Is it still a bogey team if it only started with one manager?
Erik ten Hag | 2024/25 | Votes can now be changed
- Thread starter Cheimoon
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) are here to talk about United's dreadful home defeat at the hands of Big Ange's Tottenham Hotspur. Should this have been the end of Ten Hag? How long does he actually have left? And does Nik finally want ETH out?!
You’re so close to the point.
In those years we were a relatively successful side - always competing at the top of the table and actually winning the league. So in that context yes, we had a few bogey teams, because they were teams we were expected to beat yet had a few uncharacteristically bad results against them.
The context is just not the same under Ten Hag - we finished eighth last year. If we’re only finishing eighth then obviously we’re getting quite a lot of poor results against quite a lot of teams. That doesn’t necessarily make them bogey teams, because such results are not uncharacteristic. It’s more a symptom of us frequently underperforming against a variety of teams.
Can you see the difference between these examples?
Is it a surprise that the manager we’re performing worse under is getting bashed more than one we did well under?
Games like this happen. We were unlucky to win. I'm not going to criticize ETH over this one. But reality is we have 7 points in our first 5 games. That is not good. Lets see how October goes. But we need to keep pace with the top teams. If by end of October we are looking at a double digit gap between us and leaders, then fire ETH. No one expects us to challenge but we can't be out of the title race before Christmas like last season. That is not progress.
I would be more gracious in my comments if I saw the kitchen sink thrown. The team has no energy in the last 15 mins to try to get something. If we push men forward trying to score, I would be at least know there is an effort. The way ETH plays, it was like we are leading comfortable winning and keeping the ball. Keep go back to Netherlands and stay there. Don't ever come near to United.
7 points in 5 matches..wow! High probability of 7 points in 7 matches if this continues...
Gross. That last line. The best we can hope for… it’s been an 11 year decline. Seriously. There are children, Man United supporters, who weren’t alive when we won our last title. It just kills me that our mentality is acceptance of mediocrity.
I agree we looked better. False dawn or the start of something promising?
Is two a lot in football terms? We needed a complete and full top to bottom reset. Two years from now (since our overhaul in structure) - sure, perhaps a barely reasonable comment.
Jesus fin Christ. Entitled.
Insulting another member
Children - which by judging by the comments on this forum makes up a large majority. Jumped on board when we were successful and expect that to be the norm. Constantly throwing their toys out the pram and having little tantrums; as evidenced in this train wreck of a thread.
Nobody accepts mediocrity - it’s more so that fans with a modicum of maturity accept that change doesn’t happen over night. We needed a total reset, and got one. Things look far better at the moment, irrespective of the results. If it doesn’t work for ten hag, so be it. We’re in a a far, far better place for succession.
I despise the modern football fan base. That includes the majority of you lot. Absolutely, entitled little brats.
Solid away point earned against a rival for a top half finish. If we continue on the current trajectory a top 8 position is within grasp, which should be considered progress.
Ah, the Top Red post. I’ve probably been a supporter longer than you. I feel I have just as much of a stake in the club as you do. Bayern, Real, Barca, Juventus…. They are great clubs because nothing is bigger than the club. No manager, no player. SAF dragged us to this tier one level. Revenues, stadium size, supporter base all indicate we should be much better. History. You can allow for mediocrity, I cannot. Real Madrid has won 15 CL titles. If they are in 2nd or 3rd in the league and complaining, does that make them entitled little brats? I think not.
This narrative comes up every time our attackers spend the whole game shooting straight at the keeper.
Henderson didn't make any saves you wouldn't have expected an average PL-level keeper to make.
The last minutes of the game were the worst. Bad mentality, cowardice. That's on philosopher Ten Hag.
It used to be different. We would try to win the game to the very last second. That was our standard - that special bite, ambition, belief. All gone, coached out of us.
The philosopher's tenure is close to becoming toxic, while fellow Reds fantasize about "a reset needs time", "it's just four games in", "we need to be patient".
Last season's position: 8th.
This year so far: 5 games, 7 points from 15.
Where are we going?
It used to be different. We would try to win the game to the very last second. That was our standard - that special bite, ambition, belief. All gone, coached out of us.
The philosopher's tenure is close to becoming toxic, while fellow Reds fantasize about "a reset needs time", "it's just four games in", "we need to be patient".
Last season's position: 8th.
This year so far: 5 games, 7 points from 15.
Where are we going?
Am really not sure why many of you bang constantly week in, week out regarding him. Once he is gone (and he will probably be gone after this season) you have a pretty much solid team and more importantly one which is oriented on pressing and attacking with numbers.
Obviously, it does't work that well in terms of results, but next guy can tweak few things and go on. I think he will be gone after this season but decision to hire him was the right one. No more nonsense with LVG and putting fully opposite in Mourinho. In the long run I prefer this, being 8th, 6th or 15 on the table.
Obviously, it does't work that well in terms of results, but next guy can tweak few things and go on. I think he will be gone after this season but decision to hire him was the right one. No more nonsense with LVG and putting fully opposite in Mourinho. In the long run I prefer this, being 8th, 6th or 15 on the table.
Yup. Henderson made regular saves and Palace were not very good. It won’t stop people pretending they managed some epic game raising feats to make themselves feel better.
The truth is that we absolutely bossed the take for 40 minutes where our finishing was rubbish and then lost belief thereafter. Liverpool or Arsenal with the same amount of control wins that game becuase they wouldn’t finish so poorly and if they did they wouldn’t fall apart in the second half. We have a problem, mentally as well as in front of goal.
Yesterday showed his style of football can work in the prem against lower to mid tier opposition but he still doesn't have that winners touch for me. Subs are always iffy and doesn't give the team any positive energy.
We've turned into mid-table Liverpool. Maybe we'll get our Klopp one day, but it certainly isn't ETH. I'm here for the rebuild and whatever may come but can't say the result yesterday surprised me.
You don't get to use the 'one of those games' excuse, if that describes most games.
Every point is dropped for individual reasons. Sometimes it's our finishing, others it's our possession, others it's game management and tactics, sometimes it's individual player error, others it might me poor officiating.
We can't absolve managers. Poor form isn't just a coincidental, disparate run of incidents that it would be unfair to attribute to anyone in particular.
Every point is dropped for individual reasons. Sometimes it's our finishing, others it's our possession, others it's game management and tactics, sometimes it's individual player error, others it might me poor officiating.
We can't absolve managers. Poor form isn't just a coincidental, disparate run of incidents that it would be unfair to attribute to anyone in particular.
Can't play Southampton and Barnsley every day, I guess. I think Championship is about his level.
/s ?
Wonderful contribution.
Solid sex with my wife last night after 3 months, if we continue on the current trajectory we should have it 6 or 7 times a year. Which is not a progress but also not upto me so it is what it is.
In fact we played some really good football, the new signings are settling in and are all quite exciting. We should have won yesterday and also against Brighton with a bit of luck. It’s not eths fault that de ligt doesn’t score from a free header or that garnachos shot goes to the post. Just bad luck
Yesterday made me hopeful that the next man will at least have some good tools to work with.
You might have it 6 or 7 times a year, but how about her?
on topic: lets see if the first half is a precedent for our next games. With his subs, Ten Hag disappointed again. He should not touch Rashy with a 10ft pole. He contributed even less than Bruno and that was a miracle.
Honestly if I could go back and change that league cup result to a 1-0 and chalk off 6 of our goals, I would. If we scraped through 1-0 then the man would be closer to the exit door this morning. It shouldn't ever be the case that thumping lower league opposition proves anything, but the margin of the win has given him a few more inches of rope that a lower score wouldn't have.
Yes looked like one, for a period and nothing came if it.
Hopefully we can start sustaining it over 90 minutes and actually start putting chances away regularly.
We're a bit of a jekyll and Hyde side at the minute. Good first half crap in the second or vice versa.
Easy tiger let's not get ahead of ourselves. Let's crack the top 8 first.
Yes, we had a City esque performance in the first 45. 70% possession or so, and many chances created with feck all conceded. Don't try and play that down, in what way was it not dominating like a city team in that half?
PL title is some steps away, it's not a question that can be answered now. Right now I'm asking myself if ten hag can control games and play a style that's deserving of a top club whilst creating many chances and conceding few. If he does this game in game out, the results tend to always follow.
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So far into his time as United manager then you can't just put these games down to bad luck, like you can't put Southampton and Barnsley games as some sort of new dawn, or the Liverpool game as just a really bad off day.
Arsenal this season was not harder than Liverpool. They've started slow in performances and have skimmed teams, playing Spurs without two absolutely vital players to their system. Leicester and Everton are atrocious, Brentford are just a bottom half side same as before, this time missing both Wissa and Toney from last season when they played Spurs.
Liverpool are arguably the 2nd best performing side in the league from the eye test and sheer chances created, playing us with a full squad. Brighton and Fulham are head and shoulders better than Brentford and Everton. Whilst our fixture vs Southampton was essentially the same as their Leicester game.
Can someone with more tactical knowledge explain to me what might be this idea subbing Zirkzee with Rashford? Or Rashford basically needs to plan every game? I can’t wrap my head around this.
Second half wasn't completely crap, agreed after around 65 mins we stopped in our intensity and we were ponderous though. Which clubs this season maintain it for the full 90?
If you put the ball in the back of the net you don't need to maintain it for the full 90, but we failed to do that. We blew our load without actually finishing and then just ended limply.
Exactly spot on. But my question then is why is that a huge criticism on our manager. Unless he's expected to pick up the ball and punt it in the back of the net himself.
If was a good game by all accounts from a performance standpoint. And whilst it was a fizzled away ending, he's at least not showing constant naivety going gung ho and potentially throwing all 3 points in the process.
If we have more games like yesterday from a performance angle I think we won't have a problem for top 4. Finishing is down to quality and it should come. He has his own support from RvN too, and the latter deserves some credit in his offensive automation training drills (outside of finishing of course), as we are knitting the ball together a lot better in the final third.
I think instead of not accepting mediocrity you need to accept reality. Decline was there but I consider Ineos start as break point in this. Hopefully the upward trend will continue.
If we played all game like the first half then I'd be happy even if it still ended up with 1 point. Building a (sustainable) style of play is more important than just one result now.
That said, I am very much worried about what hapenned in second half where we stopped playing football and lost any control after a few players went off. And it's not like we replaced them with youngsters. This drop off was unexpected and worrying.
Beaten a poor Southampton side but made them look like prime Barcelona for the first 30 minutes. Beaten Fulham in the 90th minute. Dropped points in every other league game.
I’m judging Eric on the league only this season and it’s already not good enough after 5 games. Pretty much the same as last season but without the injuries. What’s his excuse now?
This season is already wasted with him in charge. To have lasted 3 seasons, with the money spent to build his squad we should be looking good enough for a comfortable top 4 finish.
Standards at the club have dropped so much.
I’m judging Eric on the league only this season and it’s already not good enough after 5 games. Pretty much the same as last season but without the injuries. What’s his excuse now?
This season is already wasted with him in charge. To have lasted 3 seasons, with the money spent to build his squad we should be looking good enough for a comfortable top 4 finish.
Standards at the club have dropped so much.
And what's your basis for this exactly? This thread is hilarious. Looks like quite a few folks in here would get more enjoyment out of us going on a winless streak than actually winning football matches.Yeah not completely crap. We were alright for 10 minutes after half time.