Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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Sparky Rhiwabon said:
The only plus point of today is that it should be a wake up call to the club hierarchy that there is still a lot of work (I.e. investment) needed with the squad, the good run of fixtures may have papered over that.
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The club hierarchy, except EtH hopefully get sacked off once a new owner comes in.
 
Jericholyte2 said:
Barring the goal right at the end, the first half was a near-perfect away performance, a prolific striker in the team and we could have been 2-0 up before their goal.

The players absolutely lost it in the first five minutes of the second half, I don’t see how you can coach against that.

It was a complete freak occurrence - Ten Hag’s job is to make sure it never happens again.
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It’s not though is it.. it’s happened multiple times now in the last few seasons. Getting smashed and conceding a glut of goals in quick succession.
This group of players chuck it in when the going gets tough.
They’ve done it time and time and time again and they’ll probably do it again in the future at some point. Even adding people like Casemiro and Martinez hasn’t stopped it.
 
Rightnr said:
The only thing I hope doesn't happen is a LvG-like back in our shells attitude. I don' think it will given how he's reacted to poor results so far but definitely my biggest worry.
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Brentford was pretty bad and just the second game of the season. If that doesn't change ETH neither will this. But hopefully he learned how to play at Anfield.
 
I believe in him. I think he'll shift out the bad batch and improve our club. Seems the type of guy who would accept things are wrong, admit them, and fix them.
 
Ludens the Red said:
It’s not though is it.. it’s happened multiple times now in the last few seasons. Getting smashed and conceding a glut of goals in quick succession.
This group of players chuck it in when the going gets tough.
They’ve done it time and time and time again and they’ll probably do it again in the future at some point. Even adding people like Casemiro and Martinez hasn’t stopped it.
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You can’t consider previous seasons though when the new manager has made the impact that he has. After the 6-3 at City we’ve gone on a run that hasn’t been matched by any team in the top five leagues. We’ve been tested, having to come back on multiple occasions and the players showed the bottle for it.

Which makes todays complete capitulation all the more anomalous. Admittedly some culprits (Dalot, Fred) will either not be at the club, or consigned to rotational roles following next summer, but you can’t use results before the current manager to beat the current manager with.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
This side is mentally weak. Made the worst Pool side in 4 years look like i Stefano's Real Madrid second half.
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I don't think that's fair. They showed their mettle in the Nou Camp and coming back against Barca at home, picking up a trophy a few days later and then getting past a rested West Ham after looking horrid for 70 minutes.

But we still lack some components for a top XI and we still have some issues with regards to mentality in the squad at large.

I hope the team bounces back with three home wins in a row (and a positive result away at Betis). There is no question though ETH will have to rotate and rest some players who have nothing left to give.
 
Freak result but we need a response, even if its scruffy win by a late OG. I'm confident we'll get one.
 
I dont think it's just the players who need to watch it back and learn. Erik himself needs to watch it back and learn that Anfield is no place to start experimenting with Bruno on the left wing.

Hugely disappointed today. Didn't think we'd see those results again but sadly this is still in us. Mentally we still have some issue and our manager really needs to start playing players in their best positions and stop accommodating Weghorst.

Erik's worst game tactically today. No idea why he set up that way.
 
Forgot to mention. Bruno complaining about not getting subbed was very disappointing. Very poor from him all round today with his attitude.
 
Let's face it he's been polishing a turd all season. Fred, Dalot and Shaw are simply not good enough and Bruno can't ever be trusted. A huge wake up call but I do trust Ten Haag to learn from this and make sure such a capitulation never happens again.
 
I want to see the look on klopp face when we win the Europa and FA cup title,and they celebrate the we beat united 7-0 trophy. I know it's painful to lose to our biggest rival in that manner,but no one sees us as a joke again, even klopp had to change his tactics to exploit our biggest weaknesses.
 
Revan said:
I am chill. I do not think it is the end of the world today, but I also do not think that ten Hag has been great for us (and have been saying so). We have been for most part a good organised team, but nothing spectacular. We are still completely unable to control games. And we are still getting trashed.

The table also does not lie. We are on course for a 75 point season, which usually gives you the fourth place, far away from the champions.

Also, he needs to start looking at players outside of Holland. Casemiro has been the only one that hasn't been Dutch or playing in Holland, and has been by far the best signing.
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I don't think you can trust him with recruitment. I think it's the case with a lot of top modern coaches.

I'd say Antony was the litmus test of his recruitment (his £80m marquee signing) and it's a terrible one, especially considering he coached the guy for years.

We need a head of recruitment, and he just needs to work with the players he's given. He's quite good at that - he's improved AWB, and generally speaking the players already at the club have benefited from his coaching.
 
Bastian said:
I don't think that's fair. They showed their mettle in the Nou Camp and coming back against Barca at home, picking up a trophy a few days later and then getting past a rested West Ham after looking horrid for 70 minutes.
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This is plain excusing them. To me mental toughness is not shown by coming from behind at home. I expect it of a big club in front of their own fans. To me its determined by how you perform at direct rivals. We collapsed first half vs City away. Collapsed in the dying minutes at Arsenal when we should have secured a draw. Collapsed again second half today. Its not coincidence. We made the worst Liverpool side in 4 seasons look like prime Di Stefano Real Madrid second half. That for me says it all. There is more work to do on the mental toughness of this side by ETH and staff.
 
AlPistacho said:
Forgot to mention. Bruno complaining about not getting subbed was very disappointing. Very poor from him all round today with his attitude.
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He's traumatised from all these hammerings and needs to be shown the fecking door along with a few other players who've been with us since the 5-0 at Old Trafford last season.
 
Skills said:
I don't think you can trust him with recruitment. I think it's the case with a lot of top modern coaches.

I'd say Antony was the litmus test of his recruitment (his £80m marquee signing) and it's a terrible one, especially considering he coached the guy for years.

We need a head of recruitment, and he just needs to work with the players he's given. He's quite good at that - he's improved AWB, and generally speaking the players already at the club have benefited from his coaching.
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I tend to agree, he had very solid support at Ajax in this department, handing over 100% control to him at United is a very risky move that I doubt any other club with our ambitions and resources would take.
 
I for one don't understand why away from home against a top side we don't play with a flat 3 in midfield. Every drubbing in the past couple of seasons there's been a chasm of space between the midfield and defence. Surely you need an extra body in there. The midfield gets constantly overrun in these games.
Against inferior opposition where you're likely to dominate the 2 the midfield seems sensible but not against the better teams.
I feel he got it badly wrong starting Weghorst today. Liverpool are very vulnerable in behind and a combo of Gernacho and Rashford would have caused more chaos.
I still feel shocked at the result. The more I think about it with the way we played until they scored and how everything just fell for them on a plate the more I think it was a freakish day. De gae didn't even make one noteworthy save.
The way we bounce back now will determine how much of an effect this will have. Two games at Old Trafford where we've been very strong so we should feel confident. Let's see how mentally strong these players are really are. ETH has to respond.
 
Ludens the Red said:
It’s not though is it.. it’s happened multiple times now in the last few seasons. Getting smashed and conceding a glut of goals in quick succession.
This group of players chuck it in when the going gets tough.
They’ve done it time and time and time again and they’ll probably do it again in the future at some point. Even adding people like Casemiro and Martinez hasn’t stopped it.
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We're brittle psychologically. It make you want to chuck them out and start again with guys untainted by this trait, but you can't get rid of Varane, Casemiro, Martinez etc for it.
 
AlPistacho said:
Forgot to mention. Bruno complaining about not getting subbed was very disappointing. Very poor from him all round today with his attitude.
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Fairly certain this was Gary Neville's attempt at humour that will now be taken as gospel.
 
mu4c_20le said:
Brentford was pretty bad and just the second game of the season. If that doesn't change ETH neither will this. But hopefully he learned how to play at Anfield.
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Regardless anything else, what I have gained confidence about ETH this season, is that he is a real quick-learner.
 
The players and manager need to make some kind of formal statement of apology tomorrow, to the fans. It would be the right thing to do.
 
Reddevildans said:
I for one don't understand why away from home against a top side we don't play with a flat 3 in midfield. Every drubbing in the past couple of seasons there's been a chasm of space between the midfield and defence. Surely you need an extra body in there. The midfield gets constantly overrun in these games.
Against inferior opposition where you're likely to dominate the 2 the midfield seems sensible but not against the better teams.
I feel he got it badly wrong starting Weghorst today. Liverpool are very vulnerable in behind and a combo of Gernacho and Rashford would have caused more chaos.
I still feel shocked at the result. The more I think about it with the way we played until they scored and how everything just fell for them on a plate the more I think it was a freakish day. De gae didn't even make one noteworthy save.
The way we bounce back now will determine how much of an effect this will have. Two games at Old Trafford where we've been very strong so we should feel confident. Let's see how mentally strong these players are really are. ETH has to respond.
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The second half collapse has nothing to do with tactics but the psychological shock to the players. I think they really wanted to prove they can pass the test but that second goal completely shock them. They forgot to play as a unit and forgot the discipline. I trust ETH can get them back from the miserable quickly.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
This is plain excusing them. To me mental toughness is not shown by coming from behind at home. I expect it of a big club in front of their own fans. To me its determined by how you perform at direct rivals. We collapsed first half vs City away. Collapsed in the dying minutes at Arsenal when we should have secured a draw. Collapsed again second half today. Its not coincidence. We made the worst Liverpool side in 4 seasons look like prime Di Stefano Real Madrid second half. That for me says it all. There is more work to do on the mental toughness of this side by ETH and staff.
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I agree with your last sentence, of course. And I am not excusing that performance. Just looking at the wider context. The Arsenal game away, against a team that has been playing better than us from the start of the season (and every other team) does have that added context that we had just played away at Palace and lost our most important player and even the manager could be seen deflated then (when Casa was sent off) and for me it was less about mentality and more about endurance. The City away match was earlier on in the season before the team had started to develop into the machine it has been recently. Another part of the context is that this Liverpool team has been awful as you point out yourself and this game was the perfect moment for them to restart their season.

We're not as good as we have been making out, but we are still way better than we have been at any point post SAF. This is a team on an upward trajectory with some issues yet to solve. I'd say at least 4 starting XI players away from being a top class team and a tactical fit for ETH's preferred style. What he's done so far is still remarkable.
 
Last week we won a trophy and knocked Barca out of the Europa. Today was a bad day but ETH has worked wonders this season… let’s not forget he’s only in his first season and he’s not completed his rebuild. We’re 3rd in the league and in all comps. He’ll learn from his mistakes.
 
Surely has to share the blame with the players. You can't entirely fault the players for a results like this.
 
Needs to have a full season with the boys to see who sinks who swims.

Martial is a luxury. Not available for huge parts of the season.
Badly need a new striker.
In dire need of a right back as well.

Address the two parts and give him a team.
 
Two main errors I thought:

- had to play either Rashford or Garnacho at LW from the start. It’s a real weak defensive point for Pool and starting Bruno there was an error;

- Dalot should not be starting over AWB currently in any big match. He just isn’t good enough defensively.

It’s a one off error though. He will learn from it.
 
C'est Moi Cantona said:
I feel sorry for him, he didn't deserve that.

You just know he'll get them to go on another run of wins now, but it must have been a shock that his players had this in them.
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Agreed. We can argue that he made mistakes today but the players let him down badly today. A manager can only do so much, but when players capitulate like they did today, it falls completely at their door. If we were beaten by 2 or even 3 we could look at tactical or selection errors that could have changed the game, but when the players down tools like that, the man on the sideline is helpless.
 
Tom Cato said:
Dalot will enjoy watching himself trying to stop a goal while standing inside the net instead of outside it. Definitely in contention for the "Worst positioning on a play" award of 2023
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I've said it countless times, Wan Bissaka is our best RB and I feel confident of a result when he plays. When he plays that right flank is locked down. He may not be the best offensively but our RB position a literal brick wall for the opposition.
Then again he may also have turned to shite in a match like this.
Those were terrible goals to concede.
Looked like the players were out drinking last night.
 
Bastian said:
I agree with your last sentence, of course. And I am not excusing that performance. Just looking at the wider context. The Arsenal game away, against a team that has been playing better than us from the start of the season (and every other team) does have that added context that we had just played away at Palace and lost our most important player and even the manager could be seen deflated then (when Casa was sent off) and for me it was less about mentality and more about endurance. The City away match was earlier on in the season before the team had started to develop into the machine it has been recently. Another part of the context is that this Liverpool team has been awful as you point out yourself and this game was the perfect moment for them to restart their season.

We're not as good as we have been making out, but we are still way better than we have been at any point post SAF. This is a team on an upward trajectory with some issues yet to solve. I'd say at least 4 starting XI players away from being a top class team and a tactical fit for ETH's preferred style. What he's done so far is still remarkable.
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Of course what he has done is remarkable. This team has come far. Plus performed well. Its just in my view their next step of growth is mentality away from home. Many of these players once went unbeaten away from home for a full season under a mere solksjaer. They have it in them to regain that mental toughness
 
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