Erik ten Hag | 2024/25 | Sacked

[sugar_kane]

"You have to go for the second goal and then you kill the game." If that truly is a quote from EtH and if he really ordered Garnacho to "Defend!" around that time, then there is a single responsible person for this. And that's EtH himself.

Too much was made of that by TNT, I don't think there's any harm with drilling into Garnacho that he needs to work hard to track back (which is how I interpreted it).

He wasn't telling him to park the bus.

 

[tomaldinho1]

People really believe that? That we simply lacked finishing but went toe to toe with Liverpool otherwise?

It may have been a meaningless game if it wasn't for the fact that we've been appalling in Europe for so many games in a row. It's clearly not an isolated one off bad result. We were hopeless last season too and this just continues the trend. I don't know how anyone can just simply shrug at this.

You seem to be trying to change what is being discussed? Who said we went ‘toe to toe’? I said it wasn’t like the 0-5 drubbing.

Are these similar aside from being losses?

(xG)
United 1.52 v 1.5 Pool
United 1.36 v 4.05 Pool

 

[tomaldinho1]

You know full well that that's not why people are on his case.

Or perhaps you don't? I've long suspected the only way people can back ten Hag is through some sort of MIB style memory wipe so maybe you really have forgotten last season.

It’s not that people are on his case it’s the overreaction. The residual anger just makes me wonder why people don’t just take a bit of time, the sheer volume of some posters saying the same thing over and over confuses the hell out of me.

 

[tomaldinho1]

You should care about the EL cause we ain't getting back into the CL in any other way.
Right now, there is cause for concern

Read before replying in anger, dear kouroux. Your post makes no sense if you read what I posted.

 

[Phil]

With every underwhelming result back gets more votes. We’re a weird bunch.

 

[tomaldinho1]

1 win in 9 in Europe and you assume we'll progress in the EL... hah.

Ok, we bet? If ETH stay until qualification is over, I think we’ll go through. You don’t.

What does the winner get?

 

[Big Ben Foster]

If the Twente match was such a "meaningless game", why didn't we play a rotated squad?

 

[thisisnottaken1]

With every underwhelming result back gets more votes. We’re a weird bunch.

At this point it seems like some people are just masochists.

 

[Abhinav]

With every underwhelming result back gets more votes. We’re a weird bunch.

I am convinced some of his more vocal supporters are opposition fans or WUMs.

 

[bosnian_red]

Even if we lose all 3, I think the board will look at the fixture list after the break & up to the new year and decide that they should get a good run of results.

I genuinely don't believe they will change until around the time that the stadium redevelopment/build is confirmed at the end of this calendar year. I predict the ETH sacking and the New Stadium announcements will fall in the same week.

The other way to look at it is that changing managers before a favourable run of games is the best time to do it so you have a good chance at building confidence, like when Ole first took over.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

Yeah and league is also meaningless because we won’t get relegated whether we finish 16th or 5th. And we probably won’t finish lower than 10th anyway

CL is also not very important because we aren’t going to win it anyway. Essentially only League Cup and FA Cup are important because if you lose you are out.

Right? Standards have fallen so much, and excuses have become so ridiculous it's pathetic. No joking we have now got the mentality of a mid table club. Our fans too.

 

[Shark]

So we're back in the "three games to save his job" realm now, when in reality, like our previous five managers, they could have all been fired numerous times over collectively. Honestly, it's becoming truly draining mentally to support the club. Even if the football was decent, you could cling onto us holding onto another failed manager for too long, but we have barley anything to cling onto at this point.

 

[Jezpeza]

If the Twente match was such a "meaningless game", why didn't we play a rotated squad?

It’s not a meaningless game. A serious Utd side wins this competition - a much simpler task than finishing top 4 over 38 games when you consider the strength of the EPL. Theres a 3 team mini league in the top 4 between city, arsenal, and Liverpool which no one is breaking this season. Theres then several teams competing for the 1 remaining spot.

But we wont win the europa with ETH because there are some decent mid level well coached teams in there who will outclass us tactically in a way that nullifies our superior individual players. Much the same as we see all the time in the EPL, with the likes of Brighton, Palace etc becoming bogey teams along these lines.

He consistently gets our team playing worse than the sum of its parts and I am sick to the back teeth with the narrative that once Luke Shaw returns or Bruno morphs into a different player to what he is or Rashford can not be a busted flush we are going to turn into prime Barcelona and anyone pointing out anything different is an impatient moron.

 

[red_de_pologne]

Dalot, Maguire, Bruno, Rashford. All still there, all still getting way more minutes than they should. Next manager will have the same issues if they keep trying to play these europa league at best level players.

wait what? Now Dalot is getting stick from redcafe fans ?

 

[manichester]

I must be watching a different team than a lot of supporters, the football at best is tumescent. I am almost 75 years old and have more urgency than the team I watch, a 5 yard pass to an unmarked teammate takes way to long. The coaching must be at fault for this and creates a lazy tempo which is difficult to change when we need it. Every major game is a disappointment United supporters expect and demand more. This weak play promotes a weak mentality and it is no wonder we struggle.

 

[RedSky]

It's the same elsewhere with most of the YouTube fans seemingly happy to give him a pass on pretty much anything.

YouTube fans do it because if he gets sacked then who gives a feck? But if he turns it around and becomes amazing then they can use their videos as an example of them being a footballing prophet.

 

[House Mkhitaryan]

At this point, every time I open my computer or look at my phone, I'm hoping for reports of Ten Hag sacking. Any other United news seems almost irrelevant.

 

[Ayoba]

I mean, if you think about it, our only decent performances this season have been against a league 2 side and a new promoted team who will most likely get relegated. And yet there are some people taking about progress....


Can I cry now?

 

[Jezpeza]

I mean, if you think about it, our only decent performances this season have been against a league 2 side and a new promoted team who will most likely get relegated. And yet there are some people taking about progress....


Can I cry now?

But we havent conceded 25 shots a game. If you look at it from that angle, United are back!

 

[peridigm]

I'm absolutely baffled by some fans' patience with all of this; I can't get my head around it at all.

After the worst season (minus one single result) in living memory, the fabled 'structure' is in place, he's been given the players he's wanted and a very successful summer transfer window.

Then he's started the season with matches against Fulham, Brighton, Liverpool, Southampton, Palace, and FC Twente.

Let's take Liverpool out of it for a second - the truth is that even if you ignore results we look at the level of all those other teams and our matches against them, that's become our level. Each of those games were fairly even, with a bit of to and fro and a touch of luck one side or the other.

But that's become our level - Fulham, Brighton, Southampton, Palace, FC Twente.

We saw how far away from the level we want to be at when we played Liverpool.

But bizarrely a good chunk of fans seem fairly happy with that. They'll accuse me of an agenda because I've left out a League Cup match against League One Barnsley.


Fulham, Brighton, Southampton, Palace, FC Twente.

Jesus.

Too many are analyzing our play from this season and comparing it to our performances from previous seasons claiming the football is better or different. The truth is, it's the same. Fans go all in on a MOTM performance from one player then throw him to the wolves the next, or the two cup wins.

I was for keeping him in the summer, only because the rumoured options were not great. Whoever Ineos wanted, obviously wasn't available, or turned us down. We're in a worse position now since it's harder to take a coach from a team after the season has started. I think he will be sacked within a couple of months, we can only hope it's sooner.

 

[bleedred]

I mean, if you think about it, our only decent performances this season have been against a league 2 side and a new promoted team who will most likely get relegated. And yet there are some people taking about progress....


Can I cry now?

You forgot the "60 minutes domination".

Now you can cry!

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

All this proves is that stats, especially expected goals and big chances are pure bollocks

The problem is 24/25 is just 5 matches so the ranking will be less stable.
Right now Arsenal are ranked 15th on xG but nobody seriously believes that'll be true by the end of the season or that they can't attack.

 

[Jezpeza]

Too many are analyzing our play from this season and comparing it to our performances from previous seasons claiming the football is better or different. The truth is, it's the same. Fans go all in on a MOTM performance from one player then throw him to the wolves the next, or the two cup wins.

I was for keeping him in the summer, only because the rumoured options were not great. Whoever Ineos wanted, obviously wasn't available, or turned us down. We're in a worse position now since it's harder to take a coach from a team after the season has started. I think he will be sacked within a couple of months, we can only hope it's sooner.

Sack is sooner than you think. He’s started throwing the players under the bus. Means the end is nigh

 

[Sarni]

You seem to be trying to change what is being discussed? Who said we went ‘toe to toe’? I said it wasn’t like the 0-5 drubbing.

Are these similar aside from being losses?

(xG)
United 1.52 v 1.5 Pool
United 1.36 v 4.05 Pool

Both games weren't remotely close. Our 1.52 xG in last game came mostly after they were already 2-0/3-0 up, and is not really hugely representative of what happened on the pitch. Saw a post the other day dissecting that - Martinez's overhead kick attempt accounted for more than 0.3 xG when in reality the odds of a player like Martinez hitting that are much lower than 1 in 3. Meanwhile both of their first half goals were lower than that.

Only real difference is they took their foot off the gas at 2-0 this time rather than 5-0. They still created enough in second half to get it to 4 or 5. We were completely outclassed in both games which is the point.

 

[Mike Smalling]

At this point, every time I open my computer or look at my phone, I'm hoping for reports of Ten Hag sacking. Any other United news seems almost irrelevant.

It's not about to happen. The board has just decided to back him before the summer, and the start has been disappointing, but not catastrophic.

He's probably at least 4-5 games away from getting the sack, if they are mostly losses.

 

[red_de_pologne]

Sack is sooner than you think. He’s started throwing the players under the bus. Means the end is nigh

I missed it, who did he throw under the bus?

 

[Jezpeza]

I missed it, who did he throw under the bus?

All of them. Came out saying the players didn't want it and didn't put any effort in.

Sense a rift growing. Probably lost the dressing room

 

[Sarni]

So we're back in the "three games to save his job" realm now, when in reality, like our previous five managers, they could have all been fired numerous times over collectively. Honestly, it's becoming truly draining mentally to support the club. Even if the football was decent, you could cling onto us holding onto another failed manager for too long, but we have barley anything to cling onto at this point.

It's also 1 good result in the next 3 that is going to save him.

 

[PieCrust]

It's not about to happen. The board has just decided to back him before the summer, and the start has been disappointing, but not catastrophic.

He's probably at least 4-5 games away from getting the sack, if they are mostly losses.

I don't know. We're out of the title race (were never contenders, but all the same) and significantly off the pace for top 4 and it isn't even October yet. Then factor in Twente and I'd say the season is very close to being lost, especially since this is year 3; we know what to expect from ETH by now and we saw it in full voice yesterday. A manager tactically lost and who cannot adjust during matches and can't even get subs right.

The only optimism I have is that we had a good transfer window and signed good players that the next manager can work with. There is definitely a foundation and profile there that can work for many systems.

 

[astracrazy]

It's also 1 good result in the next 3 that is going to save him.

So you think if he loses to Spurs and Villa but beats Porto he is safe?

 

[peridigm]

All of them. Came out saying the players didn't want it and didn't put any effort in.

Sense a rift growing. Probably lost the dressing room

He's not lying. The problem is, his preparation and in game management is also at fault.

 

[Mike Smalling]

I don't know. We're out of the title race (were never contenders, but all the same) and significantly off the pace for top 4 and it isn't even October yet. Then factor in Twente and I'd say the season is very close to being lost, especially since this is year 3; we know what to expect from ETH by now and we saw it in full voice yesterday. A manager tactically lost and who cannot adjust during matches and can't even get subs right.

The only optimism I have is that we had a good transfer window and signed good players that the next manager can work with. There is definitely a foundation and profile there that can work for many systems.

We were never expected to challenge for the league, we are only 4 points off the top four, and we have played a single game in a new EL format where the majority of teams go through. Results wise nothing is lost yet. It's just that the play gives no confidence that results will improve. But when have we ever sacked a manager based on how the play looks? Unfortunately, I think we need to watch a lot of shite, before that decision is taken.

 

[Sarni]

So you think if he loses to Spurs and Villa but beats Porto he is safe?

Easily, yes. Win one of 3 and he will consider himself a hero, the fan base will follow and INEOS won't have the guts to touch him.

Porto is perhaps the most tricky one here because we have already been informed EL games are meaningless. But beat Spurs and we could lose 5-0 to Porto and 5-0 to Villa and he'll be heralded as a hero.

 

[GBBQ]

Its meaningless because the top 24 out of 36 teams go through to the knock out stages, Getting a top 8 finish just gets you one less round of games.

I think its more important right now to give the fringe players a chance to impress and rest the first team players for a tough schedule coming up.

Ah I get you now. I’d prefer to have qualification guaranteed earlier but I see what you mean.

 

[Teja]

It's so weird to see that over 20% still want this clown here while we sit in 11th and looking piss poor in the EL again with 2 seasons gone and a few hundred million spent.

It's the same elsewhere with most of the YouTube fans seemingly happy to give him a pass on pretty much anything.

For what it's worth, I voted to back him after the Liverpool game. My reasoning there was we should've sacked him in the summer for Tuchel but given we decided to stick, sacking him after 3 games makes no sense and Hake / RvN as interims will probably do worse than him.

I'm wavering now but just left it on keep mostly due to inertia but also a couple of different factors:

1. The data is not that bad, pretty high up the table in xG, npXG, chance creation, xGA etc.

2. Sample size is too small, I'll probably wait until the second international break and get some more games in before flipping the vote. Yes, the previous two seasons count as sample sizes but the picture is still hazy. Obviously not good enough last season but has the injury excuse and he managed a pretty decent first season with a worse squad and more chaos (Ronaldo, Greenwood sagas) than we have now. If we match his first season's points total that's good enough for me and should be doable.

 

[astracrazy]

Its meaningless because the top 24 out of 36 teams go through to the knock out stages, Getting a top 8 finish just gets you one less round of games.

I think its more important right now to give the fringe players a chance to impress and rest the first team players for a tough schedule coming up.

I'd much rather finish top 8 and go straight to the last 16 than have to do a knock out round which could be against anyone else in 9 to 24 spots. Knowing our luck we'd end up with a tough opposition miles away.

 

[Jezpeza]

He's not lying. The problem is, his preparation and in game management is also at fault.

It wont get better for a simple reason.

Our attack is non functional. If you play Zirkzee he drops into Brunos space. Him and bruno try and slip the wingers in behind. If you play Hojlund none of the wingers we have bar Diallo are remotely interested in giving him any service. You can nullify our wingers by sitting deep and not leaving space behind. Southampton were randomly very positive and played a high line against us. So we were successful. We dont have the coaching or possession players to play through a low block.

Theres literally no combo of out attacking players that is really that good as a unit but if you play Zirzkee it has to be with Mount who will run beyond him.

 

[Fortitude]

We were never expected to challenge for the league, we are only 4 points off the top four, and we have played a single game in a new EL format where the majority of teams go through. Results wise nothing is lost yet. It's just that the play gives no confidence that results will improve. But when have we ever sacked a manager based on how the play looks? Unfortunately, I think we need to watch a lot of shite, before that decision is taken.

If you’re going to use this logic, you can ask: when have we seen how INEOS do things, and all that preceded is irrelevant. We don’t know if they sit on their hands, incompetent like the former regime, so let’s wait and see if/when they pull the plug and under what circumstances.

 

[Mike Smalling]

If you’re going to use this logic, you can ask: when have we seen how INEOS do things, and all that preceded is irrelevant. We don’t know if they sit on their hands, incompetent like the former regime, so let’s wait and see if/when they pull the plug and under what circumstances.

True enough, although we did see them not fire ETH in the summer after our worst league position in ages.

 

[Redstain]

Erik is hands down the worst manager of the top teams I can think of in Europe.

He's a disaster, he's inconsistent and his very best season was a culmination of the imprint of two different managers which he's severely struggled to move away from.

After 650 million spent is there a manager at that ballpark who has made such little progress in over three seasons? I personally cannot recollect such an experience of failure let alone comprehend it.

INEOS dropped the ball, they showed all the right signs in approaching other coaches but likely made a mess of negotiations in coming to terms.

United are nothing more 10-6th position team under his management, it's a perfect reflection in caliber of his competence.

After such a shambolic season last year Erik could only have started well, he didn't have the credibility or leg room to do anything other than win the majority of the opening games regardless of opposition (exception of Arsenal / City).

He's already planted the foundations for another season where United enter into double digits for games lost by February / March.

There's no way on this earth the club persist with him.