Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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Top 4 should be secured now. Looking forward to the FA cup final and eventually next season. Hopefully with new owners!

Solid first season. Great if we can somehow bring home the FA cup.
 
I think he has done a great job given what he inherited. He has also played a blinder with Ronaldo and Maguire, to the point they should both be gone by the end of this summer.

With more outward bound and a couple more in I think he can do some damage next year. I want to see him be a bit braver with giving some young ones minutes though.

Give him Costa, Kim Min-Jae, Kane, Rabiot and Frimpong with lads like Bailly, Williams, Henderson, Elanga, McTominay, Dalot and Maguire heading out then I think we are set to take another step next year.

Need the business to be done before tour at minimum though.
 
kouroux said:
How does not wanting to see Wout play significant minutes equals to wanting instant success ???
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Well, you are not the manager or part of the coaching set-up, and shouldn't tell him who to play and who not to.

Well assuming your opinion matters, what would you have done differently?
Play McNeil? Hugill? :rolleyes:.
 
Anustart89 said:
It's kind of hard to instill a bunch of training ground drills when you play a game every 3.5 games for six months running. Compare that to Brentford and Brighton who have followed a game with recovery + five days of training before the next game.
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Ok but won’t we want to be all 4 competitions next season also so the instilling of methods really just has to happen in that environment. We were counter attacking under SAF but we could keep possession really well. It’s his first season, I’m happy like I said and I want in better players to execute his game plans for sure. Can we bring in 3/4 top players to change our ball keeping ability and drill them. Then those players are new and need another year to bed in so it’s never a perfect coaching environment…I look forward to seeing it happen mind.
 
kouroux said:
I don't agree. You always a choice of not playing the worst striker in the PL. Nothing forces him to do so. Playing with a false 9 would be better
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Today we saw “the worst striker in the PL” have more of an impact on the game in just over 30 minutes than our first choice number 9 had in just over an hour. And that was on one of the rare occasions said number 9 wasn’t injured/unavailable. Which says it all really.

At the end of the day, every teams needs strikers in their squad. Which is why every team has strikers in their squad. The concept of a false 9 doesn’t change that. After getting rid of Ronaldo and with huge question marks over Martial, nobody in their right mind could surely argue that we didn’t need another striker in January.

So the only unknown is whether better strikers than Wout were a) available and b) affordable. I don’t think anyone knows the answers to these questions. And if not, then this shouldn’t be a stick used to beat ETH.
 
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kouroux said:
I don't agree. You always a choice of not playing the worst striker in the PL. Nothing forces him to do so. Playing with a false 9 would be better
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Who would that be ? If the answer is Bruno, help me with the midfield options too. We are running on bare bones. Honestly, I don't understand why certain people can't see that.
 
Top four. Shit squad. No striker. Give him another four or five genuinely top notch players and this guy does the business. Piss around as usual and then he doesn’t.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Today we saw “the worst striker in the PL” have more of an impact on the game in just over 30 minutes than our first choice number 9 had in just over an hour. And that was on one of the rare occasions said number 9 wasn’t injured/unavailable. Which says it all really.

At the end of the day, every teams needs strikers in their squad. Which is why every team has strikers in their squad. The concept of a false 9 doesn’t change that. After getting rid of Ronaldo and with huge question marks over Martial, nobody in their right mind could surely argue that we didn’t need another striker in January.

So the only unknown is whether better strikers than Wout were a) available and b) affordable. I don’t think anyone knows the answers to these questions. And if not, then this shouldn’t be a stick used to beat ETH.
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I would think the answer to your last paragraph is "yes".
 
bosnian_red said:
That we create plenty of chances (which we do), and I mean the amount of goals we score isn't a "big" problem as we've clearly still achieved all our objectives despite it, but he has repeatedly said that we need to be more clinical and score more goals from the chances we create, so I don't see why anyone is trying to pretend like he is ignoring it.
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There was discussion about this in the goalkeepers thread actually, and @sifi36 has pointed out repeatedly (example post) that United haven't actually lost a lot of points because of chances not taken. So it's definitely both true: United haven't really missed a lot of chances that were crucial to decide games; but if they had been more clinical, a lot of games would have been more relaxed (no nerves at the end of you're 3-0 instead of 1-0 up) and would have allowed for more rotation and experimentation.
Matt851 said:
I agree he should only be part of the recruitment process but he seemed to direct a lot of our activity last summer

Clearly, ten hags decision to focus so much of our funds on an average player in Antony had a big impact on the ineffectiveness of our front line
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@Adnan has argued that Ten Hag stepped into a bit of scouting void last summer: the scouting apparatus had justnbeen overhauled and apparently wasn't fully functional yet. You'd have to hope that's better now and less will rely this summer on Ten Hag's obviously relatively limited knowledge of the global player market.

As for Antony, if I remember correctly, he was pursued earlier (when he would have been a lot cheaper), but for some reason was only approved after the poor start - when he was also a lot more expensive and emptied the extra funds that were made available.

Obviously though, it's a lot of money for a player of Antony's level, and again a situation where you'd wish the scouting department had a bit more options prepared.
 
Bringing Weghorst off the bench in some games is a weird stick to beat him with. I think it's clear he doesn't trust Martial's fitness for 90 minutes which is why he's subbed after 60 every game without fail. And Rashford isn't in the squad so we can't put him up front either. This is also something that can very easily be fixed, next season when Weghorst is long gone and we've signed 2 strikers in the summer. "Just stick Bruno up front" people are dreaming, it's far better to have an actual striker up there, it's the lesser of 2 evils.

Lack of game time for Garnacho is probably something that annoys me more.

My main disappointments of the season is he hasn't managed to get us passing the ball better, but I suppose we just have to accept the technical quality in the squad is trash and will take time.

I'd have snapped your hand off at 4th before the season to be honest so I can't complain. The trophy (or trophies) are a bonus.
 
bond19821982 said:
Who would that be ? If the answer is Bruno, help me with the midfield options too. We are running on bare bones. Honestly, I don't understand why certain people can't see that.
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Play Bruno, McFred(since Eriksen was to be subbed) and Casemiro. It's an option there, Wout isn't inevitable as far as I'm concerned but I understand that ETH is a massive fan of his
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Today we saw “the worst striker in the PL” have more of an impact on the game in just over 30 minutes than our first choice number 9 had in just over an hour. And that was on one of the rare occasions said number 9 wasn’t injured/unavailable. Which says it all really.

At the end of the day, every teams needs strikers in their squad. Which is why every team has strikers in their squad. The concept of a false 9 doesn’t change that. After getting rid of Ronaldo and with huge question marks over Martial, nobody in their right mind could surely argue that we didn’t need another striker in January.

So the only unknown is whether better strikers than Wout were a) available and b) affordable. I don’t think anyone knows the answers to these questions. And if not, then this shouldn’t be a stick used to beat ETH.
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Agreed.
 
kouroux said:
Play Bruno, McFred(since Eriksen was to be subbed) and Casemiro. It's an option there, Wout isn't inevitable as far as I'm concerned but I understand that ETH is a massive fan of his
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Thank God he didn't do it. McFred and Case in a ETH midfield is probably the worst option you can ever get. He needs Bruno in midfield.

Now playing false 9 isn't as easy as changing a formation in fifa or fm. If you are playing false 9, you need right and left forwards running making runs into box . Tell me who exactly in our team is going to do that ?
 
Also this false 9 thing, how many teams has done it ? I can only remember Pep doing it with Messi. Has anyone else done it ?
 
dutchred said:
Agree. I would rather have Wout than Jadon or Martial. At leat he gives 100 %. if Martial gave 75 % of waht Wout gives he would be fantastic
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The crazy thing is ETH would have been fully justified in starting WW today based on the respective performances of him and Martial against Wolves. But he gave Martial a chance. A chance he did absolutely feck all with. Yet we’re still being told that he’s a “massive fan” of Wout.
 
He's got most of the big calls right this season, handled the Ronaldo situation immaculately, hamstrung by the owners into playing the second half of the season basically without a striker. Did really well bringing Garnacho into the squad with just enough game time. I'd like to have seen a bit more of Pellistri and a bit less of Antony over the last few months but understand that we couldn't bring him through at the same time as Garnacho. Top 4 and a cup is what we all wanted and he's delivered, hopefully we make it two cups.

Did ok with the first transfer window, Casemiro, Eriksen both excellent additions, Malacia and Antony less certain but let's judge them next year properly. This is a huge transfer window and we need to get it right, but if we stay away from the Eredivise, get a top class striker is and move on the dross, I'm entirely confident that Erik is set for a long successful tenure here.



 
mu4c_20le said:
Because he's been performing so well for us.
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Better than the player he replaced today. Better than the same player when he replaced him in our last match. Which is my point. If anything, ETH made an error in not starting him ahead of Martial today.

None of which makes WW a particularly good striker, obviously. Just better than some of our other options.
 
Cheimoon said:
There was discussion about this in the goalkeepers thread actually, and @sifi36 has pointed out repeatedly (example post) that United haven't actually lost a lot of points because of chances not taken. So it's definitely both true: United haven't really missed a lot of chances that were crucial to decide games; but if they had been more clinical, a lot of games would have been more relaxed (no nerves at the end of you're 3-0 instead of 1-0 up) and would have allowed for more rotation and experimentation.

@Adnan has argued that Ten Hag stepped into a bit of scouting void last summer: the scouting apparatus had justnbeen overhauled and apparently wasn't fully functional yet. You'd have to hope that's better now and less will rely this summer on Ten Hag's obviously relatively limited knowledge of the global player market.

As for Antony, if I remember correctly, he was pursued earlier (when he would have been a lot cheaper), but for some reason was only approved after the poor start - when he was also a lot more expensive and emptied the extra funds that were made available.

Obviously though, it's a lot of money for a player of Antony's level, and again a situation where you'd wish the scouting department had a bit more options prepared.
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I've given my thoughts on the situation many many times and it's always the same posters who bring up the same arguments.

Without going into too much detail, the Glazers made £120m available for transfers last summer, which was widely reported and that changed near the end of the window for obvious reasons. If the owners had made the £200m + available in May, then we could've better judged how the transfer window was going to be navigated. But they only made £120m available and that only changed in the last few weeks of the window. And that puts the selling club in a strong position and places the buying club in a weak position. That's on the owners.

Also we fired both the heads of scouting near the end of the last season. So it was easy to see why the window was dominated by players Erik ten Hag wanted and not players who Marcel Bout and Jim Lawlor wanted. We have a new team in place to head the recruitment department, and the two scouts who now control recruitment at the club are a Argentine by the name of Jose Mayorga and Simon Wells. But you have people who confuse the role of the heads of recruitment with the director of football. People then believe that the director of football comes in to identify the players when in reality that isn't accurate.

My question is simple, what do people want the DoF to do? Because his role isn't one where he should be scouting because there's a department at the club dedicated to recruitment, like at every other club.
 
First 20-30 minutes is a pretty good base for how I hope we play for the majority of edge next season. Bournemouth weren't great, but we did pretty well pinning them back. Ten Hag also said it was one of the highest levels the team reached all season and how he wants us to play.

Just missed some more cutting edge and quality, and we would have been out of sight those first 30 minutes.
 
Wonder when we can talk about the one who shall not be named again. Was there a supposed timeframe on the club's due diligence or is it a keep it away from the team until the season is over type thing?
 
RedorDead21 said:
Ok but won’t we want to be all 4 competitions next season also so the instilling of methods really just has to happen in that environment. We were counter attacking under SAF but we could keep possession really well. It’s his first season, I’m happy like I said and I want in better players to execute his game plans for sure. Can we bring in 3/4 top players to change our ball keeping ability and drill them. Then those players are new and need another year to bed in so it’s never a perfect coaching environment…I look forward to seeing it happen mind.
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Next season there will be no World Cup and (hopefully) no match postponements due to a death in the royal family. It’s not the number of matches by itself but the frequency of having to play a midweek fixture that was unprecedented.
 
Bastian said:
Wonder when we can talk about the one who shall not be named again. Was there a supposed timeframe on the club's due diligence or is it a keep it away from the team until the season is over type thing?
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Guessing it's all silence until the season is over.

I would be very surprised if he plays for us again.
 
kouroux said:
I would think the answer to your last paragraph is "yes".
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Why would the answer to the question of if other strikers were affordable be yes? What is there to suggest to you that the Glazers in the midst of a club ownership sale process, with the club owing over 200m in transfer fees still, that they would have sanctioned more spending? There was never any money to spend in January.
 
The shit show he walked into this season was ridiculous. Then having to deal with Ronaldo. Wins a trophy, with potential of another. CL more or less secured. No striker and 3 signings that never played in the PL before. Think he has done great. Does anyone around here actually think he would've signed Weghorst or Sabitzer if he had the funds to sign players that he wanted long term? Not a chance. He is building something for sure. Results lately have clouded the progress he has made. He's definitely the right manager at the right time for us. Just need the rats to fcuk off asap so that we can move forward. They are the only thing holding us back.
 
He has done very well securing top 4. Hopefully the club will go on and buy some needed players in the window. If we can strengthen with 2/3 first team players we will look a lot better
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Better than the player he replaced today. Better than the same player when he replaced him in our last match. Which is my point. If anything, ETH made an error in not starting him ahead of Martial today.

None of which makes WW a particularly good striker, obviously. Just better than some of our other options.
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Not really, if Ten Hag want’s a goal contribution from his striker (which I think is safe to assume) then statistically he’s more likely to get that from Martial. Weghorst has 0 goals and 1 assist in the league compared to Martial who has 5 and 2. Martial’s hardly a goal threat these days but there’s no point pretending Weghorst is a better option.
 
Anyone rating Wout over Martial needs to give their head a wobble.

Weghorst is an awful footballer and missed a chance today that most of this forum would finish.

I would like to see Martial with Garnacho on the pitch because Sancho is just so, so useless at pretty much anything.

I find the obsession with work rate for a striker absolutely ridiculous. Rashford barely does any tracking back but it never gets mentioned. Yet the sequoia tree with an awful heading ability is rated because he runs a lot (because he cannot do anything else). The guy better be gone in the summer.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Based on what? Picking him ahead of players who are performing worse than him?
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They're not performing worse than him. Even the horrible, lazy and broken Martial has been more productive than him.

ETH is a fan of Wout, it is so clear to see, he shifted better players than him at other positions just to play him even if it meant as a 10. No one does that for a player he doesn't appreciate particularly well. ETH has been juggling between what was good for the team and playing Wout as much as possible.

bosnian_red said:
Why would the answer to the question of if other strikers were affordable be yes? What is there to suggest to you that the Glazers in the midst of a club ownership sale process, with the club owing over 200m in transfer fees still, that they would have sanctioned more spending? There was never any money to spend in January.
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There are thousands of players all over the world, ETH went for Wout because he obviously knew him not because he was the only available/affordable player in the entire globe.

OL29 said:
Not really, if Ten Hag want’s a goal contribution from his striker (which I think is safe to assume) then statistically he’s more likely to get that from Martial. Weghorst has 0 goals and 1 assist in the league compared to Martial who has 5 and 2. Martial’s hardly a goal threat these days but there’s no point pretending Weghorst is a better option.
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Besides the scoring difference and as bas as Martial's been, there is still a huge difference in terms of linking with others and shielding the ball. The chance creation reduces and/or disappears when Wout plays
 
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I'm a bit concerned about our style of play under ETH

He's had a decent season but the vast majority of games haven't impressed entertainment wise we seem to struggle more often than not.

I want to see some better football next season there's much worse teams than us in the PL playing a better brand of football.
 
Rightnr said:
Yep, apart from our front 6, everyone was amazing. That only leaves 60% of the outfield team to sort out.
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Casemiero was very good and Eriksen did well. Martial’s link up play was also decent. We just got top 4 having bagged a trophy and all you lot can to is whine like babies. How dare we not go from our worst PL tally to his amazing in one year.
 
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TGod said:
Well, you are not the manager or part of the coaching set-up, and shouldn't tell him who to play and who not to.

Well assuming your opinion matters, what would you have done differently?
Play McNeil? Hugill? :rolleyes:.
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Welcome to an internet forum, Einstein... Maybe you'll understand its principle one day :wenger:
Just as you assume my opinion doesn't matter, yours is the same to me. I will say whatever the feck I want as long as I don't break the forum's guidelines
 
kouroux said:
They're not performing worse than him. Even the horrible, lazy and broken Martial has been more productive than him.

ETH is a fan of Wout, it is so clear to see, he shifted better players than him at other positions just to play him even if it meant as a 10. No one does that for a player he doesn't appreciate particularly well. ETH has been juggling between what was good for the team and playing Wout as much as possible.



There are thousands of players all over the world, ETH went for Wout because he obviously knew him not because he was the only available/affordable player in the entire globe.



Besides the scoring difference and as bas as Martial's been, there is still a huge difference in terms of linking with others and shielding the ball. The chance creation reduces and/or disappears when Wout plays
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Jesus wept.

ETH didn’t move for Wout, and isn’t playing Wout, purely for the benefit of and to help out “his mate”.

You’re trying to make some grand conspiracy that he’s putting the happiness and appearances of Wout as his top priority.

In January there wasn’t many available options for a short term loan #9 that offered something different. And from those limited options of course ETH will go for a player he is familiar with, is different to what we had available, and is a player ETH believes qualities would help us. He didn’t just go “let us giz me mate Wout a call, he could do with a spell at United!”

And same with the minutes - ETH both sees the benefit of rotation (especially when Martial is made of fecking styrofoam), as well as a benefit to the overall contributions Wout offers.

I’m not a big fan of Wout and I think while he has offered us benefits in games here and there, he’s largely been a failure. There probably were better available options in January on a similar loan deal too. Sometimes it is really disappointing to see him get brought on, or in the starting line up. So I’m no big Wout defender. But your hot take is mental.

ETH isn’t sabotaging the season because he puts Weghorst above the club.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Today we saw “the worst striker in the PL” have more of an impact on the game in just over 30 minutes than our first choice number 9 had in just over an hour. And that was on one of the rare occasions said number 9 wasn’t injured/unavailable. Which says it all really.

At the end of the day, every teams needs strikers in their squad. Which is why every team has strikers in their squad. The concept of a false 9 doesn’t change that. After getting rid of Ronaldo and with huge question marks over Martial, nobody in their right mind could surely argue that we didn’t need another striker in January.

So the only unknown is whether better strikers than Wout were a) available and b) affordable. I don’t think anyone knows the answers to these questions. And if not, then this shouldn’t be a stick used to beat ETH.
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I agree. I’d have kept Martial on at the time but yesterday Wout improved us. He actually got a shot on target and played some nice passes to help us on the counter. Martial is usually gassed after 60 minutes these days.

As long as we don’t sign him permanently I’m fine with the Wout situations. I know it seems to enrage some who just use it to pile on senselessly.
 
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