It wouldn't end up in HR for everyone today, the same way you couldn't do that to everyone back in the day without consequences.

 

[AjaxCunian]

And that's my point, it's total BS. It wouldn't end up in HR for everyone today, the same way you couldn't do that to everyone back in the day without consequences.

It was done to him and EtH seems to suggest it was the norm and very normal back then.

You took it with a pinch of salt, and moved on. I don't think it's far fetched at all, let alone total BS when you look at how much more sensitive and conscious the world is of these things.. (For the good).

He does also highlight that these times it's very different, and they werent subject to social media in thejr time. Constantly under widespread scrutiny.

 

[sullydnl]

And that's my point, it's total BS. It wouldn't end up in HR for everyone today, the same way you couldn't do that to everyone back in the day without consequences.

Indeed.

Just today I note Arne Slot publicly criticising Darwin Nunez' effort in their last two games. Something tells me HR won't be knocking on his door, as Liverpool walk their way to a league title.

 

[tomaldinho1]

De Jong is absolutely class and has been really good for Barca, he's quite underrated due to the fact they wanted to push him out but doesn't change the fact he's a great player.
De Ligt was immense for his age while at Ajax and has shown obvious qualities that make him more than just 'hype'. Admittedly the expectations were even higher and he wasn't really a hit at Juve or Bayern but still did a decent job there and there's little doubt he's a very good CB.

So he had one great player? De Ligt disproves the point - he's solid but looked his best at Ajax. Same for Beeky.

 

[Red Star One]

So he had one great player? De Ligt disproves the point - he's solid but looked his best at Ajax. Same for Beeky.

obviously much more than one great player, and I don't know what your point is with De Ligt - if he looked better in a much easier Dutch league than in a more difficult ones in Germany/Italy/England, does it mean he was all hype and never developed after leaving Ajax or never reached the levels he played at Ajax? Because if so I disagree.

Tadic, Ziyech, Mazraoui were/are all very good players in my books, and not only in Ajax. VdB is probably the only player from that team that joined a much stronger league and immediately looked clueless.