Ten Hag has serious issues he needs to fix this season:
1. Rashford
2. Midfield after 70th Minute
3. Game management after 85th Minute
1. Rashford
2. Midfield after 70th Minute
3. Game management after 85th Minute
Erik ten Hag | 2024/25 | Sacked
- Thread starter Cheimoon
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Absolutely.
I hope so mate.
Goalscoring too. We scored the same amount of goals as teams who come 10th in the league
I still don't know why we keep ETH, there are so many good coaches around that use players at his disposal with good results. If Erik is that good, he doesn't need half a billion pounds to build a mid-table standard side. Roberto De Zerbi has got Marseille scoring freely, looks at how Chelsea beat Wolves with a group of players that hardly plays together. Over at United, we decided to stick to ETH for the next 3 years. Why? Anyone can provide a good answer?
Which is a bigger thing to fix than the other 3 he listed. But I do feel if he somehow can ‘fix’ Rashford, goalscoring will be less of an issue.
'Fixing' Rashford suggests his normal level is much higher, it's not. 22/23 was an outlier where 10 of his goals came in a 10 game spell.
6 in just over 2 seasons, terrible. On the other hand, just 2 defeats in 30 years is impressive. 30 years
There is a confounding factor here. Increase in stoppage time since last season beginning.
However I do think there's an issue for us. Games do get stretched in the later stages for everyone but we get way more stretched and vulnerable than City/Arsenal/Liverpool or we keep giving the ball away trying to counter.
What lie?
Villarreal played Ole. Scored from a setpiece, then, after we scuffed an equaliser, they settled into a low-block and controlled matters until penalties.
Emery did a job on Solskjaer, and the following season many others followed suit. Dean Smith included. I love Ole, but his failure to win honours at United is exactly that: failure.
EtH is the superior coach.
Think they're wound up EtH remains, but who Ineos truly want as manager is by far their biggest decision and the primary indicator of direction.
We were the better team in that final.
The ridiculously bad goal difference and worse points total over the same number of games says he's not a superior coach in the slightest.
If we were a competent team then the extra match time would result in more wins.
We’ve thrown away so many 2 goal leads too. Then you remember the CL campaign that he made his name in ended with them throwing away a 3 goal lead and a 96th minute Spurs winner. All makes sense.
I think it's a clear issue with the strongest evidence (low xG, poor goal difference) that under Erik Ten Hag United don't win games comfortably.
It's a reason why Mctomminay has featured as much as he has, also observe the percentages for possession over two consecutive seasons averaging 51.7%.
Teams that control more of the game have a much stronger basis to win with more conviction.
Does it really matter though? We used to be kings of stoppage time when it was 3-4 minutes on average, now we dread it because it’s 4-6 minutes?
We weren't, dude.
We played, yet again, into the opposition's plan thanks to the vast limitations of the manager.
Your 'ridiculous bad goal difference' angle is mitigated by the actually ridiculous injury crisis and fact we, unlike under Ole, won a trophy beating the league champions in the final.
I reiterate, I do not thing ten Hag is 'the answer', I'm just sick of disgruntled fans talk up mediocrity or encourage Ineos to gamble on who knows what.
Criticism of ETh is fair in a lot of ways, but blaming him for the players mentally collapsing at the end of games is ridiculous. It’s not tactical or management decisions that make players forget how to do basic footballing things like mark players or commit stupid fouls in the box. Thats on the players for being a mixture of immature, mentally weak, or low football IQ.
It’s not like ETH told Dalot to be on the opposite side of the field when Brighton scored their 2nd goal or like he told the entire defense…”hey everyone just ball watch and nobody scan for runners in behind”. Thats basic shit that shouldn’t have to be coached.
It’s not like ETH told Dalot to be on the opposite side of the field when Brighton scored their 2nd goal or like he told the entire defense…”hey everyone just ball watch and nobody scan for runners in behind”. Thats basic shit that shouldn’t have to be coached.
I just want to know why so many fans have such low standards for this club?
Do those people live in a bubble and not pay attention to what's happening outside of Man Utd? Do they not watch other top teams such as Liverpool, Arsenal and City and see how they dominate each and every match by controlling the game through possession?
Do you not aspire that for us?
ETH has ZERO interest in us controlling games that way even though that's the way all the top teams play. We look technically inept every single game. It's like whiplash watching other teams play.
You still have people making excuses for this guy after two whole seasons and hundreds of millions of pounds worth of signings... People really delude themselves into thinking adding one or two more players to the first XI will have us playing tiki taka. It doesn't take this long to have a team playing the way you want and if THIS is the way Ten Hag wants us to play then Jesus Christ. His whole game plan seems to revolve around pressing and nothing else. You can control games easier through keeping the ball than by pressing. The ball moves faster than any player.
My prediction is there won't be much change this season from last. Only we probably won't have a trophy to show for it at the end.
I don't know when but one day we'll hire a manager who will get us playing "modern football" where we're actually good on the ball and can keep possession and a lot of you will be shocked at how quickly a good competent manager can achieve this...
Do those people live in a bubble and not pay attention to what's happening outside of Man Utd? Do they not watch other top teams such as Liverpool, Arsenal and City and see how they dominate each and every match by controlling the game through possession?
Do you not aspire that for us?
ETH has ZERO interest in us controlling games that way even though that's the way all the top teams play. We look technically inept every single game. It's like whiplash watching other teams play.
You still have people making excuses for this guy after two whole seasons and hundreds of millions of pounds worth of signings... People really delude themselves into thinking adding one or two more players to the first XI will have us playing tiki taka. It doesn't take this long to have a team playing the way you want and if THIS is the way Ten Hag wants us to play then Jesus Christ. His whole game plan seems to revolve around pressing and nothing else. You can control games easier through keeping the ball than by pressing. The ball moves faster than any player.
My prediction is there won't be much change this season from last. Only we probably won't have a trophy to show for it at the end.
I don't know when but one day we'll hire a manager who will get us playing "modern football" where we're actually good on the ball and can keep possession and a lot of you will be shocked at how quickly a good competent manager can achieve this...
The goal difference was poor in 22/23 too. A freak Rashford spell saved it from being similar to last.
If this isn't mediocrity I don't know what is.
For all the talk of him transitioning us into a pressing machine. Brighton still did more running than us.
He's often stated he wants to build a team that runs more than the opposition, it's not materialising.
When it happens over and over again, it's a coaching issue.
Is it mental collapse though?
Point is we end up stretched in a basketball style match. For example Mainoo ended up pressing the GK in stoppage time for no reason other than cuz he was too tired to track back. From the resulting pass by GK, Brighton attacked which led to the goal. That's an example of how our style results in stretched games where more errors are likely to happen. That's on ETH for not valuing possession and control more.
One of the more mind numbing arguments I’ve ever read was this rhetoric being spouted throughout the spring
Ok, tell me how do you coach players forgetting how to play near the end of games? Thats a mental thing.
This squad as shown to be mentally weak in more ways than one in the past 5 years. Turning on managers, leaking stuff to press, not showing up in big games, it’s the spine of the team. Thankfully we’re getting rid of a lot of those guys but I think we still have quite a few mentally weak guys in the team.
Bingo. It’s not “mental collapse” because that would suggest that we are firmly on top in these games and then just let it slip away. The truth is all of these games are on a knife’s edge and is super end to end so you’re bound to concede more than normal
That was EtH's first season, in which he took over the Solskjaer/Rangnick clusterfeck and won a trophy, qualified for a final and qualified for the CL.
Face it. He surpassed Ole in the first season.
Furthermore, we cannot call our successes 'freak' and simultaneously demand everything wrong as proof of EtH's ineptitude.
Excellent post.
It's both tactical and mental.
Players being gassed is a different story and something you can criticize ETH for. The ping pong style from last season wasn’t sustainable. But we didn’t play that way against Brighton and the mistakes in that game that lead to goals were exhaustion, it was mental lapse. Maguire letting the cross go for the first was mental lapse, Dalot ball chasing on the second was mental lapse, nobody scanning and just watching the ball on the second was mental lapse.
Some of the stuff last year could be down to exhaustion but there was also a lot of brain dead decisions like the game where Dalot (maybe against Chelsea) committed an obvious foul in the box when it wasn’t needed. It’s just lack of bottle and mental strength. I fully believe at its core this team still has a ton of mentally weak players that look for a way out rather than fight. Especially senior guys like Slab, Rash, Shaw.
Mentality is an aspect of coaching. As is setting up your team in a way that mitigates or minimizes their weaknesses (e.g. tactics to retain the ball and slow down the tempo in the closing minutes when trying to hang onto a result).
When he manages back to back top 4 finishes come back to me. The fact that he was even worse than a season you describe as a 'clusterfeck' says it all.
Ok let’s address “tactics to retain the ball”. Since most of the issues were last season, let’s look at the squad available and you tell me that this team is capable of keeping the ball. Back line of something like Dalot, Maguire, Evans, AWB with a midfield 3 of Bruno, Mainoo, and Casemiro. If that team was capable of keeping possession and building from the back, don’t you think we would have done that more in games rather than play that back and forth style? We played that way because our back four couldn’t build out, couldn’t handle the press, and our midfield (specially Cas) weren’t capable of being the outlet to help. So we had to player perpetually on the counter.
People need to understand last seasons style wasn’t a choice, it was forced due to the players available.
It's just not true though. Ten Hag is a cup Manager, Ole has better stats across the board in his league form. The exact same win percentage after 78 games, but having lost 10% less, scored 21 more goals and conceded 17 less. Resulting in a GD of +14 for Ten Hag after 78 (!!) games compared to Oles +52. In terms on unbeaten runs, Ole's highest in the league was 14 games, his 2nd highest run, 13 games, his third highest run 12. Ten Hags? His highest is 6 games unbeaten, his 2nd and 3rd highest are both 5 games. He's utter crap in the league and has been since he walked through the door here. Zero consistency.
Ten Hags actually our 4th best league Manager, even LvG managed a higher points per game ratio. I'm not saying that Ole was better, just that in my opinion they're both about the same quality and neither good enough to take us where we want to be.
Back-to-back CL finishes being a clinching argument for quality is depressing. Turning into Spurs.
Or we would be if Solskjaer still managed us.
How is a trophy winning season worse than a non-trophy winning season? I’d appreciate this if we were relegated or something, but we finished eighth in the midst of an awful injury crisis, still won a cup and denied City a double.
Crepes.
Ole never won us the league, just as ten Hag has not and likely will not. The key difference is Solskjaer won absolutely nothing otherwise.
Distant second place finishes are distant second place finishes. I’d agree with you if Ole was involved in a serious title race or something, but nothing there, either.
Perugia once went an entire season unbeaten. They didn’t win the league, either.
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A second place finish certainly seems distant now
League is our bread and butter. Being terrible in the league week after week means more to me than winning a 6 game competition. You can disagree, that's fine. But I would much rather us play good football on a consistent basis than play abysmal football for 95% of the season. Ole gave us better consistency, gave us more goals, gave us less goals conceded (which given the shit he got for our bad defense is astonishing), gave us more high scoring games and went on significantly longer streaks of form. I was generally happier watching us play under Ole than I ever have been under Ten Hag. I hate losing, we lose a lot.
Sadly that's where we're we've been dragged down to though.
Each to their own but I invest too much time in us week in week to be not bothered about the league just because the players are able to turn up for the cup games at the end of the season. League has always been the biggest sign of quality for me.
We’re resourced enough for both league and cup.
Solskjaer, unlike EtH, failed at both.
Nobody is asking you to be ‘not bothered about the league’ or to prioritise cups in favour of one or the other.
The argument is curious. The league is more important because we can finish top-four and therefore qualify for, hello, another cup?
Anyway, whatever your opinion, Ole clearly failed, bless him, and those claiming he was somehow brilliant despite winning nothing are setting a dangerous precedent going forward. The fact he has not been able to secure employment since his removal speaks volumes.
EtH’s various acolytes may also be, but they at least have their arguments in tune with winning trophies.
Now you're just wumming. And not very good at it.
| Rk | Squad | MP | W | D | L | GF | GA | GD | Pts | xG ▼ | xGA |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 4 | Liverpool | 2 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 4 | 0 | +4 | 6 | 5.1 | 0.8 |
| 1 | Manchester City | 2 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 6 | 1 | +5 | 6 | 4.1 | 1.2 |
| 10 | Manchester Utd | 2 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 2 | 2 | 0 | 3 | 3.9 | 2.5 |
| 9 | West Ham | 2 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 3 | 2 | +1 | 3 | 3.7 | 3.3 |
| 5 | Tottenham | 2 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 5 | 1 | +4 | 4 | 3.6 | 2.0 |
| 7 | Nott'ham Forest | 2 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 2 | 1 | +1 | 4 | 3.6 | 1.3 |
| 2 | Brighton | 2 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 5 | 1 | +4 | 6 | 3.5 | 1.9 |
| 14 | Bournemouth | 2 | 0 | 2 | 0 | 2 | 2 | 0 | 2 | 3.5 | 2.9 |
| 12 | Aston Villa | 2 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 2 | 3 | -1 | 3 | 3.2 | 3.2 |
| 8 | Chelsea | 2 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 6 | 4 | +2 | 3 | 2.6 | 2.7 |
| 17 | Crystal Palace | 2 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 1 | 4 | -3 | 0 | 2.5 | 2.9 |
| 19 | Wolves | 2 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 2 | 8 | -6 | 0 | 2.4 | 2.9 |
| 11 | Fulham | 2 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 2 | 2 | 0 | 3 | 2.2 | 3.0 |
| 3 | Arsenal | 2 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 4 | 0 | +4 | 6 | 2.1 | 1.7 |
| 6 | Newcastle Utd | 2 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 2 | 1 | +1 | 4 | 1.9 | 4.0 |
| 13 | Brentford | 2 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 2 | 3 | -1 | 3 | 1.9 | 3.7 |
| 16 | Southampton | 2 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 0 | 2 | -2 | 0 | 1.9 | 2.5 |
| 15 | Leicester City | 2 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 2 | 3 | -1 | 1 | 1.6 | 2.9 |
| 20 | Everton | 2 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 0 | 7 | -7 | 0 | 1.4 | 3.8 |
| 18 | Ipswich Town | 2 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 1 | 6 | -5 | 0 | 0.7 | 5.9 |
I know it's a very small sample size of 2 games, but it's clear to me that we have made imrpovements in creating chances. However, our main issue lies in our forwards' inability to convert these opportunities into goals. Rashford, Bruno, Amad, Garnacho, and Mount have all been guilty of missing several good chances so far. This team still seems to be suffering from a lack of confidence to me.
The high expected goals against (xGA) is partly due to the clear-cut chances we conceded, particularly against Brighton. For instance, if Maguire had cleared the initial cross—something he was well-positioned to do—we might have easily avoided their first goal.
While some may argue that Fulham could have recorded a higher xG against us due to Andreas' missed 2v1 situation, the same argument applies to us. Amad's messing up in a 3v2 situation against Brighton was a similar missed chance for us.
This pattern of missed chances has also been evident in pre-season games, like against Liverpool, and in the Community Shield match against City, where we created multiple good opportunities but struggled with finishing. While there is a call for a world-class striker, it's important that our current forwards should still be able to capitalize on their chances, as not every chance will fall to that striker. Teams like Liverpool and Arsenal benefit from contributions across their squad—Jota and Diaz for Liverpool, and Saka, Odegaard, and Trossard for Arsenal to name a few.
The result against Brighton was particularly hard to take because we performed reasonably well but lost due to lapses in concentration from our defense. In my view, ETH's job depends significantly getting these players to finish their chances. Both he and the new coaching staff have a huge task on their hands in that regard.
Fair enough mate. And yes I'd largely agree I don't think his ideal style of football is a million miles away from what Ole employed. And it doesn't seem to focus on possession.
I've been concerned for a while now. I'm just not seeing the makings of a title winning style.
That's crazy, you'd have thought he managed to do better than that in his first season given where we finished and how poor some of the others were.
Good job literally no one is doing that then. You don't have to be anywhere near brilliant to show more in the league than what Ten Hag is. It's an extremely low bar.
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