Yep. He works for that rag, the Northern Express.
Erik ten Hag | 2024/25 | Sacked
- Thread starter Cheimoon
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Yep. He works for that rag, the Northern Express.
In what way is wanting to sack a manager that has been underperforming for over 18 months, has overseen our worst ever PL and European performance over a whole season, has us at 14th with a -3GD after 7 games in the next season and is literally making backwards progress in all metrics since his first season, 'panicking' ?
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I think he's safe until a successor is identified. The hierarchy have sounded out multiple different managers, if reports are to be believed. Ten Hag likely knows this too, he isn't stupid and I'm sure his agent would have connections. Whilst I do think sacking Ten Hag and appointing an interim is more likely to improve performances and results in the short term, I don't think INEOS want to blindly pull the trigger. They will likely continue to identify and approach a successor.
Yeah this is where we're at. Crystal palace have higher standards for their managers than we do.
There really isn't any excuse for INEOS and his sacking looks inevitable either way so I don't understand why the decision still hasn't been made.
I don't know if he was actually given those two games to save his job, or if people just decided that was the case because the Tottenham game was so embarassing.
I think he should be gone now, but maybe they've decided that since he didn't lose those games, it's make or break time for him now.
It's genuine insanity. In the LVG days, the majority of the fanbase agreed he needed to go, even after the FA Cup because of the dire football on display along with a 6th place finish. I fail to comprehend how our football was any better to watch last season? In fact, I would argue it was overall worse when you include all the humiliations along the way. It was absolutely miserable being a United fan and nothings changed. The football is still dire overall and we've already had two big humiliations at home this season.
I just don't understand why standards are so much lower for ETH, who has been backed far more than LVG ever was?
Yep it doesn't help the God awful football how is that motivating to tune into. If we were losing every game 4-3 it would be a lot more bearable but we can't even score bar the Barnsley game. Don't we have lowest goals scored or something equally pathetic
And if he does think his job is at risk we will get even more horrible passing back/sideways/hoof ball. With most of those passes going astray as we can't even pass...
You're telling me that if you wait it out, it won't magically fix itself? Blasphemy
Our situation is basically hiring someone(ETH) to fix a deteriorating roof. Initially, you're happy because there's no holes anymore and from the outside, it looks good compared to what it was previously. Then you realise one year down the line that he's botched the foundation, used really cheap materials and it's all falling apart again. Except now you've spent a fortune buying him the materials to fix it, just for it end up worse than it was before.
I don't believe these reports. Because if true, it's quite farcical. Nobody operates a huge business like that, even the Glazers don't. So it's more likely they have already decided ealrier to give him couple of months. The difference from before is that there are practically no high level leaks so the press is back to pulling stories out of their arses.
Neverthrlesss, It's quite unbelievable to me that he still has a job, but at least that scenario is slightly more plausible than the "these next two games" nonsense.
The way Sir Jims team is handling this is embarrasing, they have known for months he wasnt the right man for the job yet even after our worst ever start to the season they are refusing to sack him.
A great question to which I don't know the answer, but I do have a few theories.
Fear of the unknown. Part of the fanbase is worried about starting from scratch with a new manager. This is not an unreasonable concern. It is probable that whoever we were to bring in would require 2-3 years to rebuild the squad as he wishes and because we've just been through that, with disastrous results, many of us are concerned that it could all play out as woefully under this manager as it has under the current manager.
Patience is deemed to be a virtue. Part of the fanbase sees something in ETH that warrants hope. I don't share that hope but I do not view those who hold out hope for ETH as being irrational. We have the Arteta experience to look to and we have the Ferguson experience to look to as well.
The players are the problem. This isn't much of argument as ETH has chosen the players, but the argument can be made that the players have let ETH down, not ETH letting the players down.
I think if Ineos had have had everybody in place in May, say them coming in was summer 2023, then they would have had a manager already sorted to take over. Who knows? It’s a big ask for Ashworth and Berrada to literally start and a few weeks later sack TH and pull a top manager out of the hat. All the media quotes are probably bullshit
Yeah this could be true but I was talking more in regard to how the poll here was marginally in favour of ETH after the FA-cup win. Elsewhere, it was the overwhelming majority of fans who backed him, which was completely different to the atmosphere around LVG after the FA Cup win.
I suppose winning 2 trophies is seen by some as better than VG 1. the fact we finished 8th should have put everybody off.
Utter nonsense to say the season is over league wise in the middle of October. This fanbase is broken and weird.
Ignore everything you read, and I do mean you, because judging by some of the crap you post in here from twitter, its guaranteed nonsense. No offence.
While I hope he can I just can't see it.
Not yet , however if we get to 10pts difference from top 4, then it really is. Unless some EL qualification from the league would be acceptable to you.
The situations surrounding Arteta's first few years at Arsenal and their respective trajectories are in no way comparable to Ten Hag's.
We can't rebuild the squad again, the club can't afford it. The players are the problem under this manager, so we need to get rid of the manager and see if a new manager can get a tune out of them.
Some of you guys would have had Fergie hung drawn and quartered back in the day. 85% of the season left but if can't get us a trophy or CL football this season he can be relieved of his duties but until then give the man a break.
What would be a satisfactory “turn around” for you guys?
It’s the guy’s 3rd year and the amount of time and money invested - we should be hovering around 3rd/4th whilst playing something. The type of turn around he’d need to make that happen from now til end of the season would have to be incredible. At best, this will be another 6th/7th placed season and that’s being super optimistic - there are some really good teams in the league - you just need to decide if you’d be happy with that
The Fergie excuse again. It's like Groundhog Day in here.
The 11 game run we've played this season is only the fourth worst 11 game run under ETH, with a points per game of 1.27.
Worse runs (with overlaps):
PPG: 1.09, period between 2023-06-03 and 2023-10-03 (across seasons). A run that included 4 wins, 0 draws, and 7 losses. Total goal diff is -4
PPG: 1.09, period between 2023-11-29 and 2024-01-14. A run that included 3 wins, 3 draws, and 5 losses. Total goal diff is -4
PPG: 1.18, period between 2023-11-29 and 2024-01-14. A run that included 4 wins, 1 draws, and 6 losses. Total goal diff is -6
Worse runs (with overlaps):
PPG: 1.09, period between 2023-06-03 and 2023-10-03 (across seasons). A run that included 4 wins, 0 draws, and 7 losses. Total goal diff is -4
Markdown (GitHub flavored):
| **Matchday** | **Date** | **Home Team** | **Away Team** | **Result** |
|-------------: |-----------: |--------------: |---------------: |-----------: |
| Final | 2023-06-03 | Man City | Man Utd | 2:1 |
| 1 | 2023-08-14 | Man Utd | Wolves | 1:0 |
| 2 | 2023-08-19 | Tottenham | Man Utd | 2:0 |
| 3 | 2023-08-26 | Man Utd | Nottm Forest | 3:2 |
| 4 | 2023-09-03 | Arsenal | Man Utd | 3:1 |
| 5 | 2023-09-16 | Man Utd | Brighton | 1:3 |
| Group A | 2023-09-20 | Bayern Munich | Man Utd | 4:3 |
| 6 | 2023-09-23 | Burnley | Man Utd | 0:1 |
| Third Round | 2023-09-26 | Man Utd | Crystal Palace | 3:0 |
| 7 | 2023-09-30 | Man Utd | Crystal Palace | 0:1 |
| Group A | 2023-10-03 | Man Utd | Galatasaray | 2:3 |PPG: 1.09, period between 2023-11-29 and 2024-01-14. A run that included 3 wins, 3 draws, and 5 losses. Total goal diff is -4
Markdown (GitHub flavored):
| **Matchday** | **Date** | **Home Team** | **Away Team** | **Result** |
|-------------: |-----------: |--------------: |--------------: |-----------: |
| Group A | 2023-11-29 | Galatasaray | Man Utd | 3:3 |
| 14 | 2023-12-02 | Newcastle | Man Utd | 1:0 |
| 15 | 2023-12-06 | Man Utd | Chelsea | 2:1 |
| 16 | 2023-12-09 | Man Utd | Bournemouth | 0:3 |
| Group A | 2023-12-12 | Man Utd | Bayern Munich | 0:1 |
| 17 | 2023-12-17 | Liverpool | Man Utd | 0:0 |
| 18 | 2023-12-23 | West Ham | Man Utd | 2:0 |
| 19 | 2023-12-26 | Man Utd | Aston Villa | 3:2 |
| 20 | 2023-12-30 | Nottm Forest | Man Utd | 2:1 |
| Third Round | 2024-01-08 | Wigan | Man Utd | 0:2 |
| 21 | 2024-01-14 | Man Utd | Tottenham | 2:2 |PPG: 1.18, period between 2023-11-29 and 2024-01-14. A run that included 4 wins, 1 draws, and 6 losses. Total goal diff is -6
Markdown (GitHub flavored):
| **Matchday** | **Date** | **Home Team** | **Away Team** | **Result** |
|-------------: |-----------: |--------------: |--------------: |-----------: |
| 10 | 2023-10-29 | Man Utd | Man City | 0:3 |
| Fourth Round | 2023-11-01 | Man Utd | Newcastle | 0:3 |
| 11 | 2023-11-04 | Fulham | Man Utd | 0:1 |
| Group A | 2023-11-08 | FC Copenhagen | Man Utd | 4:3 |
| 12 | 2023-11-11 | Man Utd | Luton | 1:0 |
| 13 | 2023-11-26 | Everton | Man Utd | 0:3 |
| Group A | 2023-11-29 | Galatasaray | Man Utd | 3:3 |
| 14 | 2023-12-02 | Newcastle | Man Utd | 1:0 |
| 15 | 2023-12-06 | Man Utd | Chelsea | 2:1 |
| 16 | 2023-12-09 | Man Utd | Bournemouth | 0:3 |
| Group A | 2023-12-12 | Man Utd | Bayern Munich | 0:1 |It's just my opinion and I stick by it. I'll still be watching our games hoping EtH proves me wrong though.
This has to be satire!
What you don't think comparison across three decades is fair? How dare you.
I think that both EtH and INEOS are looking for this sudden click. Where everything finally falls into place and we play like we are invincible. We can always hope that this happens (since he hasn't been sacked) but I really really doubt it. Mostly because I haven't seen progressive improvements in the style of play. If United start to play counterttacking football only because EtH just doesn't want to lose, we can give up on the click ever happening.
See lex's post above. I hope to god it's sarcasm for their sake. Bringing Arteta and Fergie up again
I dunno mate. I guess that I believe the organization has to endure. The mentality that SAF set was uncompromising. Rio had talked about that. SAF brought in players like Keano and Stam and others who amplified that message. I just can’t see how wasting time by allowing the substandard elements to remain is a path to a major trophy. How can you allow a shit manager to stay, when shit performances get your top players benched??? It sends the wrong message. We are Manchester fecking United. Top 4 is the bare minimum, and you need a trophy to boot. We spend more than almost any club, on average, I just don’t see how anything less is acceptable.
SAF set the standard. He’s not here anymore. The owners have to set it, just like they do at Bayern, Real, Barca (however fecked up it is), PSG and Juventus.
I am really bummed at the bureaucracy that INEOS has installed. Management by committee tends to be slow and ponderous with people who are waiting to be stabbed in the back and therefore cautious. They don’t want to get sacked and reluctant to take big swings and make big moves.
I'm curious. Is there any way for the manager to fail without it being the players fault in your eyes? Because if you can't see that ETH has been THE main problem over the last 18 months, I honestly can't see what would do it for you.
Even more depressing, we seem to have a lot of fans (14.2%) who want him to continue because they think he’ll magically turn it around
I dont understand their reasoning behind giving him 2 games. Because we could win the next two games, but it doesn't change anything. We aren't going to be any closer to challenging for the title. ETHs reign has become terminal now.
If Moyes got 4 years like Fergie then we would be double-quadruple winners! Every manager in history just needs time like Fergie and then they will all be amazing, just like Fergie!See lex's post above. I hope to god it's sarcasm for their sake. Bringing Arteta and Fergie up again
Fully agree. That's what we are all hoping. If it does, can't wait to see the posts on this thread! ha
I a not denying the fact we will not be in top 4 even if we sack him. But we are the worst we have ever been,
Arteta’s argument doesn’t hold. They have been in constant progress since he is at Arsenal. We have been worse and worse since 20 months in the league. Finishing 3rd then 8th and now on course to do even worse.
Can someone see progress in our games, in our style of play ?
If that’s not the case, after spending so much and 2 seasons, it’s hope and nothing else.
Patience is a virtue right, but without context it means nothing.
Do you wait a train that is already gone ? Would it be a virtue or just deluded ?
« Players having let down the manager » is just always the same argument. Most of the players are ETH buys. If they see something is not working, they lose the belief, it’s only human. And after 20 months of the same inept tactics, they are probably mentally rinsed.
Maybe ETH have let the players down by trying to playing his tactics no matter what instead of adapting to the league and to the strengths of our players.
Never forget that Jon Snow is a United fan. He has the clubs best interests at heart.
There is no "sudden click". It's a process. It's naive to think it's as simple as flipping a switch.
More importantly ETH said "trust the process" not "trust the click". That alone is all I need to know that it's gradual.
Arteta comparison has really become annoying by now (Klopp comparison was tedious from day one as he was great at Liverpool from the beginning). Even if we admit that the process was quite slow under Arteta, there was year on year improvement in most aspects of play - their defence got good in first season, attack improved in second season to a point where both of them combined could carry them to 5th and very close to CL qualification, and third full season already resulted in title challenge.
There has been no improvement at United since ETH's arrival. The average performance now if anything is worse than the average performance in 22-23 was, and by quite a margin as well. We might start showing some improvement from here but that's mainly because we've sunk so low that even becoming a steadfast mid-table team would represent a marked improvement.
See that's the thing. The season is far from being over, if we made a change now that can positively influence things. If ETH stays it's not unreasonable to say the league is over, because it's hard to see it getting much better
What any United fan would ideally want and what would constitute a turn around from the abject shite Ten Hag's served up for the last 14 months aren't necessarily the same thing. If he managed to finish 6th from the perspective of where we've started it would be an objective improvement but it's still no where near good enough.
I believe the club shold get rid of him at the first opportunity, I was hoping that would have been this break. But I've had a feeling for weeks they won't pull the trigger until November/December.
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