It's also additional two games in February which is already going to be a packed calendar with league and FA Cup.
But we probably won't have to worry about league anymore by then.
Erik ten Hag | 2024/25 | Sacked
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But we probably won't have to worry about league anymore by then.
I’m going to trust understat over you, if that’s ok. You’re just ignoring the stats and doubling down but it’s fine.
But it's not that people are reacting to one game in isolation. It's the disaster of last season, it's getting trashed by Liverpool again, it's disappointing results happening in the same way, it's ten Hag looking no closer to being a United manager now than he was a year ago.
There's barely even a reaction to this game, let alone an overreaction, it's just people saying the same stuff they've been saying for a year.
Dare I say it, I don't think we have to worry about the league now. There are much better teams above us. Yes, it's a long season and we could end up with another manager in a month or so, but if past consistency with ETH is any indication of how the next few months will go, we're looking at another 8th place finish at best.
I'm not angry. Just didn't agree with you. I have no idea what you're making it out to be something more than that
So basically you do genuinely believe our game v them this year was close, we just lacked finishing and on another day we could have won / drawn it.
Obviously us creating all these 'chances' after they already had the game secured has nothing to do with xG looking like that. xG stats are really not reliable when the game is over at half time.
Actually, our game at OT last year had xG almost identical to 0-5 drubbing, even worse than that (0.87 vs 3.92). Yet we somehow drew 2-2 and were close to winning.
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Maybe there is something in between disappointing and catastrophic. We only won 3 of our first 8 official games this season. That’s worse than last season.
I don't think there's any chance in hell of us finishing above any of City, Arsenal and Liverpool but under normal circumstances we should be capable of fighting it out for 4th with Chelsea, Tottenham, Villa and maybe a couple others.
Let's call it "very disappointing"
We have won only 1 of our last 9 European games under ETH, thats terrible
I don't disagree but I also don't see any indication our form and results are going to change anytime soon. It's not like we're missing that one piece of the puzzle that will click into place and all of a sudden we're good again.
Your reply made no sense though. I said I don’t care about the EL group as long as we progress and you said I should care about the EL as it’s our best chance of the CL…so you just posted to agree with me?
It’s time to go. Very simply, I’ve seen enough. We’ve got a good enough squad now to be doing better than the slop we’re seeing.
Yeah, Ugarte was that before he wasn't.
Don't forget that decent first half against Palace!
https://www.skysports.com/football/...de-are-premier-leagues-biggest-underachievers
Honestly. With each passing day, this club is becoming more of a joke than the day before.
Honestly. With each passing day, this club is becoming more of a joke than the day before.
But this simply isn’t true. This is what I don’t get. Assuming we all watch our games, this season we’ve played a lot better in general, it’s been nothing like last season.
I get the results have not matched but it seems some on here are so committed to him being shit, they can’t assess the performances of this season alone which have been a marked improvement. Read the article Sky have just done on us, the difference between this season and last season is night and day.
But no one on here is saying.
‘To be fair we look a lot better but he needs results now’
It’s always:
‘I’ve been ETH out since (insert ancient date to show deep football knowledge), then add some slur about him being a fraud, then say something about how it’s the same as last season.
He may well get sacked but it is demonstrably better from all the underlying stats than last season.
It actually shows that we've improved and that our attacking stats are top 5. Buster with the own goal..
I don’t know about winning it, but Zirkzee had essentially two shots from about 2 metres out so I’d hope we’d have at least scored. Again, you seem una le to comprehend that I’m saying it wasn’t as bad as the 0-5…I just realised you might be the Ole fanatic in which case I now understand.So basically you do genuinely believe our game v them this year was close, we just lacked finishing and on another day we could have won / drawn it.
Obviously us creating all these 'chances' after they already had the game secured has nothing to do with xG looking like that. xG stats are really not reliable when the game is over at half time.
Actually, our game at OT last year had xG almost identical to 0-5 drubbing, even worse than that (0.87 vs 3.92). Yet we somehow drew 2-2 and were close to winning.
I’m confused why you’ve put a smiley face as if you’ve proven something? You’ve given some stats which show we played poorly and yet we drew? Versus playing poorly and getting hammered?
I do think there’s improvements this season, I personally wouldn’t stick with it though as long term I don’t think he’s got it in him to deliver in the league. But my guess is we will stick with him for a little while longer, so who knows, maybe it’ll click and a miracle will happen.
I have won more cups than everyone except Manshesteh City. I feel very sorry for you heh.
It's not the only factor granted but it's been a major one.
And we've been anything but ruthless. Ruthless would have been sacking Moyes in December, Jose and Ole in July when it was clear they weren't going to make us challengers instead of letting it get worse and worse in the hope they could turn it around.
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Yeah, when the game was over. Our xG in the first half when the game wasn't yet done was a whopping 0.08.
This was not a close game at all, we were not 'unlucky with finishing', we were just absolutely horrible. Both these games Liverpool finished within 50 minutes (in which we did not even come close to threatening them) and then cruised for the rest of it, only real difference is 3 goals v 5 goals. It will probably be the same next time we play them as it's been a pattern for our games against them for years (the odd difference being the FA Cup game), they outclass us everytime.
Yep classic Erik and it makes little sense.
Man you are persistent. Your argument scuppers you completely because in the 0-5 it was quite literally all in one half so, again, explain how they are the same?
If you can’t think of something backed up by a fact please spare the thread.
How exactly was it a meaningless game? For fecks sake we're lucky to even be in the Europa League never mind thinking it's beneath us.
Also XG is the most useless BS stat anyway, fecking hate it and all the BS coming out of the massive expansion of the stat betting industry.... XG is like the latest thing that all the stat bell ends bang on about yet it is based on subjective information and unfortunately it is not comprehensive enough to be nearly as useful an indicator as people would make out, it is a manipulator used by the betting industry and little more!
I wonder, when he says in his third season and 600 mil spent, that we are in transition, does he really think that or it is tactical excuse to low demands?
I would rather have lying manager than deluded one.
I would rather have lying manager than deluded one.
Both games were done at 50th minute mark - fact
We created absolutely nothing before the game was done in both games - fact
Matters very little if they chose to stop playing at 3-0 or 5-0, both performances were utterly embarrassing.
The changes are not marked enough to overcome the plethora of issues that are tied to the manager like an anchor.
If you're talking about being objective, then answer these questions objectively:
1. Has his in-game management improved, at all? If yes, in what way(s)?
2. Has he shown improvement in 2nd half of games' management?
3. Do you think it is finishing alone that would change our season, up 'til now, around?
4. Is he doing well with the squad at his disposal?
5. Has he outcoached any team outside of the Barnsley game?
Now if you are being objective, you'll answer these with no spin or self-serving regardless of what that concludes as.
Yeah I think the penny may have finally dropped with a lot of people on that one.
Precisely, many managers have produced better results than us over a longer period of time with much less resources spent on the squad.
That argument people use is dumb. If your pen wasn't working you wouldn't just keep using it, you'd try another and if that didn't work...you'd try another.
The same logic is used for replacing players with no qualms and by other clubs with their managers but here...ugh
The writing is on the wall and has been there since last year. I was ambivalent about keeping him but the options were not great so I was fine with giving him another season and with hopefully some more steel in midfield and hopefully Shaw would come back and Hojlund would kick on. Most of that didnt happen so here we are again.
I don't think ETH is a bad manager, but at the end of the day, the results are what matters most. We had a horrible UCL and were shit in the league, those are the real markers for success, not the Carabao cup. For whatever reason it is not working out. There is nothing to suggest we will kick on from here with ETH. He will continue to have bad/mixed results until December and INEOS will get rid. I'm pretty certain of this.
I don't think ETH is a bad manager, but at the end of the day, the results are what matters most. We had a horrible UCL and were shit in the league, those are the real markers for success, not the Carabao cup. For whatever reason it is not working out. There is nothing to suggest we will kick on from here with ETH. He will continue to have bad/mixed results until December and INEOS will get rid. I'm pretty certain of this.
We have the squad now to challenge for 4th - but, sadly, we don’t have the manager to achieve that.
Not the poster you asked but I'll have a go at it. Assuming we are only talking about this season, as ETH essentially been given another lifeline to show he has something about himself and that this season might be different.
Because the improvement is from literally relegation worthy underlying stats, to a team that finishes 8th place on merit underlying stats. Better, but wasteful, attacking stats and the same, but improved to mid table rather than relegation form, weaknesses at the back.
You can't have it both ways. If you're going to argue these stats are important then you genuinely need us to believe that a Manchester United manager should not be sacked for delivering relegation quality performances over the course of a season according to these metrics. If you don't think they're important and the 'results' ten Hag achieved in spite of the underlying stats last season save him, then you can't complain now when people are pissed off that the results continue to be shit.
But I think you and I both know this. The simple fact is ten Hag started the season on borrowed time and had to hit the ground running. With the best will in the world he hasn't done that and unless he can string together performances and results immediately he's not going to last much longer. The bar is as low as it's ever been for a United manager, and he simply doesn't have the credit in the bank not to reach it.
In the history of Man Utd managers it was seen to be.
You think that's being ruthless?
I think a big part of that was the unwillingness of the Glazers to sack and replace people. It gets expensive.
The stats don’t really matter, but the results do. The table doesn’t lie. We’ve had a relatively easy fixture list so far, with only Liverpool that should have been our only real test. As we stand today Newcastle, Brighton. Forest and Fulham are all above us. That’s a disgrace.
Agree on the manager, and the squad is quite strong but our attackers are horribly overrated. No chance of top 4 when we have mid table wingers and strikers.
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