Erik ten Hag | 2024/25 | Sacked

Erik ten Hag

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Over the last year, Manchester United has the worst head-to-head record among the "big six" clubs, winning just 1 out of 10 games, drawing 3, and losing 6, which equates to only 6 points from these crucial fixtures. This includes defeats to key rivals like Arsenal, Liverpool, and Tottenham.

Mikel Arteta's Arsenal performed the best with an unbeaten record in "big six" clashes.
But again… do you win anything for that?
 
Well Arteta did win FA cup in his debut season. So “has done more” in your definition means “won a mighty Carabao Cup”?
Pretty ETH won an FA cup aswell. So again. That’s more than Arteta. And I was referring to arsenal as a club winning next to nothing in the last 10 years. Our worse period would be most clubs golden era
 
Why? I mean all it means is that we wanted someone promising but that it hasn’t worked out. Shit happens
But it worked for the first season when he exceeded expectation.
Have we now become a club that sacks a manager as soon as it is not going great....I would like to think we are better than that.
 
No one is saying forever but for a manager to surpass expectation in his first season and then not so good in the second but still win the biggest domestic Cup in the world beating arguably the best team in world football in the process is hardly ruining the club.
It was not so long ago that we were saying this was the best transfer window we have had in years but now it is a disaster...you could not make this shit up:nervous:
He's set us back years with his transfer business alone.

People really jumped the gun on a transfer window where we arguably didn't improve the starting XI.
 
But it worked for the first season when he exceeded expectation.
Have we now become a club that sacks a manager as soon as it is not going great....I would like to think we are better than that.

Yes because that's the way most clubs work, we might have to burn through a couple of more yet until we find the right answer
 
He's set us back years with his transfer business alone.

People really jumped the gun on a transfer window where we arguably didn't improve the starting XI.
Come on ...it is not that bad
Admittedly Antony is an absolute shocker and Casemiro we overpaid and put him on a contract 2 years longer than we should have but he cannot be blamed for that.
The rest are young and we are looking at potential being realised and that has been our way anyway.
 
Just fyi - it has been reported, that this is a regular meeting that has been scheduled way before the latest results or events. So it doesn't have the character of an emergency meeting at all.
Thanks, I thought that may have been the case and it was probably just Sky Sports sensationalism.
 
While I wasn't completely sold on him myself before he came, he was worth a try. Just because anyone wanted him in the first place doesn't mean they have to stick by him forever while he completely ruins us (like some are).
It indicates you can take fan opinions with a pinch of salt. I didnt even know who he was, but it seemed like 90% of fans were convinced he was 'that guy'. Browsing social media and on here, everybody seemed to be on board, I began to get excited and was duped into thinking this guy was the real deal.

So when names like Potter or Southgate pop up I tend to quickly scroll by the outrage comments. Maybe we need to take a gamble with the least fan favourites and skip the guys 90% would have.

Personally, I would of took Potch or Rodgers, most will laugh, while not having a clue!
 
Can someone explain to me why we extended his contract in the summer? He had a year left and it's not like anyone would've poached him from us. Now we have to pay him off and for what.
 
Pretty ETH won an FA cup aswell. So again. That’s more than Arteta. And I was referring to arsenal as a club winning next to nothing in the last 10 years. Our worse period would be most clubs golden era
In the last 10 years:

Arsenal won 3 trophies (all of them FA cups)
United won 5 trophies (1 Europa League, 2 FA cups and 2 league cups)

So not a huge difference (5 vs 3), especially given that 2 of our trophies were Carabao
 
But it worked for the first season when he exceeded expectation.
Have we now become a club that sacks a manager as soon as it is not going great....I would like to think we are better than that.

Did he feck.

He took a squad that had finished 2nd 2 years before on 74 points, added Martinez, Eriksen and Casemiro to it. Continued to play the same way they were playing and finished 3rd on 75 points.

Once he started implementing his own style of football everythings went tits up since then and we look like an amateur side most games and we're on a steep downward trajectory.
 
Can someone explain to me why we extended his contract in the summer? He had a year left and it's not like anyone would've poached him from us. Now we have to pay him off and for what.
I suspect it was more a show of confidence in him. If Ineos didn't trigger the 1 year extension it would have seriously undermined his authority with the players.

The media would also use it as a stick to beat both the manager and the club with
 
Don't forget that ten Hag actually caused much more damage to the club than just coaching the team badly. He is responsible for the signing of real "superstars" like a totally clueless Antony, the invisible Malacia and so on. Apparently his only criteria was that he knew the player from the Netherlands. Since he arrived, the club signed 21 players, most of them with his recommendation, paid more than 600 euros (!!!) and we're literally worse than ever. INEOS should stop this guy from from causing more damage to the club, in fact they should have done it already. No coincidence that one of our greats, Dwight Yorke stated that this years United is the worst in PL history.
The signings made under his watch have been the worst of any manager post fergie. They are also the least coherent and have left us with a weak, slow and technically poor team. It's obviously very early days under the new structure but the signings we have made could have been made under Woodward. If ineos were unsure about Erik or needed more time to bed on the new structure surely it would have made sense to show restraint this summer
 
But it worked for the first season when he exceeded expectation.
Have we now become a club that sacks a manager as soon as it is not going great....I would like to think we are better than that.
If we'd have sacked him "as soon as it wasn't going great" he would've been gone 3 or 4 times over by now.
 
Did he feck.

He took a squad that had finished 2nd 2 years before on 74 points, added Martinez, Eriksen and Casemiro to it. Continued to play the same e oway they were playing and finished 3rd on 75 points.

Once he started implementing his own style of football everythings went tits up since then and we look like an amateur side most games and we're on a steep downward trajectory.
He tried to play his style the first two games and we got smashed then reverted to old ball amd were OK the rest of the season
 
I just don't have a good feeling on Tuchel. For me, though I think he'll bring a stability to the side, it just feels like a backwards step.
Yeah, Thomas Tuchel will take the side who haven’t had positive goal difference in over 50 games backwards.
 
Yes because that's the way most clubs work, we might have to burn through a couple of more yet until we find the right answer
Hopefully we get the next big thing before another club snaps him up....I cannot see anyone out there at the moment.
 
Arsenal took 2.5 seasons and were out of the CL for 3 before they made a huge and frankly unexpected leap.

I agree ten hags United would need to show more this season, a lot more, to be comparable to that 5th place finish from Arteta. However no manager here will get the time and space Arteta did at Arsenal to get his methods put in. There's an expectation to get it in place and win games in tandem, which just makes the job a lot harder. If Arteta were here he would last beyond his first full season.
So what I’m taking from your post is that we haven’t given ETH enough time?
 
I just don't have a good feeling on Tuchel. For me, though I think he'll bring a stability to the side, it just feels like a backwards step.

I would just see him as a 2 year solution until we're in a position to sign one of the younger up and coming candidates. It's unfortunate that we're in a position we're forced to go for a quick fix again, but it's simply once again down to piss poor decisions and planning from the club. We had an entire summer to sort out all of this and stuck with a failed manager. That's the reality.
 
Did he feck.

He took a squad that had finished 2nd 2 years before on 74 points, added Martinez, Eriksen and Casemiro to it. Continued to play the same way they were playing and finished 3rd on 75 points.

Once he started implementing his own style of football everythings went tits up since then and we look like an amateur side most games and we're on a steep downward trajectory.
Yeah - season one was very mitigated by the fact we were deep in lots of competitions. There was a pervading theme of “we’ll play better next year - this is about setting the tone, getting used to the league etc.” — then after the World Cup we fell off a cliff performance wise and most victories were grinded unattractive wins.

Lot of home form heavy lifting - low scoring but cleansheets from the Varane-Martinez-Shaw combo at the back, and Rashford patches to score enough to see us through.
 
Tuchel isn't the answer either. He falls out with everyone everywhere he goes. In 2 years or less he'll have fallen out with the hierarchy and we'll be back to square one
This old chestnut again. Looking at the owners he’s supposedly fallen out with who could blame him?

He’s a top manager and currently available, work with him and I’m sure he’ll succeed.
 
If we'd have sacked him "as soon as it wasn't going great" he would've been gone 3 or 4 times over by now.
A lot of managers would not last a month if that was the case and thank feck we never thought that way in the early years of Fergie.
 
This old chestnut again. Looking at the owners he’s supposedly fallen out with who could blame him?

He’s a top manager and currently available, work with him and I’m sure he’ll succeed.
Even away from debunking that myth about him — like; how the feck have our fans not realised that it’s exceptionally common to have managers only last 2-3 year cycles?

This whole “long term manager fix” is not a thing anymore. You fix the club and look to set an overarching structure and system, and then you rotate managers around every few years with fresh ideas to get the best of that.
 
But it worked for the first season when he exceeded expectation.
Have we now become a club that sacks a manager as soon as it is not going great....I would like to think we are better than that.
Did you forget last season?
 
So if you had to appoint now who would it be or prefer to wait until end of season with more options
If ETH is sacked after today's game, I'd rather appoint an interim and use the time between now and the end of the season to sign a manager that the management wants rather than someone "that'll do" because all that's available right now.

I think the issue right now in general terms is there's not many top managers around at the moment.
 
I suspect it was more a show of confidence in him. If Ineos didn't trigger the 1 year extension it would have seriously undermined his authority with the players.

The media would also use it as a stick to beat both the manager and the club with
But it was just that - a decision that will end up costing us millions when we have little in the coffers. Clearly, they weren't that confident in him after whoring out for a manager the whole off-season. How does all of that inspire confidence in the mind of the players? It was utter stupidity because we all knew which way and if I recall correctly, we did exactly the same with Ole only to pay him off handsomely a few months later.
 
In the last 10 years:

Arsenal won 3 trophies (all of them FA cups)
United won 5 trophies (1 Europa League, 2 FA cups and 2 league cups)

So not a huge difference (5 vs 3), especially given that 2 of our trophies were Carabao
And 1 of them was a European trophies. That outweighs the 3 arsenal have.
 
But it worked for the first season when he exceeded expectation.
Have we now become a club that sacks a manager as soon as it is not going great....I would like to think we are better than that.

See below. 83 games. Please stop. Eight three games?!?!

Furthering my point about the difference between pre and post League Cup Final, see below.

Games​
W​
D​
L​
W%​
D%​
L%​
GF​
GA​
GD​
Games After League Cup Final​
83​
41​
13​
29​
49.40%​
15.66%​
34.94%​
133​
122​
+11​
Games Before (Including LCF)​
41​
30​
5​
6​
73.17%​
12.20%​
14.63%​
80​
39​
+41​
 
Well you win points which gives you progression in the league.
True mate. But if we was them I guarantee you’d have half of this place moaning because we’d be in a trophy drought and won nothing.. so we’d have nothing to celebrate. Can’t win sometimes
 
He tried to play his style the first two games and we got smashed then reverted to old ball amd were OK the rest of the season
We were generally good for a couple of months and really good in a couple of games (e.g. vs Barcelona). For large parts of the season, however, we were not that good to watch even if we were grinding out results. On the underlying metrics we were actually 6th in the league (all of LvG/Jose/Ole had us performing 4th on underlying metrics in their first full seasons).

What was somewhat concerning is that there was no general trend of improving play over time (it should not necessarily be linear but after league cup the performances were trending downwards quite steadily), and the results seemed to more and more rely on a great form of a couple of players (Casemiro and Rashford). You usually (but not always) see an upward trend in performances under successful coaches, even if the results do not immediately follow.

However the results itself were alright in the first season and definitely above minimum expectations, so EtH got the benefit of the doubt. But there has been no improvement after the first season while squad was more and more reshaped to his liking (or at least with his blessing). Even this is generous as we were mid-table and lower on underlying metrics in last and current season. At the latest since the injury excuse ended arguing in his favor is honestly just a bad faith argument.

I see no way a reasonable person can now conclude that he is any good at this level, unless you cherry pick and attribute all or most of the good things to him and all or most of the bad things to others. It looks like the best he can do is what we witnessed in early 2023 and whatever ideas he has he just cannot implement them at this level.
 
He's set us back years with his transfer business alone.

People really jumped the gun on a transfer window where we arguably didn't improve the starting XI.
That can be said for all of our managers since SAF , maybe minus Moyes. Every one of them got players who were overpaid and became a deadwood. Ole's was bad as well. Maguire and awb for 130m , sancho, donny. Jose's in hindsight has been fine as most of his players turned out to be decent.
 
Even away from debunking that myth about him — like; how the feck have our fans not realised that it’s exceptionally common to have managers only last 2-3 year cycles?

This whole “long term manager fix” is not a thing anymore. You fix the club and look to set an overarching structure and system, and then you rotate managers around every few years with fresh ideas to get the best of that.
Pep is at city for years, arteta is at arsenal quite some time now and klopp was at Liverpool for years. 3 best teams in England.

The 2/3 year managers only last that long because things have went wrong.
 
I would just see him as a 2 year solution until we're in a position to sign one of the younger up and coming candidates. It's unfortunate that we're in a position we're forced to go for a quick fix again, but it's simply once again down to piss poor decisions and planning from the club. We had an entire summer to sort out all of this and stuck with a failed manager. That's the reality.

Yeah that's my thinking on it, get us into a better position and maybe in 2 years could attract Inzaghi/Nagelsmann heck maybe Alonso
 
Come on ...it is not that bad
Admittedly Antony is an absolute shocker and Casemiro we overpaid and put him on a contract 2 years longer than we should have but he cannot be blamed for that.
The rest are young and we are looking at potential being realised and that has been our way anyway.
If we tried selling them we wouldn't even get £400m back for what he's spent £600m on and that's ignoring the huge wages and CL prize money he's cost us.
 
So you want to keep eth?
I see no point in sacking him and having RVN as an interim manager and there is no manager available I can see out there that would be a given that he would any better.
If things happen near the end of the season when it has got no better then I would be happy for us to go after a young manager that has had more success and not just over one season.
 
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