Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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united_99 said:
Why not? McT and Sancho could have started instead of Bruno and Rashford. I mean when else if not after a 4-1 first leg win against Betis?
We do look toothless without Bruno and Rashford so I get it that ETH wants to use them all the time, but these two players definitely need more rest than they’ve had so far.
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I think he just has to go for it now, at this stage of the season. He has no alternative really - thanks to Martial and Eriksen being fecked. On paper yes, he could have rested them yesterday, but it would have signalled to Betis that we thought we had the job done and weren't taking them seriously. Then imagine if we'd conceded in the first 20 mins or so - it would have been game on. I don't see that he can really afford to risk chucking either the Europa or Prem at this stage. I expect a full strength team against Fulham too as the players will get a bit of a break due to the internationals.

On the subject of internationals, given how Southgate has used Rashford in the last couple of tournaments I hope he picks up a 'niggle' in the Fulham game and gets a couple of weeks rest.
 
He has a three year contract, does he not? This is silly, even though he is doing fabulous.
 
Red in STL said:
Why is it silly?

It's a way of rewarding him for a job well done
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We have done that before with players, overpaying them while they don‘t even make the squad now. It is wrong. Most of all it is premature.

He‘s been hired to do job and he is doing it. You can reward him with a bonus.
 
If he’s getting a new contract, it’s richly deserved. Unlike some fans I don’t see ETH as the finished article but I do see him as currently a top 5 coach/Manager in Europe right now;

Strengths - Discipline, Technical and Tactical understanding of the game is second to none, In game substitutes and changes, willingness to learn another language and style and adapt. Wants to play attacking wining football.


Weaknesses - Over focused with Dutch or players he’s worked with in the past, Doesn’t rotate the squad enough.


To be clear I Love this guy and he’s my favourite manager right behind Sir Alex and his weaknesses, I know he will adapt at united because he’s super smart and ruthless. Plus the rotation problem may be down to the fact he doesn’t trust our squad because in his first few interviews, he’s on record for saying we need two international players for every position. If Qatar buy the club and back him with £250-300m in the summer, United will challenge for PL properly next year.
 
NLunited said:
We have done that before with players, overpaying them while they don‘t even make the squad now. It is wrong. Most of all it is premature.

He‘s been hired to do job and he is doing it. You can reward him with a bonus.
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An extended contract is his bonus, it will also be a disincentive for him to be poached by someone else offering higher wages
 
it will also send a message to players he is looking to bring in that there will be stability at the top so players know EtH will be the gaffer during their contract period
 
NLunited said:
He has a three year contract, does he not? This is silly, even though he is doing fabulous.
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Because he is potentially one of the best managers in the world.


Woziak said:
If he’s getting a new contract, it’s richly deserved. Unlike some fans I don’t see ETH as the finished article but I do see him as currently a top 5 coach/Manager in Europe right now;

Strengths - Discipline, Technical and Tactical understanding of the game is second to none, In game substitutes and changes, willingness to learn another language and style and adapt. Wants to play attacking wining football.


Weaknesses - Over focused with Dutch or players he’s worked with in the past, Doesn’t rotate the squad enough.
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The Dutch player thing is overblown. We bought Malacia for a tiny fee and Weghorst because he was the best striker available for basically nothing. Frenkie De Jong is a world class player and a regular starter at one of the biggest clubs in the world, going for him was fine and he moved on in time to get Casemiro. The only other Dutch player in the squad is Van de Beek and he wasn't bought by ETH.

Really the only question mark on ETH's transfer record is Antony and the problem may end up being more that they paid about £20 million more than he's worth, although the jury's still out on that one.
 
Woziak said:
If he’s getting a new contract, it’s richly deserved. Unlike some fans I don’t see ETH as the finished article but I do see him as currently a top 5 coach/Manager in Europe right now;

Strengths - Discipline, Technical and Tactical understanding of the game is second to none, In game substitutes and changes, willingness to learn another language and style and adapt. Wants to play attacking wining football.


Weaknesses - Over focused with Dutch or players he’s worked with in the past, Doesn’t rotate the squad enough.


To be clear I Love this guy and he’s my favourite manager right behind Sir Alex and his weaknesses, I know he will adapt at united because he’s super smart and ruthless. Plus the rotation problem may be down to the fact he doesn’t trust our squad because in his first few interviews, he’s on record for saying we need two international players for every position. If Qatar buy the club and back him with £250-300m in the summer, United will challenge for PL properly next year.
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How do you know? We're top 3 (despite being fecked over by refs on a regular basis), have won the Carabao, and are still in the FA Cup and EL. Seems to me he's rotated the squad just fine so far. If we collapse at the tail end of the season then maybe that criticism will be fair but seems odd now.
 
Rolaholic said:

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Have always felt like SJR missed the trick with this one. He had the chance to top nine two foundation by creating his own sixty nine foundation. The effect should have been massive and he will get all the attention.
 
Woziak said:
If he’s getting a new contract, it’s richly deserved. Unlike some fans I don’t see ETH as the finished article but I do see him as currently a top 5 coach/Manager in Europe right now;

Strengths - Discipline, Technical and Tactical understanding of the game is second to none, In game substitutes and changes, willingness to learn another language and style and adapt. Wants to play attacking wining football.


Weaknesses - Over focused with Dutch or players he’s worked with in the past, Doesn’t rotate the squad enough.


To be clear I Love this guy and he’s my favourite manager right behind Sir Alex and his weaknesses, I know he will adapt at united because he’s super smart and ruthless. Plus the rotation problem may be down to the fact he doesn’t trust our squad because in his first few interviews, he’s on record for saying we need two international players for every position. If Qatar buy the club and back him with £250-300m in the summer, United will challenge for PL properly next year.
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Next year we'll know how good he is cos he's learned about his players and the PL, so he'll know exactly what the squad needs.

He really only had a few weeks with the squad last summer before he made his purchases and he had no money in the January window.

I'd imagine we'll buy a striker, midfielder, right back and GK.

Lots of players will be sold off or at least we'll try to but it's difficult with their wages.

I hope he can hold on to coaching team but I suspect it'll be difficult since they're all former managers.
 
I am stunned there is even a mention of him not being here next season. As I have said before, he will be one of the elite coaches and will win it all. If he doesn't get given the time and/or resources at Manchester United he will go to another big club and win the lot. So, if United have this elite-level coach who will become a winner, then why not keep hold of him and give him what he needs to succeed?
 
marktan said:
One major criticism - in a game where we're leading 4-1, he plays both Rashford and Bruno who've had no rest, for 70 minutes. It was a major weakness of Oles too, not rotating. Klopp and Conte have that weakness too.

SAF was a master at it, and Pep is excellent at rotating also with weekend and midweek games often having different attackers (with the caveat of a large attacking squad). But when you have an opportunity to rotate like tonight.. you have to take it. It will catch up to the team just like it did with Ole.
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I think you're being a little naive here - just looking at the minutes count. Betis are a pretty decent team and if we'd started with Rashford and Bruno and they'd scored early then it would have been a pretty stressful and mentally demanding game. Starting them both made us far more of a threat on the counter and allowed us to be more professional in getting the job done.

We started 3 players in Pellestri, McGuire and Malacia and brought on a few more throughout the game. I don't recall Fergie frequently rotating more than that (in a game that progresses us towards an important trophy).
 
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Red in STL said:
Why is it silly?

It's a way of rewarding him for a job well done
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It's still too reactionary United are still within the season. Worst case scenario and the team finish outside top 4 with a domestic cup win does that count as a successful season. I believe ETH is a world class manager but the club are jumping the gun yet again.
 
Vapor trail said:
It's still too reactionary United are still within the season. Worst case scenario and the team finish outside top 4 with a domestic cup win does that count as a successful season. I believe ETH is a world class manager but the club are jumping the gun yet again.
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Yes it does count as a successful season and would have even with out the cup, United actually look and play like a team now, that is a massive improvement on recent years, there's still a way to go but the path forward is clear.

ETH will be looked at by any top European team as a potential manager for their club, tying him down for another couple of years makes sense
 
Good news if true. The more power to him the better.

But it should happen at the end od the season.
 
Next season he has to get us scoring more goals. At the moment it feels like if Rashford doesn’t score we are screwed.

A lot of this could be down to Weghorst limiting our play so hopefully a top striker or two in the summer will fix this.
 
Vapor trail said:
It's still too reactionary United are still within the season. Worst case scenario and the team finish outside top 4 with a domestic cup win does that count as a successful season. I believe ETH is a world class manager but the club are jumping the gun yet again.
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There are two contradictory statements in this sentence.
 
Garethw said:
Next season he has to get us scoring more goals. At the moment it feels like if Rashford doesn’t score we are screwed.

A lot of this could be down to Weghorst limiting our play so hopefully a top striker or two in the summer will fix this.
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We don't have a proper striker and haven't been able to play a settled midfield for a long time. If we didn't create chances then I'd be concerned, but we look dangerous every game, at least in spells.

The goals will come with time and with a proper ST to put them away.
 
Garethw said:
Too many matches and not enough squad depth. I can see things falling apart fast. I just hope we stick with ETH if we don’t get CL football.

It was plain to see where our deficiencies were in January and the manager was not backed.

Rashford is our only reliable goalscorer. If he doesn’t score then we are in trouble.

It’s not lack of faith, it’s being realistic. The squad looks physically fecked.
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Well, I could understand it if it was any other post-Ferguson manager but I believe in ETH to manage the squad and guide us through. We've bounced back well since Liverpool with what surely would've been 4 straight wins had it not been for a dodgy ref vs Southampton.

Yes, atm Rashford is carrying us a bit but he wasn't pulling up any trees before the WC and we were doing alright. We definitely need reinforcements but not a lot we can do about it now. As for January, we did some shrewd if not exciting business. Not like we were going to be able to get a top class striker in then.
 
cpresc said:
I think you're being a little naive here - just looking at the minutes count. Betis are a pretty decent team and if we'd started with Rashford and Bruno and they'd scored early then it would have been a pretty stressful and mentally demanding game. Starting them both made us far more of a threat on the counter and allowed us to be more professional in getting the job done.

We started 3 players in Pellestri, McGuire and Malacia and brought on a few more throughout the game. I don't recall Fergie frequently rotating more than that (in a game that progresses us towards an important trophy).
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I don't disagree with you, it's a good strategy for this game specifically. It's bad though in the long run. ETH will have to hope that Rashford and Bruno in particular don't burn out before the end of the season, they've had next to no rest.

For me? I'd have started them on the bench, and if we conceded then at 4-2 bring them on. Still a margin of safety, but also likely that we either don't concede or even score.

SAF rotated all the time. It's why you had some weird lineups and players like O'Shea, Gibson, Cleverly playing so many games. Though you're probably right that the most important attackers probably didn't get rotated as much, I don't recall Ronaldo sitting out much at all.
 
HookedOnAPhelan said:
How do you know? We're top 3 (despite being fecked over by refs on a regular basis), have won the Carabao, and are still in the FA Cup and EL. Seems to me he's rotated the squad just fine so far. If we collapse at the tail end of the season then maybe that criticism will be fair but seems odd now.
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It’s not a criticism it’s based on friends who are Ajax fans who rave over ETH but say is only weakness is squad rotation, I happen to think at a United he will rotate more when he has his squad not inherited players from other regimes.
 
Woziak said:
It’s not a criticism it’s based on friends who are Ajax fans who rave over ETH but say is only weakness is squad rotation, I happen to think at a United he will rotate more when he has his squad not inherited players from other regimes.
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Based on what I see so far this season he seems to be the type of manager that wants an optimal squad (not necessarily the best squad) even against smaller teams in lesser competitions. That's why when the gap between his first and second option is so big, he'd rather play the first option from the start. I don't know how it was at AJAX, maybe they had the same problem given their resources. That's why the club need to make sure to add depth in the next transfer window, not just adding bodies.
 
We're still in all the competitions due to mostly playing the best players at his disposal. To try and win all competitions you either play your best players available or have a large squad of players when rotation takes place there is not much drop in quality. Very likely EtH believes he hasn't got that depth of quality to make changes and still be competitive. Obviously, injuries and suspensions not really helping his plans.
 
bosskeano said:
can rotate the squad when you have a full squad of players
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He'll rotate more next year when he's signed a few more players and the younger players are further along in their development.

Garnacho doesn't start cos he's poor defensively.

He obviously doesn't trust Maguire and Lindelof.
 
RedOrange said:
The Dutch player thing is overblown. We bought Malacia for a tiny fee and Weghorst because he was the best striker available for basically nothing. Frenkie De Jong is a world class player and a regular starter at one of the biggest clubs in the world, going for him was fine and he moved on in time to get Casemiro. The only other Dutch player in the squad is Van de Beek and he wasn't bought by ETH.

Really the only question mark on ETH's transfer record is Antony and the problem may end up being more that they paid about £20 million more than he's worth, although the jury's still out on that one.
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Exactly - I completely agree. Let's give him the benefit of the doubt over Anthony atm. I actually don't mind the fact that in his initial window he largely went for players that he knew their character and could trust - it was exactly what we needed, and that new culture needed to be instilled ASAP. In a way I'd have been more concerned if he'd got carried away with suddenly having tens of millions to spend and went after galactico types without the certainty of knowing how they would play together and their character (like some of our previous managers would have done). It gives me confidence that if new owners come in and give him a massive transfer budget he will be looking for the right profile of player for the team and club in general rather than signing superstars and then trying to work out how they will play together.
 
ffs...wish he could pull rashford from international duty so he gets a two week break from training and playing....same with Bruno


these guys deserve a break given all the matches they've played plus as mentioned a mid season world cup
 
tenpoless said:
Based on what I see so far this season he seems to be the type of manager that wants an optimal squad (not necessarily the best squad) even against smaller teams in lesser competitions. That's why when the gap between his first and second option is so big, he'd rather play the first option from the start. I don't know how it was at AJAX, maybe they had the same problem given their resources. That's why the club need to make sure to add depth in the next transfer window, not just adding bodies.
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Exactly that he’s got maybe 13/14 players he trusts and rotates we need to improve that to 20 players he trusts with 9 named subs now and 5 which can be used this is a significant change to how you deploy a modern wining side, freshen the squad up and keep 20 young men always not knowing who will start and who will be benched.
 
We’ve won but I feel he’s got a big test coming in the next few weeks after the international break to get these lot going again.
We have undoubtedly lost a step since winning the league cup. He needs to fire something up this team because performance have dropped significantly bar that second half against Betis.

Casemiro and Eriksen are just too big a miss right now but neither are available for our next three games so we need to work out what we’re doing in midfield because it just looks so bad without them and it shouldn’t.

The Weghorst thing is a little weird. Our options aren’t great but we do still have options and it’s a little baffling to me that a player with 2 goal involvements in about 15 games gets as much game time as he does. It’s become a little predictable our attack.
 
Not the first time, patience for his players is rewarded. Sancho could be easily subbed by Anto, instead something greater happened.
 
Ludens the Red said:
We’ve won but I feel he’s got a big test coming in the next few weeks after the international break to get these lot going again.
We have undoubtedly lost a step since winning the league cup. He needs to fire something up this team because performance have dropped significantly bar that second half against Betis.

Casemiro and Eriksen are just too big a miss right now but neither are available for our next three games so we need to work out what we’re doing in midfield because it just looks so bad without them and it shouldn’t.

The Weghorst thing is a little weird. Our options aren’t great but we do still have options and it’s a little baffling to me that a player with 2 goal involvements in about 15 games gets as much game time as he does. It’s become a little predictable our attack.
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Could not agree more. I don't think he has been as bad as others have said but surely he should have been subbed off at HT today? I mean we have to play 3 midfielders to get control in the middle. That has to be priority. I am very surprised we had Sabitzer and Bruno as our midfield while WW was playing as no.10....what do I know but just feels we can do better
 
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