I'm not actually entire sure about that but this should not even be up for a debate, we've spent half a billion since he left and largely on players that ETH handpicked himself.
Erik ten Hag | 2024/25
- Thread starter Cheimoon
- Start date
We are 117 games in
Of course the management are going to say they are fully backing him, what do you expect them to say, that he's shite, hasn't got what it takes and his tactics are complete bollox?
If they came out and said all that, it would resonate right down through the team. ETH would give up, the players would down tools and the whole club would be in free-fall until the next manager comes in.
What you need to look at are Sir Jim's/Brailsfords working practices in other organisations. Brailsford himself has said many a time, when in charge of Team Sky, that such-and-such a rider has the full backing of the team, then come the end of the season they offloaded them. They did it with Chris Froome after his accident, said they backed him in his recovery, which they did, but when the decision came to keep him for the following season, they didn't hesitate to move him on.
I wouldn't take what they say with too much importance. Yes, they probably are backing him right this minute, but come Christmas, or the end of the season, if ETH hasn't performed then make no mistake, they will offload him.
It actually makes it easier to offload then than now, because right now he can always say he never had a chance to see what the new signings could do, but if the club back him and he still fecks up, it's a lot easier for them to get rid because they gave him what he wanted and still didn't deliver.
Make no mistake, the pressure is on ETH to deliver.
If they came out and said all that, it would resonate right down through the team. ETH would give up, the players would down tools and the whole club would be in free-fall until the next manager comes in.
What you need to look at are Sir Jim's/Brailsfords working practices in other organisations. Brailsford himself has said many a time, when in charge of Team Sky, that such-and-such a rider has the full backing of the team, then come the end of the season they offloaded them. They did it with Chris Froome after his accident, said they backed him in his recovery, which they did, but when the decision came to keep him for the following season, they didn't hesitate to move him on.
I wouldn't take what they say with too much importance. Yes, they probably are backing him right this minute, but come Christmas, or the end of the season, if ETH hasn't performed then make no mistake, they will offload him.
It actually makes it easier to offload then than now, because right now he can always say he never had a chance to see what the new signings could do, but if the club back him and he still fecks up, it's a lot easier for them to get rid because they gave him what he wanted and still didn't deliver.
Make no mistake, the pressure is on ETH to deliver.
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He's probably going to still get good jobs outside England simply because he's managed to create an aura of a serial winner around himself. He has arrogance of a top manager whilst being a pretty mediocre one, but that should still get him by for a few years post-United (not that I expect his post United to occur imminently, I think he will somehow push through for another 2-3 years here).
I think some have already decided to write off the previous two years (except trophies, which still matter).
Moyes and Jose had success in the league at other clubs though before United.
LVG, Ten Hag have only failed at United and Ole failed at Cardiff too. I don't think we'll ever see them manage another PL team.
We very easily beatable under Ole?
Who takes over? Is it RVN he will get maybe a new guy bounce that may not last. Who else is there to come in. There's plenty out there in the press ex players etc who have the answer.
He will be gone by December if the results do not improve and RVN imo will take over as interim boss as they put it.
Only 1 ex player I'd go for who's been there before and has got some more experience is M. Carrick
He will be gone by December if the results do not improve and RVN imo will take over as interim boss as they put it.
Only 1 ex player I'd go for who's been there before and has got some more experience is M. Carrick
I backed him after the FA Cup final, but I’ve changed my mind about sacking him because I can’t see him turning things around with the current squad.
Some things are entirely on ETH—like the way Mainoo lost the ball for the third goal and the positioning of his teammates, which must come from the manager. However, there are also things beyond his control, like going into a second season relying on an unproven teenager from Serie A to lead the line.
As a club, we’re paying the price for a decade of terrible recruitment. The problem with bad decisions is they compound over time, like interest, and undoing that mess will, unsurprisingly, take a lot more time.
We need a coach who can get more out of the current squad instead of pretending we have the quality to play a high-risk strategy. Simeone would be my pick.
Some things are entirely on ETH—like the way Mainoo lost the ball for the third goal and the positioning of his teammates, which must come from the manager. However, there are also things beyond his control, like going into a second season relying on an unproven teenager from Serie A to lead the line.
As a club, we’re paying the price for a decade of terrible recruitment. The problem with bad decisions is they compound over time, like interest, and undoing that mess will, unsurprisingly, take a lot more time.
We need a coach who can get more out of the current squad instead of pretending we have the quality to play a high-risk strategy. Simeone would be my pick.
Under INEOS game model, under the new coaching staff and from this reset above ten hag, we are 3 games in.
Really? I didn't know that.. It's a spoiled surprise then.
The game model which doesn’t exist and the coaches who follow ETHs orders
Exactly. How do people not see this is what is supposed to happen?
Someone comes in to do a job and hit specific targets, they continually fail. You replace that person.
If that next person fails to hit those specific targets you replace that person.
If that next person fails to hit those specific targets you REPLACE THAT PERSON!
You do this into you find the right person that HIT'S THOSE SPECIFIC TARGETS.
Why are we seemingly the only club that goes "nah, we don't do that around here"? Is it to feel morally superior?
All the while the guy we didn't sack is making us worse while the teams that actually replace their managers are seeing vast improvements.
Madness.
INEOS took over in February mate
Yes but they fecked up to get their people in position in time. So it's true that we are only three games in under their chosen leadership. Everything before was just headless confusion because no one was (formally!) in office to do stuff their way. Same goes for the new coaching staff. It's fair to acknowledge that.
On the other hand it's obvious that none of those changes caused any significant changes on how the team sets up. As everything around him changed that leaves EtH as the main culprit for that, so it's also fair to criticise him for it heavily despite only being three games into the new setup.
More chance him growing a Mohican than win every game before Xmas.
Good points, but it's unfair to state EtH has 'only failed at United' when he's won honours across two seasons.
They maybe not good enough for United, fine, but it is not 'only' failure and such would stand in his favour if an Everton, Fulham or Brentford were keen.
Jose still has success at EPL level remember (who can forget his remarkable feat of taking United second?), but I'd imagine another EPL side would want EtH over Jose or Moyes, especially as he is in someway coached in modern pressing methods.
The 'specific targets' you allude to would be an Alex Ferguson-style era of dominance. Ineos know all too well such is unobtainable with those they interviewed in the summer and are wisely keeping their counsel.
If you want to slightly improve and keep the social media satiated, go back to OGS, or better promote RvN. He gets us.
Furthermore, we do not 'feel morally superior' (sick of 'moral' being viewed as a pejorative) it's much rather Ineos reading the game rather than cave into fan pressure (what they're accused of doing by EtH's myriad critics).
United not being a 'sacking club' is a compound
myth, up there with de Gea's fax fiasco and Rock of Gibraltar being the reason we got Glazered.
We've sacked everyone not called Alex or Matt.
It seems like a straight-forward fix to change the tactics. Possibly drop Bruno or tell him he can't play in midfield anymore and must be far closer to the striker like Scholes in 2002/2003 season and drop the wings as they're not good enough in the 4231 formation. And put extra players in central midfield. Mainoo and Casemiro can not continue together by themselves in midfield. They are a disaster every time waiting to happen. Mainoo is better suited further forward or possibly with two other central midfielders sitting behind him. I find he's a risk every time taking the ball from the defence in our own half. Casemiro is just past it and done. Get rid.
David Moyes had enormous PL experience and punched above the weight with Everton - completely different case to ETH, Moyes had a more difficult job overtaking from SAF, too. If I were a mid-table club I'd take Moyes over ETH every day of the week.
Jose is a legend of the game whether we like him or not and one of the biggest name of the last decades. Again, completely incomparable to ETH.
What ETH has going for him is indeed the trophies, but if you were Palace/West Ham/Brentford would you really consider a guy who yes managed the FA cup, but was absolutely clueless in the league and outschooled by majority of other managers? No individual brilliance to bail you out there and no players to score worldies when your tactics don't work. Ability to make hard decisions maybe yes, but it only worked for few months, didn't it? I believe he will be more remembered for his average-bad man management, having his own favourites and inability to drop certain players even if they're completely out of form. Add to that he is really unlikeable and some clubs/fanbases wouldn't conveniently close their eyes when he is borderline insulting the journalists and blaming his shortcomings on everyone else. So yeah, he might score another solid job, but if I were an owner of a Premier League mid table club I'd definitely steer clear and that's what I think will happen.
I don't know about the aura of a serial winner and who buys into that, but if you say so. Of course, there's plenty of good jobs outside England - he can end up in the likes of Besiktas or Ludogorets or just come back to the Netherlands. Not sure he's very much respected in Spain (I think he's mainly remembered for bottling that semi final against Spurs), from the Italian crowd I've always been asked how come United ends up with another fraud in charge, so I'm not certain about his stock there either.
Not at all what I meant, it's my lazy writing. Ole had United in his CV and it did not help him get another job. ETH has United + Ajax and some second grade trophies to his name, but setting his teams to be very beatable will make it difficult for him to find another PL job.
But many here seem to think that its only silverware that counts and not statistics, performances, or league positions. That's why, despite the damning stats last season -- the number of (negative) records that ETH broke last season was staggering -- they defended him.
I don't think that's true, to be honest. It's pretty obvious to me that Ole was offered jobs, but didn't want to take one just for the sake of it. I think he's been at a point ever since his sacking where he would only take something that really interests him, and if that offer never comes, he's content with enjoying his life and he's still involved in football anyway: he has a job at UEFA, if I'm not mistaken.
So yeah, he probably wasn't offered the managerial role at top clubs, but he 100% was good enough to stay in the Premier League and I'm sure he would've done that if his heart was in it.
I mean, just right now, there are quite a few managers in the league who aren't really any better than Ole..and the likes of Lampard and Gerrard could get gigs too, both of whom Ole is miles clear of.
EDIT: I think ETH will end up in the Bundesliga if we sack him. I'd bet money on that. I doubt he'd even want to stay in the PL, unless he was financially motivated to, but I doubt it. Probably a top half Bundesliga side would be his most likely destination.
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Mourinho is one of the greatest managers ever (and his spell at United was quite a bit better than that of EtH). Moyes is probably just as good/bad as EtH, but he had showed that he can grind results for mid table/low-table teams.
EtH’s team get murdered in weakly basis despite having more resources than probably any other team except City. Imaging with half of resources, he would guarantee relegation.
Like Ole, this job will be his last in EPL. Will probably get back Ajax though, which seems is a good match.
Ahh ok I see. So regardless of the absolute omnishambles of last season (which is mainly down to him, because if you're going to credit him with the FA Cup win you also have to credit him with our worst ever PL position) because club takeover was happening ETH gets a free pass?
Understood.
I swear some of you actually don't want Manchester United to be successful.
Carrick hasn’t been particularly successful in championship. If we want to hire some unqualified manager cause he has United roots, than hopefully we hire some talented one like McKenna (whom to be fair will be damaged goods by the end of season).
I have a crazy idea but would it not be great to see a team of:
Heaton (I don't rate Onana trying to save anything, he's dreadful)
Mazraoui
De Ligt
Maguire
Shaw
Ugarte
Martinez (Yes play him as a DM)
Mainoo
Fernandes
Eriksen
Hojlund
I'd love to see the above, with the wingers completely dropped and 3 ball playing midfielders playing behind the striker.
Bring Amad and Garnacho on if chasing the game. I don't miss anyone not in the above team, i.e Rashford, Casemiro, Dalot, Onana, Mount.
Heaton (I don't rate Onana trying to save anything, he's dreadful)
Mazraoui
De Ligt
Maguire
Shaw
Ugarte
Martinez (Yes play him as a DM)
Mainoo
Fernandes
Eriksen
Hojlund
I'd love to see the above, with the wingers completely dropped and 3 ball playing midfielders playing behind the striker.
Bring Amad and Garnacho on if chasing the game. I don't miss anyone not in the above team, i.e Rashford, Casemiro, Dalot, Onana, Mount.
Don't waste your precious post quota on trying to reason with that lot.
Looks like you completely misunderstood me. No, my point is that EtH should NOT get a free pass despite only being three games in under new leadership.
The fact that the same tactical issues still exist prove that they were not due to a lack of preseason or whatever excuse his fans come up with, but simply because that's what he wants and we see again and again that it's just not sustainable.
Three years from now he will still be 2-3 games in since X (just input whatever happened those 3 games prior, e.g. you have moved from a player A to player B in a certain position) and you won't be able to assess him. He will slowly reach his retirement age and we still won't be able to judge him.
But but but the new leadership!
What??? We should be happy that they managed to get in everyone for this summer, with all the gardening leaves and haggling from bitter clubs like Newcastle.
Fair. It is early.
Sorry!!!
Disagree.
Taking over a team of proven Champions, already in the CL with a better negotiating position for new acquisitions rather than the tail-end of Ole/Rangnick and a decade into Woodward/Arnold's 'leadership'?
EtH is essentially taking over from Ferguson, also, that's where he is ultimately expected to travel.
They'd assess his first season as progressive. The second season ended with honours despite being ravaged with injury. Not bad for 'outschooled by the majority of other managers'.
Palace, for example, would assess it so, considering Glasner's primary honour is a Europa League won on penalties versus Rangers. He did indeed beat EtH last season, fair play, but we had Casemiro in central defence that night.
In short, other clubs would assess context rather than hyperbolic over-reactions from entitled supporters of other clubs.
As they've done for some time.
They've got to be either WUMs, Scousers or ultra patriotic Dutch folk at this stage. Or relatives/agents of ETH.
It’s hard for them to back down when they’ve invested so much into him already. He could get us relegated and there would be threads justifying this and proving that nobody could do better.
His system doesn't deserve anymore leeway. I want him out.
Sorry I did misunderstand
What's the context around being absolutely clueless in your third season in charge? Showed up by two managers who've barely even set foot in the league. Brightons Fabian Hurzeler is actually the youngest ever full time boss in the league. Explain the context here, and what makes fans who've had enough, hyperbolic and entitled.
Thats not remotely accurate. We are playing in a different style to last season. It's obviously got its flaws but to suggest it's the same is quite lazy.
Suggesting there's no game model is lazy too.
I think you need to read more into when certain appointments were made.