Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) look forward to a new life under Ruben Amorim. What system will we be playing? What players will impress? and how will it all go? We also say goodbye to Ruud Van Nistelrooy and review United's 3-0 win at home against Leicester City.
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It was those two goals that went in just after half time that did it. We were in the match at half time - we weren't playing our best but it was competitive. At 3-0 the emotion came into it in all the worst ways and all of the players lost their minds.
The thing that was more surprising for me was that it happened when we had players like Martinez and Casemiro on the pitch. I thought those were the types of characters who simply wouldn't allow that type of collapse to happen.
Begining to question just how fit players like Shaw and Varane were, especially having late fitness tests. They looked a bit below themselves yesterday (Case included) and a few percent at this level makes a massive difference.
I don't think we're a million miles off, imagine Osimhen or Kane in this team - we'd be right in the title race.
Add a top RB and a more aggressive GK and I think we're right up with anyone.
Koers is gonna need a psychologist of his own after our lads are done with him.
So personally, I respect Ten Hag in a way for basically saying feck it at 3-0 and basically refusing to accept that we should call it a day.
I think that's too simplistic an explanation to be honest. You could just feel the confidence drain from the team at a certain point - especially those who had been there last season. 4-0 and 5-0 defeats would've been really awful for the players who were involved in them last season and I'm pretty sure that would've been in the back of their minds.
feck knows how we managed to get worse than that though. I would've hoped that a new manager and a few good additions around them would've made us more robust even in adversity. We never used to dick Liverpool like that even when we were at our very best and when they were a poor team. I honestly never thought it was possible to experience a worse set of results against Liverpool than last season but the humiliation has somehow gone one step further. They're not even a good team this season
When you look at the number of points required to win the league we are a long way off.
On top of positions you mention I think we need a starter in midfield and 2-4 better squad players plus improvement from a number of players within the squad. It’s going to take time which was always the case given the state we were in.
Often the simplest explanation is the most likelyI think that's too simplistic an explanation to be honest. You could just feel the confidence drain from the team at a certain point - especially those who had been there last season. 4-0 and 5-0 defeats would've been really awful for the players who were involved in them last season and I'm pretty sure that would've been in the back of their minds.
feck knows how we managed to get worse than that though. I would've hoped that a new manager and a few good additions around them would've made us more robust even in adversity. We never used to dick Liverpool like that even when we were at our very best when they were a poor team. I honestly never thought it was possible to experience a worse set of results against Liverpool than last season but the humiliation has somehow gone one step further. They're not even a good team this season
Let's see where we finish. I think we'll be close and you won't be able to convince me if we're within 5-6 points that having an elite striker wouldn't have converted a couple of draws and a loss into wins. Maybe we'll fall away now and it'll closer to 10 points but our form has been excellent and I'm praying we get back on the win wagon quickly.
We need more but this season that's been our big issue, goals.
Masterstroke by Ten Hag. Just as the Glazers were stalling on selling thinking Ten Hag will give them success with low investment like Fergies latter years, he purposely gets battered by the scousers. He doesnt want to have to loan average players like Weghorst every transfer window.
Clever Man.
Clever Man.
Shades of 6-1 City under Fergie. That was at home too. Normally under Fergie we bounced back with a vengance after bad results like this one. More recently, we just went into a tailspin and went on poor runs of form under both Ole and Ralf. Let's see which side we'll get.
Had time to chill on this now. Freak 2nd half, we can try to intellectualise it all we want but it was just shit and would have been expected to a degree as a part of the growing pains of the season we thought we were going to have, transitioning to a new style. It hurts because it stands in such stark contrast to the season we have enjoyed up to this point.
3 out of the next 4 games are at home so we can band together and make it right before the bigger trip to Newcastle and hopefully we can lay another demon to rest by beating Brentford at home.
3 out of the next 4 games are at home so we can band together and make it right before the bigger trip to Newcastle and hopefully we can lay another demon to rest by beating Brentford at home.
Feel very mixed, I think most reasonable fans would agree that EtH has done a good job so far. The majority of things have gone as likely to be planned, or even better. One result doesn't change that, and even if we did have a disappointing season, there is a vision, a mission and an idea to be relied on.
However, it saddens me how light some are taking this result. Obviously those screaming for him to be sacked are overreacting, however if he was sacked, it wouldn't be a disgrace either.
Losing 4-0 to Brentford, packing 6 vs City, losing 7-0 to Liverpool should be a sackable offense, and maybe would be close to that if we had ambitious owners and a board. Some are really normalising it, and it should never be at this club if we had ambitious owners and leadership. I rate EtH as high as any, but seeing how some of the fan base our downplaying this disgrace and rationalising it, really makes me see how far this club has fallen in terms of standards. The fact that EtH himself is so very keen on standards from my experience and knowledge is what makes me have trust in him.
Do this at clubs at Real Madrid, Bayern, Barcelona and you can't even talk "about bouncing back", because there will be no guarantee that you are there the next day.
However, it saddens me how light some are taking this result. Obviously those screaming for him to be sacked are overreacting, however if he was sacked, it wouldn't be a disgrace either.
Losing 4-0 to Brentford, packing 6 vs City, losing 7-0 to Liverpool should be a sackable offense, and maybe would be close to that if we had ambitious owners and a board. Some are really normalising it, and it should never be at this club if we had ambitious owners and leadership. I rate EtH as high as any, but seeing how some of the fan base our downplaying this disgrace and rationalising it, really makes me see how far this club has fallen in terms of standards. The fact that EtH himself is so very keen on standards from my experience and knowledge is what makes me have trust in him.
Do this at clubs at Real Madrid, Bayern, Barcelona and you can't even talk "about bouncing back", because there will be no guarantee that you are there the next day.
Exactly the reality is the team isn't as good as many are making out. The biggest issue with the narrative of United being back is it doesn't primarily come from the fans but the media. ETH has done a fantastic job realistically but the recruitment over the next 24 months will set in stone the level of achievement that can be acquired. The squad is not good enough. Fred starting games, misfiring inside forwards, Fernandes despite his numbers is consistently poor in possession.
This is a dumb post. Not even reactionary.
Liverpool got hammered 6-1 by Stoke for Stevie Me's last game with Klopp in charge.
It absolutely would be. And no it shouldn’t be.
The people who haven’t lost all semblance of reason and logic can also find this result unacceptable. But it’s moronic to start talking about sackable offences. We are not RM Barcelona or Bayern - not this past decade. Let’s not pretend we are to appear as though we as fans are the moral bearers of incredible standards.
Wow.
Hopefully this weekend was just the comedown from all the jubilation during the week.
Its CL at all costs for me. Even if it means we don't go full strength for Europa League or FA Cup.
We need to secure that CL spot as a priority. A trophy has already been won. CL will change our summer plans completely and allow us to attract/afford the calibre of players ETH desires.
How exactly is this sackable offense? Stop being emotional. Top 4 and a cup is still the target for this year.
If this continues, next year he should be sacked .
If this continues, next year he should be sacked .
What does unacceptable mean to you? Sounds like a buzzword without actual meaning.
So what are you exactly saying? As long as top 4 and a cup is reached, all is permissible? I don't want to go in the most stupid extremes you can think around that, but I could go into it.
It feels a bit different, this wasn't some throw away last game of the season with little to play for, we were clinging to a chance of still competing for the title and this was against our biggest rivals, I can't imagine Pep or klopp take a 7 - 0 loss against rivals, we have had some bad defeats under fergie but 7 - 0 is something else to me and this is not the first thrashing this season and in each of the occasions ten hag's naivety has played a big part in these thrashings
Fair play for this. You're likely more biased than most on here and yet you can appreciate this kind of mauling cannot just be written off as a bad day at the office.
Still believe this guy would get it right but next time, no more Bruno on the wing and Weghorst at 10 at Anfield.
Absolute nonsense. We are categorically not the same side after that Brentford loss. In every facet of the game we have improved. We have gone from one of the worst coached, worst pressing sides in the league to one of the best. We have gone from a purely counter attacking team to finally being able to comfortably beat the lower teams in the league with a consistent style of play. And we have done all of that with an average squad depth - playing the most packed fixture schedule across all of Europe.
We are not the same as Real Madrid and Bayern because we have not been one of the best teams in the world for a good decade at least, there is rightfully so a lot more leeway (right now). Yes I understand it is a terrible loss. But we have played 21 games since after the World Cup. If someone said to you in those 21 games we would largely play very good football, win a trophy 16 games, draw 3 and lose 2 to Arsenal and Liverpool you would have absolutely taken it. Then when you factor in a game every 3 days playing largely the same player it makes it more impressive.
Yes the loss to Liverpool is bad, but it happens sometimes, you have to accept that. Of course we have to improve a lot more but let's not lose our heads and forget the work Ten Hag has done.
Oh, I'm just as angry as I was yesterday even if I am trying not to be. I've only ever felt like this after the 2019 Wimbledon final.
You're totally right. We were lucky to get pkayers like Casemiro, Eriksen and Martinez in the summer with where we were at the time. We're obviously a huge draw for lots of players but CL is an absolute must for most top players.
Wasn't that under Rodgers?
You are arguing against yourself, I dont disagree with the majority of what you said. It is whether a matter of whether you think certain things are really unacceptable or not. And in all honesty, I don't think our football is that great, for a decent while. Improvements have been clear however, a lot of grinding of results which is to be expected with this crazy schedule.
Hm, for some reason I thought it was with him. I'm sure they had a few batterings although this one was a disaster of a different dimension
Still believe EtH will be successful here and it shows how low this team can go if he wasn't holding it down.
Except it does have meaning. A result like that will result in the players receiving an absolute roasting. Some could be dropped unless they bounce back or eventually sold. The manager isn’t going to watch them make mistake after mistake for 45 minutes straight without some action after. The fans are going to be disgusted.
But it does mean that a manager doing a good job should be replaced. That’s just daft.
Yes absolutely. If that’s the target for this season. I’d argue a cup wasn’t even expected given how shocking we were last season so we’ve over achieved relative to expectations. In fact I’m more likely to give importance to things like quality of football than a miserable 45 minutes out of a long season.
Unless in these fantasies of yours united are apparently murdering toddlers or promoting hate crimes.
No one is saying it's acceptable, just that it doesn't discredit what has happened so far. Ten Hag certainly seems to be reacting the correct way:
Saying "nonsense" doesn't actually add validity to what comes next in your post. Yes, because my post says that good teams were never hammered before the 7-0 this weekend. Freakish days
It's like the 3rd of 4th time Ten Hag's set-up sees United getting stuffed this season.Trying to act as if Ferguson didn't regularly take a more conservative approach in these games is incredibly wrong and revisionist.
It's dumb to sack managers on the back of 1 result because it is important to always look at the big picture. Which in this case is having a, what, 75% win rate as manager here? So yeah. It's easy to ignore the defeat when the rest of the season has been so good. Nothing about our targets this season is impacted by losing yesterday, whether it's 1-0 or 10-0. Not great to lose, even worse to get battered, but like... Our targets are the same. We are still on course to surpass our targets from the start of the season.
Any board that sacks a manager who surpasses all expectations but gets a random really shit result, is a very dumb and reactionary board.
So yes... If Ten Hag had all these results while also having a pretty shit season, then he'd likely get sacked. But when it's a one off, what use is reading into it too much?
Our setup didn’t see us get hammered. Individuals collapsing did. Otherwise we wouldn’t have ended the first half / 40 mins as the better team.Yes, because my post says that good teams were never hammered before the 7-0 this weekend. Freakish days
7-0
Trying to act as if Ferguson didn't regularly take a more conservative approach in these games is incredibly wrong and revisionist.
So unacceptable is to you for the players to have a possible roasting? I wouldn't have that as unacceptable at all. If so, we can have unacceptable every other month, without any significant change. To be trashed like this 3 times in just over half a year is way more serious to me than to others it seems, I don't doubt for a fact that EtH has tore into them, but to me, I wouldn't be apalled if more than that is expected.
Personally, I trust to a reasonable extent where EtH is taking this team. But just like with Ole, I wouldnt blindstare at achievements as top 3 or top 4. If we were to disgrace ourselves in the EL, FA Cup, and maybe a horrible run in the league where we go on to scrape 4, I'd expect the board to be very critical in whatever way that is. We have ran through managers the past few years, but really not because they werent protected enough, but rather because they were overprotected for too long.
exactly
Circus back in town
Everything you said seems so obvious to me. I don't get why fans are saying he should be under pressure.
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