Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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Red the Bear said:
He's a winner, he'll recover.

I can't stress how important it is to give him the utmost backing possible in the transfer market, much to do in potentially the most important transfer window in our recent history.
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This.
Under LvG I would be worried cause the trend was one bad defeat followed by several bad results.
Under Jose it would be "We need to bounce back" but the team would usually scrap a result or get a draw
Under Ole, well we all know what happened after the heavy defeats

This guy seems a winner though, raising standards and not accepting mediocre performance even when we win 2-0 or 3-0, so I have full faith in him.
 
eire-red said:
Got it wrong today unfortunately, from the start and with the subs. Moving Shaw to CB at 4-0 down was bizarre and I don't think I'll ever fathom it.

Needs to use this and get a response in the coming weeks.
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I think that was more protecting Martinez so that he wouldn't get sent off or have him concede more and affect his confidence.
For better or worse, Shaw has experience being involved in games where we ship a record amount of goals, so 1 more game won't affect him.
 
Ricardo de la Vega said:
We're brittle psychologically. It make you want to chuck them out and start again with guys untainted by this trait, but you can't get rid of Varane, Casemiro, Martinez etc for it.
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There’s a touch of Arsenal 2014-2017 about us. You had that core group of Arsenal players who would win an FA Cup the odd year but then get humiliated everytime they went away to City , Liverpool or Chelsea. I get those vibes at the minute from these lot. And you do wonder maybe it is engrained in the likes of De Gea, Dalot, Shaw, Fred, Bruno, Mctominay, Rashford who have been ever present for those bad defeats. We obviously can’t and shouldn’t get rid of all of them but this is clearly something in their make up as players.
 
That's a sack worthy performance in any normal season tbh.

But in his defence this isn't a normal season at all. We've played 21 games in 2 months because FIFA and Qatar are as bent as a nine bob note. We also won a trophy last week.

This can't be repeated though. Any United team can lose at City and Liverpool but we shouldn't be getting battered by them. He needs to realise this isn't the Dutch League. We can't go everywhere and play so openly.
 
Take it on the chin. First half was probably the best we've played at Anfield since the lvg win. To go from that to the showing in the second half is very weird, however in retrospect I'd wager a few things contributed to it:

- Everyone has been banging on about fatigue, that has to definitely play a part whether physically or mentally. We also have been expending a lot of energy to claw back recent games which is exhausting in itself
- We've seen with Brentford, City that our switch to trying to be more expansive in our play requires us to be as close to 100% in what we do, of else space gets left to be exploited
- Its anfield, it has swallowed up better teams than us
- We all know this team needs to be strengthend, as good as Dalot, De Gea, Wout etc have been we need more

It hurts to lose this way, but all we can do is learn from it as we've done with Brenford, City etc. Each time Ten Hag has rallied the team and we've improved. That is the quality that I value. We will probably have a couple more spankings away as Ten Hag tries to transition us from going to an Anfield or Etihad and being auper defensive like under Ole, Moyes, Jose and instead go to those places to fight them toe to toe.
 
Fun fact, Ajax lost 6-2 to Feyenoord five months into his first season (with Van Persie bagging two!)

Saw that the other day and thought what a shite result that must have been at the time. 7-0 makes it look a bit tame by comparison but must have caused a few ripples.
 
Andycoleno9 said:
Tbh i don't agree that we have small team. We don't have team like City or Madrid with 22 classy players but we do have 3 gk, 8 defenders, 6 midfielders and 7 attackers. We can talk about quality of course and quality of sub players (where some of them are not good enough for Man Utd) but squad depth is by the book. 2 players on every position.

Btw, can we put all content related to Morgan on black list :wenger: ?
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I said small squad not small team. We have a team which is good quality but completely fatigued. We have a poor depth of squad though, some of them shouldn’t be anywhere near this level. Probably why ten Haag kept referring to squad players when talking about transfers in the past
 
flameinthesun said:
Take it on the chin. First half was probably the best we've played at Anfield since the lvg win. To go from that to the showing in the second half is very weird, however in retrospect I'd wager a few things contributed to it:

- Everyone has been banging on about fatigue, that has to definitely play a part whether physically or mentally. We also have been expending a lot of energy to claw back recent games which is exhausting in itself
- We've seen with Brentford, City that our switch to trying to be more expansive in our play requires us to be as close to 100% in what we do, of else space gets left to be exploited
- Its anfield, it has swallowed up better teams than us
- We all know this team needs to be strengthend, as good as Dalot, De Gea, Wout etc have been we need more

It hurts to lose this way, but all we can do is learn from it as we've done with Brenford, City etc. Each time Ten Hag has rallied the team and we've improved. That is the quality that I value. We will probably have a couple more spankings away as Ten Hag tries to transition us from going to an Anfield or Etihad and being auper defensive like under Ole, Moyes, Jose and instead go to those places to fight them toe to toe.
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No point trying to be sensible in the caf.
 
flameinthesun said:
Take it on the chin. First half was probably the best we've played at Anfield since the lvg win. To go from that to the showing in the second half is very weird, however in retrospect I'd wager a few things contributed to it:

- Everyone has been banging on about fatigue, that has to definitely play a part whether physically or mentally. We also have been expending a lot of energy to claw back recent games which is exhausting in itself
- We've seen with Brentford, City that our switch to trying to be more expansive in our play requires us to be as close to 100% in what we do, of else space gets left to be exploited
- Its anfield, it has swallowed up better teams than us
- We all know this team needs to be strengthend, as good as Dalot, De Gea, Wout etc have been we need more

It hurts to lose this way, but all we can do is learn from it as we've done with Brenford, City etc. Each time Ten Hag has rallied the team and we've improved. That is the quality that I value. We will probably have a couple more spankings away as Ten Hag tries to transition us from going to an Anfield or Etihad and being auper defensive like under Ole, Moyes, Jose and instead go to those places to fight them toe to toe.
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Not true. LVG last win against Liverpool at Anfield was a borefest. In Mourinho first season, first half at Anfield was only behind Juanfield game. We pressed Klopp Liverpool off the park in that first half.

Simply Klopp exploited ETH's stubborn by starting Weghorst in midfield. His Liverpool was raring for the game of course. We had our chances in the first half, but even if we scored, the way we played, we're still open for Liverpool to punish us.
 
Ludens the Red said:
There’s a touch of Arsenal 2014-2017 about us. You had that core group of Arsenal players who would win an FA Cup the odd year but then get humiliated everytime they went away to City , Liverpool or Chelsea. I get those vibes at the minute from these lot. And you do wonder maybe it is engrained in the likes of De Gea, Dalot, Shaw, Fred, Bruno, Mctominay, Rashford who have been ever present for those bad defeats. We obviously can’t and shouldn’t get rid of all of them but this is clearly something in their make up as players.
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Agreed especially about those players you mentioned.
 
Real Name said:
Do managers get sacked after heavy defeats to a rival?
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If this was Potter at Chelsea right now, probably yes. The final humiliation in a disastrous season.

People in this thread and on this forum seem to think we've had an equally disastrous season, forgetting the progress we've made and the cup we won last week.
 
Salford_Red83 said:
If this was Potter at Chelsea right now, probably yes. The final humiliation in a disastrous season.

People in this thread and on this forum seem to think we've had an equally disastrous season, forgetting the progress we've made and the cup we won last week.
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That's my point yes.
Some posters are trying to prove we're not much better than under Ole, Mourinho..
 
bosskeano said:
it's a beating...against a team we all despise but whether it's 1-0 or 7-0, it is still only 3 points and nothing more than that
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It's a lot more than 3pts, football is more than simple points. It's about the possible effect of this result in future games, it's about pride and self esteem. There is something fundamentally wrong with losing 7-0 against your biggest rival.
 
flameinthesun said:
Take it on the chin. First half was probably the best we've played at Anfield since the lvg win. To go from that to the showing in the second half is very weird, however in retrospect I'd wager a few things contributed to it:

- Everyone has been banging on about fatigue, that has to definitely play a part whether physically or mentally. We also have been expending a lot of energy to claw back recent games which is exhausting in itself
- We've seen with Brentford, City that our switch to trying to be more expansive in our play requires us to be as close to 100% in what we do, of else space gets left to be exploited
- Its anfield, it has swallowed up better teams than us
- We all know this team needs to be strengthend, as good as Dalot, De Gea, Wout etc have been we need more

It hurts to lose this way, but all we can do is learn from it as we've done with Brenford, City etc. Each time Ten Hag has rallied the team and we've improved. That is the quality that I value. We will probably have a couple more spankings away as Ten Hag tries to transition us from going to an Anfield or Etihad and being auper defensive like under Ole, Moyes, Jose and instead go to those places to fight them toe to toe.
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I think ETH's mistake was to think we can play expansive football every game. Even when we were winning trebles under SAF Anfield was a game where we went first and foremost not to lose. We setup to beat them yesterday, which is a reasonable thing to do, but I think it was a lesson for ETH that any team in the PL can beat another on their day. We need to keep things tight before we try and take the game to them. Its not a league where clubs roll over for the best teams.
 
Ludens the Red said:
There’s a touch of Arsenal 2014-2017 about us. You had that core group of Arsenal players who would win an FA Cup the odd year but then get humiliated everytime they went away to City , Liverpool or Chelsea. I get those vibes at the minute from these lot. And you do wonder maybe it is engrained in the likes of De Gea, Dalot, Shaw, Fred, Bruno, Mctominay, Rashford who have been ever present for those bad defeats. We obviously can’t and shouldn’t get rid of all of them but this is clearly something in their make up as players.
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I can agree if you meant where our team is in the progress. I disagree if you meant it's about players' engrained weak mentality.

Wenger was too stubborn to spend and complete a team on high level. His team is half cooked, leaving luxury good players and average ones. Giroud doesn't look like mental weak player does he with how his career went after leaving Arsenal?

The issue is we're facing is wasting money, and having difficult to sell expensive players. We're still in a rebuild, and Glazers won't allow us to spend in winter window because they're about to sell the club. Rashford record in big games is actually great. You would expect him to be the Giroud in a proper setting than being the Kolscielny.
 
I have been saying, a humbling has been coming and got pelters for it last week. We conceded way too many chances in previous games and never got punished.

Its the same old story where we cannot dominate the ball, cannot keep the ball, cannot create anything in the first half.

This was a performance that was on the manager.
 
He got it wrong. It happens. We've come a long way from where we were, to the point where many were optimistic about a win yesterday, which hasn't happened in a long time.

What is most important is that we improve from this going forward. You could argue that this has been coming, though not in the statistical 'we were due a loss sometime' way. In a lot of matches recently (With the exception of Barcelona who were inexplicably unimpressive over the two legs) we have been coasting through at least half of a lot of these matches, usually the first half, and then doing just enough to get the win in the second half. Which is great in that we've been able to get the results and we've looked good while doing so, but there was always the chance that a match would come along where we weren't able to just switch it on in the second half and get the win. Unfortunately that ended up being yesterday and that was the result.

All we can do now is pick up and move on, and hopefully this doesn't derail the season. If this was the squad from two years ago I would have guessed that that was the more likely outcome, but we have some real winners in the team now who, along with ETH will hopefully get things going again before long.

As for the team itself, to my non football mind, I think there are a couple changes we can potentially make. Firstly, we should switch to a midfield 3. As good as Cas and Fred have been, we rarely have prolonged periods where our midfield is in control of the game, so there's always a chance we could be gotten at. And Bruno isn't a CM either. I would play Cas, Fred and Sabitzer, Rashford on the left, WW up top (Due to lack of options, not on merit) and Bruno wide right. Get some stability in the team and secure a few wins in a row to rebuild the momentum.
 
We needed a reality check and it was coming, however I did not expect a 7 goal trashing. We have been overachieving and we've got away with result in recent games, and the Barcelona tie overblew our progress.
 
Big 2 games coming up in the week, win these two and we'll be back on track. One thing I have confidence in that tactically ETH will study the game with the players and make them learn from their mistakes.
 
kouroux said:
It's a lot more than 3pts, football is more than simple points. It's about the possible effect of this result in future games, it's about pride and self esteem. There is something fundamentally wrong with losing 7-0 against your biggest rival.
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Of course there is but it means diddly squat at the end of the season if we can walk away with 2-3 trophies and a top 4 finish.
 
I am almost scared to say this but the first half wasn't too bad yesterday. Calmed the crowd, created chances and could easily have gone in 1-0 up instead of down. However once it hit 3-0 changes were needed. Even in the first half Weghorst and Antony were hopeless and Dalot did look a bit ropey. Once it hit 3-0 we had to bring an extra body on in midfield, Sabitizer or McT, possibly both for energy and control.
ETH substitutions have been brilliant all year but he got this one very badly wrong.
 
Anfield is one stadium where we should always play counter football, even during Fergie era, the only memories that I have of winning in Anfield were O'shea goal, and forlan goals, both games we were defensive and compact.

Its just like how highbury used to be for us.

This is one thing that is a blemish, sometimes you have to swallow your ego and understand that at places like Anfield, that is probably our worst ground, its ok to grind out result by soaking up pressure and playing counter. Giving respect to liverpool even if they are in their worst season in 4-5 years, is fine.
 
ETH does deserve some criticism, but the issue yesterday was not primarily tactical. Plenty of teams have played Liverpool this season, even last season, with poor tactics and average personnel. None shipped 7 goals, except Bournemouth.

The issue is a paper thin squad and too many games. Plus we still have remnants of the Ole era and some of those players have proven themselves to be mentally weak.

We literally have no fit striker in the squad, unless you count 1-in-14 Weghorst. We have no progressive technical midfielder since Eriksen got injured so we cannot look after the ball or hope to control games in possession. Just those two issues means we are always going to be vulnerable.

Rashford's incredible 3 months have papered over the cracks.
 
bosskeano said:
it's a beating...against a team we all despise but whether it's 1-0 or 7-0, it is still only 3 points and nothing more than that
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It's worse than getting nothing from the game given our goal difference is now significantly worse than our top 4 rivals. Somehow even worse than last season after 25 games.

Ten Hag's got his work cut out given this squad has form for capitulating at this stage of the season.
 
Nou_Camp99 said:
That's a sack worthy performance in any normal season tbh.

But in his defence this isn't a normal season at all. We've played 21 games in 2 months because FIFA and Qatar are as bent as a nine bob note. We also won a trophy last week.

This can't be repeated though. Any United team can lose at City and Liverpool but we shouldn't be getting battered by them. He needs to realise this isn't the Dutch League. We can't go everywhere and play so openly.
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If a manager was sackable because of an isolated incident - which it is as the form after Brentford and City has been above expectations, then call it a day. Klopp watched his side ship 7 at Villa and he's still there 2.5 years later.

It's a pathetic viewpoint adding unnecessary fuel to the fire.

I mean what about the sheer volume of players who have taken part in the nine 4+ goal concession games over the last season and a half? When do they get sacked? When do they get told sorry, we're not paying you 200 grand this week because you flat out refused to perform as a professional athlete and lost your head? Why is it always the manager's accountability?

For what it's worth, EtH comes across as a guy who will absolutely look at himself in the mirror at the same time.
 
The worry is that there's a small perception that the team still doesn't need adequate number of recruits. I'd say that atleast 5 signings are needed to replace some of the first team. That's fullback, two midfielders, another wide attacking player (Sancho / Antony haven't been good enough overall) and a striker.

Realistically Fred and Fernandes need improvement upon. The higher the quality of opposition the more of a liability Fernandes will become in possession. It's a double edged sword because he's integral with his contribution but at the end of a few assists and goals his performances always undermine this.

The teams performances have dropped a level or two since Eriksens injury I said the other day that the midfield lacks composure and it shows oftentimes throughout games. Weghorst has been an absolute disaster even to some extent that if Ronaldo didn't come with the baggage off field and towards the team, his genuine footballing ability despite his decline is still miles above Weghorst despite the latter having a far better attitude. My hope is that the manager doesn't see this squad near completion but rather one that needs serious investment.
 
NotoriousISSY said:
If a manager was sackable because of an isolated incident - which it is as the form after Brentford and City has been above expectations, then call it a day. Klopp watched his side ship 7 at Villa and he's still there 2.5 years later.

It's a pathetic viewpoint adding unnecessary fuel to the fire.

I mean what about the sheer volume of players who have taken part in the nine 4+ goal concession games over the last season and a half? When do they get sacked? When do they get told sorry, we're not paying you 200 grand this week because you flat out refused to perform as a professional athlete and lost your head? Why is it always the manager's accountability?

For what it's worth, EtH comes across as a guy who will absolutely look at himself in the mirror at the same time.
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It's our heaviest defeat for about 80 years isn't it? Absolute shocker there's no hiding from it.

I will put it down to fatigue and weariness this time. He's lucky he's got a lot of credit in the bank already. Can you imagine had we lost at Wembley and followed it with that? Thankfully we didn't.
 
I'd predicted there would be a hangover effect coming. I didn't expect it to be that bad of course but I still think it's mainly the factor of having so many big games back to back to back and it just caught up to the players, silly mistakes and then lost their heads.

Of course it's a disastrous result but we can't let it be the story of the season, we've made some good progress this season. Won a trophy, beat Barca over 2 legs and deservedly so. Let's trust Ten Hag to pick up the lads and get back in gear for a Europa League run.

Carabao + deep runs in FA cup and Europa (hopefully picking one up) and top 4 would be a very good season after last year.
 
Ludens the Red said:
There’s a touch of Arsenal 2014-2017 about us. You had that core group of Arsenal players who would win an FA Cup the odd year but then get humiliated everytime they went away to City , Liverpool or Chelsea. I get those vibes at the minute from these lot. And you do wonder maybe it is engrained in the likes of De Gea, Dalot, Shaw, Fred, Bruno, Mctominay, Rashford who have been ever present for those bad defeats. We obviously can’t and shouldn’t get rid of all of them but this is clearly something in their make up as players.
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Feel the exact same way thats a very good comparison. Excellent post mate.
 
Skills said:
I don't think you can trust him with recruitment. I think it's the case with a lot of top modern coaches.

I'd say Antony was the litmus test of his recruitment (his £80m marquee signing) and it's a terrible one, especially considering he coached the guy for years.

We need a head of recruitment, and he just needs to work with the players he's given. He's quite good at that - he's improved AWB, and generally speaking the players already at the club have benefited from his coaching.
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Yep. But United are stupid and never learn. All talk and then we do the same mistakes over and over again.
 
He has credit in the bank but yesterday that credit has taken a bit of a hit, the Weghorst experiment is a baffling one, yes he does things for the team but a striker's main job is putting the ball in the back of the net. Need to move on quickly from yesterday and focus on nailing down 3rd because winning the cups while great will be very hollow if they inexplicably fall off the top 4 cliff at the business end of the season.
 
Nou_Camp99 said:
That's a sack worthy performance in any normal season tbh.

But in his defence this isn't a normal season at all. We've played 21 games in 2 months because FIFA and Qatar are as bent as a nine bob note. We also won a trophy last week.

This can't be repeated though. Any United team can lose at City and Liverpool but we shouldn't be getting battered by them. He needs to realise this isn't the Dutch League. We can't go everywhere and play so openly.
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We didn't even play that openly.

The 1st half was fine and we had the better of the chances.

There's no game-planning for players literally giving up on the field and refusing to run/battle.

Just to add: I'm not absolving Ten Hag of the result either. It's everyone's fault, but the problem wasn't tactically(besides Weghorst being shoed in to put Bruno wide and Rashford away from Trent).
 
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