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- Nov 1, 2021
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- 449
What I find funny is 90% of the forum was on the ETH bandwagon before he got here. And vehemently so, treated him like the next Pep/Klopp.
I don't think this is the 'gotchya' you think it is.
What I find funny is 90% of the forum was on the ETH bandwagon before he got here. And vehemently so, treated him like the next Pep/Klopp.
How am I trolling?How did a professional troll manage to become a staff member of the biggest football forum in the world. Surely no one is this delusional?
The point is a bad managerial appointment SHOULDN'T do that much damage, not if you have the right structure in-place to ensure continuity. We've obviously lacked that previously but I think moving forward should be less of an issue.In my book thinking that any other PL manager could do a better job isn't close to rational - the vast majority wouldn't have the dressing room for more than a few minutes at best, and the pressure of the United job would crush them. Rangnick was highly respected, and he lasted 45 minutes before the squad discarded his approach.
But even if that were the case, those managers aren't gettable. Emery isn't gettable, at least not now (possibly at the end of the season, although there are lots of candidates I'd have above him for that). McKenna is probably feasible, if expensive, to get immediately, but he wouldn't come as a caretaker so it would have to be a permanent appointment, and I'd suggest there are huge question marks over whether he could cope with the United job. But I'm open to being convinced - what is it about his CV that suggests to you he's ready for the job?
As for the so what, I think you're underestimating the damage that a bad managerial appointment can do. Once we've sacked Ten Hag, will you see his tenure as no harm done? I highly doubt it, and if I'm right then by your own logic "so what, sack him and move on" is a dangerous approach. For sure it's one I don't agree with, I'd much rather us do some succession planning and bring in managers we expect to succeed, rather than setting the bar as low as "worth a shot".
The bit in bold is, once again, a deliberate misrepresentation of my point. It seems to be a common theme with posters who want the manager gone immediately, a rather tedious refusal to discern between "literally nobody better" and "nobody immediately attainable that is worth not waiting for the summer when we can bring in a top manager", which is much closer to my position.
As to your point that our knowledge base is limited in comparison to Dan Ashworth and the other execs, I agree. But those knowledgeable folks have opted to stick with Ten Hag. If you want to defer to their knowledge for choice of manager, well they've chosen the incumbent. Nobody is infallible of course, but you can't make the appeal to authority only when it lines up with your thoughts.
I don't think this is the 'gotchya' you think it is.
What point are you trying to make here?
He is stubborn. He won't change a thing. He expects to do the same thing again and again and expect different results.if ETH is smart he’ll change his tactics/system. Arne slot told everyone how to beat us in like 2 mins. He broke down our tactics and knew how to get around it.
Yeah its not a gotcha at all.
My point was we can all think a manager is a perfect fit, and it can still not work out. There's no perfect candidate. There's no manager we need to blindly back in a "long term project", with the hope it works out(say with McKenna). We need to stop looking for the next SAF, its just not viable.
We need to hire the right guy with the best credentials, and see how it goes. Fire him within a year or two if things are not working, and rinse and repeat. That's how most top clubs operate.
And Newcastle 2 years ago. I don't have an agenda. I'm just trying to state that those titles are basically 2 or 3 good games. It's not like we went head to head with the best and time and again we presented an amazing front. It's 3 games in 2 years.You don’t mention we beat Liverpool and Cheaty to win the FA cup. Also, we were the better team in the FA cup final the year before. I guess that doesn’t fit your agenda.
The point isn't to downgrade Klopp, as I said I like Klopp a lot and rate him very highly. The point is to not overestimate Klopp in 2015 when we evaluate managers in 2024, it's a bit silly to suggest that Klopp is a no brainer in 2015 compared to the potential managers that are Enrique, Tuchel or Inzaghi because their achievements are at least very close to Klopp's in 2015.
How not to run a football club. It’s a complete circus.
Just sack the man and get an alternative in since you’re clearly completely unconvinced by him considering you spent weeks sounding out alternatives before deciding to stick with him - and preferably do it silently and without briefing the media every 15 minutes?
How am I trolling?
Our new structure is professional. They wouldn’t be doing their job at least having a conversation with him if they were planning to have a new guy next season
Will keep a look out. I’m so disillusioned with him, I’m not really taking in games on a tactical level because I don’t believe in anything he’s trying to do anymore.You can look at it from a pre Xs and Os point of view and it doesn't actually hurt. Also I don't know if it helps but I think that I had an epiphany the other day but it's kind of frightening if I'm right. The way the team operates is meant for Cruijffs 334, with the for being a sort of diamond and 33 being relatively narrow.
So in possession it would looke like:
De Ligt---Casemiro--Martinez
----------------------------------------
Mazraoui-Mainoo--Dalot
----------------------------------------
---------------Bruno
Amad---------------Rashford
--------------Zirkzee
Now this is a very difficult thing to do, because by default you purposefully leave lots of space and has many coverage rules to follow and it requires a lot of running as Bielsa has shown with his 3331. It's also better if you have someone like Blind as your fullback than Dalot. If I remember correctly there is some similarity to his 2018-2019 Ajax team with De Jong dropping to form a back three and Tagliafico-Mazraoui operating as wingbacks more than normal fullbacks.
No serious ownership can be that stupid to not take into account the way United have been stylistically playing and performing on the pitch since around March 2023.
I think most, pundits and fans are surprised how poorly he has performed in the PL. Don't think there were many who predicted it to be as bad as it is.What I find funny is 90% of the forum was on the ETH bandwagon before he got here. And vehemently so, treated him like the next Pep/Klopp.
People said the same about Benitez joining Everton or Chelsea. I'm not saying it will happen or it could, but you need to rule out the possibility of it happening by at least asking the question instead of assuming it won't happen.I'm pretty sure it'd be the most impossible managerial appointment you can think of.
Read my post. I’m talking about having a conversation.There's probably a thousand reasons why this is close to the single most unlikely "signing" in the entire footballing world, and if you can't see that I must reevaluate my second sentence. Should Liverpool call Alex Ferguson and say "Hey we have a good thing going here, why don't you join us?"
Unless you also think there is a world where that could happen, I don't know what to tell you.
Will keep a look out. I’m so disillusioned with him, I’m not really taking in games on a tactical level because I don’t believe in anything he’s trying to do anymore.
How not to run a football club. It’s a complete circus.
Just sack the man and get an alternative in since you’re clearly completely unconvinced by him considering you spent weeks sounding out alternatives before deciding to stick with him - and preferably do it silently and without briefing the media every 15 minutes?
I’d assume this sort of approach which involves a) micromanaging the coach’s every move and b) briefing the media every morning on your current feelings about the coach can’t be conducive to convincing a decent alternative to take up the job either.
Many managers have fecked up their legacies in the name of money and a promise of a bigger legacy elsewhereKlopp will be fecking up his whole legacy at Liverpool if he joins us. He will never do that, for obvious reasons.
Sort of. But in last years thread one of the most bogus of many bogus reasons given for why ETH deserved more time was because Wilcox and Ashworth would 'rescue our football' and force ETH to coach a better style and change his tactical approach.
Completely oblivious to the fact that technical and football directors are not tacticians or coaches. They dont devise how the team plays. They influence the 'game model' only by choosing managers and coaches who have the playing philosophy they want. And then signing players who also fit that style.
Which is why Wilcox wanted ETH sacked, and why Ashworth will want him sacked, if he doesnt already.
As Dan Ashworth said in an interview, you can't keep swapping out managers with different styles and expect the club to be successful soon after.
Maybe the reason ETH kept his job was that they couldn't find a suitable manager to match the style they want and gave him a shot after another window.
I could be wrong, not sure but I'd agree with Ashworth anyway.
As Dan Ashworth said in an interview, you can't keep swapping out managers with different styles and expect the club to be successful soon after.
Maybe the reason ETH kept his job was that they couldn't find a suitable manager to match the style they want and gave him a shot after another window.
I could be wrong, not sure but I'd agree with Ashworth anyway.
I've yet to see evidence that Ten Hag even has a style. If high pressing and sharp transitions is what we want then there are plenty out there who can do that. Nagelsmann, Rose and Iraola are three examples.As Dan Ashworth said in an interview, you can't keep swapping out managers with different styles and expect the club to be successful soon after.
Maybe the reason ETH kept his job was that they couldn't find a suitable manager to match the style they want and gave him a shot after another window.
I could be wrong, not sure but I'd agree with Ashworth anyway.
As Dan Ashworth said in an interview, you can't keep swapping out managers with different styles and expect the club to be successful soon after.
The excuse will be that Berrada, Ashworth and Vivell weren't there to make the decision. We definitely weren't in constant communication with them. The truth is that our flashy new team of experts dropped a massive bollock here.Wasn’t this what the post season review was all about? Surely a whole season is a big enough sample size to determine whether or not this managers style is the way forward or not? We’re now at risk of writing off yet another season while the folk in charge dither about for months before inevitably sacking him mid way through the season. He’s now in his 3rd season, he isn’t suddenly going to change up and start playing a completely different brand of football.
Klopp will be fecking up his whole legacy at Liverpool if he joins us. He will never do that, for obvious reasons.
It's been 3 games, even if it gets to 10 games season isn't over. Look at Chelsea who ultimately ended up finishing above us despite spending good periods of time in the bottom half of the table.Wasn’t this what the post season review was all about? Surely a whole season is a big enough sample size to determine whether or not this managers style is the way forward or not? We’re now at risk of writing off yet another season while the folk in charge dither about for months before inevitably sacking him mid way through the season. He’s now in his 3rd season, he isn’t suddenly going to change up and start playing a completely different brand of football.
I mean they literally weren't there to make the decision. Ashworth has openly said that.The excuse will be that Berrada, Ashworth and Vivell weren't there to make the decision. We definitely weren't in constant communication with them. The truth is that our flashy new team of experts dropped a massive bollock here.
The manager has had to face issues but he seems to be making it worse with his style of football. That’s not getting the best out of his resources but being too stubborn to not try and get the best of what is available to him.We played a more defensive brand of football under Mourinho & Ole, and look where that got us. And yes, the scatter gun approach to buying players which we’ve seen for the past decade has resulted in a squad not fit for a big club like Manchester United. That’s not exempting Ten Hag from criticism, but describing the reality that any manager at the club will have to deal with.
brailsford and blanc are the ones who primarily made the indecision in the summer, with advice from Wilcox (who wanted ETH sacked)
Coincidentally the two Ineos board members who are responsible for Ineos sport doing so badly at everything they try.
We can only hope the only people making football decisions from now on are Wilcox, Ashworth and Berrada. Ratcliffe should only be acting on the advice of those 3 or we definitely won’t get anywhere.
Did we? I don't think so, at least under Ole we scored more goals and we had some good periods. We played more conservative football but that was to our strength. I certainly don't think we're playing more attacking football now. We're pressing higher but that doesn't translate in anything other than tennis matches.
Bravo!! That's the spirit.The poll is now 83% in favour of sacking. The same poll was around 65% when he won the cup, in favour of him staying.
3 games at the start of the season shouldn’t dictate the heavy investment and the trust we’ve shown towards him. Atleast waiting till we are 7-8 games in to get a fair idea whether this is going towards something good or not.
Not like we are anyways winning the league, if we get a suitable replacement with 30 games left, we can still hope for top 4.
Why?
While that is true, the same should be said that 1 game at the end of the season shouldn't have dictated the heavy swing towards 'keep him' that it did. That was the anomaly, not what is happening now.The poll is now 83% in favour of sacking. The same poll was around 65% when he won the cup, in favour of him staying.
3 games at the start of the season shouldn’t dictate the heavy investment and the trust we’ve shown towards him. Atleast waiting till we are 7-8 games in to get a fair idea whether this is going towards something good or not.