Want to believe he can make us competitive in top six games again, obviously that's not enough to challenge but would be a start.
Erik ten Hag | Currently unemployed
- Thread starter Panther
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Want to believe he can make us competitive in top six games again, obviously that's not enough to challenge but would be a start.
Moyes and ole were punching way above there weight. We didn’t ruin moyes, he just wasn’t ready or good enough for a big job. We only hired mourinho and LVG because of there name and being supposedly biggish managers. Ole got the job because he use to play for us and he had an incredible run when he took over as caretaker. To be fair though Solskjær got the most out of the squad and we’d probably be doing a bit better with him in charge still right now… changing managers has damaged the team because we’ve gone from a team that was use to the style of play and then bringing in a manager that wants to completely change it and try to press… it’s not worked and it’s cost us far to many points. Obviously Solskjær needed to go though but it makes you think would we of been in a worse position then we currently are now under rangnick?
Yeah and there is another month of games yet
Yeah he's gutted like all ex Utd players
If we can beat all the teams we should be beating and at least challenge the top teams then it puts us in a good place. It’s annoying coming into the big games and us always getting battered and outplayed. We need to shut klopp and guardiola up by taking the game to them. There always saying we park the bus and counter against them.
Yeah one day they won't be able to say that about a Utd team again, however could be a little while off
Moyes has taken about 5 years to be respected again and spent time at Sociedad and Sunderland a shell of himself.
LVG retired until Holland got desperate for someone half-decent
Mourinho has gone from being a world class manager to has been managing a Serie A 5th place team.
Ole is out in the wilderness
And Ralf is just getting through to the end of the season.
I think we've gone off track slightly, and i'm probably to blame for that. But i'd like focus on Rangnick and his work as a Sporting director at Hoffenheim/Redbull clubs.
And I didn't say the job he did was easy at the clubs he was at, but we have to acknowledge that the clubs he worked at as a Sporting director were financially doped up which is a advantage against the competition. Now that doesn't mean things were easy for him, but what did he do at those clubs apart from bringing in scouts etc that made a big difference to the clubs he worked at? And what he did at those clubs was very simple, and that was to align recruitment towards a guiding principle which focused on signing players for a attacking brand of football with counter pressing capabilities.
So he was the driving force behind that push to sign players for a high octane, highly intensive brand of football. And that also required him to make sure the recruitment departments below him were functioning at optimal levels.Because he knew if the departments below him didn't function to a high level, it would effect his work as the Sporting director. Because believe it or not, the recruitment teams below him did the bulk of the work when it comes to identifying players. And the players they were targeting were mostly young players who were either 16/17, or second contract players who were 2 or 3 years older.
So it was a particular idea which Rangnick implemented at the clubs he worked at which required everyone to work towards in a uniformed approach to recruitment, which was the key difference towards the success he had as a Sporting director.
And where did he get the idea to work in such a way, where a uniformed approach to recruitment became a big part of his coaching and DoF roles? He got those ideas from his mentor/adviser Helmut Groß (controlled chaos and the Stuttgart school) who is the person that is the architect behind the approach in question, and he's been a consultant to Rangnick for decades. And it's a simple approach, that even Liverpool adopted under Klopp, and their recruitment team led by Michael Edwards, which was widely ridiculed is now the envy of Europe. Edwards whose reputation was at all-time low after several failures was now deemed a genius.
The above tells me that the DoF concept is very simple. And hence why it's important for the DoF to hire the head coach and not the board. Its also easy to understand why top clubs hire DoFs from within the club, and hire the guys working below the DoF in recruitment from outside the club utilising headhunting firms, which both Rangnick and Murtough have used.
We must have given him reassurances he’ll get £££ to spend, as let’s face it, he was probably in with a good shout of Bayern/City in the next year or two.
These yankee leeches always spend bigger when we don't make top 4, however reins are back on when we qualify again
These things could be looked at from another perspective and there's no way the Mourinho we got was world-class.
Those managers just went back to their level before. Their reputations weren't enhanced but United hardly wrecked them either.
Yeah have said it many times we needed to get Mourinho in 13 not 16 after he was burnt by second Chelsea sacking
I had a dream that it was 2024 he became Barcelona manager in 2022 and won everything with them.
Then Man Utd paid out his Barcelona contract and hired him.
Hope that helps
Then Man Utd paid out his Barcelona contract and hired him.
Hope that helps
Great response. Thank you for the context. I've honestly learned a lot from your posts and your understanding of the operational structure at the club
Who did we just sack in 2024?
Pochettino gotta be
Solskjær was capable of going on a decent run of form though… could of easily got out of the bad form. Where as now we can’t even win a game at all. Not even against relegation battling teams.
Lay off the cheese before bed
Ole didn't have a reputation before the United job. If anything, his profile was raised through his time there.
You're right, but no other big or even mid level club in one of the top leagues will touch him. The United experience has done nothing for him
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I think he showed this season he couldn't get out of the bad form.
We don't know that yet.
I simply don't see it. He seems relaxed and no one outside United or outside England as a whole ever took him seriously as a coach from what I've seen. It seems it was United or bust for him. We shall see
That may be but then that also means that he himself may not actually be trying to land one of those jobs.
And how much he was taken seriously is relative. He may never have been considered good enough for Man United's reputative status, but everyone could notice that he did a decent job there for almost three seasons.
Be interesting in the future to see how another club coped under Ole’s stewardship, alongside Woodward as director of football.
Ole did better than Lampard at Chelsea, and it didn't stop him getting the Everton job. It wouldn't shock me either if he turned up at another club one day in the not too distant future after the inevitable sack.
Robin van Persie!
Nothing wrong with the mentality the coach needs the right tools to get results. Pep, Conte, Klopp.
We are not saying they have to get their own team BUT they need the right profile and if there's currently no players that fit that, then you buy a lot and hope a few youngsters can supplement that.
We have not done a proper rebuild/clear-out/whatever you want to call it. Look at our team from the Everton loss 3 years ago and don't be under any illusion - talking about change and actually doing it are two different things.
As for making our players tick, we know that. It's social media, shitty adoration when they play against farmers for England and non-football accolades from the Queen. Seriously, you cannot man-manage people who are not even trying or sticking to a professional standard.
I'd just wonder whether Murtough might feel crowded, what with a deputy Football Director being sought as well.
That's a shame. Just desperate to see this player power flipped on its head.
The deputy is needed mate, because otherwise the workload is going to be too much for Murtough.
All the top clubs have two people overseeing the entire operations side of the football club.
If a more reliable source comes out with that line - ten Hag wants Rangnick in the hierarchy - could he be that person?
Main two names that seem to be linked for this role are Mitchell and O Boyle
He could be, but I doubt he'd want to be deputy. He's also got his own consultancy firm with Lars Kornetka, which he'll probably concentrate on.
But if I'm honest with you, we don't really need Rangnick to stick around. What we need is the new head coach to come in and embrace the recruitment department, which I think will happen now that Murtough has been a key figure in the identification process for the new head coach.
Our issue previously has been that the new manager has been appointed by the board and the manager has been allowed his own recruitment staff. That has then spawned other problems because there hasn't been a buffer between the board and the manager/head coach. And the buffer is the DoF and the team recruitment staff working under him.
Am I right in thinking Mitchell has vast experience and O'Boyle not so much?
That's one of them, definitely. Another has been the importance of profile over performance ability, and Louis was absolutely right (though he did a disastrous job in the market for us) we're first and foremost a commercial entity. The most important thing to set out a long-term vision is absolutely get rid of every negative influence in the dressing room and every player who cannot fit with the demands of the new manager. And that unfortunately has a lot to do with people higher up than Murtough et al. Given how candid Rangnick is, and that he's a bit of a free agent after this spell, I could see him being used as the fixer for the manager - i.e. someone who will continue to be transparent about what needs to happen from the point of view of squad management.
If we shed 10-12 players from the squad this summer, it will genuinely give ten Hag the opportunity to get the rest to buy into his vision. If he's saddled with most of these players, it's impossible.
Moyes was never good enough for United, and he got the Sociedad job which was a similar level of club as Everton.
Mourinho already had a terrible season with Chelsea before coming to United. Still got the Spurs job.
Ole failed at Cardiff before joining United.
Who would ever put all their eggs in one basket, on a coach who at 52 has never coached in a top 3 league before? Thats suicidal for any board member. We bought a bunch of players under LVG and there were practically useless under any other systems. And were tough to dispose of after LVG's departure.
Besides its always easier to buy a play than to get rid of a player. So to shed 10-12 players in this summer is pure FIFA Manager.
Van Gaal tbh with you was happy with the way the club was structured when it came to recruitment in his own words. His problem was that he wasn't happy with the scheduling of the preseason tour to the USA and he felt it hindered his preparation for the new season. The following season the club cut the tour short and even cancelled a game in California to shorten travel time between games to appease LVG, but it wasn't enough to appease him. And that's where his frustration stems from, and why in his words we're a commercial club.
Every signing made under him, was his signing, and it was reported that he gave the go ahead for all the signings made. He name dropped di Maria in a press conference, telling the press he didn't have a player like the Argentine in his squad. He also raved about Falcao in a press conference and lavished praised on the Colombian as someone that was a world class striker. He got rid of Danny Welbeck to make room for Falcao, and as it transpired, Falcao turned out to be worse than Welbeck. He signed Rojo and told MUTV that the reason he signed him was due to the player impressing him in the world cup semifinal when the game in question between his Dutch team and Argentina was analysed in the aftermath, and Rojo impressed him and his analysts in that game.
I honestly don't believe someone like ten Hag will have a problem with the preseason tour and he'll juggle both the tour commitments and preparation for the new season comfortably. Unfortunately for Van Gaal he had a problem with that. But LVG's biggest problem was that he was given total autonomy on the football side and not only were his signings questionable, he also got rid of several players that were winners under Fergie and was trying to bring through youth via the youth team that wasn't very good to begin with imo.
Sir Alex Ferguson retired, again