The latest story is that ETH wanted to sign Amrabat and INEOS blocked him, nuff said
Erik ten Hag | 2024/25
- Thread starter Cheimoon
- Start date
Eventually you get tired of starting every new season in a crisis
Back slowly climbing to 20%. As I’ve said it will be at 20% by the time we play Southampton and will get to 40% if we somehow scrap a win there, or even a draw.
The best argument brought out so far is that we couldn’t replace him with anyone better hence he needs to stay. Basically with any other manager that you could replace him with you need a 100% assurance that they will do well, but to keep the current underperforming one you don’t actually need him to do well, it’s enough for him to simply be here until that 100% guaranteed success comes up (and if they don’t then he’s free to make us progressively worse for as long as he likes).
The best argument brought out so far is that we couldn’t replace him with anyone better hence he needs to stay. Basically with any other manager that you could replace him with you need a 100% assurance that they will do well, but to keep the current underperforming one you don’t actually need him to do well, it’s enough for him to simply be here until that 100% guaranteed success comes up (and if they don’t then he’s free to make us progressively worse for as long as he likes).
I'm not ignoring the point, I'm simply rejecting your notion that a manager can be a guaranteed success or a complete unknown, with no middle ground. There are obvious ways to analyse a candidate to get a good picture as to whether they will succeed here, chief among them looking at their achievements and experience to see if it matches up to what we need.
With regards to the bold, can you back this statement up? We've had a few names in this thread, but the only managers people have been able to articulate reasons for that I've seen are Tuchel (who has legitimate question marks), and De Zerbi (a terrible suggestion, who fortunately isn't even available). I've named managers I think would be better, so I clearly don't think it's impossible, that's yet another strawman.
But if you have a name and a case to make, then I'm all ears. I can easily be convinced by a well made case for an available replacement.
These type of posts are always good for a chuckle because they always try to present sticking with Ten Hag as the "sensible" route - when largely most metrics suggest otherwise.
"Look at the early thread. Full of confidence in the manager"
This forum had a poll with +70% votes choosing "sack" for a couple of weeks until the FA cup win. To me it sounds like people have just been brought back down to the harsh realities - rather than the cup win high they were on.The big dogs have, in fact, just made it known they were not involved in the decision to keep this guy around.
Don’t disagree with your points except the last one which is an argument I don’t think anyone can use. Put simply, Ashworth and Berrada were not in office when Ten Hag was kept. They may have been working behind the scenes, sure, but legally they would get in a lot of doo doo if they openly say “yes we made that decision”. They aren’t distancing themselves from Ten Hag, they are distancing themselves from not honouring their gardening leaveThese type of posts are always good for a chuckle because they always try to present sticking with Ten Hag as the "sensible" route - when largely most metrics suggest otherwise.
"Look at the early thread. Full of confidence in the manager"
The big dogs have, in fact, just made it known they were not involved in the decision to keep this guy around.
No, you don't sack your manager after three weeks. But it's not just three weeks, is it? We were horrendous last season and somehow look even worse this season. We all expected Liverpool to be a tough opponent, but we also all thought that we could at least compete with them for a respectable 1-2 score. We also thought Brighton were there for the taking, but they took us. Yes we did take Fulham, but barely, and their manager rightly believed he should have gotten something out of the game.
The performance of the manager has been discussed at length here and we're not going to recycle all the arguments but there does come a time when the obvious has to be responded to and it's obvious that we've gotten off the horrendous start this season. We can choose to applaud the same manager for making the same mistakes match after match and watch us get mugged match after match, but at some point there comes a time when club management have to take control of a squad the manager has lost control of. With who and when I have no idea, but most of us are not interested in seeing us drift into a relegation battle -- that I have no doubt we will survive but it's still embarrassing to struggle against relegation fodder -- while we wait for the manager to see his tactics vindicated.
If something is broken, it's usually best to fix it.
“Why sack Ten Hag, there isn’t any manager out there available that can do better!”
Tuchel
Xavi
Rose
Potter
Allegri
Sarri
Glasner
Iraola
Frank
Spalletti
These are all managers who are better than Ten Hag tactically, who are either available tomorrow, or can be bought (for pocket change vs the current INEOS investment into the club).
Not all of them are brilliant, but they are all much better than a manager who has not put a good 90 minutes together in the domestic league since March 2023.
Tuchel
Xavi
Rose
Potter
Allegri
Sarri
Glasner
Iraola
Frank
Spalletti
These are all managers who are better than Ten Hag tactically, who are either available tomorrow, or can be bought (for pocket change vs the current INEOS investment into the club).
Not all of them are brilliant, but they are all much better than a manager who has not put a good 90 minutes together in the domestic league since March 2023.
Again, it's not my job to negotiate with any new manager or club to get in a replacement. There are replacements available even within the PL, but how do you or I call that out as feasible? You think only available managers are obtained? That has shown to not be the case so many times, yet you want me to tell you of an exact name, someone who is free immediately, to get around to sacking Eth.
As I said, that excuse to not want him sacked is not even worth discussing, because even if a name is given you would not be able to say if he is obtainable or not.
Heck at this stage we are looking like we will have a similar season like the last one, might as well get Ole back. At least he will get us to play counter attacking football well. Right now, I don't even know what we are good at except for turning over possession and doing nothing with it.
I wouldn't put Spalletti on the list.
He's a mad man, both character wise and tactically.
Sure, that's likely the intent - United would be in trouble if the guys that weren't supposed to be working for us then were saying "oh yeah, we were in charge of that". However, that information - as presented in the article - was volunteered - and with us being three weeks into not the bestest of starts to the season, opens up other interpretations. The optics are different.
Regarding the interview, it wasn't a ''vote of confidence'' after three games. That leads to misinformation and that is twisting the narrative. This was an interview BEFORE the Liverpool game. Questions were asked, and answers were given.
Take some things into consideration;
• INEOS first season
• Last season, everything was the Glazer's fault. This season narrative is changed to Ten Hag's responsibility
• There's elements United are playing better, the results don't show that, though
• 3 goals we conceded were down to terrible and amateur individual mistakes, nothing to do with tactics
• The Liverpool defeat - Slot didn't change anything, why is it a shock Liverpool bet us?
Also, remember the following;
• Two years ago we were humiliated by Brentford and Brighton in first two games, we went on to finish third in PL and two cup finals
• United is like a big ship, it needs to be steered when waves are high, and there was a lot of waves Ten Hag had to deal with
Have some calmness, we all share the same thing on here, our love for United. Let the new players fit in, give the manager space to breathe, let the injured players return. One thing fans are good at, every time a new game comes, the spirit is always there at OT. Just be chill, it's week 4 of the club after being completely restructured.
After all, Ten Hag is not Harry Potter
Not giving him any space to breathe when I want to see a manager appointed who can get us playing a less counter attacking brand of football. The thought of him being here until the summer because of waiting for better candidates fills me with complete and utter dread. We will definitely have to rip up midfield for the next manager when they actually value possession which Erik clearly never will.
We can definitely save the rest of this season if INEOS do the right thing and pull the trigger before November, fully expect him to navigate his way through to another stay of execution by getting results against Southampton and Palace, probably Spurs too who can be very up and down.
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Exactly what we need, some fecking energy!
Exactly what we need, some fecking energy!
Yeah Erik has absolutely zero charisma
The way I see it, United's business over the summer is all about rebuilding. They will expect better than last season in PL, and it's crazy to suggest a sacking after 3 games. Whole club was a mess, and a lot of changes were made, you can't expect everything to be perfect straight away. Especially against Liverpool, who have everything right for years now. To answer the question, if there's not much progress by the end of the season, then maybe it's time to part ways.
I agree and I am with you on that. The club is rebuilding and it's year 1, it's about the changes the club have made behind the scenes and on the pitch. No need for a freak out with the manager after 3 games. Didn't see this whole crisis talk of him last season, it was the Glazers to blame. Now it's after changing from Glazers to blame to Ten Hag all of a sudden.
It's year 1 under INEOS. How much deadwood was sold this summer? A new backline pretty much bought. One midfield reinforcement who didn't play yet. A huge change to the squad. The club is rebuilding.
Answer me this. Were you happy with the two City performances? We beat Fulham, unlucky against Brighton. Liverpool, well yeah they were shite. But Liverpool have had it together for years. So out of 5 last games, only one performance was diabolical.
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Look lads, maybe I am overly positive, but some on here are completely negative and it's not actually as much as a crisis than what you seem. Things are looking up. We might be at a slugs pace but we will get there.
If United wanted another manager they would have gotten one. Managers and clubs make deals all the time over managers. If they desperately wanted a new manager, they would have gotten one. They wouldn't wait a year or two.
Well, I'll be at the Spurs game so hopefully they do win!!
People don’t feel like “making a case” for something that should be relatively obvious as to why a large amount of managers would most likely improve on historically poor metrics and results (and performances).
Youre basically just saying “prove it” as a defense of why any number of managers wouldn’t be an upgrade on ETH. I can do the same thing back and ask “why do you think there isn’t a single manager out there that would be an improvement, prove that he’s better than all of them” but it’s disingenuous on both sides because you quite clearly rate him very highly and I quite clearly think he’s a complete fraud, except you don’t seem to want come out and flat out say it.
Oh Christ we’ve resorted to “it’s year 1 under INEOS” which is almost as bad as blaming the Glazers selling the club for why Ten Hag can’t properly coach a cohesive OOP structure
Would you give back the win against City in the FA Cup if it meant Ten Hag got 100% sacked and got a chance at some of these names ?
What exactly have you seen over the past 2 years that suggests he can improve us? If he stays another season and we finish 10th you ok with that cause that’s a very real possibility? Literally every team has a measure of us now and we will struggle to even go to Ipswich and a get a result.
You forgot a few things and you are obviously confused about a few other things.
The "leading man" - philosopher Ten Hag - didn't arrive in the summer. Three years have passed. The optimism has eroded in those three years.
To say that the loss to Liverpool has switched opinions is bold. So he wasn't ready to be sacked after the cup final? Do you remember how many wanted him gone last year? He is only here because he won that final. Oh, and what happens, when you turn 360°? Where do you end up?
So: no, the loss to Liverpool has not changed opinions en masse. It has just confirmed that a) nothing has changed, b) philosopher Ten Hag is not fit for the job and c) our manager is delusional (watch the pressers before and after the game).
If most comments aren't logical, what about your comment right here? It certainly is not based on reason, that much is certain.
When people like you refer to the new era that has just started, what do the years before mean to you? I mean specifically the years of failure under philosopher Ten Hag.
Yeah, you don't fire your manager after three weeks, but three years of crap...it is long overdue.
Your attempt to colour critics as ridiculous cannot be taken seriously by any reasonable person.
If we finish 10th, of course that warrants a sacking. We are just 3 games in and one was Liverpool, which we weren't expected to win anyway.
How would you rate his first season? Was third place, first trophy after a 6 year drought and FA Cup finalist a good season?
His second season. Club ownership in absolute chaos, imagine not knowing what's happening with your job, your staff, who your boss will be etc... A little before that he had to deal with the Ronaldo saga. Then an unmerciful amount of injuries. Imagine trying to implement a playing style with a different back 4 with 30 different combinations? How would you have handled that?
Season 3 - first one under INEOS. Big clear-out - 5 new signings. Still waiting on injured players to come back.
Also, we are a YOUNG side. That's something nobody seems to understand either.
People keep saying it's his third season, it's 3 PL games in.
You can't judge a season until probably 10 games in. That gives enough time to have the squad proper fit and sort out the injury problems and new players fitting in to the team, the League and in some cases, a new country for them.
Too many United fans thinking we might as well keep Ten Hag unless an obvious name becomes available, it's ridiculous and suggests that some are in denial about how bad we currently are. If we can't have faith in Ineos to find a suitable replacement who isn't necessarily a big name or an obvious choice then they're as useless as the last guys.
I'm Ten Hag out as much as the next fan, but I don't think I'd be happy replacing him with many on that list. Potter? Sarri? We'd be back at stage one again soon enough. A lot of them don't even have a more impressive managerial pedigree then Ten Hag and like him have only managed in farmer's leagues.
Id maybe take Tuchel but I don't think his style aligns, don't want that back 3 nonsense.
2 years and a couple months have passed since he took over as United manager. He joined July 2022.
The club were doing a review. Was he likely to be sacked? I'm sure it was very close to it. But they came to a conclusion he is their best option. Otherwise he wouldn't be here.
The first year was good, year 2...yes that was crap. You can't count his third year as being crap when it's not even a month into the season.
I'm stating my opinion. We obviously disagree but I am not trying to irritate everyone. Just because there's a different opinion. It is a message board.
We all follow the same team and we all have different outlooks on things.
I respect everyone's opinion but I'm not going to change my belief on something just because I'm in the minority.....the minority that is actually engaging in conversation.
Anyhow, I won't be commenting further on this thread, I'm new to the forum and don't want to give off the perception that I'm trying to ''irritate''.
I just really hope we win our next game. Don't let me down, Erik!
No. You are advocating for anyone who wants ETH sacked should also name his replacement. Which has been pointed out that we do not possess the knowledge for that. I/we do think we do have the knowledge to see ETH is failing and we are underachieving. So I want him gone and expect INEOS/Ashworth etc to know who to get. Just because I can't make a replacement doesn't mean there's no one. Otherwise teams would never move on from any manager
You already saw the reaction when the journalist started talking about pressing and losing the ball in the press conference. He asked the journo if he was sure that was what was happening because we defeated Man City in a cup final.
Even at his best he never got us to play the kind of football you would expect from a contender. Most of our big wins were achieved while playing underdog football (the kind of game you could easily see Wolves or Everton pull off on their best day), which in his first season was somewhat understandable given relatively poor quality of squad at his disposal but it hasn’t really progressed. We are far more likely to get outplayed by a bottom half team than we are to outplay a top half team. We’ve lost 4-0 to Brentford and Palace under him, and should have had more losses similar to that, while we have barely had 3 convincing wins over top half teams.
I wouldn't be mad at a punt on Iraola and Frank and Glasner wouldn't be terrible outside shouts, don't know much about Rose, but much of that list has already been found out at the top level really and I wouldn't go near. It's not an easy job we're talking about here.
Tuchel is very good but a bit of a prick and I don't think we're set up for a 343.
Ronaldo saga was unfolding Dec 22, I don’t think it gives him an excuse for a season which started 9 months later, likewise bringing 5 new players (some of which won’t even start, it is realistically 2 or 3 first team players) should not automatically mean he’s allowed to be horrible again for entire season this year. You are not expected to perform worse because you got new players, the whole point of bringing them is to get better not worse.
Having two first team players out is not a valid excuse either, but we’ve already seen it last season, apparently he is the only manager in the world that absolutely needs all his players available to perform. Even a single injury can derail his genius plan greatly.
At this rate we will never run out of excuses, and frankly I don’t even know why people feel they need to keep on doing this for him. We do not owe him anything yet you’d think he is more important than the club to some.
Aww...what a cruel punishment for such a legendary manager. I mean wasn't it harsh enough for him to have been given a free run to convert our club into his Old Boys FC. Man he must really hate INEOS.
Just suggesting names of perhaps more successful managers isn't what we are doing anymore though, is it?
The club needs to determine the framework a manager will need to fit into, including at least a clear style of play.
I understand that upgrading a player with a better player we can afford while remaining within our budget is a sensible move. But in the case of a manager, I think that's not a good move. I think we can afford any manager out there. So, we're not restricted as we are with players.
Hence, I think we're better off using the stability the club is starting to regain, to take the time to plan, evaluate and then hire the most suitable manager rather than simply upgrading to one of the available options. Perhaps we will sign one of your listed managers but I'd prefer a thorough selection process no matter how long it takes.
Where was the luck against Brighton? I don't recall any bad referee decisions or freak injuries. We were mugged by the better side who deserved their victory over us. And if the response to that is that we had chances but couldn't finish, my answer to that is finishing is a huge part of the game. We need to be able to finish, control midfield, defend and stop savable shots -- any objective analysis would have to conclude that we are poor at all four of those qualities.
We've been struggling since the beginning of last season and so far, this season looks like a continuation of what we witnessed last season. That can change, but what we have seen so far is what it is.
I was happy with the FA Cup win over City, but we abandoned what ETH has been trying to do and it worked. What he's been trying to do won't work with this squad. Rashford is not a pressing machine, nor is Hojlumd, nor is Garnacho or Amad. Mount is a pressing machine, but if we play Mount we have to drop an attacking player and it's not going to be Bruno. And even for those 10-15 minutes when the front line does press we leave huge gaps in midfield for the opposition to carve us open. The players and the tactics are a mismatch and no tinkering with Zirkzee or Yoro or Ugarte is going to change that.
With a bit of good fortune I can see us getting past Southampton but this is not a side under this manager anyone would argue is favored to beat Palace, Villa or Spurs.
Our players must be daft indeed to not be able to change tactics so easily. How long does it take a manager to imprint his vision on the team?
We can't keep giving excuses for the Fraud that he's not had a proper squad at his disposal in the first season. He's had the support in terms of transfers. No one put a gun to his head and asked him to get Onana and Antony.
How does ETH deal with the mentality issue that we clearly have at this club? I thought we brought a specialist person in for that kind of stuff.
"one was Liverpool, which we weren't expected to win anyway."
Why do people say this?
It's Ten Hags 3rd years after spending 600m+, yes I expect him to beat Liverpool! How low are the expectations at this point?
Doesn't make much sense (what you are saying). You claim to support every manager but are now actively asking for the current manager's sack?
I never said they're fact. I said they are way more credible than you and they're not the only ones who said this
Il ask again, multiple tier one sources have explained how INEOS work and not just Athletic, but Teg Hag and other journalists have corroborated each other.
Are you saying they're all wrong? And you're right because of your wonderful analysis that a couple of them are Dutch so there's no way INEOS could have endorsed them?
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I don't know why you guys are still replying to the Hilton poster He keeps regurgitating the same rebuttal over and over again. The onus isn't on us to decide who ETH's replacement is. And even if we, the supporters, pick a replacement, we can't guarantee success. Us supporters have neither the financial pull or vast connections to check the availability of each possible candidate as well. What we DO know is things that are happening right in front of our eyes and it's bloody grim. It's bleeding obvious that ETH is out of his depth and supporters have every right to call for his sack, and it is the board's job to start re-evaluating and source for a replacement, not us.
He keeps regurgitating the same rebuttal over and over again. The onus isn't on us to decide who ETH's replacement is. And even if we, the supporters, pick a replacement, we can't guarantee success. Us supporters have neither the financial pull or vast connections to check the availability of each possible candidate as well. What we DO know is things that are happening right in front of our eyes and it's bloody grim. It's bleeding obvious that ETH is out of his depth and supporters have every right to call for his sack, and it is the board's job to start re-evaluating and source for a replacement, not us.Especially at home. fecking embarrassement the EtH apologists at this point