Erik ten Hag | 2024/25 | Votes can now be changed

[stevoc]

As shit as this is, of course it can be worse. Regardless of what you think the players think. The players he signed in the summer may not get much of a boost.

If it was as simple as some in here think, it'd be fixed already.

It's a tricky job. We've basically had two successful managers in the history of the club (2 managers won 18 of our league titles), to think the third one could be just anybody is wild.

But we don't need someone to replicate the success of Busby and Ferguson to improve on Ten Hag. In fact we don't need another Busby or Ferguson at all.

 

[AneRu]

Yeah my thoughts exactly, might give us time to be a more attractive project for Inzaghi, Amorim heck maybe even Nagelsmann after World Cup

Yes, we need a prolonged caretaker who can manage for two seasons whilst achieving the minimum requirements - top 4 plus deep cup runs whilst Ashworth and Co sort out the squad, the sports science and fitness regimes. There are big contracts that might need moving on, depending on whether the new guy fails to manage them and we need to upgrade the technical level of our midfield, get a striker and LB in.

No but for a couple of seasons while we stabilise he would be ideal. Just depends if he'll go for a short term contract. But I guess we could extend it if he continues to do well.

This, see above. We need someone that can get us to be a competitive outfit again and this will, in turn give Ashworth the time and space to reconstruct the squad and build the supportive amenities like sports science, fitness and analytics.

 

[VP89]

But we don't need someone to replicate the success of Busby and Ferguson to improve on Ten Hag. In fact we don't need another Busby or Ferguson at all.

I think the point being made was we've consistently hired failures post Sir Alex so there's a fair chance we can be in a similar position in 18 months where we are in the market again. No one is against changing the manager but just having careful consideration on the successor rather than immediately sacking now is probably a fair shout.

 

[Herschel Krustofsky]

No he said "judge us at the end of the season, we have had two seasons where we have reached finals".

As if to imply that the last two seaosns were sucessful because of reaching two finals. So get to another and this will also be a success.

Totally negating the 8th place finish and the zero goal difference.

Maybe watch the interviews, then pass comment. Rather than saying "Bear in mind I haven’t watched the interview yet!"

Ok, thanks for explaining, appreciated.

To be honest I’m more interested in the difference between what is said and what folks perceive. And how that is then relayed and becomes an alternative ’reality’ when someone picks it up as gospel and runs with it.

Whether deliberate or not, we’re all liable to put a different meaning on what people say at some time or other. Language can be a lot more subjective than say, a picture, especially when dealing with concepts.

The part of your post I quoted, and your subsequent explanation is a great example. It wasn’t necessary to watch the interview, it pops off the page as implausible.

Anyway, I’m rambling, and have the ironing to do!

Have a good weekend

 

[DJ_21]

My biggest question regarding his reign is and will be; what happened with his tactics and style from Ajax? He got a job based on that and was highly rated 2 years ago because of that.

in United he looked as completely different manager.

Apparently he didn’t have the players to play that way even though be bought half of his Ajax team. He just keeps making excuse. It’s a joke. He even said after the Porto game we’ll look better and have clear style and patterns of play once we get a proper LB back in the team. How can 1 position affect everything. He’s done.

 

[crossy1686]

I think the point being made was we've consistently hired failures post Sir Alex so there's a fair chance we can be in a similar position in 18 months where we are in the market again. No one is against changing the manager but just having careful consideration on the successor rather than immediately sacking now is probably a fair shout.

That's just paying the price for not sacking him in the summer when they had time and options, now it's a case of who's available and who will improve us for the rest of the season and beyond. Even if we do hire a new manager next week, its not a travesty if we decide to sack him in the summer if someone better comes available. We need to stop with this strange affection for managers at the expense of whats best for the team and club overall.

 

[stevoc]

I think the point being made was we've consistently hired failures post Sir Alex so there's a fair chance we can be in a similar position in 18 months where we are in the market again. No one is against changing the manager but just having careful consideration on the successor rather than immediately sacking now is probably a fair shout.

Yes which has been exacerbated by expecting these failing managers to be head coach, general manager and director of football all rolled into one. You'd hope with the hirings Ineos have made that thats no longer the case we simply need a first team coach. And while it's not easy to easy a top class one at any time let alone mid season, we're so bad right now that if the club decide to sack Ten Hag any decent coach with some top level experience has a very good chance of improving perfromances and results. At least in the short term which is fine as they'll probably be an interim coach anyway.

 

[VeryPrecious89]

It is rather preplexing how EtH is unable to instill some of the basics into our squad. In recent weeks we have heard from Benny Hill and Steve McClaren about how he is such a tactically brilliant coach yet we seem to be missing the basics. Where has it gone wrong?

Fixed that for you.

 

[MadDogg]

It was one point better wasn't it?

I actually thought it was more, but yes that's correct.

22/23: Finishing 3rd with 75 points; 58 scored and 43 conceded (+15)
20/21: Finished 2nd with 74 points; 73 scored and 44 conceded (+29)

 

[Jock Steins Boots]

I believe one of the biggest problems for the club and probably for quite a lot of fans, in the last ten years, is that they got fixated on a manager who was going to give them success for another 20 years.
Fergie, as great as he was, also put the club and supporters, between a rock and hard place. His success was so incredible and regular, that it's not surprising that any manager or fan thereafter, was caught in a loop of believing they should keep the momentum going for another decade.

The same thing happened with Liverpool, after their dominance in the 70s and 80s, virtually everyone who was there watching that, still believed they'd win titles in the 90s and 2000's. But it actually took decades for them to win and bounce back under Klopp.

Football has moved on, more clubs have more money and can compete. The 'top four' has now become the 'top six', it won't be long before that becomes 'top eight'. Gone are the days where a club dominates for 20 years now (City's cheating aside).

For me, Uniteds biggest failing is still expecting a manager to come in and produce a team that's going to 'do a Fergie'.
I think the club and fans reality needs to reset and they just need to be happy with a manager that might give you 5 or 6 potential good years, not 20.
I'm not defending ETH here by any stretch, personally I don't think he's up to even 5 years of title hunting.

 

[pocco]

I think the point being made was we've consistently hired failures post Sir Alex so there's a fair chance we can be in a similar position in 18 months where we are in the market again. No one is against changing the manager but just having careful consideration on the successor rather than immediately sacking now is probably a fair shout.

The problem with this is that you and many others wanted him to get the beginning of this season to see how it goes. Do you now recognise why this was an issue? You can't have it both ways. Because you got what you wanted, we are now in a worse position, which was entirely predictable.

 

[Musclehead]

Rene brilliantly exposing ten Hag.

This is a great take.
To add something, especially when you have the best players or close to is, simplify things. Don't make it too complicated.
The skill level will come out and players will add their own creativity especially once they gel together.
I still do not like when Dalot slots in, I get Rene says it could be brilliant, but too many times it stymie's a quick transitional attack on that side and he is not at the level to get back quick enough once the ball is lost.

Thanks for sharing this.

Rene just mentioned he would return if RVN was put in charge, interesting.

 

[JPRouve]

Apparently he didn’t have the players to play that way even though be bought half of his Ajax team. He just keeps making excuse. It’s a joke. He even said after the Porto game we’ll look better and have clear style and patterns of play once we get a proper LB back in the team. How can 1 position affect everything. He’s done.

That's actually not it. I said it from day one, the way ETH setup Ajax isn't his way, it's the Ajax way. He was and still is a manager that favors a more direct approach. Also people assumed that he was hired for us to play like Ajax but those are just assumptions and it was always an ambitious assumption when you consider the fact that Ajax are a very peculiar Football club, they built an identity decades ago and all managers regardless of their past follow that identity.

And the reason I was very positive about ETH was because he perfectly adapted to Ajax and followed the club's and Overmars' plans. The small issue is that I overlooked the fact that those plans are imposed and that people tend to act differently when they are given more freedom, most people only function properly under strigent structures which by the way is one of the things that makes someone like SAF exceptional, he had an incredible amount of self discipline and self reflection, most managers don't they are shortsighted and full of themselves.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

I believe one of the biggest problems for the club and probably for quite a lot of fans, in the last ten years, is that they got fixated on a manager who was going to give them success for another 20 years.
Fergie, as great as he was, also put the club and supporters, between a rock and hard place. His success was so incredible and regular, that it's not surprising that any manager or fan thereafter, was caught in a loop of believing they should keep the momentum going for another decade.

The same thing happened with Liverpool, after their dominance in the 70s and 80s, virtually everyone who was there watching that, still believed they'd win titles in the 90s and 2000's. But it actually took decades for them to win and bounce back under Klopp.

Football has moved on, more clubs have more money and can compete. The 'top four' has now become the 'top six', it won't be long before that becomes 'top eight'. Gone are the days where a club dominates for 20 years now (City's cheating aside).

For me, Uniteds biggest failing is still expecting a manager to come in and produce a team that's going to 'do a Fergie'.
I think the club and fans reality needs to reset and they just need to be happy with a manager that might give you 5 or 6 potential good years, not 20.
I'm not defending ETH here by any stretch, personally I don't think he's up to even 5 years of title hunting.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here in practical terms.

I think potentially when Sir Alex first retired a lot of us were slightly uninspired by Moyes. But we hoped that could be something of a continuation due to his age and him seeming a very stable choice.

By the time he was gone we were pretty happy to hire Van Gaal then Mourinho who no one expected to stay for 10 years (for different reasons).

Then by the time Mourinho went we lost hope in signing the biggest name and throwing money at it hoping we would win the league short term. That's when we moved towards thinking a longer term rebuild was necessary, not because we imagined it would result in a Sir Alex like reign but because we thought it was the only way to get back to where we want to be.

I'm pretty sure almost no Utd fan would refuse a sustained 5 or 6 years of success and competing like you describe. I don't think most of us are pining for 25 years of domination right now, just being a good side that can compete with the best.

 

[Rista]

His football has been crap and you can't defend it and he'll most likely be sacked soon but people saying the FA cup final was lucky just isn't true. Our XG was better on the day, we defended well and, but for a mistake by Onana, it would have been a 2-0 win.

Yeah, so let's just ignore that our first goal which changed everything came from a hilarious mistake that happens once in 50 games.

It was a lucky win in sense that playing like that we win it 3 out of 10 times at most. We did what we had to do but let's not kid ourselves. We had, what, 25% possesion? FA cup win on the whole was extremely lucky. From the luck of the draw to that Coventry game.

I find him extremely unlikable as well but to be fair I've found him this way since the beginning. I remember how after Brentford disaster he asked his players to run 14km in heat to 'punish' them for the lack of effort, which most on here found so incredibly impressive but to me it was a ruse of a glorified PE teacher and reminded me of certain Polish old-school coaches who had these methods, just always found them a bit pathetic.

Guy is so arrogant you'd think he was a prime Mourinho. He literally has all the worst traits of all our failed managers combined together. Incompetence of Moyes, stubborness of LVG and arrogance of Mourinho, with nothing but "his" cups to back it up with. Willing to throw everybody, including the club under the bus just to make himself look better. And somehow people still find him likeable.

If there was a standout candidate willing to come in the summer he'd already be gone.

Plenty of bigger clubs needed a change and made one without too much fuss. But with us it has to be a "standout candidate" that checks all the boxes for future SAF 2.0.