Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[kouroux]

I actually thought he played the role quite well when we went on a run (including va Barcelona) so it’s not quite lunacy but I agree that it’s not producing and should stop. I just don’t believe it’s multiple subs like we read here every week, which seems to have become an easy go to for some fans - his subs cost us the game etc I mean why analyse what goes wrong when you can just pin it on subs or mentality or bottle?

But managers make decisions we disagree with all the time. I remember a point when I would be up in arms every week with Sir Alex starting Young or something. I think I’ve mellowed in this regard. It’s much more important that the overarching direction and general management be right than a few minute details.

Now if we sign him permanently that might tip me over the edge

Barca was a long while ago now (decent performance but nothing groundbreaking) bro and since then he's had too many stinkers. Of all the bad decisions a manager has ever made at Utd, I don't see one topping playing Wout as 10 and as a result shifting Bruno on the wing.

 

[Borys]

What was the Wout sub supposed to achieve ?

Sub tired Antony? I don't think anyone believes ETH wanted Wout in this game, but we were struggling to hold the ball so I'm not that surprised he Erik went for WW instead of other "options".

 

[Shakesy]

Maybe him and the squad should run 14km. Backwards?

 

[kouroux]

Sub tired Antony? I don't think anyone believes ETH wanted Wout in this game, but we were struggling to hold the ball so I'm not that surprised he Erik went for WW instead of other "options".

Of course he wanted him otherwise he had Sabitzer on the bench to play at that position. Subbing Antony isn't the issue btw, its giving valuable minutes the worst player in the squad

 

[Borys]

Of course he wanted him otherwise he had Sabitzer on the bench to play at that position. Subbing Antony isn't the issue btw, its giving valuable minutes the worst player in the squad

Sabitzer plays almost in the same position as Wout. I don't see how this changes anything. I certainly don't think it matters as in the end other all players apart from few defenders were shit. Still probably easier to have WW as focal point than Sabitzer running channels when we don't even have the ball.

 

[Galactic]

This is mental.
After every good result, this thread gets like 2 pages of comments.
After something doesn't go our way, the place becomes shitshow.

get a fecking grip.

What did you expect?

 

[kouroux]

Sabitzer plays almost in the same position as Wout. I don't see how this changes anything. I certainly don't think it matters as in the end other all players apart from few defenders were shit. Still probably easier to have WW as focal point than Sabitzer running channels when we don't even have the ball.

In theory yes but WW is a horrible focal point anyway. Any tactical attempt is negated by the fact he has no business playing at this level.
Anyway, you sort of described why ETH wanted Wout tbh.

 

[Tony247]

He really needs to train the team to park the bus when needed. Very useful tool when limited option on bench and players are tired towards the end of the season.

Score and shut the match.

 

[Dans]

The problem he has is needing to keep players fresh, but at the same time putting some in the shop window. I think the likes of Fred, Martial, Maguire and possibly Sancho are being played in the hope they have a good game and provoke some interest. As soon as Martial came on last night though, probably after sulking about not being in the starting lineup, he again did nothing up front. Fred went and did what he did as usual - the team was disrupted, the flow gone and Spurs, rightly, when 2 down came out fighting in that second half. Our CL place is 90% assured I'd say, so ETH can afford to take these risks. The squad clearly isn't where he'd like it to be though and I think when it is, we'll see in game management that looks like it makes sense (where it doesn't often now because of aforementioned reasons).

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Barca was a long while ago now (decent performance but nothing groundbreaking) bro and since then he's had too many stinkers. Of all the bad decisions a manager has ever made at Utd, I don't see one topping playing Wout as 10 and as a result shifting Bruno on the wing.

I don’t think it’s as alarming / dumbfounding as you make it out to be. Our performance was wank as soon as they pressed us anyway, it’s not as though this decision suddenly killed is and managers make calls that actually do that. This was more on of the many changes attempted at fixing a leak that wouldn’t stop.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

He needs to sort out this complacent steak in the side.

Second half we came out for a cake sale, not a football match

 

[Borys]

In theory yes but WW is a horrible focal point anyway. Any tactical attempt is negated by the fact he has no business playing at this level.
Anyway, you sort of described why ETH wanted Wout tbh.

I am not going to defend WW, he certainly "has no business playing at this level", but looking at the alternatives I don't think ETH made any clear errors. The players (especially midfield) let us down. Shocking game by Casemiro and Fred, tbh if someone shown me a clip of their performances I would be happy with a point not watching the game.

 

[Varun1]

Genuine question: Why does DDG keep playing long balls? Am not posting in the DDG thread because this must be coming from EtH, as he was playing short before we fell apart.

I don't see how that achieves anything positive for us since most of them end up with an opposition player.

 

[VP89]

Genuine question: Why does DDG keep playing long balls? Am not posting in the DDG thread because this must be coming from EtH, as he was playing short before we fell apart.

I don't see how that achieves anything positive for us since most of them end up with an opposition player.

Since the Sevilla game he was likely told not to.

 

[AndySmith1990]

You'd think by now he would've realised Weghorst isn't fit for purpose

Also our habit of only showing up for one half of a match is worrying

 

[Swedish_Plumber]

It is crazy how people have so much doubt after a poor result. He’s done wonders for us and that’s pretty fecking clear.

What we’re seeing is a combination of fatigue and poor squad depth.

 

[The-Mezzala]

He needs to be backed in the summer. So much deadwood in this sqaud. Big reason we are throwing games away. When we look to the bench he has nothing.

 

[Jev]

Lots of excuses being made for him.

The so-called dross we have on the pitch and bench are players he either bought or chose to depend on.

Wout was his signing. Stop pretending there weren't any other strikers we could have signed. He's also decided to ignore countless atrocious performances and kept playing him. Again, stop pretending there are no other ways for us to line up – we saw that yesterday with Rashford leading and Sancho on the left.

Martial was his chosen striker. By the time the summer transfer window ended, he had soured on Ronaldo and was set and seemingly content with Martial being his main striker.

Fred was his no. 1 midfield sub from the bench for the first half of the season, clearly the one he trusted the most to come in and do a job.

Malacia was his signing.

Sabitzer was his signing.

He consciously didn't want to replace DDG and by all accounts will extend his contract and stick with him.

There's also a bit of a debate about how good a signing Casemiro was. Look, he's a great player but it's hardly a stroke of genius to just pick the best defensive midfielder there is and pay an amount no other club would have paid.

Erik has done a decent enough job overall this season. No more, no less. Making it out as some kind of miracle that we are fourth is absolutely ridiculous.

We have a very, very strong defence where the only position you could realistically improve upon is right-back, and the two we have are not even that bad. We have a very good central midfield with two unimprovable players in Casemiro and Bruno. Again only one player to improve upon, the perfectly decent Eriksen. Then we have the most hyped English player this season in Rashford and an 80 million right-winger that was handpicked by ten Hag – very much debatable whether this was a clever way to use that kind of money.

Yes, we badly need a striker. But that's really the only position in which we are very weak. This team absolutely SHOULD finish in the top-4.

We will scrape top four and top it off with a minor cup trophy after a very lenient draw. So that's fine. That's okay. But there's nothing wrong with people wanting to see clearer signs of actual progress in our general play. A better ability to pass the ball, to control games, to carve out openings. Making us look less fragile, more competitive in big games. We're only seeing that in very small patches, and that is the sign of true progress – like with Arteta, his Arsenal had some very sketchy results at first, but they still showed clear signs of an identity and positive style of play emerging.

As it is, we're performing about as well as I would have expected Ole to do if he was given a Casemiro, a 50 million defender and an 80 million winger on top of the squad he had. It's okay, for now, for a first season. But a miracle-worker? Get out. He must show more next season.

 

[dove]

So much overreaction here as usual. Before the start of the season most of us agreed that TOP 4 + a trophy would be a good season for us. We are well on track for that (with maybe even 2 trophies if we get some luck, you never know).

 

[Acquire Me]

Football is football. I am happy every day knowing Erik ten Hag is our manager.

 

[dove]

Wout was his signing. Stop pretending there weren't any other strikers we could have signed.

Yea, I am sure there were plenty of great options for a January loan.

Martial was his chosen striker. By the time the summer transfer window ended, he had soured on Ronaldo and was set and seemingly content on Martial being his main striker.

Content doesn't mean you are happy with it. I am sure he is content with plenty of other positions right now simply because we cannot upgrade all of them at once especially as we are skint now.

Fred was his no. 1 sub from the bench for the first half of the season, clearly the one he trusted the most to come in and do a job.

You would think we have prime Scholes just sitting on the bench but ETH prefers to bring on Fred. All our options on the bench are crap.

Malacia was his signing.

He is and he has been very hit and miss so far.

Sabitzer was his signing.

He did alright, I don't think we can expect much from loan signing.

He consciously didn't want to replace DDG and by all accounts will defend his contract and stick with him.

Again, we cannot upgrade entire starting XI.

There's also a bit of a debate about how good a signing Casemiro was. Look, he's a great player but it's hardly a stroke of genius to just pick the best defensive midfielder there is and pay an amount no other club would have paid.

Best players are playing games. Shocker.

This team absolutely SHOULD finish in the top-4. We will scrape top four and top it off with a minor cup trophy so that's fine. That's okay.

And we will. What do you mean by scrape? We are quite comfortably 4th now, hardly any danger of slipping to 5th. Having 6-7 more points would literally put us in a title challenge. Is that what you expect?

 

[Kostov]

I remember how much Mourinho was scrutinized on here for his approach to big games, and his results. I feel Erik has had an easy ride in comparison. Bad game management once again imo.

 

[Dans]

Genuine question: Why does DDG keep playing long balls? Am not posting in the DDG thread because this must be coming from EtH, as he was playing short before we fell apart.

I don't see how that achieves anything positive for us since most of them end up with an opposition player.

Because that way we have a little more time to get set up to defend his give away.

 

[gajender]

I remember how much Mourinho was scrutinized on here for his approach to big games, and his results. I feel Erik has had an easy ride in comparison. Bad game management once again imo.

Because his approach was negative and Cowardly , while Ten Hag hasn't covered himself in Glory with results and performances away from home you can't accuse him of Cowardice .

And as far as scrutiny is concerned Mourinho got similar treatment to Ten Hag in his first season things only started getting real ugly in his Second season .

 

[Di Maria's angel]

I remember how much Mourinho was scrutinized on here for his approach to big games, and his results. I feel Erik has had an easy ride in comparison. Bad game management once again imo.

That's probably because we parked the bus in every game. Don't get mr wrong, Jose was good in big games but it wasn't where we wanted to be. I enjoy the fact that we're attempting to take the game to our opposition but I don't expect us to be flawless.

 

[AneRu]

I love ETH and think he will do great things here but he is a tad naive which will cost us this season. With the WC and the resultant fixture congestion we should have picked our battles wisely, we didn't need to all out on the Europa and Carabao Cup with our shallow and limited squad. The drop off we are seeing now is a result of fatigue.

The trophies we invested in do nothing to improve a club's progression, consistent CL qualifications do. That's what we should have focused on, now our key players are burnt out, others out injured and teams that had nothing to do with the top four race now smell blood. This team doesn't have any fight left in them and we need a big push to get the necessary results in because Villa, West Ham and Brighton will be very difficult in normal circumstances but almost impossible with a tired and broken squad.

 

[Judas]

I remember how much Mourinho was scrutinized on here for his approach to big games, and his results. I feel Erik has had an easy ride in comparison. Bad game management once again imo.

He deserves to get an easier ride. Jose's approach in every way was miserable and tumescent.

 

[redshaw]

The second half performances are quite worrying. Usually after halftime a manager can motivate, set out tactics and correct things yet we often come out worse and concede. We then have a flurry of subs and squander games that should be easy to see out.

 

[Red4Ever]

Lots of excuses being made for him.

The so-called dross we have on the pitch and bench are players he either bought or chose to depend on.

Wout was his signing. Stop pretending there weren't any other strikers we could have signed. He's also decided to ignore countless atrocious performances and kept playing him. Again, stop pretending there are no other ways for us to line up – we saw that yesterday with Rashford leading and Sancho on the left.

Martial was his chosen striker. By the time the summer transfer window ended, he had soured on Ronaldo and was set and seemingly content with Martial being his main striker.

Fred was his no. 1 midfield sub from the bench for the first half of the season, clearly the one he trusted the most to come in and do a job.

Malacia was his signing.

Sabitzer was his signing.

He consciously didn't want to replace DDG and by all accounts will extend his contract and stick with him.

There's also a bit of a debate about how good a signing Casemiro was. Look, he's a great player but it's hardly a stroke of genius to just pick the best defensive midfielder there is and pay an amount no other club would have paid.

Erik has done a decent enough job overall this season. No more, no less. Making it out as some kind of miracle that we are fourth is absolutely ridiculous.

We have a very, very strong defence where the only position you could realistically improve upon is right-back, and the two we have are not even that bad. We have a very good central midfield with two unimprovable players in Casemiro and Bruno. Again only one player to improve upon, the perfectly decent Eriksen. Then we have the most hyped English player this season in Rashford and an 80 million right-winger that was handpicked by ten Hag – very much debatable whether this was a clever way to use that kind of money.

Yes, we badly need a striker. But that's really the only position in which we are very weak. This team absolutely SHOULD finish in the top-4.

We will scrape top four and top it off with a minor cup trophy after a very lenient draw. So that's fine. That's okay. But there's nothing wrong with people wanting to see clearer signs of actual progress in our general play. A better ability to pass the ball, to control games, to carve out openings. Making us look less fragile, more competitive in big games. We're only seeing that in very small patches, and that is the sign of true progress – like with Arteta, his Arsenal had some very sketchy results at first, but they still showed clear signs of an identity and positive style of play emerging.

As it is, we're performing about as well as I would have expected Ole to do if he was given a Casemiro, a 50 million defender and an 80 million winger on top of the squad he had. It's okay, for now, for a first season. But a miracle-worker? Get out. He must show more next season.

Solskjaer didn’t win anything & left us in the mud losing nearly every week at the end

*with some of these very same players

ETH is cleaning up the mess after Ronaldo & he doesn’t have benefit of greenwood & an at the time decent cavani upfront
He now has time to fix that

united are making clear progression and will finish ahead of Arsenal & probably everyone else bar maybe city next year

 

[Nou_Camp99]

We'd be sitting 5th now, albeit with a game in hand, if Liverpool hadn't unexpectedly fallen off a cliff this season. Everyone had them in the top two this season as well.

We have definitely seen improvements under ETH but they haven't been as gargantuan as some on here would have you believe. To not beat a single top half team away all season is very very poor. His subs are also baffling at times. Taking Bruno out of the middle last night to accommodate a championship level forward in Weggy just isn't good management at all.

He has definitely earned a second season. I don't think anyone wants him sacked but my word we should be better than this. We make hard work of every single game we play in and that's largely because Rashford is the only player we have who we can rely on for G/A.

Just look at the goals for column compared to the top 3 teams. We are miles away.

 

[Varun1]

Since the Sevilla game he was likely told not to.

Because that way we have a little more time to get set up to defend his give away.

He was playing short balls for a period of time during the game. In fact, i've seen this scenario before, start off with short balls then go long as we fall apart.

And everytime the long balls end up with the opposition. Such a pointless move.

 

[NewUser777]

60m+10m adds up.

Still ridiculous sum of money for a 31 years old player.

It is. But we desperately needed quality in that position. From a table perspective, I would say it was worth it.

 

[kouroux]

I am not going to defend WW, he certainly "has no business playing at this level", but looking at the alternatives I don't think ETH made any clear errors. The players (especially midfield) let us down. Shocking game by Casemiro and Fred, tbh if someone shown me a clip of their performances I would be happy with a point not watching the game.

I agree with your general sentiment, only that
subbing in WW was the clear error. I have nothing "negative" to say else about ETH for last night

 

[kouroux]

I don’t think it’s as alarming / dumbfounding as you make it out to be. Our performance was wank as soon as they pressed us anyway, it’s not as though this decision suddenly killed is and managers make calls that actually do that. This was more on of the many changes attempted at fixing a leak that wouldn’t stop.

For me it was when the subs were made and that view was even stronger after the subs which made the team even worse overall

 

[Fabio Rochemback]

I am not going to defend WW, he certainly "has no business playing at this level", but looking at the alternatives I don't think ETH made any clear errors

Elanga is shit and Pellistri is an unproven winger but by this point either of them should be playing over WW

 

[pascell]

We finished 6th last year. Of course we are miles off. Even the sides who are there took a long time of strong work to get there. To think we can flick a switch and do it is crazy. Arsenal took 4 years to come 2nd.

Yes we finished 6th because he regularly played a midfield of Fred and McTominay, neither good enough to even be squad players at Unitsd if we're going to challenge.

We become challengers by making the squad better then we don't have to rely on bang average players like Maguire and Fred.

 

[kouroux]

The context of the Carabao Cup win has to be considered (basically easy games until the final in which we weren't great).

 

[Judas]

We'd be sitting 5th now, albeit with a game in hand, if Liverpool hadn't unexpectedly fallen off a cliff this season. Everyone had them in the top two this season as well.

We have definitely seen improvements under ETH but they haven't been as gargantuan as some on here would have you believe. To not beat a single top half team away all season is very very poor. His subs are also baffling at times. Taking Bruno out of the middle last night to accommodate a championship level forward in Weggy just isn't good management at all.

He has definitely earned a second season. I don't think anyone wants him sacked but my word we should be better than this. We make hard work of every single game we play in and that's largely because Rashford is the only player we have who we can rely on for G/A.

Just look at the goals for column compared to the top 3 teams. We are miles away.

We'd be 5th if Wolves had unexpectedly had a stormer of a season. Makes you think.

 

[Coeuz]

In Ole's last season (20-21), a few months before he got the sack, we had 63 points after 31 games. With a goal difference of +27
Now we have 60 points, GD +9.
At the end of the season we had 74 points. Let's see if ETH can beat that before we give judgment. After all, that is commonly understood to be the worst period since SAF?

 

[dove]

We'd be 5th if Wolves had unexpectedly had a stormer of a season. Makes you think.

6th if Potter fulfilled his prophecies and became a new God of football. Wait actually maybe 7th, Spurs would definitely be above us having a great manager Conte.