Erik ten Hag | 2024/25 | Sacked

[sullydnl]

Imagining this is all true for the sake of argument, the most interesting bit is the final line suggesting they want a manager with experience at a top club.

Because if true that would immediately rule out most of the managers who would potentially be available, unless they have a very loose definiton of what constitutes a top club.

 

[Shark]

Brentford, West Ham, Chelsea and Leicester, before next International break. On paper we should get at least 6 pts, but how confident are you? I'm not. If we dont win more than 6 pts, surely he's gone then.

How is 6 points even nearly enough anyway, considering where we are in the table and the consistency of those in the top six or so. This is all just maddening, no way whatsoever to run a club.

 

[Sunny Jim]

Is this written by Luckhurst? He is so bitter. He’s also the only one writing about Tuchel

 

[VeryPrecious89]

What a load of shiit. Even at the best of times, there are poor games interspersed with good ones.

If you can’t enjoy a good game, sod off and take a break.

Bit of an aggressive response. I’m not sure you understood what I said.

 

[DRJosh]

A loss against Brentford should expedite things…not that I want us to lose.

 

[santeria13]

A loss against Brentford should expedite things…not that I want us to lose.

At this point, I doubt it. Somehow it really feels like the new hierarchy are really invested on ETH and genuinely believe he's the right man. The fact he wasn't sacked after two back to back 3-0 humiliations at home says it all really. That sends a message to the world that they have no standards. This genuinely wouldn't be tolerated at any of the top 20 or 30 clubs in world football, let alone top 5 and that's discounting last years disgusting performance in the PL and europe.

It's obvious Ratcliffe wants him gone but the people he appointed don't seem to agree. As others have said, it wouldn't make much sense overruling them right after you hire them to make these kind of decisions.

If we carry on going the way we are and he isn't sacked despite results & performances, honestly I'd wager a higher change of Berrada or Ashworth to be sacked before he is.

 

[MadDogg]

This system is played by other teams without issues. Playing attacking football always carries some risk, but dangerous counter attacks can be dealt with by good positioning and aggressive defending.

We created a lot in our first PL games, so I’m not too worried about that part.

That's like saying a random mid-table team of the 90's like West Ham were playing the same system as we were, because both were broadly set up in a 442. There's huge differences in the details and how things are implemented. You or I could literally go in and tell our players to play a similar system, but it doesn't mean it'd be done remotely well as we obviously don't have the ability to coach it properly.

Teams who implement it well keep things compact, able to maintain pressure throughout the field and when in possession always have options to pass to. We, no matter what players we use, have huge gaps all over the field for the opposition to play through and when in possession we're constantly either choosing to or having to (due to no better options) play high-risk balls that constantly lose us possession. The former has improved slightly compared to last season, but that's an incredibly low bar as it'd be almost impossible not to improve compared to the shit-show of last season.

It's like ETH has the base set-up to play one way, but then takes all the little details and specifics and tries to do them all the exact opposite of how other teams do.

 

[DRJosh]

At this point, I doubt it. Somehow it really feels like the new hierarchy are really invested on ETH and genuinely believe he's the right man. The fact he wasn't sacked after two back to back 3-0 humiliations at home says it all really. That sends a message to the world that they have no standards. This genuinely wouldn't be tolerated at any of the top 20 or 30 clubs in world football, let alone top 5 and that's discounting last years disgusting performance in the PL and europe.

It's obvious Ratcliffe wants him gone but the people he appointed don't seem to agree. As others have said, it wouldn't make much sense overruling them right after you hire them to make these kind of decisions.

If we carry on going the way we are and he isn't sacked despite results & performances, honestly I'd wager a higher change of Berrada or Ashworth to be sacked before he is.

I agree with your assessment. I just hope the manager issue is addressed before a complete change of hierarchy becomes a reality. That would set us back even further - it could be another decade till we become proper title challengers.

Berrada came with a lot of promise so I’m truly surprised he has opted to retain ETH. Perhaps he sees something the entire fanbase doesn’t. Or the 15 million compensation will severely impact financial fair play.

 

[DJ_21]

Him yes, Glazers no.

BUT, he has appointed these people to do this and fully trusts them to do it properly, if he is going to be overruling them all the time then he needn't bother hiring them.

Tuchel is a concern for me too so I can see why the hesitation on him.

Fair point.

 

[Denis79]

I somehow feel like he will still somehow be really bitter if he does get sacked, blaming everyone else but himself tbh.

He seems the type, yes.

 

[Gordon S]

I'd rather mangers no longer be as involved in transfers.

I think it is something we absolutely need to break away from.
We have gone in circles for 15 years regarding transfers and squadbuilding.
We have spent billions over the years, have spent another 600m to back the prophet EtH and the squad still doesn`t make sense. No balance, no synergy, no red thread. The club most provide the red thread for us. No other way. If all bigger manager names comes with the baggage of needing control over transfer i rather we look around for someone less known.

 

[tenpoless]

Is anyone seriously still suggesting we should keep him because we gave Fergie time and he ended up being very successful? That's like an average investor holding onto a poorly performing stock and saying "It's okay, if I keep this I will be Warren Buffett one day. This is the new Apple stock." Yeah there's a chance you will be. And that chance is one in a trillion.

BoldIsGold.
BaldIsMald.

 

[In Absentia]

I agree with your assessment. I just hope the manager issue is addressed before a complete change of hierarchy becomes a reality. That would set us back even further - it could be another decade till we become proper title challengers.

Berrada came with a lot of promise so I’m truly surprised he has opted to retain ETH. Perhaps he sees something the entire fanbase doesn’t. Or the 15 million compensation will severely impact financial fair play.

Would not trust Ashworth making good football decisions. He has a questionable record to say the least in that department. Let’s hope Berrada and Wilcox can help him with that.

 

[Werd.]

'...One argument was made that was strongly in favour of a change now, but that was countered by the familiar caveats about how early in the new era it is, as well as the potential disruption from a change..."

Craig Burley's analogy was really apt.

Would be just our luck that the 'best in class' football hierarchy turn out to be absolute lemons.

 

[Laurencio]

How we have approached the question since the FA Cup final has been deeply unambitious to say the least. It's all very "Let's wait and hope it all fixes itself". They might want to reconsider their 2028 target.

 

[stevoc]

This system is played by other teams without issues. Playing attacking football always carries some risk, but dangerous counter attacks can be dealt with by good positioning and aggressive defending.

We created a lot in our first PL games, so I’m not too worried about that part.

We play attacking football?

 

[TrebleChamp99]

I don't get this point of wanting the right guy considering anyone of that mould is in a job or earmarked by more successful clubs.

 

[stevoc]

So many people seem to think the decision hasn't been made yet? I don't understand that line of thinking. I think its pretty obvious he will be here until at least the next international break and depending on results, that is when a change would potentially happen.

Im struggling to get excited for the Brentford game. Im now in the last months of ole phase, you know that the situation is terminal, you still want your side to win but it means ETH will stay longer.

Yep an international break right after a run of bad results is the absolute best timing for a change. Just such a shame we aren't in that exact sort of situation right now

 

[LawCharltonBest]

I don't get this point of wanting the right guy considering anyone of that mould is in a job or earmarked by more successful clubs.

Well said. Let’s all accept failure now. Aiming for better is for losers

 

[stevoc]

How is 6 points even nearly enough anyway, considering where we are in the table and the consistency of those in the top six or so. This is all just maddening, no way whatsoever to run a club.

To ensure we stay up we need to be averaging at least 1.2 if not 1.3 points per game. 6 would be brilliant.

 

[Gordon S]

Would not trust Ashworth making good football decisions. He has a questionable record to say the least in that department. Let’s hope Berrada and Wilcox can help him with that.

Are you saying Ashworth is an absolute dud as a sporting director? Thats not good.

 

[Amsterdam Devil]

If true, how can someone as experienced as Ashworth come to the conclusion that Ten Hag should be give more time? Truly baffling.

Secondly, if the top dogs want change now, why can't they just overrule the 'football hierarchy' on such an important matter?

He was also a fan of Southgate wasn’t he?

 

[Sarni]

people thinking he could go during the next international break. Barring an absolute disaster where we lose all the games in-between this won’t even be a consideration. We have a much more favorable list of fixtures and should be able to do at least the same as we’ve done between previous break and now which as we already know is good enough.

 

[romufc]

people thinking he could go during the next international break. Barring an absolute disaster where we lose all the games in-between this won’t even be a consideration. We have a much more favorable list of fixtures and should be able to do at least the same as we’ve done between previous break and now which as we already know is good enough.

I don't think you can call any game favourable for Ten Hag... he has lost convincingly to West Ham, Brentford in his short tenure to say they are favourable.

I will actually go as far as saying we win 2 of our next 6 games. I reckon Leicester in the cup and PAOK in the cup, I cannot see us winning another PL game until the next international break.

There are no signs to suggest that we will win, considering we have no idea how to score goals and are leaky at the back.

 

[Sarni]

I don't think you can call any game favourable for Ten Hag... he has lost convincingly to West Ham, Brentford in his short tenure to say they are favourable.

I will actually go as far as saying we win 2 of our next 6 games. I reckon Leicester in the cup and PAOK in the cup, I cannot see us winning another PL game until the next international break.

There are no signs to suggest that we will win, considering we have no idea how to score goals and are leaky at the back.

We won't be expecting much against West Ham though, so even losing that game will not affect his ratings. Likewise Chelsea, they are quite good now and we know we don't perform well in the league against good teams. Fenerbahce away is probably another one where a loss won't really do anything because we expect to lose these games.

It's all about Brentford and Leicester games in the league, winning 1 of them should be good enough, and PAOK in EL where we probably need to win as well to give ourselves a better chance of progressing (especially if we lose in Turkey). Leicester in the cup should probably be fine as I expect them to play a weakened side while we will most likely go close to full strength as ETH, being a serial winner that he is, will not neglect this competition.

4-6 points in the 4 league games + a win in EL will easily get him through the next break.

 

[romufc]

We won't be expecting much against West Ham though, so even losing that game will not affect his ratings. Likewise Chelsea, they are quite good now and we know we don't perform well in the league against good teams. Fenerbahce away is probably another one where a loss won't really do anything because we expect to lose these games.

It's all about Brentford and Leicester games in the league, winning 1 of them should be good enough, and PAOK in EL where we probably need to win as well to give ourselves a better chance of progressing (especially if we lose in Turkey). Leicester in the cup should probably be fine as I expect them to play a weakened side while we will most likely go close to full strength as ETH, being a serial winner that he is, will not neglect this competition.

4-6 points in the 4 league games + a win in EL will easily get him through the next break.

This is my worry, it seems at the moment if he can average a 1.1 point a game, he stays as that will get us to 41 points in the season, in most seasons that should keep you above the relegation zone.
So as long as he gets 1 draw and 1 win in the next 4 PL games, he is fine.

With respects to the EL, I dont think the club care about where he finishes there, they are in acceptance with Erik that the competition is too good for this manager so a win would be celebrated as overperforming in the 8 games. Considering under Ten Hag we have 1 win in 10 European games, I suspect 1 win will be good.

League cup is where if he gets to quarter / semi final, they will see that as success.

 

[moses]

It’s funny watching journalists scramble for word counts and clicks in a vacuum of information.

At least they can claim they are doing their shitty jobs. The people reacting are worse, doing the job the journos are too lazy to do by trying to add substance to fluff pieces in their own heads.

 

[Fortitude]

What I wonder is: if he's still here for Brentford, will he carry on as normal with the same mindset, formation and tactical planning, or will show any capacity whatsoever for growth and learning?

If he plods on as is, it's a pisstake and will make those allowing him to tank the season look even worse than they do now.

The media spotlight is going to be absolutely intense from now on, with not only ETH and the team getting it, but also the supposed "best in class" allowing it to happen.

It seems like the idea is to bumble along and have him see out the season where hopefully we're top 6 or top 4 by some miracle, and then move him on at reduced cost. If that is the case, it's one uncomfortable gamble that doesn't make this new structure look good or impressive unless the outcome is as above.

If it goes the other way, we've jumped out of the frying pan into the fire with our helmsen. There is also immense damage to morale and young player development at stake with this gamble, which has carryover.

 

[moses]

So they were in there for hours discussing fixing bathrooms and potential recruiting of players, or worse, investors/sponsorships, for our 14th placed club?

There would still be meetings about the business of the club regardless of league position.

 

[romufc]

What I wonder is: if he's still here for Brentford, will he carry on as normal with the same mindset, formation and tactical planning, or will show any capacity whatsoever for growth and learning?

If he plods on as is, it's a pisstake and will make those allowing him to tank the season look even worse than they do now.

The media spotlight is going to be absolutely intense from now on, with not only ETH and the team getting it, but also the supposed "best in class" allowing it to happen.

It seems like the idea is to bumble along and have him see out the season where hopefully we're top 6 or top 4 by some miracle, and then move him on at reduced cost. If that is the case, it's one uncomfortable gamble that doesn't make this new structure look good or impressive unless the outcome is as above.

If it goes the other way, we've jumped out of the frying pan into the fire with our helmsen. There is also immense damage to morale and young player development at stake with this gamble, which has carryover.

Its Ten Hag's third season and he has not really shown any capacity to grow. He has his style that he tries and pretends to implement in most of the games where we are open and we have control in the games but the control is not really control because 90% of the times its the back 4 passing to each other, we dont really do much with the ball.

Then there is his 2nd style of playing which is brought out after 2/3 bad performances / results.. i.e post Liverpool, Spurs, Porto we go compact and have no intent on attack, just try and keep it to less than 2 goals conceded.

We are never going to become a free scoring team under this manager, there has been no evidence to suggest it is even a possibility.

He doesn't trust his own signings, when things get tough, new signings go out and players that were not deemed to be having a future under him come in, so you can't really build on something.

 

[Rista]

If they don't sack him it will be because they don't have a viable option to replace him with. Sure they could have Ruud takeover as caretaker for the rest of the year, but would that guarantee better results ? The rest of the top managers are mostly employed right now, so what would be the point. This sort of logic must surely be on the minds of SJR and the rest of the executive team.

And whose fault would that be. Other big clubs that needed a manager or wanted a change at the end of last season replaced their manager without too much fuss but we're forever in the "no viable options" mode. Almost as if many of us were pointing out that keeping him would make it harder to sack him if things continue to be terrible and almost like all this could have easily been predicted.

 

[ErikElevenHag]

We won't be expecting much against West Ham though, so even losing that game will not affect his ratings. Likewise Chelsea, they are quite good now and we know we don't perform well in the league against good teams. Fenerbahce away is probably another one where a loss won't really do anything because we expect to lose these games.

It's all about Brentford and Leicester games in the league, winning 1 of them should be good enough, and PAOK in EL where we probably need to win as well to give ourselves a better chance of progressing (especially if we lose in Turkey). Leicester in the cup should probably be fine as I expect them to play a weakened side while we will most likely go close to full strength as ETH, being a serial winner that he is, will not neglect this competition.

4-6 points in the 4 league games + a win in EL will easily get him through the next break.

Hysterical nonsense.

Some of the bed wetting in this thread is incredible.

 

[romufc]

And whose fault would that be. Other big clubs that needed a manager or wanted a change at the end of last season replaced their manager without too much fuss but we're forever in the "no viable options" mode. Almost as if many of us were pointing out that keeping him would make it harder to sack him if things continue to be terrible and almost like all this could have easily been predicted.

Its funny because Klopp left and they replaced him with a manager who is now top of the PL. I get that there may not be a clear candidate who you think is guaranteed success but there are plenty of managers out there that are doing well.

If we are sacrificing a season on hope, would we rather be better doing with with a coach who has a way of playing and can improve players rather than one who will turn the club into a toxic environment? Its getting there because the way he talks he has lost / losing the fans because we see through the bullshit claims he keeps making in the presser. Its more annoying and pathetic than encouraging.

 

[RedRover]

The finance affects the football, along with everything else at the club. Ergo the information related to cashflow will be considered when making a decision.

But a child would know that. So I can only assume you're being disingenuous for the sake of it.

I'm not sure what point you're making. You expressed an opinion initially that the reason why the club weren't sacking him was because it will cost too much. I disagreed. You asked what my "guess" was regarding why they hadn't sacked him and I responded: because the people who's job it is to make that decision currently can't agree on what to do.

If Ten Hag is sacked they won't have to pay his contract up in full. He'll either do a deal to walk away with a pay off, or he'll continue to be paid until he gets a new job up until the end of his contract. Usually managers get a pay off and take a chunk cash upfront, and then if they get a new job straight away they're quid's in. His contract may deal with all of that already.

If the cost of sacking a manager, the terms of who's contract are known to the club (who have just taken up an option to extend it) is prohibitive for a business the size of United then there's much bigger problems at hand than what's going on with Ten Hag.

If they think he won't bring success this season, I can't see how sticking with him will cost less than it does to sack him.

 

[ErikElevenHag]

Its funny because Klopp left and they replaced him with a manager who is now top of the PL. I get that there may not be a clear candidate who you think is guaranteed success but there are plenty of managers out there that are doing well.

If we are sacrificing a season on hope, would we rather be better doing with with a coach who has a way of playing and can improve players rather than one who will turn the club into a toxic environment? Its getting there because the way he talks he has lost / losing the fans because we see through the bullshit claims he keeps making in the presser. Its more annoying and pathetic than encouraging.

Lets wait and see with Slott before people start lauding him.

People had friction burns on their cocks last year over big ange at Tottenham and he's not done very well since then.. It's 6 games in and Liverpool have had a very favourable run, lets see where they are at come Christmas. Their squad is good enough to get top 4, but if they're miles behind top that's an underperformance from the squad they have.

 

[TsuWave]

“viable option to replace him with” doesn’t wash. We’re 14th. Big Sam would 100% come in and do a better job, as would Mick McCarthy. Ten Hag is that bad. Crystal Palace De Boer bad

 

[Fortitude]

Hysterical nonsense.

Some of the bed wetting in this thread is incredible.

Did you sleepwalk through last season or the start to this one? What part of that do you think is hysterical?

 

[romufc]

Lets wait and see with Slott before people start lauding him.

People had friction burns on their cocks last year over big ange at Tottenham and he's not done very well since then.. It's 6 games in and Liverpool have had a very favourable run, lets see where they are at come Christmas. Their squad is good enough to get top 4, but if they're miles behind top that's an underperformance from the squad they have.

I am not lauding him, just stating the fact.

You can talk about favourable run all you like but the facts are there, he won 8/9 games, including going away to a rival and slapping them 3-0 having fans Oleing passes in the 50th minute.

You can talk about big Ange too who has also slapped up Ten Hag away from home 3-0, both games could have finished 6-0 and no one would have said it was a surprise.

If you then look at the eye test, both play a brand of football where you think.. ok the teams will score a goal soon, rather than the shit show Ten Hag has where we are thinking... will we get out our own half anytime soon?

Do you think Arteta will come to Old Trafford and play defensive? No he will come and attack us.

Our squad is good enough for top 4 too, our manager is the one making fans think the players are not good enough.

 

[Herschel Krustofsky]

Are we on to “Berrada / Ashworth / Wilcox <delete as applicable> OUT” now? Suppose it was inevitable given everyone’s angst and the lack of news.

Who will we be wanting OUT next week?

Scenes!

 

[Berbaclass]