I think it's totally understandable to address the credibility of somebody's criticism if it appears to come from a place of bias. I don't think anyone has 'gone for' anyone for merely criticising ETH.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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Yep, that 2nd place trophy made everything OK! And it really showed his critics up. Unfortunately next season he proved them right again.
We get it, you didn't like being wrong. You don't need to talk about him every day to get that chip off your shoulder.
It's hilarious you're calling people hypocrites when you've gone from demanding a manager sacked everyday to now policing the slightest criticism.
Must be Dutch.
Interesting that there seems to be a divide on whether EtH should be playing Fred or Eriksen. I thought today was a game made for Fred but we usually our best football with Eriksen in the team (we didn't today though). Both are very good squad players but it's obvious that we want another CM to play alongside Casemiro and Bruno.
He’s doing a great job, I’m really looking to next season when hopefully he’ll further improve the quality of the squad.
He does make some weird subs.at times though. Why bring Malacia on for AWB and why bring Anthony off? Tactically, it didn’t make sense and seemed to reinvigorate Brighton in attack towards the end.
But top 4, two cup finals with at least 1 trophy in his first season is fantastic.
He does make some weird subs.at times though. Why bring Malacia on for AWB and why bring Anthony off? Tactically, it didn’t make sense and seemed to reinvigorate Brighton in attack towards the end.
But top 4, two cup finals with at least 1 trophy in his first season is fantastic.
This guy should be knighted after pulling this cesspool of shite into the light again. Anyone remember how we were last season.?
There might be some divide on here but I think it's a crystal clear decision in ETH's head. He's heavily favoured Eriksen all season and I don't see that changing, so it's a slightly hollow debate.
Glad we won that.
We'll have to do better in possession or the final 3rd against City to win.
This summer is pivotal for us going forward. Need the right profile of players in to take the next step.
We'll have to do better in possession or the final 3rd against City to win.
This summer is pivotal for us going forward. Need the right profile of players in to take the next step.
I thought man-marking their players and being tight on their DMs and CMs were spot on. If Antony was a bit more decisive, we could have been a couple of goals up in the first half. For that, I thought Fred would have been better for the first half and I thought Rashford was weak on his task unlike Antony on the right. I suspected that we would have sat back and played counter if we had scored some goals in the first half. That's when Erikson's long-range passing would be perfect.
It would be interesting to see how he would play against the city in the final.
Oh, one more thing I notice is that our players seem to hold the ball longer than they should while all the passing options seem to be on in the final 3rd or around the box. You don't see that with the likes of City players, except for Grealish, of course. By doing that, they get tackled, and a foul in useless areas instead of quick passing which could have been a lot more dangerous. It seems very easy for the other teams to break up our play easily and our set pieces are generally terrible.
It would be interesting to see how he would play against the city in the final.
Oh, one more thing I notice is that our players seem to hold the ball longer than they should while all the passing options seem to be on in the final 3rd or around the box. You don't see that with the likes of City players, except for Grealish, of course. By doing that, they get tackled, and a foul in useless areas instead of quick passing which could have been a lot more dangerous. It seems very easy for the other teams to break up our play easily and our set pieces are generally terrible.
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Interesting stat in terms of what we did first half versus second.
We definitely did better the 2nd half, but that PPDA stat and build-up completion stat being inferior to Brighton's is something to improve for next season. We can't play like this next season and expect to challenge.
Some more stats:
Brighton 0 : 0 Man Utd
Pass directness: 33.5 - 32.8
10+ pass sequences: 21 - 4
Goalkick length: 25.7 - 57.7
Goalkick progression.: 56.3 - 22.5
We need to replace De Gea and get better at recycling the ball.
Please please please win the final ten hag. Would be brilliant to win 2 trophies in one season and match Liverpool from last season.
They won't even be able to play it down.
Would be a great season if we win the fa cup, win the Carling cup, finish top 4 and in the process keep Liverpool out of the top 4.
As he said, we will need all players in top form to get a win. While we did win at ot, it was a bit of luck with the Bruno goal.
Hopefully city will be entangled with arsenal to the last day of the season for the premier league.
Glad that he ETH also said that he understands the fans sentiments in terms of stopping city from doing the treble and it's in our hands to stop them.
They won't even be able to play it down.
Would be a great season if we win the fa cup, win the Carling cup, finish top 4 and in the process keep Liverpool out of the top 4. As he said, we will need all players in top form to get a win. While we did win at ot, it was a bit of luck with the Bruno goal.
Hopefully city will be entangled with arsenal to the last day of the season for the premier league.
Glad that he ETH also said that he understands the fans sentiments in terms of stopping city from doing the treble and it's in our hands to stop them.
Absolute mind game from ETH to Pep. Pep still gotta get past Madrid over 2 legs and still needs to beat Arsenal.
Not sure if this by design or not since so many do it. But, Sancho is probably the worst at this. There always seems to runner's around him and he'll take an extra touch or dribble the extra meter and then that run has gone.
Fatigue. This isn’t football manager the players are made of flesh and blood. What’s it going to take for fans to acknowledge the insane amount of games these players have been asked to play with 2-3 days of recovery over the span of 4-5 months.
You should have said Fifa as your squad would be fecked in FM with that kind of schedule too, probably even more so than in real life as you can't nearly handle it as well as a professional team of highly paid nutritionists and physiologists could.
Imo it's logical to sub AWB off. We still needed a goal and Dalot was simply better offensively. Mitoma was also pretty tired and less dangerous by then.
Anthony imo might be because he's been running non stop up and down the whole match. Only Rashford was somewhat spared of defensive duties yesterday that's why ETH left him on the entire 120'.
You can have an army of highly paid whatever you want but there’s a limit to what you can ask these players to do. To not take the match load into consideration when critiquing the manager is absurd.
I thought all his subs did well. Fred was excellent probably should have strayed tbf. Sancho was good. Wout has no quality but added a bit of fire to the team and took his pen well. Sabitzer did alright. And we didn’t miss Bruno on the pens either.
Fans will outrage over anything though. I do too in the match day thread because that’s what I see it as being - being hyper about everything. But not beyond that .
Fans will outrage over anything though. I do too in the match day thread because that’s what I see it as being - being hyper about everything. But not beyond that .
Tell me about it mate!Fecking hell, after watching them against Newcastle today I'll be joining you myself if we lose to them!
Two things here. Firstly, the 2nd place did not prove anybody wrong. We got 2nd place a couple of years previously under Mourinho too, what's your point? Once the initial euphoria of that initial 10 games and Paris wore off it was clear to anybody that didn't have blinkers on that he was not up to the job. The fact that you are gleefully bragging about how that 2nd place proved people wrong really shows where your loyalties lie - Ole first United second. That is what people have called out - not the criticism of Ten Hag.
Secondly - criticism when it's deserved is absolutely justifiable, I'm absolutely not policing the slightest criticism of ETH, I'm just pointing out when it comes from people who not only defended Ole at every turn, but actively dismissed any kind of criticism at the time, shutting people down and putting blind loyalty to the man (in your case due to nationality) over loyalty to the club.
I think there have been some obvious (to me) signs of improvement under ETH compared to the last couple of seasons, but I think it's way too soon to get carried away.
In the domestic cups we've had unbelievably good fortune with the draws.
Villa (H) - under Gerrard
Burnley (H)
Charlton (H)
N.Forest (2 legged)
Newcastle (Final)
Everton (H)
Reading (H)
West Ham (H)
Fulham (H) - 2 reds
Brighton (Neutral) - on pens
Apart from Forest away (which was 2-legged tie anyway) we haven't played a single domestic cup knock-out fixture away from OT. That's very fortunate.
We've been very good at home generally, and Old Trafford has become a bit of fortress again. This is evidenced across all comps. But on the other hand, we do travel quite poorly. We got battered away in many games against good opposition (Barca excluded) and we didn't seem to have any ideas or a plan B to stop the bleed. Our league position has also benefitted from both Liverpool and Chelsea being unexpectedly abysmal.
This isn't just to shit on him. I like ETH and I think he needs another transfer market with a clearout and 3-4 good arrivals before he can be fully show what he's capable. And I'll take top 4 and a domestic cup quite happily for his first season. It's basically mostly to guard against complacency or manager worship when there's still a lot of improvement that needs to be made. We're far from there yet and we've had too many false dawns to hail what we see as a new dawn, yet.
In the domestic cups we've had unbelievably good fortune with the draws.
Villa (H) - under Gerrard
Burnley (H)
Charlton (H)
N.Forest (2 legged)
Newcastle (Final)
Everton (H)
Reading (H)
West Ham (H)
Fulham (H) - 2 reds
Brighton (Neutral) - on pens
Apart from Forest away (which was 2-legged tie anyway) we haven't played a single domestic cup knock-out fixture away from OT. That's very fortunate.
We've been very good at home generally, and Old Trafford has become a bit of fortress again. This is evidenced across all comps. But on the other hand, we do travel quite poorly. We got battered away in many games against good opposition (Barca excluded) and we didn't seem to have any ideas or a plan B to stop the bleed. Our league position has also benefitted from both Liverpool and Chelsea being unexpectedly abysmal.
This isn't just to shit on him. I like ETH and I think he needs another transfer market with a clearout and 3-4 good arrivals before he can be fully show what he's capable. And I'll take top 4 and a domestic cup quite happily for his first season. It's basically mostly to guard against complacency or manager worship when there's still a lot of improvement that needs to be made. We're far from there yet and we've had too many false dawns to hail what we see as a new dawn, yet.
This.
I'm going to discount Brentford as that was very early and we made a number of transfers after. I think the obvious "batterings" have been City, Liverpool, Newcastle and Sevilla. Numbers wise, we've conceded 29 away goals in the PL (15 games) and 20 of those in just 4 games! Outside of those mentioned, I don't think we've been that bad away from home. We beat Betis, Sociedad and drew to Barcelona in Europe. And we've won 7 of the other 11 away games in the league - our other 2 defeats came against Villa and Arsenal.
In reality, the two massive anomalies this season are the games against Liverpool and City which skew our numbers quite negatively. Had we lost them with some respect then maybe we'd be considered a slightly better team away from home.
Villa was under Emery right after they beat us in the league. You still have to win the games anyway and deal with the congestion. Not like City, Arsenal or Newcastle were knocked out by world beaters in their cups.
Also while yes our away games have been shit, we still have roughly the same away record as Newcastle and Brighton, behind only Arsenal and City. Playing away is just tough. What's happened for us is freak losses due to some mentality issue, you can lose but it's felt far worse because when we lose, we get battered (like Newcastle did away to Villa a week ago).
Also I don't know if it was just me, but fully called Chelsea being the team to implode this year.
Anyway for me - getting top 4 comfortably while winning a cup and reaching the fa cup final and going far in the Europa League is a phenomenal result. Can't underestimate how hard it is to play mid week and weekend games every single week the entire season, more games than anyone else, and still achieve objectives. Arsenal tossed away every cup competition much earlier just to compete for the title and they'll still miss out. It has an impact on consistency, performances, fitness... And we're still deservedly and comfortably in top 4 (and all this with whatever you want to call our striker situation, but it's among the very worst striker situations in the league). So all things considered, ten hag has done a fantastic job, and the individual random shit defeats don't even dent it for me. His 70% win rate give him the best win rate of any United manager ever, which isn't exactly something to downplay either.
I take your point, it's not just been the defeats but the manner of defeats as well, that create perceptions.
That said. The table doesn't lie.
Looking at the home table, we're only 3rd behind City and Arsenal. The two outstanding teams of the season, who are also 1st and 2nd in points away from home.
However we're 5th away form home. We've taken less points on the road than Brighton and almost the same as Villa and Fulham. And in fact the only team from the top 10 that we beat away form home, is Fulham. We've yet to play Brighton and Spurs. We've lost to City, Arsenal, Newcastle, Villa, Liverpool and Brentford. Quite badly most of them too.
I think you still need help getting over him after 18 months. Ramblings like above are concerning. Maybe start a thread where you can share stories with like minded posters and 'un-mask' other 'Norwegians' like myself.
Anyway, last of derailing this thread to talk about Solskjaer (from me at least). Good work from Ten Hag yesterday.
I love Solksjaer! Just not as Man Utd manager
But agreed, no need to continue this in this thread .
Two trophies and top 4 is going to exceed my expectations.
I take your point, it's not just been the defeats but the manner of defeats as well, that create perceptions.
That said. The table doesn't lie.
Looking at the home table, we're only 3rd behind City and Arsenal. The two outstanding teams of the season, who are also 1st and 2nd in points away from home.
However we're 5th away form home. We've taken less points on the road than Brighton and almost the same as Villa and Fulham. And in fact the only team from the top 10 that we beat away form home, is Fulham. We've yet to play Brighton and Spurs. We've lost to City, Arsenal, Newcastle, Villa, Liverpool and Brentford. Quite badly most of them too.
We're notoriously fragile away from home and have been seen SAF retired. It'll take a lot of work from ETH to get us where we need to be. That said, I think we're on track to acquire the most home points in a season since the great man retired. We shouldn't, in any way, under-estimate just how massive it is to have teams fearful of playing at OT again. 6 goals conceded since the opening day.
Those defensive stats are incredible. 8 goals conceded at home all season - the best in the league and near enough half as many as City and far less than that compared to Arsenal.
29 goals conceded away - only 5 teams have a worse record and we've conceded more than the likes of Everton, Wolves, West Ham, and Southampton.
Those away stats are skewed my 3 games, with 17 out of 29 in those 3 games so as aside from those games 12 in 26 is good away form, we obviously need to cut out those outlier games where we conceded 4+ for sure, I am more worried about attacking than I am the defending we just don't score enough goals
Was just in the process of posting much the same thing!
It's better than conceding 2 or 3 in every game maybe, but it's happened too often to be considered an anomaly at this stage.
Even if we say the Anfield game was an outlier, and something like 3-1 would have been a fairer reflection, there have been games like Newcastle away and Arsenal away where they could easily have put 6 past us and we couldn't have complained.
Agreed although it's fair to mention we've played about 70% of the season without a decent striker, that should improve next year.
The fact that GA at home is still at single digit is really good stat.
I jinx it now, isn't it?
I jinx it now, isn't it?
I think there are a few on here who are struggling to get over Ole. Apparently, if you say anything against Ten Hag's performances = You want him out.
Even though, I havent seen any posts on here calling for his head, these fans want to put a narrative that if you criticise performance = wanting the manager out.
We’re massive underdogs in the fa cup final but if we’re at our best then we’re capable of winning. Hopefully we get some players back and fresh. No one can blame ETH if we get battered in the final. This squad has over achieved this season I think. 2 finals and a potential top 4 finish. Just need to get top 4 as quickly as possible and then focus on the summer with some quality additions.
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