Erik ten Hag | 2024/25 | Sacked

[LawCharltonBest]

Are we on to “football execs OUT” now?

Suppose it was inevitable given everyone’s angst and the lack of news.

Who will we be wanting OUT next week?

Scenes!

Obviously wanting them out is ridiculous, but if they've decided that keeping Ten Hag is the best decision then I would absolutely 100% need that explained to me.

We will know very soon if he's staying because he'll be taking training in a few days time.

 

[TrebleChamp99]

Well said. Let’s all accept failure now. Aiming for better is for losers

No you missed my point, people seem to want to stick with ETH because no one is available but lets be honest who we deem as top candidates probably would not join europa league and 14th place United over waiting for City, Liverpool, Arsenal, Barca, Madrid, Bayern etc all of which may/may not need new managers fairly soon.

Why take the plunge on reputatation or stress over united just cos its a name? so if you are smart as INEOS of course you try but you dont stop just because you didnt get the first choice. You go a rung down, try and improve and then go again once you are in a better position for those names.

Isnt that what City did whilst working towards Pep.

I think we should be going all in for Tuchel, he isnt the best or elite manager in the world but hes absolutely better than what we have and better than most managers available to united out there.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

I read that first line as "Ten Hag is sacked by Manchester United" and thought it had actually happened!

 

[Solius]

Just popping in to see if you're all ok. You need anything?

 

[OverratedOpinion]

Oh he's almost definitely staying now. Best we can hope for is that we ring in 2025 under a competent manager.

 

[Redfrog]

I agree with your assessment. I just hope the manager issue is addressed before a complete change of hierarchy becomes a reality. That would set us back even further - it could be another decade till we become proper title challengers.

Berrada came with a lot of promise so I’m truly surprised he has opted to retain ETH. Perhaps he sees something the entire fanbase doesn’t. Or the 15 million compensation will severely impact financial fair play.

If the compensation impact our financial they are mugs as they should have planned that before giving him an extension. So no excuses.

 

[moses]

What part of that do you think is hysterical?

Come on, we are truly awful but among other madness people are literally saying Mick McCarthy would fix it and the Old Trafford crowd are partially to blame and comparing backing the manager to North Korea. This thread is a train wreck.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

No you missed my point, people seem to want to stick with ETH because no one is available but lets be honest who we deem as top candidates probably would not join europa league and 14th place United over waiting for City, Liverpool, Arsenal, Barca, Madrid, Bayern etc all of which may/may not need new managers fairly soon.

Why take the plunge on reputatation or stress over united just cos its a name? so if you are smart as INEOS of course you try but you dont stop just because you didnt get the first choice. You go a rung down, try and improve and then go again once you are in a better position for those names.

Isnt that what City did whilst working towards Pep.

I think we should be going all in for Tuchel, he isnt the best or elite manager in the world but hes absolutely better than what we have and better than most managers available to united out there.

Ah Fair enough. I thought you meant something else

And yes we aren't getting any of the 3-5 best managers in the World. But I think we can get one to help us build and find consistency

 

[TheReligion]

Did you sleepwalk through last season or the start to this one? What part of that do you think is hysterical?

Probably the huge assumptions posters keep making then wording them as though they are fact.

 

[Solius]

Cup of tea? Biccy? All good?

 

[didz]

I'm not sure what point you're making. You expressed an opinion initially that the reason why the club weren't sacking him was because it will cost too much. I disagreed. You asked what my "guess" was regarding why they hadn't sacked him and I responded: because the people who's job it is to make that decision currently can't agree on what to do.

If Ten Hag is sacked they won't have to pay his contract up in full. He'll either do a deal to walk away with a pay off, or he'll continue to be paid until he gets a new job up until the end of his contract. Usually managers get a pay off and take a chunk cash upfront, and then if they get a new job straight away they're quid's in. His contract may deal with all of that already.

If the cost of sacking a manager, the terms of who's contract are known to the club (who have just taken up an option to extend it) is prohibitive for a business the size of United then there's much bigger problems at hand than what's going on with Ten Hag.

If they think he won't bring success this season, I can't see how sticking with him will cost less than it does to sack him.

Well the recent report from Ducker indicates ETH alone could cost around £14m to sack (The Athletic posited it could be even more). Then there are other staff costs, plus the cost of getting a new manager and all of the staff they want with them. The point you appear to have been making is that this doesn't matter, as the only people involved who would give a toss about all of those millions are accountants, which is ludicrous.

Feel free to re-read the exchange, as you appear to have missed some important caveats, even concerning the very first premise. I've highlighted it for you in your quote - I did not ask why he hadn't been sacked, I asked if you had another reason why some of the people making that decision would not be in agreement, as that was one possible explanation I provided in response to another poster. So you've kind of fallen at the first hurdle there in your eagerness to jump in on somebody. As I said, if there is even a miniscule glimmer of hope of him turning it around, some involved with the decision-making process (and no, they aren't all accountants) will see that as enough to baulk at the financial outlay involved sacking Ten Hag.

If you do not accept that millions upon millions of pounds in unexpected expenditure is a potential reason not to do something, then I'm very happy for you and all the wealth you must have accumulated, although I would be surprised if you manage to hold onto it for all that long. As for the club, clearly absorbing that kind of cost is a factor to consider, and it probably won't be until Ten Hag's underperformance reaches yet another low before those who are concerned with the club's financial position (who, once again, are not just accountants) give way upon the realisation that sacking him will definitely cost more than keeping him.

 

[Revan]

Hysterical nonsense.

Some of the bed wetting in this thread is incredible.

He is basically describing last season, which in the end worked well for EtH and even got a contract extension.

There is not much to suggest that things will go differently this time.

 

[doubleohseven]

What I wonder is: if he's still here for Brentford, will he carry on as normal with the same mindset, formation and tactical planning, or will show any capacity whatsoever for growth and learning?

It will, as ever, depend on what team is available to be chosen from.

A few injuries over the international break (Maguire, Maz) will impact us.

As for learning from past mistakes, I think he has done that. See the inversion of wing-backs being removed for Villa away.

It's not enough, sure, but our biggest problem is the strikeforce being blunt. We don't know as to where the next goal comes from and the pressure this places on defence is enormous.

It also impacts EtH's game management.

 

[Werd.]

Cup of tea? Biccy? All good?

Have you got anything for acid reflux?

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

The whole tweet was ruined after the first word, “IF”.

 

[Solius]

Have you got anything for acid reflux?

I'll check the drawer.

 

[moses]

The whole tweet was ruined after the first word, “IF”.

Yes but it's hard to publish made up exclusives without it.

 

[pocco]

We won't be expecting much against West Ham though, so even losing that game will not affect his ratings. Likewise Chelsea, they are quite good now and we know we don't perform well in the league against good teams. Fenerbahce away is probably another one where a loss won't really do anything because we expect to lose these games.

It's all about Brentford and Leicester games in the league, winning 1 of them should be good enough, and PAOK in EL where we probably need to win as well to give ourselves a better chance of progressing (especially if we lose in Turkey). Leicester in the cup should probably be fine as I expect them to play a weakened side while we will most likely go close to full strength as ETH, being a serial winner that he is, will not neglect this competition.

4-6 points in the 4 league games + a win in EL will easily get him through the next break.

 

[Robbie Boy]

I read that first line as "Ten Hag is sacked by Manchester United" and thought it had actually happened!

Oh dear

 

[Robbie Boy]

We won't be expecting much against West Ham though, so even losing that game will not affect his ratings. Likewise Chelsea, they are quite good now and we know we don't perform well in the league against good teams. Fenerbahce away is probably another one where a loss won't really do anything because we expect to lose these games.

It's all about Brentford and Leicester games in the league, winning 1 of them should be good enough, and PAOK in EL where we probably need to win as well to give ourselves a better chance of progressing (especially if we lose in Turkey). Leicester in the cup should probably be fine as I expect them to play a weakened side while we will most likely go close to full strength as ETH, being a serial winner that he is, will not neglect this competition.

4-6 points in the 4 league games + a win in EL will easily get him through the next break.

I think 1 win and 5 defeats would be fine.

 

[devilsadvoca8]

What I don't get and need an answer to is what exactly is the target with Ten Hag? Be crap in the league and sneak a cup? Is that ok with INEOS? No distinct style of play, no glimpse of hope that we are building towards anything sustainable and if he sneaks in another League cup then he gets a new contract?

This man bought 5 new players (Yoro injured), he benched two of them to play Casemiro, Maguire and Evans, where's the long term plan with that? That's just him trying to survive to keep his job. He'll keep it now until the next period of pressure and then rinse and repeat. How can INEOS see this and see that as progress. You don't need data or analytics to see he's simply not good enough.

 

[wolvored]

How is 6 points even nearly enough anyway, considering where we are in the table and the consistency of those in the top six or so. This is all just maddening, no way whatsoever to run a club.

It isn’t. That’s me thinking we could possibly beat West Ham and Leicester if we are lucky, but I wouldn’t bet on it.

 

[Sarni]

Hysterical nonsense.

Some of the bed wetting in this thread is incredible.

What is not true about this though?

We are not expecting results against teams like West Ham away from home, we haven’t for a long time. We may pull off the occasional win but when you look at last season we got 4 points against top half teams away from home - that was a complete fluke win at Villa and a fluke 0-0 draw at Liverpool, both of these games could and should have been defeats. Otherwise we lost at Arsenal, City, Chelsea, Spurs, Palace and West Ham. I don’t even remember the last time we had a convincing win against a good team in the league away from home.

We are not expecting results away from home in Europe either, haven’t won a game away from OT since Betis in March 2023. We basically don’t get results in Europe at all, home or away.

We are not really expecting to beat good teams at OT either. We sometimes grab a win against the ones near us in the table (like Villa, Newcastle and Chelsea last year) but it’s not a default expectation these days and more often than not we are outplayed in those games (as we have been twice already this year).

 

[GoodTimes]

When there’s so little trust, faith and goodwill between a manager and those above him, which is what this appears to be - it’s over.

Rip the plaster off and get it over with already.

Let’s just say he’s given a stay of execution, how does that play within the club?

“Oh hey Erik, don’t worry about the meeting where we again had to discuss your future after more record breaking failure and let it all play out in the media over the course of a full week, on you go..”

INEOS dropped the ball after the FA Cup win when they should have fecked him off, and they’re going to do it again. Until the next international break of course where we’ll be back in the same position.

 

[Fortitude]

Come on, we are truly awful but among other madness people are literally saying Mick McCarthy would fix it and the Old Trafford crowd are partially to blame and comparing backing the manager to North Korea. This thread is a train wreck.

That post referred to what will likely keep him in the job (should he still be here). I highly doubt the owners are expecting a tear up when he gets back because that would be unrealistic.

Probably the huge assumptions posters keep making then wording them as though they are fact.

“4-6 points in the 4 league games + a win in EL will easily get him through the next break.‘ infeasible or do think he’d be canned for that?

 

[pocco]

I think 1 win and 5 defeats would be fine.

It's hilarious to think about it, but both you and @Sarni are spot on. And those that are getting tied up in knots over it need to step back and look at what is going on, what they have already allowed to go on. He had a dreadful season last season, looked nailed on to be sacked, and they kept him. Nobody would have complained then. The same is happening now, and yet it's still enough to keep his job.

So posters like @ErikElevenHag who think it's hysterical nonsense, I would like to ask: based on what, exactly? Because we now have a hell of a lot of proof that INEOS will practically stick with Ten Hag no matter what. It can't get any worse than it has been and, last time I checked, he's still here. Still getting the backing of the board. Still practically telling fans to pipe down because it's all part of a process and he's not going anywhere.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

Oh dear

In that moment I had mentally prepared myself for 90 solid minutes on redcafe before my noon meeting soaking in the reaction and discussing replacements. Then I saw that poxy "If"

 

[Chairman Steve]

It’s a bizarre situation where it feels like everyone knows what needs to be done but the people who have the power to do it won’t do it for some reason and on top of that, why they didn’t they do it four months ago when there was a perfect opportunity to do it as well as sufficient and plausible reason, and they went radio silent for almost a month about that before sticking with him, albeit in the most weakest, least confident way possible.

If they are indeed playing the long game and waiting for their ‘preferred candidate’ then I will very reluctantly accept that (the football is going to be absolute horseshit 90% of the time, we may finish worse than last year in the league and ETH will be the biggest laughing stock in English football if he gets to the end of the season) but they’re demonstrating some inflexibility about it going forward. What if that guy doesn’t work? Are they potentially writing off a season to wait for their next preferred candidate when the first preferred candidate isn’t any good?

All of it is just baffling.

 

[Sarni]

It's hilarious to think about it, but both you and @Sarni are spot on. And those that are getting tied up in knots over it need to step back and look at what is going on, what they have already allowed to go on. He had a dreadful season last season, looked nailed on to be sacked, and they kept him. Nobody would have complained then. The same is happening now, and yet it's still enough to keep his job.

So posters like @ErikElevenHag who think it's hysterical nonsense, I would like to ask: based on what, exactly? Because we now have a hell of a lot of proof that INEOS will practically stick with Ten Hag no matter what. It can't get any worse than it has been and, last time I checked, he's still here. Still getting the backing of the board. Still practically telling fans to pipe down because it's all part of a process and he's not going anywhere.

My expectations are basically exactly in line with how we've performed for 18 months. I don't think there's anything unreasonable about that. Of course West Ham game could be another Villa/Fulham game where we win against the run of play, or we could win BOTH Brentford and Leicester games in which case we would overperform, but it's not something that can or should be expected.

 

[Sarni]

I think 1 win and 5 defeats would be fine.

5 defeats would be rough. I think we need to win at least 2 games, if not 3 (including PAOK), and definitely can't lose 5 but more like 2-3 will be acceptable (e.g. if we lost to Fenerbahce, West Ham and maybe Chelsea, it will be considered fairly ok as we have lost many of these games recently, but losing at home to Brentford or losing in the cup against Leicester would not be received very well).

 

[moses]

That post referred to what will likely keep him in the job (should he still be here). I highly doubt the owners are expecting a tear up when he gets back because that would be unrealistic.

The post also referred to the bed wetting in the thread, that's what I was referring to. I get people are pissed off with the manager but this thread is mental, and I guess some people are so annoyed the insanity of some of what is being said doesn't register.

 

[pocco]

My expectations are basically exactly in line with how we've performed for 18 months. I don't think there's anything unreasonable about that. Of course West Ham game could be another Villa/Fulham game where we win against the run of play, or we could win BOTH Brentford and Leicester games in which case we would overperform, but it's not something that can or should be expected.

Yeah this is how I see it going. This is what any reasonable person would expect, given the amount of evidence we now have.

I think the only way he makes results better is if he parks the bus and goes full Oleball, even against the worse teams in the league. But that would just be papering over the cracks, as we know what will happen as soon as he takes his foot off the brakes again, and it's in no way a sustainable style of play. This is where we were at under Ole. In fact, I expect this is what he's now going to do.

 

[Werd.]

It’s a bizarre situation where it feels like everyone knows what needs to be done but the people who have the power to do it won’t do it for some reason and on top of that, why they didn’t they do it four months ago when there was a perfect opportunity to do it as well as sufficient and plausible reason, and they went radio silent for almost a month about that before sticking with him, albeit in the most weakest, least confident way possible.

If they are indeed playing the long game and waiting for their ‘preferred candidate’ then I will very reluctantly accept that (the football is going to be absolute horseshit 90% of the time, we may finish worse than last year in the league and ETH will be the biggest laughing stock in English football if he gets to the end of the season) but they’re demonstrating some inflexibility about it going forward. What if that guy doesn’t work? Are they potentially writing off a season to wait for their next preferred candidate when the first preferred candidate isn’t any good?

All of it is just baffling.

Nailed it, mate. Like I said earlier, has any other club experienced a similar bizzare situation like this before?

Also, let's say, he survives this international break, and the results don't improve and then, they sack him later on anyway, what does this say about the avengers of football hierarchy we have assembled that they couldn't foresee this when everyone else could?

 

[Fortitude]

The post also referred to the bed wetting in the thread, that's what I was referring to. I get people are pissed off with the manager but this thread is mental, and I guess some people are so annoyed the insanity of some of what is being said doesn't register.

True. I have my blinkers on to the hysteria, if I'm honest.

 

[doubleohseven]

I read that first line as "Ten Hag is sacked by Manchester United" and thought it had actually happened!

You're not alone, chief!

 

[moses]

True. I have my blinkers on to the hysteria, if I'm honest.

It's probably wise!

 

[Grylte]

Fecking hell, i missed the "if" in that tweet too

 

[Shark]

True. I have my blinkers on to the hysteria, if I'm honest.

The club is in a hysterical situation, so even if you manage to ignore the fans, it's difficult to just pretend everything is rosey. The fact we haven't won a game since Barnsley is crazy. I remember under Ole there were moments among the hysteria where you could find at least some comfort. We were scoring goals, we were a basic counter attacking team that could get results against the right opponent. I don't even feel that energy at that moment.

 

[Roboc7]

You’d hope the club are keeping him because there is some sort of belief in what he is doing or in his ability. But they don’t appear to have had that any stage since the takeover, he was effectively kept on by default in the summer.

The reason(s) to keep him now seem to be because, it’s expensive to sack him, or it’s too early in the season or they don’t know who to replace him with etc. That’s a real concern because they should have seen this coming, extending his contract was pointless because the only thing that mattered were results improving. Even if he’d got a new 4 year contract we’d still be talking about him getting the sack because he was starting the season as one of the favourites for it regardless.

 

[romufc]

The club is in a hysterical situation, so even if you manage to ignore the fans, it's difficult to just pretend everything is rosey. The fact we haven't won a game since Barnsley is crazy. I remember under Ole there were moments among the hysteria where you could find at least some comfort. We were scoring goals, we were a basic counter attacking team that could get results against the right opponent. I don't even feel that energy at that moment.

The last PL game we won was Southampton, I mean we haven't even come close to winning. We have not scored a goal in 3 PL games, crying about 1/2 chances as what ifs. We should not be crying about 1/2 chances in a game when we should be good enough to create 5/6.

There is no energy left in me, I know what to expect in every game we go. People who say Ten Hag doesn't have a style is also fake. he has a style of play, the game model is to keep the ball with the CB's as long as possible, pass back to Onana and go long. Lost the ball and restart from pressing, pretend to high press and if the opponent is semi decent, they will string 4 passes, Bruno Zirkzee, Garnacho, Rashford will all throw their hands up and watch their runners run past our midfield into our defence, thereafter its hope that the opposition makes a mistake and we can recover the ball.