Exactly.But I think what we are seeing is his style. If not after 2 years we would see something different. This is his style.
Exactly.But I think what we are seeing is his style. If not after 2 years we would see something different. This is his style.
The tactic is clear on both maps; kick it to Amad and let him cook. Mount to his credit dues excellent off the ball work and offers himself as an outlet to everyone. Kicking it to Rashy is another one we try repeatedly.I don't think I agree. What individual brilliance are you referring to? I remember us getting those chances through good interplay at the edge of the opponent box and through pressing. The two Bruno chances in the Fulham game are examples of that. We also had brilliant interplay against City but I don't think it count towards xG as there was no shot at the end of Amad's cutback. Not to mention Rashfords' two chances that he fluffed in that game. Also, the chance against Fulham at the end of the game that Garnacho fluffed. I'm not sure which one of those you think came because of individual brilliance?
I disagree. There have way more interplay in the games so far this season than just kicking it out wide to our wingers.The tactic is clear on both maps; kick it to Amad and let him cook. Mount to his credit dues excellent off the ball work and offers himself as an outlet to everyone. Kicking it to Rashy is another one we try repeatedly.
What exactly is ETH style? GK and CB drawing opponents forward to create space, short passing to each others so stats shows that we have more control and less shots at goals. Wingers only taking on defenders occasionally. Few and far in between ball over the top? FB doesn't overlap? No forward in the box so therefore no crosses? As fas as I am concern, he has no idea on how to win a football game. Other coaches already knows how to deal with United but he doesn't know how to deal with them. The first thing that Ineos has done wrongly is to give him a 3 years contract. What on earth does he deserve that??? One FA is 3 years contract so if he wins the Europa League, is Ineos giving him a 5 years contract? What a stupid decision? They should have waited till Christmas or Jan before deciding.
Problem is not winning the game, problem is that we are not able to play our style against teams like Brighton when we had complete squad.Not getting a result over the weekend has really skewed this thought of EtH not being able to implement this style and tactics, when it has been implemented and it should continue to evolve as the players get match fit and come back. Whether people agree with the style/tactics is one thing, but it's wrong to say this squad over the past 2 seasons and 2 matches hasn't shown a completely different way of trying to play compared to the previous managers of Rangnick, Ole, and Mourinho.
Losing to Brighton was harsh and thought it was a really good tactical match throughout which gave United their best chance to beat Brighton compared to previous years where United didn't perform well and got played off the park too many times.
Err, that's exactly what Dalot is told to do. Dalot almost always covers the back post from corners from either side, and until the ball is properly cleared players should continue defending in the positions that they take for the corner.It’s not like ETH told Dalot to be on the opposite side of the field when Brighton scored their 2nd goal or like he told the entire defense…”hey everyone just ball watch and nobody scan for runners in behind”. Thats basic shit that shouldn’t have to be coached.
Rashford did play well in 19/20. It wasn't just goals, his all-round game was very good. It's the one time in his career where he looked on the verge of stepping up to being world class. Even when he returned from the back injury after the Covid shutdown, he wasn't as good on the individual level but his passing and creativity improved to somewhat compensate for it.This. He has never played well. He has had bouts where his runs behind the back and his finishing was good. That's it.
He's an extremely limited footballer. His only decent attributes are pace and finishing, and even those two are extremely prone to form.
And like you said, the fact that Ten Hag hasn't been able to figure this out is damning.
What does the fact that he finished 8th with a negative GD mean then?I am a neutral fan and I think you should stick with him till Christmas at least. (I am not a supporter of Liverpool or Man City as well lol). Sometimes patience pays off. The team is playing well just being unlucky. The fact he beat Man City in that final means he is better than 95% of options out there. I doubt someone like Maresca Slot Roberto could have done that. The only viable option right now is Tuchel and I dont think he is that good either.
The thing about football is that it is a zero sum game. If you win someone else has to lose. And the probability of winning is very very low. There is only 1 team winning at the end. Maybe 2-3 are happy with the result. Last season perhaps Man City and Aston Villa can say they are satisfied. Many people here compare football to their daily lives job. That is not a fair comparison. In your daily life you can have a win win situation.
Anyone could have won that game. I highly doubt he coaches them to defend like they did in the last minutes when they scored. Dalot being the full back should have been close to that defender.I personally think that his tactics are good. When executed well enough the result was the disallowed goal against Brighton.
His biggest weakness is still his in game management. It's 3 years in and he's still awful at it. He still doesn't understand how to see out a match, or grasp that the league is a marathon, not a sprint. When your team is still finding its feet, still building its confidence, you can be forgiven to play it safe in the last 15 minutes to gain a point.
yeah, but this is happening too last season. If he doesn't coach them like that then whatever he's coaching them is not workingAnyone could have won that game. I highly doubt he coaches them to defend like they did in the last minutes when they scored. Dalot being the full back should have been close to that defender.
This.Last season we won 5 PL games by more than one goal....for a bit of context, Villa won 12.
Even when we win, we're scrappy and unconvincing.
I go back to a point I made several times last season...EtH has been in charge for 78 PL games...how many have been objectively "good" performances resulting in comfortable wins? I can't think of many at all, it's a 'fingers of one hands job to count them.
By contrast, how many times have we been humiliated? I can think of several right off the top of my head.
Whenever 'winning top four' became a priority because of the need of 'CL money'. We then use this CL money to 'win top four' again. All other priorities disposable.I just want to know why so many fans have such low standards for this club?
Not many glorious seasons had 'fantastic football over five matches'. Even the Treble season had scrappy one-nil matches away to mighty Charlton and Coventry.This.
Even in his first season when we finished 3rd, we hardly had more than 5 games where we actually played fantastic football. Most of the wins were either scrappy, tight, or won by individual moments of brilliance.
And the less said about last season, the better.
This.
Even in his first season when we finished 3rd, we hardly had more than 5 games where we actually played fantastic football. Most of the wins were either scrappy, tight, or won by individual moments of brilliance.
Two of our best games in that first season were actually both draws. One against Spurs, and one against Barca. We played some really nice football in both those matches, yet only managed to draw.
And the less said about last season, the better.
Agreed, wouldn't be surprised that the decision to keep it was just to get their sticks in a row.Ten Hag, in my opinion, has been kept on as the club goes through its football restructuring.
The things he has done well, such as bringing our youngsters up to standard will continue.
He has also done well in getting more out of players such as Maguire.
And with all the change going on around him, he's a constant
What he hasn't done well with is defence and attack as witnessed by goals scored and goals conceded.
The refresh in coaching staff is there to address this. As are the new playing recruits.
As far as I can see, he's been given all the support required to succeed and anything short of a successful season and he's gone
I don't know who would be stupid enough to argue EtH is the worst post-Fergie manager, especially over David Moyes, who inherited Fergie's champions and took them to seventh.Results like the below should be once in a tenure results...i.e. they can happen once and we'll accept it as a freak...we now seem to accept them as "part of the process".
Brentford 0-4
Palace 0-4
City 6-3 (was 6-1 until final 2-mins)
Liverpool 0-7
Sevilla 0-3
Add to that the farcical late goals...
"Since 2022-23, United have lost more Premier League games thanks to goals scored in the 90th minute and beyond than any other side (6); they'd only lost two such games in the first 30 campaigns in the competition combined.
And that's just losses...doesn't count points tossed away to draws.
Lest we forget...we also tossed away a 3-0 lead vs a Championship side in the cup semi-final and if that CFs boots were a size smaller would have been dumped out in the final minute.
It's unacceptable, it really is. There's a strong argument to say EtH is our worst-ever PL manager and yet for some reason he's largely avoided the scrutiny OGS, Jose, LvG and Moyes faced, even though their situation RE : football structure was a million times worse under Woodward.
As far as I can see, he's been given all the support required to succeed and anything short of a successful season and he's gone
Quite a specialist player too.With Ugarte coming, he has absolutely nothing left. Not a single excuse. All eyes on him now.
His 13th player. Add Mainoo, Garnacho, Collyer and Amad who I would say are 'his' players. Dalot, Shaw, Bruno and Rashford some of his best players. That's 21 players.
The squad is yours now, third year no excuses.
No. Martinez, Casemiro, Malacia, Eriksen, Antony, Onana, Hojlund, Mount, Mazraoui, De Ligt, Yoro, Zirzkee, Ugarte. I guess would be 14 with Evans.Does the 13 include loans? Like Weghorst and Amrabat?
Everyone makes mistake. 38 matches are not big enough of a sample size. Also he did well in the first 38 matches. And he won 2 trophies. You dont think at least that evens things out? Hasnt he earned enough credit to last until Christmas? And did he have any say in any of the transfers this and the previous window, with the exception of Onana?What does the fact that he finished 8th with a negative GD mean then?
I am a neutral fan and I think you should stick with him till Christmas at least. (I am not a supporter of Liverpool or Man City as well lol). Sometimes patience pays off. The team is playing well just being unlucky. The fact he beat Man City in that final means he is better than 95% of options out there. I doubt someone like Maresca Slot Roberto could have done that. The only viable option right now is Tuchel and I dont think he is that good either.
Everyone makes mistake. 38 matches are not big enough of a sample size. Also he did well in the first 38 matches. And he won 2 trophies. You dont think at least that evens things out? Hasnt he earned enough credit to last until Christmas? And did he have any say in any of the transfers this and the previous window, with the exception of Onana?
I don't know who would be stupid enough to argue EtH is the worst post-Fergie manager, especially over David Moyes, who inherited Fergie's champions and took them to seventh.
The idea he has 'largely avoided scrutiny' is a frankly insane statement to make. Bonkers, even with relationship to his predecessors.
The 'anti-EtH' think along the same lines as ABUs. A few examples:
Ad infinitum.
- Whenever EtH wins a trophy, or even a match, it's because he is lucky. When he loses it's 'reality'.
- The trophy we have won is not good enough. Top four should be our priority. If top four is secured, it's not good enough, we should be winning trophies. When top four and a trophy is secured, next season will determine if we truly deserved it.
- Losing by more than two goals is remembered years later, as 'proof', no matter the context.
- If players are injured, it's no excuse or even a reason. He has to 'deal with it' no matter the volume. Besides, it's his coaching staff which is to blame, anyway, even though 'every club gets them'.
- The previous manager, who, at the time was hounded and ridiculed, is to be re-evaluated as 'building something'.
- There is no 'clear football plan', even though what such a term actually means is completely arbitrary.
- Past successes are the 'real way' of doing things. We just got lucky this time. Even though those past successes were, at the time, considered inferior to the 'real' successes of their past.
- When a player is at United, he has it 'coached out of him'. Whenever they leave and string two passes together, they've suddenly improved immeasurably, and we should never have let them go.
- Those demanding the manager sacked will not offer the name of the next candidate, but will detail 'what is needed' without advising what candidate can or will fulfil the criteria.
I agree he'll be clipped if there's no trophies or significant improvement in league position.
My concern is the summer pursuit of a new manager. Some of the names considered were between farcical and underwhelming.
There has been zero improvement in candidate, has there? No plausible replacement has emerged since the aborted process.
We could be looking at Potter, or even worse a pliant Southgate type 'positive vibes' eejit whose qualification extends to 'mates with Dan'.
I rate our squad now. I think the last two seasons the squad and injuries hurt us. No excuses now. Failure is on him.
I think after the initial 3/4 games we will revert to a 4231 with Ugarte mainoo and Bruno being the midfield 3 mainlyStill not really sure what the long term plan is for our shape. Mount, Zirkzee, Ugarte, Hojlund are his big investments (we all know Antony is a dud) but getting them on the pitch with Mainoo, Bruno, Garna and 1 of Amad/Rashford doesn't seem an obvious shape
I presume we're going to continue with the box/diamond in the middle but don't feel that gets enough of our forwards on the pitch, and utd without proper width just feels wrong to my old arse
I hope he has it figured out - still want him to succeed
If we really wanted to fit as many of them in as possible only a 3 back would really work:I think after the initial 3/4 games we will revert to a 4231 with Ugarte mainoo and Bruno being the midfield 3 mainly
He won’t drop Mainoo. Casemiro will be the one dropped, considering they wanted him to leaveIf we really wanted to fit as many of them in as possible only a 3 back would really work:
‐--------------Onana
De Light-Maguire-Martinez
Maz-Casemiro-Ugarte-Dalot
----------------Bruno
--------Hojlund-Zirkzee
For the big games with Yoro replacing Maguire/De Light moving centrally, Shaw replacing Dalot.
For the smaller games we should use the 4-2-3-1 but with underperformers it is hard to pick a fluid team without seeing Ten Hags preferred style of play