FrankDrebin
Don't call me Shirley
Wonder if he knows McTominay's been sold.
Him, Mourinho, and Ole all keeping an eye on the job for when Conte gets the boot come December. Anything to manage McSauce again.Wonder if he knows McTominay's been sold.
At some point when we lose to a team like Everton this season, he's going to mention that he didn't have the options off the bench to change the game and he'll elude to McTomminay's goals from last season.Probably not, but it's great to see Ashworth/Wilcox doing things ETH obviously wont agree with, or elect to do himself. First his staff get swapped out, now his go-to game-saver is sold.
This almost deserves its own thread. Shows the shocking levels of game management under Ten Hag. Triple the amount of last minute winners conceded in two years verses the previous 29 years. I mean what the actual feck?
Last minute equalisers conceded in PL History:
TEN HAG ARRIVES:
- 98/99 - Tottenham 2-2 Man Utd (Sol Campbell 90th min - 12/12/98)
- 98-99 - Liverpool 2-2 Man Utd (Paul Ince 90th min – 05/05/99)
- 00/01 - West Ham 2-2 Man Utd (Davor Sucker 90th min – 26/08/00)
- 07/08 – Arsenal 2-2 Man Utd (William Gallas 90+1 – 03/11/07)
- 10/11 – Fulham 2-2 Man Utd (Brede Hangelaand 90th min – 22/08/10)
- 10/11 – Everton 3-3 Man Utd (Mikel Arteta 90+2 – 11/09/10)
- 10/11 – Birmingham 1-1 Man Utd (Lee Bowyer 90th min – 28/12/10)
- 12/13 - Tottenham 1-1 Man Utd (Clint Dempsey 90+3 - 20/01/13)
- 13/14 - Cardiff 2-2 Man Utd (Kim Bo-Kyung 90+1 - 24/11/13)
- 15/16 - Newcastle 3-3 Man Utd (Peter Dummett 90th min - 12/01/16)
- 15/16 - Chelsea 1-1 Man Utd (Diego Costa 90+1 - 07/02/16)
- 17/18 - Leicester 2-2 Man Utd (Harry Maguire 90+4 - 23/12/17)
- 18/19 - Chelsea 2-2 Man Utd (Ross Barkley 90+6 - 20/10/18)
- 19/20 - Sheffield Utd 3-3 Man Utd (Oli McBurnie 90th min - 24/11/19)
- 19/20 - Man Utd 2-2 Southampton (Michael Obafemi 90+6 - 13/07/20)
- 20/21 - Man Utd 3-3 Everton (Dominic Calvert-Lewin 90+6 - 06/02/21)
Last minute winners conceded in PL History:
- 22/23 - Crystal Palace 1-1 Man Utd (Michael Olise 90+1 - 18/01/23)
- 23/24 - Brentford 1-1 Man Utd (Kristoffer Ajer 90+9 - 30/03/24)
- 23/24 - Chelsea 4-3 Man Utd (Cole Palmer 90+10 – 04/04/24)
TEN HAG ARRIVES:
- 06/07 – Arsenal 2-1 Man Utd (Thierry Henry 90+3 – 21/01/07)
- 19/20 - Man Utd 1-2 Crystal Palace (Patrick van Aanholt 90+3 - 24/08/19)
- 22/23 - Arsenal 3-2 Man Utd (Eddie Nketiah 90th min - 22/01/23)
- 22/23 - Brighton 1-0 Man Utd (Alexix McAllister 90+9 - 04/05/23)
- 23/24 - Arsenal 3-1 Man Utd (Declan Rice 90+6 - 03/11/23)
- 23/24 - Man Utd 1-2 Fulham (Alex Iwobi 90+7 - 24/02/24)
- 23/24 - Chelsea 4-3 Man Utd (Cole Palmer 90+11 – 04/04/24)
- 24/25 - Brighton 2-1 Man Utd (Joao Pedro 90+5 - 24/08/24)
But according to the football experts on Stretford Paddock it can never be the manager's fault when their team routinely concede late goals, so there's no point talking about it.
At some point when we lose to a team like Everton this season, he's going to mention that he didn't have the options off the bench to change the game and he'll elude to McTomminay's goals from last season.
Moyes inherited the most poisoned of poisoned chalices, expected to challenge for the title (not top four!) with a team that was crumbling all around him after years of spending restrictions and Glazer neglect. He also had to deal with Woodward as his "DoF" (not in title but in action). His sole summer signing was Fellaini. He was 7th when he was sacked.I don't know who would be stupid enough to argue EtH is the worst post-Fergie manager, especially over David Moyes, who inherited Fergie's champions and took them to seventh.
The idea he has 'largely avoided scrutiny' is a frankly insane statement to make. Bonkers, even with relationship to his predecessors.
The 'anti-EtH' think along the same lines as ABUs. A few examples:
Ad infinitum.
- Whenever EtH wins a trophy, or even a match, it's because he is lucky. When he loses it's 'reality'.
- The trophy we have won is not good enough. Top four should be our priority. If top four is secured, it's not good enough, we should be winning trophies. When top four and a trophy is secured, next season will determine if we truly deserved it.
- Losing by more than two goals is remembered years later, as 'proof', no matter the context.
- If players are injured, it's no excuse or even a reason. He has to 'deal with it' no matter the volume. Besides, it's his coaching staff which is to blame, anyway, even though 'every club gets them'.
- The previous manager, who, at the time was hounded and ridiculed, is to be re-evaluated as 'building something'.
- There is no 'clear football plan', even though what such a term actually means is completely arbitrary.
- Past successes are the 'real way' of doing things. We just got lucky this time. Even though those past successes were, at the time, considered inferior to the 'real' successes of their past.
- When a player is at United, he has it 'coached out of him'. Whenever they leave and string two passes together, they've suddenly improved immeasurably, and we should never have let them go.
- Those demanding the manager sacked will not offer the name of the next candidate, but will detail 'what is needed' without advising what candidate can or will fulfil the criteria.
I agree he'll be clipped if there's no trophies or significant improvement in league position.
My concern is the summer pursuit of a new manager. Some of the names considered were between farcical and underwhelming.
There has been zero improvement in candidate, has there? No plausible replacement has emerged since the aborted process.
We could be looking at Potter, or even worse a pliant Southgate type 'positive vibes' eejit whose qualification extends to 'mates with Dan'.
Win two trophies in two years. That's literally what is keeping him in a job. If he ends the season trophyless and outside the top four he will be gone.Moyes inherited the most poisoned of poisoned chalices, expected to challenge for the title (not top four!) with a team that was crumbling all around him after years of spending restrictions and Glazer neglect. He also had to deal with Woodward as his "DoF" (not in title but in action). His sole summer signing was Fellaini. He was 7th when he was sacked.
EtH has now overseen the spending of £600m on signings. Our football is dire. We finished 8th last season - maybe you didn't notice? We rarely win away, we rarely win convincingly, we often lose to teams with half our resources and quality and once every couple of months we get absolutely embarrassing spanked by someone.
All of the other arguments aren't worth addressing because they're all strawman arguments or arguments other people have made. I'll only address arguments I have made, and my argument is he's spent the most money and achieved the worst results overall in the league (which is where I'll judge United managers) and so for those simple reasons, he's the worst for me.
In fact....I could take ALL of that IF the football was half-decent and there were signs of some kind of structure or system being implemented (see Arteta at Arsenal), but we still look incredibly poorly coached.
So he doesn't pass the eye-test, he doesn't get results...what has he done to deserve folk defending him so doggedly?
Moyes inherited the most poisoned of poisoned chalices, expected to challenge for the title (not top four!) with a team that was crumbling all around him after years of spending restrictions and Glazer neglect. He also had to deal with Woodward as his "DoF" (not in title but in action). His sole summer signing was Fellaini. He was 7th when he was sacked.
Win two trophies in two years. That's literally what is keeping him in a job. If he ends the season trophyless and outside the top four he will be gone.
Problem is not winning the game, problem is that we are not able to play our style against teams like Brighton when we had complete squad.
Players clearly dont know the style yet (if ETH has any), nor how to interact with each other on the field. They try to play possession football but the ball is always in our box and I dont feel our defense has much confidence in that style nor I feel our defense seem comfortable with ball in that position. And at the end, results is always same , one of the defensive players will hoof the ball to attacker.
And we see as soon as the match start, non-stop pressing from our attackers , which will exactly last 20 mins. Is it only me or does every one see our attackers(bar Bruno) are already exhausted after first 20 mins ?
If we are close to challenging trophies, we should not be seeing above issues which we have been evident in last season as well.
Except Martinez, I still dont feel any of the players bought by ETH are better than the players they are replacing.
Dwight Yorke wants him sacked.
Dwight Yorke wants him sacked.
Yeah, but my point is, when I put forward an argument, I expect the poster to address that argument / those arguments and not list some things that other people have said (or supposedly said) and argue those points against me.Moyes inherited a squad who had just won the Premier League and had an average age of 28.
There's no way EtH inherited a better set-up. No way, Jose, or Ole, or Ralf...
The bulletpoints you refer to are not as much 'strawmen' arguments as much as they are worn-out narratives posing as fact.
They're all in this thread, alone. Go see.
Win two trophies in two years. That's literally what is keeping him in a job. If he ends the season trophyless and outside the top four he will be gone.
Win two trophies in two years. That's literally what is keeping him in a job. If he ends the season trophyless and outside the top four he will be gone.
At some point when we lose to a team like Everton this season, he's going to mention that he didn't have the options off the bench to change the game and he'll elude to McTomminay's goals from last season.
So true. I want us to get back to where we were but I just can't stand the smug pricky, sorry.This will 100% happen, you're bang on.
Grim.
Would be happy to see Antony shipped off. Others are fine imo.Wonder what will happen to the ajx old boys fc when the sacking eventually happens.
Wonder what will happen to the ajx old boys fc when the sacking eventually happens.
Who said he wants to play attacking football?Thought I'd bring another stat in.
Of the 117 games Hag has been in charge of, we have scored 3 or more goals in just 30 games, so around 25%.
16 of the games in his first season, 14 in the second. Although I dont have the outright wins and losses, many of these 30 games include 4-3 defeats or wins against lower league teams in the cup games. Only 13 games in the 78 Premier league games have we scored 3 or more goals, around 16%.
For a guy that wants to play attacking football, there is literally zero evidence of this. The start to the season is absolutely pathetic. I feel another sacking is coming in November and that is why RVN has been nought in, to cover.
If they're applicable, they're applicable and not 'strawmen'.Yeah, but my point is, when I put forward an argument, I expect the poster to address that argument / those arguments and not list some things that other people have said (or supposedly said) and argue those points against me.
At this stage, I would say that folks who want to argue to keep EtH have to work harder to justify their position, because EtH is breaking all the wrong records left, right and centre and our performances are as bad as the stats
Yes, that's fair.At this stage, I would say that folks who want to argue to keep EtH have to work harder to justify their position, because EtH is breaking all the wrong records left, right and centre and our performances are as bad as the stats
We ought to have won the EL in his first season but we wasted umpteen chances to bury Sevilla at OT. Second leg was an error strewn disasterclass.He should be looking to win the Europa League
He often states in post match reviews how he wants to play attacking football. That comment was less about what I want, which of course would total football.Who said he wants to play attacking football?
ETH comes with a lot of credit and assumption of being a "good coach", because we wanted to believe he's a modern, attacking-football-style oriented manager. But that doesn't seem to be the case, he's just like any other manager out there - his team beats weaker opponents (as expected), and if you get him better players he will get better results. It's all about the players, not coaching by Ten Hag.
This. We should be aiming to win it. We’re favourites, or one of the favourites.He should be looking to win the Europa League this year, there is no reason we shouldnt win it given the squad we now have and the fact no Champions League sides will drop down.
And could mean we hire southgateThe ones who say Ten Hag will be gone by Xmas: that’s a bit mental and premature.
Didn't know that. Hadn't paid much attention to the new structure as yet. He should absolutely be looking to win it.He should be looking to win the Europa League this year, there is no reason we shouldnt win it given the squad we now have and the fact no Champions League sides will drop down.
I don’t think I could make it through watching two games if that happens. It’s a special kind of torture.And could mean we hire southgate