He needed a better structure around him, the fact there wasn’t one meant we just signed all mates instead. But that doesn’t mean there wasn’t people at the club who had ideas on targets, I’m assuming Ten Hag just vetoed them and said get me Wout Weghorst and Andre Onana.
Erik ten Hag | Currently unemployed
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
I think a lot of it comes from wanting to absolve Amorim of any blame, which I get - I've been there myself in the past with other managers.
The mess this season is a combo of horrendous squad building (Woody/Murtough/Ineos) + a legacy of rewarding mediocrity (Woody/Murtough) - Amorim's role in our issues is obscured by these bigger legacy problems, but I certainly don't think it's fair to turn round and blame Ten Hag for everything.
Even if he has terrible talent ID (which there's strong evidence for) he should never have been responsible for identifying players in the first place, and the rest of the football hierarchy should not be absolved of their responsibility in this and certainly not absolved for their role when it comes to transfer fees and wages.
I would unironically take Weghorst all day over Zirkzee and Hojlund right now.
Yeah I dunno about that. Weghorst was genuinely awful for us. Shame, as I was pretty excited for him to come in, but he just wasn’t up to it. Doing well for Ajax now though.
We'd have been better off keeping Weghorst and not signing Hojlund or Zirkzee, simply for financial reasons. But no point pretending Weghorst isn't just as shite as the other two
It is pretty well documented that he identified a lot of the players we bought during his tenure. So no it's not ridiculous at all to level some blame at him.
And nowhere in my post did I say he is the only one to blame
He certainly had a lot of terrible qualities (mainly finishing) but his work rate + ability to lay off the ball for other attackers worked quite well, and he felt like a net plus to the team overall rather than playing with ten men like you get with Hojlund or Zirkzee (each for opposing reasons).
I would argue this squad is in worse shape then any of those previous squads.
Well that kind off proves his point.. for years we've been trying to "fix" our club by buying players that will do good for us and that particular season and for that particular manager.
I've said it here before, the players ETH bought aren't good enough for us or any manager going forward. But the type of players Amorim wants, are the type of players that will be good for any manager coming in. Because they are athletic, technically good and football smart players. The players he wants to play as 10s are players that can also play as wings/10s and the players he wants to play as wingbacks are players that can play as fullbacks/wingbacks or even wings. So basically they are players that we can build on going forward. But off course, and this is a big if, if we get the right players in(not just for Amorim).
I don't disagree, I just wouldn't blame Ten Hag for it.
If Murtough/Ineos had anything about them they would have had a load of better players lined up (at sensible prices and on sensible wages) rather than taking his lead on the dross we did sign.
If you look at Rangnick's last line up it's hardly any better that our current 11. Same with Van Gaal/Ole/Jose's last line ups. We've been signing dog shit for a full decade, the only difference is the problem compounds with every passing manager as the squad becomes more and more incoherent.
Can't believe you guys still argue about the coaches. Isn't it super clear by now that it's management that screws it up? You just keep overpaying for mediocre players. Nobody, literally nobody, thought that Martinez was worth 50m, that Antony was worth 90m, Hojlund 70m, Zierikzee anything over 25m.. The true superplayers won't come to Man Utd anymore but you still pay superplayer fees for 2nd tier talent and then blame the coach..
ETH even sucked at Ajax picking players. The few that he picked all failed. The succeses all came from scouting/ Overmars. Management should know that.. He is a coach; not a director
ETH even sucked at Ajax picking players. The few that he picked all failed. The succeses all came from scouting/ Overmars. Management should know that.. He is a coach; not a director
There really needs to be a football committee board that reviews managers competence with the opportunity of revoking their coaching badges, similar to how Drs have the medical committee who hold them accountable if they are liable of malpractice where they have the potential to have their licences suspended or revoked completely
The same should be made for Managers who have left clubs in total destruction and left with their own pockets full and the potential to wreck another club
Ten Hag should have to stand in front of a panel committee and explain every transfer decision he made here and break down how he thought signing a striker who can't control football for 72 million made sense, signing a goalie who isn't a goalie for 50 million when we already had a superior goalkeeper in the academy, Signing a injury plan for 60 million with one year on their contract, signing a limited one trick pony one left footed winger for 80 million
Only now are people waking up to the total mess he left us in on and off the pitch, it was a living nightmare having to watch him in charge while listening to certain sections of the fanbase everywhere calling for him to be given more time and faith
Ineos are just as culpable for their dithering and indecisive in not realising that this man was sending this club straight to Hell
The same should be made for Managers who have left clubs in total destruction and left with their own pockets full and the potential to wreck another club
Ten Hag should have to stand in front of a panel committee and explain every transfer decision he made here and break down how he thought signing a striker who can't control football for 72 million made sense, signing a goalie who isn't a goalie for 50 million when we already had a superior goalkeeper in the academy, Signing a injury plan for 60 million with one year on their contract, signing a limited one trick pony one left footed winger for 80 million
Only now are people waking up to the total mess he left us in on and off the pitch, it was a living nightmare having to watch him in charge while listening to certain sections of the fanbase everywhere calling for him to be given more time and faith
Ineos are just as culpable for their dithering and indecisive in not realising that this man was sending this club straight to Hell
He'll have to wait in line behind Mou and Ole, will take a while. Rumour is the panel are still talking to Moyes.
That is Insane, aside from the whole blame it on one individual whereas, it should be a whole department responsible for recruitment, with a DOF in charge, The blame does not lie on any manager exclusively even if he goes I want this player the club should be able to go yes/no provide an alternative. Also it has already been reported the ridiculous prices paid for certain players was on the club not the manager even if he wanted a player club should negotiate better.
The worse crime you can claim Moyes ever did besides being underqualified for the job, was get rid of SAF's backroom staff and bring in his Everton buddies. He did nowhere close to the any long term damage, he got two big signings in Fellaini who cost 30 mil and Jaan Mata who cost around 37 million, which is a drop in the ocean to the amount of money spent by Ten hag and both Mata and Fellani served their purposes in the team and helped do something.
Mourinho also did not do much damage, he had his flops but his signings helped us come 2nd win a europa and then didn't get backed. I suggest you go back and look at the teams, Ole Mourinho left behind and compare it to what we are left with now to get an idea of the disparency in quality. Ole left a top 4 team so did Mourinho, that's why are best players from the last two seasons have been from Ole's team in Bruno Varane Diallo who ETH tried to freeze out in favour of garnacho, antony and forson and even Dalot was someone Mourinho bought in.
There is nothing from Ten hag signings who you can say will be a key player for us in future and I don't count the likes of ugarte yoro, zirkee who were clearly Ineos driven buys. The only thing hiss signings helped bring to the club was PSR and FFP problems
Pre Ineos, there are no signings that Ten hag that serve any use for the team today or in the future and we are stuck with them because they are either injury prone or on high wages or no club in their right mind will put in any decent bids for them. You can't tell me any big signing ETH made who had a huge impact or has any future here which is a damning indictment on his choice of transfers, where I can name several players from ole, mourinho, to even LVG and Moyes who actually elevated the team at the time and served their purpose for the club
Ten hag drove the recruitment, he was given alternatives for every position by the club, which he turned down to hunt down and raid his former players. The board had a choice to turn them down, but if you have a long memory, you would remember there was huge pressure on Arnold to back Ten Hag and give him want he wanted, to the point a few goons decided upon themselves to go turn up and confront him outside his home and ask him while secretly recording whether or not the club had the money to get transfers done for money under the back of Ten hag targeting and having the board waste an entire summer in spain on a goose chase trying to get De Jong even when the player told the world he loved Baralona and didn't intend on leaving.
If they dared said no to many of his nonsensical transfers his fans would have been blaming the board for letting him down as we heard them blame the ''lack of structure'' for us conceding 21 shots every game when things started to go shite
Agreed re Moyes, I said this in another thread recently:
That is long term damage done in the space of a few weeks.
Mou's damage was to the brand of the club in my opinion - I think he really started the media craze for the negative United headlines and his attitude stank the place out. He should have been canned the summer he rebelled but Woodward, as ever, was a pussy. Defensive football to the tune of hundreds of millions. We won Europa, yes, but that's like City winning the PL whilst cheating, it's not that impressive if you outspend everyone and have the best squad in the comp.
Ole I think was the worst of all, mostly because it made it clear we were happy to be a top four club at best. The way people perceived United changed dramatically from the day Mou was fired to the day Ole left. All other managers here for at least a season, before and since, won something. They pushed a team over the line.
ETH I think will be remembered much better long term - recruitment was poor (as it was under every manager) but he tried - however unsuccessfully - to move us to something new tactically whilst having to take on the problems left him from Ole's disastrous transfer windows. Your argument about serving a purpose or elevating the team doesn't hold though - first season many signings looked decent, we finished 3rd, won a cup and generally people were quite positive about things. That's kind of the cycle all our managers go through, initial hope followed by a slow death. You can't try and make out it didn't happen to Ole or Mou or LVG as well as ETH.
Your last para is demonstrably not true from the sources we have. The Antony story has been covered in detail though it appears you have ignored it, Mount was a bizarre one I agree, Martinez was great for us, then poor, this season has been hit and miss but he is young and I think could go either way still. Onana much the same. Hojlund is a kid, he may well come good and wasn't ETH's signing. De Jong I don't really see how you blame ETH, in fact it really highlights the issue all managers have faced. ETH wanted De Jong (fact), Barcelona wanted to sell him (fact from what we know), player did not want to come (fact) but it seemed like Barcelona might have to sell him (fact). I get why we pursued him but the alternative players offered are on the club/scouts and it's so tragically fitting that in trying to find someone of De Jong's ability we end up with Casemiro for a huge fee and insane wages.
Mourinho I agreed needed to be sacked for the self sabotage and the defensive negative football and toxic attitude which was horrible. However it did not cause long term damage and consequences, objectively you can argue it potentially effected the likes of Shaw, Rashford and Martial who he enjoyed throwing under the bus. But the squad he left behind was not bad, hence why Ole was able to get a tune out of the same team and have a long manager bounce because Mourinho had brought in quality to the squad, he had only brought in 11 players, Bailey, Pogba, Ibramimovic, Lukaku, Liindelof, Dalot, etc, 3 of them world class players on their day and Dalot is still a asset to the team to this day. He was only allowed to move on 8 players and was blocked from selling Martial and someone else I forgot.
Ten hag got to sign over 21 players to tune of over 600 million and release/sell over 30 players over 3 years where he literally had carte blance to carry out his own open heart surgery and the team in 14th place, where none of his signings are even capable of being good for a mid table finish
As for your claim about Ole being content with top 4 I have no idea where you get that from, other than mispresenting his quote about trophies is for ego, where he meant trophies is not a sign of progress. He made it abundantly clear that his aim and ambition was to win the premier league.
Ole ''To lift the Premier League trophy again is what we expect, what we are used to and what we have done so many times.''
"We can't wait for too many years but we have to take it step by step. It is not like it is going to happen overnight, catching the 15, 16, 17 points or whatever we are behind the top teams now." So unless you can find an interview where Ole suggested we should be content with top 4 then you shouldn't be making that kind of statement.
It was actually in fact Ten hag in after finishing his second season after spending near 450 million that the 3rd season objective would be a top 4 finish
Asked what United could achieve if he was to stay on as United manager next season, Ten Hag replied: "We are definitely competitive for top four. 25 May 2024, so I think you have this lowering of standards gearing towards Ole the wrong way round
He also made constant insistences on needing winners and the right character in the team and overhauling the culture of the club. This was backed up by his transfer targets, he wanted the very best up coming players. That's why he wanted Rice, Maguire, Sancho, Varane, Haaland, Bruno Fernandes, Bellingham Caicedo Amad etc. No one can tell me those were not better transfer targets at the time than antony, brobbery, artanovic, rabiot, mount, Gapko,
As for the trophies argument he was a De Gea penalty miss away from winning the Europa. The guy finished 3rd in his first full season then finished second. The players who helped Ten hag win his trophies, one where he was a toenail away from getting knocked out by Coventry, where signings made by Ole. And the players who saved his neck every time he was the verge of getting rightfully sacked in his second season where Ole signings. Maguire, Bruno and Amad were the ones who continuously bailed Ten hag out along with Mctominay who Mourinho promoted.
And ten hag's most successful league campaign came utilising the similar prototype counter attacking system Ole deployed. In his second season when he used the 414 suicide formation he finished 8th. So let's put things into perspective. This guy couldn't win an away game against a decent top 6 team to save his life. Ole went 28 games unbeaten away from home with a midfield of fred and mctominay.
It's only because Ole was not some unknown hipster coach with a bald head throwing around riddles about philosophy and process that he doesn't get the respect for the job he tried to achieve at United. And I was fully on board with him getting sacked but to claim he did more damage than ten hag is crazy talk when all the facts are laid on the table. ETH has left us with no legacy signings who will be an asset to the club. He tried to drown Amad's career, a player Ole signed who is now our main man. Martinez cannot be claimed to be of any use beyond being a squad player considering he is too small to survive in the premiership, he left with a Goalkeeper who can't catch a ball and a striker who should have enrolled in rubgy or wrestling as the core of our team.
I'm fully aware of the antony story and the myths surrounding it. He was a ten hag priority while the scouts valued him max a 25 million player as they had scouted him years prior and concluded he was not worth the time of day pursuing. We were working on multiple former ajax targets during that summer and the transfer was ended up being left late because we had mourtough and arnold apparently working until the early hours of the morning trying to kidnapp De Jong, while we wanted to get ten hag his ajax buddies timber, eriksen. There's this misled myth that had we had bid for antony earlier we would have got him for 40 million, which even if true would still be ajax robbing the bank broad day light.
The fact is he was valued by Ajax at 60 million and I've proven that to another poster on here who repeated the same myth and excuses as to why we ended up spending 80 million. There was no reason to even go for a right winger when we already had Sancho, Elanga and Amad at the club and the board did provide him with an alternative to antony in Wijnaldum and he turned it down.
Where are you getting this idea from that Hojlund was not a ten hag signing? They coincidentally share the same agency which Ten Hag's brother is the Co-founder of Seg which is who Hojlund is signed up to. He was reportedly given options by the board to sign Ollie Watkins, Kolo Matani
And yes eth is fully responsible for the de jong saga, since at the time there were reports of him telling the board to continue pursuing De Jong and to do whatever it takes to get him. Bissouma was available for 25 milion that summer and was on the scout recommendation short list. The same way we could have got James Maddison the previous summer for 40 million instead of spending 60 million a useless energy bunny who is injury prone with one year left on his contract
The ten hag era like the theme of your post justifying his wreckage will be remembered for the Era of Excuses and No accountability.
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ETH was a lot worse than Ole, a lot worse.
- Re Mou to Ole continuation - I think more that Ole himself said he didn't change much apart from get rid of the negative cloud and free up Pogba. Also naturally old Ibra, Cavani or Ronaldo is better than Rasmus or Zirkzee but obviously there is a plan to develop. The telling fact should really be that once Ronaldo had forced himself out of the club we could not afford anyone apart from Wout Weghorst on loan.
- We signed 7 first team players pre Ineos (Antony, Mount, Rasmus, Martinez, Onana, Case, Eriksen). I guess malacia as well as a sub if you want to be picky. We loaned Wout, Sabitzer, Dubravka and Amarabat. Ashworth, prior to getting the boot put on record Ineos lead the transfer window just gone. Whilst ETH, we believe, still had a veto, we have it officially that De Ligt, Mazraoui, ugarte, Zirkzee, Yoro are Ineos signings. Where are you getting the 21 number from?
- You are offering a quote as proof? Ok, cool. I will wait for something tangible though. I simply mean he was not good enough and his experience should not have even had him in contention.
- Ironic to defend Ole being a DDG penalty away from a cup whilst criticising ETH for running it close versus Coventry. We won one of those comps. Winning is what counts.
- Bizarre lines about balding coaches, no ideas what you're trying to say.
- We were categorically not offered Wijnaldum for Antony?? The sorry there is simple, we wanted many players and got linked to a load, then went cap in hand back to Antony as he was the only option and paid stupid money. That doesn't mean ETH is not to blame for thinking he was good enough, but the club did the negotiating on all targets.
- Why would Ten Hag go from 1st choice Kane to Hojlund...seems like you're missing the plethora of players in between? Yes there is a shared agent and SEG represents Gakpo as well - we got linked to many players like Rabiot, Dest, Caicedo, Kalajdzik. If you can provide any credible links re being offered those names please do, otherwise I am assuming it's a daily star/espn/talksport piece with no source that just gets requoted by twenty other journalists. There's also the fact that we may well get offered many good players, we just don't know what they were offered for.
- Bissouma, the answer to our prayers. Right.
Yes when Ole had the managerial bounce he said that he didn't change much to the system, that was because he didn't have a pre season with the team
.Also not just cavani, ronaldo were better, but Haaland would have been better who Ole tried to convince the club to sign when he was at molde. Lukaku was also ten times the player of both zirkee and Hojlund who can only dream of reaching his numbers and effectiveness in bullying defenders on the pitch and he was deemed not good enough even though he was deemed not good even we signed him at 24 years old simply due to his bad first touch which people made memes of weekly. Even that guy Igholo was better than the strikers ten hag brought to this club.
There is no develop possible with Hojlund, he's not up to the required standard of a premiership player, you can't teach a 22 year old the fundamental elements on how to control a football, striker instincts surrounding knowing when to make the right runs and be in the correct positions to read the run of play to get off the shoulder of their marker and ariel ability, you either have it or you don't
You asked where did I get 21 players from that was signed under ETH Here you go
Martinez
Mount
Rasmus
Eriksen
Malacia
Wout
Sabitzer
Dubravka
Amarabat
De Lightt
Mazraoui
Ugarte
Zirkee
Yoro
Butland
Evans
Regulion
Onana
Casimero
Biyardi
Antony
21 players signed under his watch
- Let me get this straight quotes directly from Ole's mouth talking about his ambitions of the club is to win the prem is not tangible after you claimed he was lowering standards to get us to accept 4th place while you hold no account for Ten hag's own words of actually telling us straight out of his own mouth that the best we could achieve in his 3rd season after spending over 450 million was top 4?
- Yes because you try to claim winning trophies was some kind of evidence of a successful legacy for ten hag while discrediting Ole for not getting past the line to get the team to win a trophy after losing out on penalties against the same team Sevilla that battered Ten hag's team 5-3 in Europa quarter finals. I'm sure you are a ware there is a difference inf levels between having to beat coventry in a semi final vs having to beat Seville in a Europa final
- My line about being a bald hipster with a fancy name and being unknown is my point it had a huge barring on the perception of what ten hag and Ole did. Ole won league in a bob standard league ten hag was hired off the back of winning the Eredivisie something other frauds like Frank De Boer, Koeman achieved. The difference is when they stepped up in the bigger leagues in italty spain and the prem they were discarded quickly without any drama and without any romanticised version of events pretending they did anything but an awful job,
- We did not put any bids in for Kane, the Board immediately informed eth it was no point pursuing and unntainable due to Levy not willing to sell to a rival in the same league., Man City even made a 100 million bid for him that got rejected how the feck were going to get him? We did not go from kane to Hojlund, several options were served as alternative. Both the athletic and espn reported the man utd hierarchy was interested Kolo Muani as the Kane alternative, but Ten hag was determined to land Hojlund due to liking his characteristics. Mark Ogden who is known to act as a mouthpiece for Man utded is the one who reported that Ollie Watkins was on the boards shortlist but went straight to bidding for Ten Hag's brother's client Hojlund. Hmmm
- The board never suggested Hojlund. This was all down to ten hag. There were even inside reports of several players questioning what the hell he was thinking signing this guy for 72 million after he went 14 games without scoring while we struggled for goals and result
- We enquired about Antony in June, and reports indicate from then Ajax were demanding 60 million for him, he was a priority target we did not offer any bids for the alternative options. We had no business sniffing around for him but the board naively put their faith in ten hag leading the direction
- And yes if you watched Bissouma at spurs and brighton he would have been a much more useful and longer lasting younger signing than a 30 year Casimero who can't even get a game on the bench because his legs are completely gone 2 years later though I never claimed he would be the answer to our prayers
We can't live in a world of players we 'could' have signed. We could have got De Jong or Kane, we no doubt wanted many players we retrospectively should have signed. We did also reportedly go for Haaland when at RBS but would not agree to the release clause. Ighalo was terrible, are you serious or just exaggerating with him?
As said, your list proves the point - you have listed literally every incoming player, including guys like Butland, Evans, Sabitzer etc. and all the frees. Now point to the first team actual transfers. (for ease they are bolded), you can exaggerate all you want but that is misleading in the extreme.
Again, why would I put stock in any quotes? All managers pay lip service, we judge them on what they do.
Awful argument about levels, not only irrelevant - you win what you win and you take the draw your given - but our FA cup route was harder than that having Pool and City. Of course, if you want to make a poor point, you ignore that and keep bringing up Coventry,
I actually laughed out loud at the bolded.
Again, where's the common sense? I thought, for a moment, you might be a bot/AI but the spelling is too poor. We know for a fact ETH did not want Case, specifically because he wanted De Jong (a completely different type of player) so why criticise him for Case and make out Bissouma would be great for us? Just odd and completely besides the point. ETH ended up failing, his last season was woeful, but he won multiple cups and tried to evolve us, much more than Ole ever did.
You weren’t the only one.
Was watching Guy Pearce in a movie today and was wondering why he seemed more familiar than expected. He looks like EtH!! 
And many of us despaired over Weghorst, too.
The difference there was no possibility of getting De Jong or Kane, consider de jong made it clear he was happy at barca and did not want to leave and Levy was never going to sell to a prem rival as evident by Man City's failed attempts throwing 100 million yet they sold him him to Bayern for £84 million and De Jong is still a Barca player. And the club did everything possible to try to get De Jong for ETH, it's well documented they did not back in throwing any bids towards obtaining Haaland when he was at mold.
I listed every including player because they signed for the club whether free or loaned they are classified as signings, that's why when a transfer is whether it be free/loan/fee it's always announced it says player x signs for United. There is nothing misleading or extreme about it because Eriksen was signed on a free we still pay agent fees and players wages
So now it's just lip service, well if we judge them them on what they do then it's clear Ole was leading us to consistent top 4 finishes, considering his first season he finished 3rd, 2nd season 2nd and then things fell apart. ETH's trajectory was 3rd, 8th and blamed injuries and everything for his failings to the point he became a parody. before he got sacked he was 14th, Ole got sacked when we were 8th and that was considered a disgraceful position to be and he rightly got sacked. With ten hag we sat bottom half of the table and he still had legion of fans making a whole load of bullshit excuses to deny him any culpability for the situation. So if you don't want to go by the words coming out of the managers own mouth about their ambitions how about we judge the objective reality of league results and compare the attitude of indifference when ten hag was leading us down a path to nowhere while when Ole was dropping down the table there was no excuses made for him, which you seem to want to ignore.
As for the FA cup draw it was one the easiest ever to get to a final with only Liverpool at home being the big challenge which by the skin of our teeth we got through to a Ole's player while most of ten hag key signings started on the bench that game and did nothing to help him win
Wigan
Newport County
Nottingham Forrest
Liverpool H
Coventry City
He also had one of the easiest carabao cup runs ever to get to win that trophy which you are so proud of him for
Aston Villa H
Burnley H
Charlton Athletic H
Nottingham Forrest 2 leg tie
Newcastle Final
Now you can pretend he performed miracles winning those cups with that kind of favourable run in but really it is not anything special when we did nothing in the league, at least with Ole we looked at one point like we were in a title race. never once did we look like we were in any title race under ten hag. When all is said and done the league is the bread and butter, teams like Wigan, and Leicester City have won Fa cups under managers like Brendan Rodgers and Roberto Martinez, I highly doubt you would want them any where near this club
You can laugh at all you want, I've laughed to myself when I read your claim that Ten hag evolved the squad I mean it is genuinely funny and I don't know if you really believe it or not but it's funny there are still fans left of his who can see the mess we are in and the quality of the squad and believe he was evolving this club
Your point about knowing for a fact ETH did not want casimero once again does not line up with reality when the the Sky interview is still up that he had with Neville where Erik Ten Hag said that the plan was for Casemiro AND De Jong to play together in a double pivot, not that he wanted FDJ and was given Casemiro like what you are suggesting is a fact. The fact is I and you don't know if the board suggested it or if ten hag suggested the signing of Casemiro because there has never been any concrete reports to suggest either and neither
I think any one reading this exchange can see I've displayed far more common sense and objectivity, you've created this fantasy in your head that the eth left the club in a better sitation due to winning domestic cup competitions ignoring all liability of his poor transfers which have now affected our PSR and FFP, ignoring the fact his tactics exposed the weakness of several players in the squad and week in week out we were looking disjointed and conceding over 20 shots per game, struggled to regularly win away games, almost ruined Amad's career did not improve any player but of course he somehow evolved the club more than Ole, even though we're still depending on Ole's signings to lead us forward and you can't name one single ETH signing who is a pivtol asset to the club for the future because the truth is 96 percent of his signings were pure garbage that we are now lumbered with and made us a bottom half team. Make that make sense
Glad you arent making any decisions. Weghorst is the second option behind Brobbey for Ajax.
He wasn’t great but aside from an assist in a cup final, I would say Wout pressed a lot better than our current strikers and that was at least something. Hojlund doesn’t lack workrate but he always seems a bit ineffective on every level and Zirkzee, well, -it’s just not his game to pressure defenders.
At any rate, I kind of hope EtH gets a job and comes back for some of the players he lumbered us with.
I was looking at the list of signings and how much he spent and then considering how he has left us completely fecked with respect to money allowed for new transfers and quite frankly hope the mindless feck never gets another coaching job.
There's some real irony in making up a bunch of stuff, while simultaneously dismissing well documented events that contradict your narrative as "myths". The icing on the cake being claiming to be objective after all that, all in all pretty amusing.
As for the recent rumours, I'd be interested to see him at Dortmund, with the structure there I'd expect him to do quite well.
As for the recent rumours, I'd be interested to see him at Dortmund, with the structure there I'd expect him to do quite well.
So Ole's best achievement as manager at United, was something he did prior to joining in wanting Haaland? I still don't get the relevance of what you're trying to do with this - he spent shed loads on crap, as did everyone else, it's all well and good saying I wanted x, y or z. but he signed who we signed.
I can't tell if you are serious now? Ole was not leading us to a top four finish, he was sacked after 1 win in 7. We have their tenures to look back on - 3rd and 8th + League and FA cup versus.... I'm serious, what are you smoking?
Hahaha you have deliberately missed out the last game of the FA cup run!!!
If you want to go down the 'look at the draw' he had route I wouldn't advise it, Ole went out to Wolves, West Ham and Leicester.
Bit weird for you to laugh at something I didn't write? (bolded)
Of course he said yes to Case, it was him or no one. Well I think we do know Case was offered to United, so unless you think his agent called ETH directly I will go out on a limb to say it was not ETH's specific signing (as is bloody obvious as he wanted a different player entirely).
The self assessment last paragraph is wonderful but I will save space to not clog the thread.
In a nutshell.
Ole and ETH were both hopeless, ETH did more long-term damage.
Between them they have absolutely wrecked the joint. Ole in setting a poor culture and ETH just having no eye for a player or idea on tactics whatsoever.
Ole and ETH were both hopeless, ETH did more long-term damage.
Between them they have absolutely wrecked the joint. Ole in setting a poor culture and ETH just having no eye for a player or idea on tactics whatsoever.
Absolutely not. Rather, my takeaway is that you have a deep dislike to Ten Hag and are absolutely incapable of any objective thought in his regard - and possibly the same for Ole in reverse. I really do not want to spend hours writing paragraphs on this, but a lot of what you're writing contradicts what I've read, or misinterprets or invents things, apparently to be able to blame Ten Hag. Combined with the huge post length, the whole thing becomes a bit bizarre, and so 'common sense and objectivity' really aren't words that come to my mind when reading your posts in this thread.
And no, that's not because I think Ten Hag did a good job at United. All in all, he absolutely didn't.
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Good coach, probably better fit than Amorin. However, an absolute idiotic move to give him any power over transfers/squads.
He should have been kept away from picking the team, tactics (including in game) and substitutions too.
To be fair to Murtagh Ten Hag demanded control over transfers as a condition to join, Murtagh's bosses agreed to that and significant control over transfers he got. I know we all like a boogie man to blame used to be Woodward now it's Murtagh and they have plenty to be blamed for. But can we not also admit that Ten Hag wasted a shit load of money and left the squad arguably in a worse state than he found it?
He's gone.
Let it go ffs.
Let it go ffs.
No where did I claim Ole's best achievements was trying to sign Haaland
My point was to highlight the kind of talent he wanted was aligned to the ambitions of our club. It's not even a contest who signed better players out of the two and that's my point. Of course every manager makes poor signings, even Pep signed flops, but overall you can point to a high list of hits. Ten hag did not sign any hits with the exception of maybe Martinez who looked like a united player for one season, now he's being exposed for his limitations. I could ask you to undertake a challenge to list at least 5 signings soley made by ten hag who have turned out to be a hit, but I won't put you through that impossible taskRead what I said I said Ole was leading us into consistent top 4 finishes considering he finished 3rd, then 2nd in his following full season. I never said his last season where things fell off the rails we were going to finish 4th my friend. He clearly had lost the dressing room by then and his tenure had run it's course
Yes we went out to premier league teams under Ole, he wasn't given the fortune of playing back to back league 1 teams to get to quarter finals
I agree regarding the possibility that Case may be a player who ETH did not personally identify but you claimed it was a fact ETH didn't want him, that was my issue with your point since there is no evidence that ETH was against him being signed. Now you could make a case of ETH not wanting Ugarte and wanting to keep Mctominay instead because there are heavy reports out there that may have been the case.
Anyway I think our debate has run it's course, no ill feelings you have your views I have mine, I don't think we are going to reach a common ground on this since you want to judge things by how ten hag made you feel due to winnng domestic cups rather than looking at the results and date and financial costs which he helped sunk the club, where I like to look at the actual consequences and weigh up the negatives and cons side by side of each manager which shows in the cold light of day the scales weighing heavily in Ole's favour in every department with the exception of domestic cup runs
Not really I don't personally know the guy to dislike him personally, I dislike how conducted himself at the club along with the terrible decisions, gaslighting the fans and the arrogance that followed with it. The difference why I say objectivity is that I can hold Ole accountable for his mistakes i.e indulging in players, apologising to Rashford in public, people pleasing, some poor signings, being one dimensional in regards to tactics and genuinely needing to be sacked by his 3rd season.
The guy I was responding does not want to hold ten hag accountable for anything but rather try to give credit and paint the idea that ten hag progressed the club further than Ole which in my opinion does not line up with reality. during his tenure, everyone from Murtough, Arnold, Glazers, the structure, the takeover, injuries were responsible for Ten Hag's failings and ten hag fed off all that to help deflect from the terrible job he was doing
What you may have read is not always the truth. When you dig deep beyond the big PR, which Ten hag had his agency SEG help him, with you can find out the truth contradicts most of what has been said to absolve him of responsibility when the reality is a of lot of decisions rest hugely on Ten Hag's shoulders. I can back up my points with references, I have not invented anything, one of the things I hate most is misinformation and false narratives. Anyway hopefully that's not too length a post as I know I can write a lot and don't wish to read long essays.
He’ll smash it at the next club he goes. He’s a very good coach who was working in a fallen, toxic club that is set to fail.
I'm inclined to agree, but it's not like our previous managers went on to do great things elsewhere