How likely are Real to move on from Ancelotti this summer?
Erik ten Hag | Currently unemployed
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Yep mate. Actual statistics of Ten Hag doing well this season (and in the CL, which is the ultimate litmus test irrespective of league quality) merit less relevancy than something Pochettino did one time, over 5 years ago. Who, in turn, with his 86 point season in 2016 will revolutionize (sic) OT within one week, singular?
Keep on vibing.
Never read such nonsense. Poch is steaming the French league. Presumably that’s irrelevant though as it’s a farmers league? Ten Hag is barely leading that incredibly strong Dutch League. You’re just sold on vibes. Vibes.
Many of PSG players belong to best in the world overall, and in their positions. And quite some of those can come to a new club and being among the best players at the club and in the league.
You can't say the same for Ajax players, nor other Ligue 1 teams' players.
Ajax players quality gap to other title contenders is much closer. PSG play staffs quality is miles apart.
Ajax was punching above their weight in CL with ETH in 2018-2019. And they have been maintaining a good away record in CL. This season they broke a club record for winning all their CL group games. That's where the hype is about.
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That was a miss quote
Too bad he couldn't do that last season when all he had to do is get a win at either Lorient of Reims(2 relegation candidates). Failed to do so in both cases.
Poch's PSG is a state sponsored juggernaut with a front 3 that costs more than the entirety of the French league combined. Yet Ajax who reached the CL semis with Tadic as the main CF and a couple of kids is pure vibes. The same Ajax team that had to sell all of it's key players only to replace them with PL legends such as Blind and Haller goes on to dominate the CL group like they were playing some Championship games.
Listening to you, if Sir Alex would have been the manager at Aberdeen today, most of you would have wanted Poch ahead of him because he's not PL proven, because he was managing in Scotland, because he won the equivalent of the UEFA cup so that's not a major trophy.
Pure vibes.
Technically, they only need a point from those games.Too bad he couldn't do that last season when all he had to do is get a win at either Lorient of Reims(2 relegation candidates). Failed to do so in both cases.
Poch's PSG is a state sponsored juggernaut with a front 3 that costs more than the entirety of the French league combined. Yet Ajax who reached the CL semis with Tadic as the main CF and a couple of kids is pure vibes. The same Ajax team that had to sell all of it's key players only to replace them with PL legends such as Blind and Haller goes on to dominate the CL group like they were playing some Championship games.
Listening to you, if Sir Alex would have been the manager at Aberdeen today, most of you would have wanted Poch ahead of him because he's not PL proven, because he was managing in Scotland, because he won the equivalent of the UEFA cup so that's not a major trophy.
Pure vibes.
Sorry for nitpicking.
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He's really not. Ask any PSG fan and they would say they've been extremely fortunate to be in the position they are in. Their football does not reflect the gap. In contrast, Ajax are utterly dominating the league and other European football clubs which the way they play. And quite frankly, i'm in agreement with the PSG fans from what I've seen - every time I've seen a PSG match they look very uninspired and reliant on individual brilliance and vibes (reminds me of a certain United manager).
Both achieve about 2.45 points per game in the league. PSG is only leading by such a large margin because no else in the French league is performing similarly to PSV and Feyenoord, so I know you call it nonsense, but the other top teams in the Dutch league are stronger than French top teams (in comparison to their leagues overall).
It is nonsense to claim that ten Hag is doing a worse job in the league than Poch because PSV are getting better results than Marseille.
You're right. I've been debating this subject so much that I already lost count of who, what and where.
Makes it more damning if you think about. All they needed is 1 point from 2 games with a relegation fodder, and yet he failed to do that.
And yet he's somehow a much better than ETH because he got X amount of points Y years ago.
Fer fecks sake, it's like I'm back in 2013 and reading stuff about Moyes and how he overperformed at Everton and made them Top4 challengers despite being on a shoe string budget. Imagine what he is going to do with our budget and team.
If we only knew, yet some people apparently never learn. Same thing with Conte
The biggest mark against Poch for me is his bottle job against Claudio Ranieri and Leicester City - that was probably the only real chance Spurs had at winning a major trophy, and they got beaten to it by a recently promoted side.
The fact some are counting that season as a plus on his CV is quite frankly laughable.
ETH reached the CL semi final with Ajax, and has rebuilt that side that got dismantled and is probably going to go far again - which for me is one of the biggest plus points of his, many managers can build a side, but few can rebuild sides - Poch ran his Spurs side into the ground, and when they hit bottom he couldn't rebuild and was sacked.
Lastly, usually the best course of action is to hire people on an upward trajectory, we have a habit of doing otherwise with the likes of Mourinho, Poch would be the same, he was sacked by Spurs and will likely be sacked by PSG whereas ETH has been respected in all his jobs and has moved on by his own accord.
If we don't go for ETH this summer then it just proves this new set up we have will be exactly the same as the last one, going for the cheap and obvious choices which will inevitably result in the same results as the past decade.
The fact some are counting that season as a plus on his CV is quite frankly laughable.
ETH reached the CL semi final with Ajax, and has rebuilt that side that got dismantled and is probably going to go far again - which for me is one of the biggest plus points of his, many managers can build a side, but few can rebuild sides - Poch ran his Spurs side into the ground, and when they hit bottom he couldn't rebuild and was sacked.
Lastly, usually the best course of action is to hire people on an upward trajectory, we have a habit of doing otherwise with the likes of Mourinho, Poch would be the same, he was sacked by Spurs and will likely be sacked by PSG whereas ETH has been respected in all his jobs and has moved on by his own accord.
If we don't go for ETH this summer then it just proves this new set up we have will be exactly the same as the last one, going for the cheap and obvious choices which will inevitably result in the same results as the past decade.
All good points. I was half joking. Still, nothing compared to Poch’s CV.
Ok, let's get some positive news in here. So far, these are rumors by the Sun and Express so they are to be taken with a shovel of salt.
According to the Sun: United have reached an internal agreement. Apparently Ragnick managed to convince Arnold that Erik is the man for the job, so our board made ETH a priority, despite the majority of players want Poch as the manager.
According to the Express: ETH entourage suggested that he might want to offload Cristiano Ronaldo, as he would prefer to work with someone who is younger.
All in all these are encouraging signs and shows that the club is at least looking in the right direction.
According to the Sun: United have reached an internal agreement. Apparently Ragnick managed to convince Arnold that Erik is the man for the job, so our board made ETH a priority, despite the majority of players want Poch as the manager.
According to the Express: ETH entourage suggested that he might want to offload Cristiano Ronaldo, as he would prefer to work with someone who is younger.
All in all these are encouraging signs and shows that the club is at least looking in the right direction.
Let's hope Ajax draw PSG in future rounds. I'd love to see an Ajax PSG final if we're not going to be part of it. Winner gets the United job. Unless Ajax lose, then ETH still gets it.
Actually I would like anothe semi final rematch. I think ETH would be up for it after the way they got eliminated by Spurs back in 2019.
I just don't buy it, he's too ambitious for the Glazers' tastes. They want a safe top 4 merchant like Poch who can keep us ticking along like late stage Wenger's Arsenal.
He is a good manager but I hope he is also a good man manager who can control our daft players
I don't understand this argument. The Glazers are money men. They want to make money. That is their goal. The higher up the league we finish, the more money they make. They understand that.
It's a business to them. More sponsors equals more money that can be funneled into the squad and you can't say they haven't spent money. They've spent loads. The problem is, they trusted idiots to make decisions on who they bought.
Maybe we're at a turning point with Woodward gone and Ralf coming in to consult. We won't know until the summer I guess but I think things are looking brighter.
If on the other hand they end up appointing Rodgers then maybe you're right.
This misconception needs to die now. I am Glazer out as much as anybody, but this idea that they lack ambition is ridiculous. We've spent more money than any other club in World football. The only problem is, they had/have(?) no fecking idea of how to get us winning, not that they didn't provide the adequate resources for us to do so.
Absolutely. It’s so tedious.
First things first: The Glazers do spend a lot of money, United are just quite ineffective at spending it well. That said your point is only true to a certain extent. A top four finish and a decent (let's say quarter final) CL run is possible to get with a lot less money than actually winning the title, the law of diminishing returns kicks in here. This is why Arsenal (who needed the money to build their stadium) only aimed for top four finishes, as it was much more cost effective than trying to actually win the PL.
United is in a weird place as the money spend should see them close to City and actually battling for the title, but are so badly managed that they have to fear for top four.
Good postToo bad he couldn't do that last season when all he had to do is get a win at either Lorient of Reims(2 relegation candidates). Failed to do so in both cases.
Poch's PSG is a state sponsored juggernaut with a front 3 that costs more than the entirety of the French league combined. Yet Ajax who reached the CL semis with Tadic as the main CF and a couple of kids is pure vibes. The same Ajax team that had to sell all of it's key players only to replace them with PL legends such as Blind and Haller goes on to dominate the CL group like they were playing some Championship games.
Listening to you, if Sir Alex would have been the manager at Aberdeen today, most of you would have wanted Poch ahead of him because he's not PL proven, because he was managing in Scotland, because he won the equivalent of the UEFA cup so that's not a major trophy.
Pure vibes.
PSG have a huge advantage due to being backed by Qatar. I honestly think most coaches would win the league at PSG. They have the several of the best players in the world and their wage bill reflects that.
I find it bit odd that this is continually thrown at Poch as a bad mark, but never mentioned when talking about Klopp or Guardiola or indeed any other premiership manager in 2016.
I'm not a United fan so not too bothered who you get, but I just think that's an odd criticism that I see quite a bit of.
Why would Guardiola be blamed here when he was Bayern manager in 15-16?
Klopp came mid season when Liverpool already out of sight of title challenge. Top 4 was a uphill battle for him too, which he also failed, after spreading the team for League Cup and Europa League (making finals for these 2 competitions).
I personally keep comparing Wenger Arsenal 2nd place position to Ole's last 2 seasons. Surpassing Poch at the end, but Arsenal was no where close to title challenge. It was the eye of the storm before thing came crashing down hard the following season.
It's because I think most people would agree that was his peak and yet it still wasn't enough.
For me personally, he had the best striker in the league and a much better squad than that Leicester team, so it says more about him as a manager. I can see why people think it's a harsh criticism though.
Without the ball, how does his team play? Do they press like madmen?
Just look at that stat - 69 goals scored and 5!! goals conceded. In 22 games.
I don't care it's the Eredivisie.
Get him the day after they win the title.
And get him anything he wants.
I don't care it's the Eredivisie.
Get him the day after they win the title.
And get him anything he wants.
Too bad he couldn't do that last season when all he had to do is get a win at either Lorient of Reims(2 relegation candidates). Failed to do so in both cases.
Poch's PSG is a state sponsored juggernaut with a front 3 that costs more than the entirety of the French league combined. Yet Ajax who reached the CL semis with Tadic as the main CF and a couple of kids is pure vibes. The same Ajax team that had to sell all of it's key players only to replace them with PL legends such as Blind and Haller goes on to dominate the CL group like they were playing some Championship games.
Listening to you, if Sir Alex would have been the manager at Aberdeen today, most of you would have wanted Poch ahead of him because he's not PL proven, because he was managing in Scotland, because he won the equivalent of the UEFA cup so that's not a major trophy.
Pure vibes.
While I generally I agree with you, I believe you have to consider that implementing your ideas is much easier if you have a young and hungry squad that is eager to prove themselves and can't wait to follow your instructions. It is much harder to do that if you have many divas in your squad that require tactical adaptments. Tuchel's PSG e. g. didn't look nearly as cohesive as his Chelsea, Dortmund or Mainz sides although it was probably the best individually.
That being said it was still more cohesive than Pochettino's PSG. IMO signing him would mean settling for good but not the best while Ten Hag would be more ambitious: He's less proven but also brings along the possibility of being a truly world class manager in the league of Guardiola, Tuchel and Klopp. Without one you won't compete with all three of them - because even if one has an off season like Klopp last year, the chances that all three bottle it is almost zero. So IMO Pochettino shouldn't be an option for you although he's a decent manager
I think they'd drop him like a stone if a desirable, top class manager comes along. Whether they would want to give ETH a try I'm not so sure. That type of appointment isn't generally their sort of thing. I'm just guessing though, so could be wrong.
When people ask what are his weaknesses, well tonight's game was as good as any to see them.
I'm not sure if it's an Ajax thing or it was Ten Hag's instructions, but those suicidal attacks at 2-1 when Benfica were defending in a low block and hitting them on the counter is as good as any.
Instead of stopping the attacks and focus on retaining possession and containing the opponent, Ajax were acting like they were 3-1 down.
I think both ETH and the players got a valuable lesson today. If stuff like this might work in the Eredevise, in the CL or PL you will get punished severely for it. Hopefully Erik can learn from his mistakes and the current match was just him trying to appease the Ajax fans by playing the "Dutch way"
I'm not sure if it's an Ajax thing or it was Ten Hag's instructions, but those suicidal attacks at 2-1 when Benfica were defending in a low block and hitting them on the counter is as good as any.
Instead of stopping the attacks and focus on retaining possession and containing the opponent, Ajax were acting like they were 3-1 down.
I think both ETH and the players got a valuable lesson today. If stuff like this might work in the Eredevise, in the CL or PL you will get punished severely for it. Hopefully Erik can learn from his mistakes and the current match was just him trying to appease the Ajax fans by playing the "Dutch way"
Seems like he is not a tactical flexible manager. Didn't watch the game, but didn't seem like he put on a tactical masterclass. Either way, they were playing away from home. They will have the advantage going into next leg
I agree, wasn't his best match, that's for sure. Poch would have handled this game much better in my opinion. But despite that I expect them to get the job done in Amsterdam.
Ole would walk all over him just as he had Guardiola's number.
This Ajax team was put together with probably less than Harry Maguire's transfer fee or not far off.
He's a superb manager. If we don't snap him up another big club will soon. He's too good to stay in Holland with all due respect to them
I love this guy but he is becoming quite the bottler in Europe after his 2019 miracles.
Eliminated by Getafe and Roma in EL for the last 2 seasons after failing in some tough CL groups.. Now Ajax walked the GS but it is not enough, they have to beat Benfica.
Eliminated by Getafe and Roma in EL for the last 2 seasons after failing in some tough CL groups.. Now Ajax walked the GS but it is not enough, they have to beat Benfica.
Guardiola consistenly beat Ole after his first season.
Let's not get carried away shall we. Not his best night, and he still got a draw at Benfica while dominating most of the match. Let's have this convo after the return leg.
Yes but did you actually see how they consistently broke down that low block. Ajax should have been 4 or 5 goals up. They attacked so beautifully I dont know what else manutd are looking for. Team created tons of chances. What is most amazing is he is using very very average players but they play in a system. Both goals conceded were literally own goals. First goal haller messed up. Second goal, the keeper spilled the ball back to the striker. Ten hag is what people think pochentino is.
He is a good manager, but I would love to see him coach at a tougher league before I can see he is a great manager. Aletico madrid should be a good place for him after their fans has been used to the negative dull football by simione. Eredevisie is probably one of the worst league of the top league as even the Portuguese league had two teams made the knockstage of the champion league. So, it is really hard to judge him based of his time there. I know his Ajax team isn't worth much but that only matters in the champion league because his Ajax team is worth much more than his competitors in Holland. Let see his response at home.
Yea poch is more tactically flexible. He would have either consistently dominated the game through possession and high pressing as show against Madrid or set up more defensively and catch them on the counter. But, regardless, eth is used to playing in the Eredevisie, so I can't really fault him for continuing what works over there
It's not a ETH thing. It's an Ajax thing. You should listen to Gullit ( I think it was Sky) when Ajax beat Spurs in the first leg. All the British pundits thought they would defend the lead. Gullit laughed and said No. He said they will play exactly as they play. They didn't believe him. They played exactly as he said and lost 2-3.
I hope we get to play them in the next round. Would see how Ten Hag do.
I hope we get to play them in the next round. Would see how Ten Hag do.