I know but lets be honest, we are far off what City are at the moment. They are in CL semi final easily beating teams in the CL group stages against whom we struggled to beat.
Sometimes, it looks better than it is.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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I know but lets be honest, we are far off what City are at the moment. They are in CL semi final easily beating teams in the CL group stages against whom we struggled to beat.
Sometimes, it looks better than it is.
Results and points aren’t some bluffing stat that hides the truth though. They simply aren’t miles ahead of us, add a 20 goal striker up front of us and we would be right up there fighting for the title. Not saying we’d win it but we aren’t that far behind in real terms.
what did you expect from the manager in his first season? More than this?
to be fair....our fixture list and injuries have had a drastic impact on this as well. where as city haven't dealt with long term injuries plus playing thur/sun for almost 3 straight months
Correct, but also you are bluffing yourself by removing the first 2 games. a PL season doesnt state that you can take 2 results out a season either.
A Manutd v City final - United are 3/1 and City 4/11, which shows the gulf in class.
Top 4 and potentially a trophy. That was what I wanted with a definitive play style.
Has Ten Hag delivered on that - yes he is on course to.
Does that mean we are close to City? No. It just means we are improving from where we were last season.
Do I think we can improve next season? Yes.
But even that isn't true.
The 4 matches you mentioned were Brentford, Villa, City, Liverpool. But we also got battered by 3-0 Newcastle, which is worse than the 3-1 by Villa in terms of GD. So it's actually 5 out of 15. And all those 5 were away against the other top 10 teams.
There's 9 away games against top 10 teams. We have played 7 of them and got battered in 5, while losing 6/7. We only got points at Fulham.
By marking 1/3 of our away league games as an aberration you're basically cherry picking positives. It's not a once or twice event that skews things, it's happened in 1 every 3 of away games. It's statistically very significant. You're basically saying "if we forget about 1/3rd of our away games where we got battered, we've actually done quite well". Well, no shit.
So you are really happy then presumably?
I get that Ten Hag has done well, he is doing better than I expected of him this season.
That does not mean we have caught up with City though, for people to say we are not that far off from City though, I dont think is correct.
They will play and dominate most games, even with injuries. We are nowhere nearing getting 15 wins in a row, we have a team that gets complacent and for some reason downs tools after 6/7 good wins, we need to change that going into next season.
I am reasonably happy with our position however, the results and performances against Liverpool, City, Sevilla, Newcastle are a reason I am not really happy. I can understand a one off performance like that in a season but recurring performances like those do concern me.
Ten Hag in a season has built up enough credit to get away with it this season, along with fixture congestion, having players like Maguire, Weghorst to call upon on.
Do those performances not concern you?
Or we have a team that still includes a number of players that Ten Hag wouldn't play if he had decent alternatives, a team that is still learning his methods, a team decimated by injuries and fatigued after huge numbers of games. And they have still only amassed 5 fewer points since the first two games of the season than City. I guess it depends on whether you want to try and accentuate the positives or drum up negativity?
No, not in the least. I look at the big picture, and that is overwhelmingly positive.
look at the amount of time and money spent by Pep since he's been in charge of City....he's had a massive head start
i think we will get there but yes it'll take time and no we aren't at the level of city yet. we are at least one striker and one quality CM away from being to challenge them on a consistent basis not just the one off
Yes, go have a look at how much money United have spent too during that time?
My point is not if we will get there or not, I am talking about today. We are quite far of city today.
Ten Hag will improve us, I agree that he has the capacity to in the coming seasons.
not sure i agree on quite far simply as they have a striker who's banged in 40+ goals....that is the real difference
I get that but its because City create more chances, regardless of who we have as ST, I don't think the performances would have changed v Brentford, Liverpool, Newcastle or Sevilla.
We miss a ST but we miss a CM who can dictate play as well.
We are miles behind City, in terms of squad, playing style, performances etc. They have 5 starting caliber CBs, we have 2. They have 2 strikers who would score 20+, we don't have any. They have 4 CMs (5 if you include Foden) who are amazing.
And on and on. We need lot more personnel change before we can get close to them.
If I am not mistaken they haven't conceded a goal in FA Cup. They have scored an average 4 goals a game for last 12 games (includes Leipzig, Newcastle, Liverpool, Bayern). They are at an insane level.
Erik has been a victim of his own success - because we've done so much better than expected this season, some folks have lost perspective as to where we were when he took over, and the size of the job he's inherited.
He's trying to get us playing proactive football, but this is a team that's played deep sitting counter football for years, and has a mixture of players who need to be taught how to play his way, and players who are incapable of playing his way at a high level. We were always going to be on the end of a few drubbings until we get more used to the system (and get more players in who can play that way).
He's trying to get us playing proactive football, but this is a team that's played deep sitting counter football for years, and has a mixture of players who need to be taught how to play his way, and players who are incapable of playing his way at a high level. We were always going to be on the end of a few drubbings until we get more used to the system (and get more players in who can play that way).
Rusholme knows all and sees all
We aren’t miles, it’s 11 points. Saying it isn’t so, they just have a different style to getting those 11 points.
Also it’s a bit hard to say it’s style or depth when they’re playing through a striker scoring 148 goals this season! That’s the big difference, they have more comfortable wins than us because of that instead of the one goal wins we regularly grind out. Their points for a win isn’t worth any more than ours.
Give us a goal a game striker through the middle and let’s just say we wouldn’t have less points than we do now.
Again, if I told you post Brentford that City will only be 5 points up on us for the rest of the season (up to now) you’d have called me insane and told me about quality and squad depth. 3 of those 5 points were won against us as well.
agreed which was part of my original comment that we have to bring in a top class striker and a top class CM to start bridging that gap....problem is City will do the same as they have the money and they have the CL plus Pep and trophies
City also have players that are not easy to replace. Gundogan contract is up and he is a key part to their team and squad. He comes in times of the season they need him most and plays 6,8,10 comfortably. Bernado is another one who wanted to leave, they are 2 very good utility players, losing both will be a big blow to City imo regardless who they sign.
It's not easy replacing players that can play RW and CM as comfortably, pressing monsters and players who are press resistant.
We have also seen that Pep needs time to adapt players to play his style.
Here is me hoping that we can catch them sooner than later.
those are two big losses and i'm sure they won't have an issue spending 100m on a couple replacements even though Phillips is sitting on the bench doing fuk all but collecting a fat salary
it'll be a big summer for Erik sorting out the who needs to go and who can i get in ...certainly will weaken their midfield and DeBruyne isn't getting any younger
This is why we need our ownership sorted out ASAP. We ideally want Ten Hag to get 2/3 first team signings before pre season to avoid the same start to the season as this.
Especially in key positions.
yeah CF and CM 100 percent need a new high quality starter brought in, then at least 3-4 new squad players to help the quality depth.
Battered by Liverpool, Newcastle, City, Villa, Sevilla and Brentford.
Our away form has not been good
I don't think we have any idea about the style he wants to play because we have such glaring deficiencies in even the first XI. A coach needs, imo, about 8 signings before they cna claim to have their own 'squad', given at least 2 won't work out as expected.
Realistically, ETH has only gotten Malacia, Casemiro and Antony, and then had punts on freebies of Eriksen, Weghorst and Sabitzer. By this time next season (assuming we can spend money in the summer) we'll have a much better view of his actual style. If anyhting I've been most impressed with his pragmatism given the various issues across the season.
Realistically, ETH has only gotten Malacia, Casemiro and Antony, and then had punts on freebies of Eriksen, Weghorst and Sabitzer. By this time next season (assuming we can spend money in the summer) we'll have a much better view of his actual style. If anyhting I've been most impressed with his pragmatism given the various issues across the season.
Martinez, Casemiro, Antony, and Eriksen. Four very capable first XI, which is almost half of the team. I don't think you can say that "this is not his team".
Although if it's up to me, i'd only retain Bruno, Rashford, Shaw, and Varane (plus those 4) and sold everyone else.
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4/11 is 36% of the starting XI or 16% of the 25-man squad. I don't think there is ever a point where squads are finished or it is the manager's team but clearly, it's not his final vision for how we want to play. It took Guardiola a few summers before he got Man City rolling. It took Klopp a couple of years too.
This reminds me of the learning curve we've seen foreign managers go through in England. A dash of pragmatism in away games would maybe have been better for us this season. Play the extra defensive midfielder from the start. Nullify the early energy and then if needed open the game up later.
So have I.
It started with Jose fans. Ole fans turned out to be just the same, bizarrely.
Let’s hope Ole gets a job and does well in it, somewhere where we can all get behind him with no conflict of interest.
He also brought in Malacia and Sabitzer for squad.
Agreed that the team hasn't played to his vision. That game against Forest is how I think his ultimate vision. So much movement, creativity, and game domination.
I think the (extensive) comparisons with City are pretty pointless at this stage. They could put out two complete teams should they wish. They have players (including a £100m player) who seem okay with sitting on the bench. Their financial skulduggery is obvious with brown envelope payments galore, and they have a good manager who has had the time to build a squad and style of play.
In terms of progress under ETH, we already have more points than last season, have a 26 point swing over Liverpool, and a 36 point swing over Chelsea. Add to that we have won a cup and are in another cup final and are in a good position for a top-four finish, I'd say that the progress has been quite remarkable.
Am I satisfied? Am I hell. Some of our results and performances have been shameful, but I am optimistic for further progress next season.
In terms of progress under ETH, we already have more points than last season, have a 26 point swing over Liverpool, and a 36 point swing over Chelsea. Add to that we have won a cup and are in another cup final and are in a good position for a top-four finish, I'd say that the progress has been quite remarkable.
Am I satisfied? Am I hell. Some of our results and performances have been shameful, but I am optimistic for further progress next season.
When your GK leads the league in clean sheets despite having conceded a high number of goals, that’s the definition of an outlier
I wish him well but why would we all want to 'get behind him' at another club anymore than we all got behind Steve Bruce at Birmingham or Robbo at Middlesbrough? Only club I'm interested is United.
Let's hope so. I admire his bravery but we don't have the players yet to beat a really good press away from home.
I would like to bang Margot Robbie and my ideal scenario is if Emily Ratajkowski joins us for a three-way.
“With no conflict of interest”. So not a British club. Nor anyone we are likely to meet in the Champions League.
Bruce is an interesting one. I was delighted he was doing well at Birmingham, but his sideways jumps from club to club made me lose interest pretty quickly.
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