Indeed, not a chance in hell Antony wasn’t a Ten Hag signing. It’s much more likely the board were against it and ETH put pressure on.
£80m is crazy money but that’s football nowadays, plus Ajax had no reason to sell so we needed to give them one.
Whatever you think of Antony if we hadn’t signed for that position we’d be fecked this season. Sancho has been out for months, Pellistri clearly isn’t ready (still not sure if he will make it in the PL despite his obvious talent) and Amad while having a great season now was coming off the back of a disastrous loan with Rangers.
We basically only had Sancho, Rashford, an injury prone Martial (returning from a disastrous loan at Sevilla) and a toxic Ronaldo to work with at the start of the season.
Yes you would have taken it, because you are not the manager.
I thought you wanted us to back Ten Hag? How do you know Ten Hag didn't go to the board and say, I have seen pre season, I have seen the first 3/4 games, I am not convinced about Diallo, Pellestri, Sancho, get me Antony at all costs.
Look, I will not argue about the Glazers, we all know they are shit owners.
What really is frustrating is fans taking this narrative and running with it without knowledge. The footballing structure has been changed since last year, which is why we opted for Ten Hag and not Poch or Conte, which the old structure would have gone for.
So you want the club to buy players and give them to the manager? The plan for the summer was to give the manager his options because we had 4 months prior sacked some scouts and other personnel at the club.
The clubs plan was to have Rangnick, Ten Hag got asked and he refused that option. I suggest you go and watch Ten Hag's first presser where he said, he analyses players himself. Giving Ten Hag the summer is not incompetence, it actually is the reason why he has improved us so much.
You are speculating that ETH was okay with spending that money on Antony and not having money to spend in January. For all we know he could have told there would be money in January only to find out there was 5 million pounds.
Backing the manager does not equate to do everything he wants. Again this problem is solved by having competent football people at the club who can provide input and disagree with ETH.
The GM or director of football along with the manager are in charge of recruitment. It's not that complicated and doesn't mean i want the club to buy players and give them to the manager. It is a collaborative decision made by people who understand the player landscape, the way the team wants to play and the financial situation. It is completely unreasonable and incompetent to put it all on ETH at the start of his tenure which also happened to be the worst starting point of any united manager since Fergie.
ETH refused Rangnick because the players and Rangnick had a broken relationship, it doesn't mean he would have refused Van der Sar or any other competent person in the role. He did not want to be saddled with Ralfs statements about the current squad and wanted a clean non toxic slate.
If you can't see that what I've bolded is a symptom of the incompetence of the club then we aren't going to agree. Hey ETH so we've sacked our entire scouting department and the people left have no clue about football so just pick your targets and we'll spend whatever to get them mate. If ETH wasn't doing a good job that could have been football suicide. Another Maguire/AWB summer this year and we'd be up shits creek.
I want the manager to be supported and I also want the club to be competent. It's not that complicated. We want to be at the top level even after ETH goes so the structures need to be in place. Spending your entire budget in the summer and having nothing left to spend in January is not smart whatever way you slice it. The fact that Manchester united can only afford loan signings in any window is not good financial planning any way you slice it. Hiring ETH is why he's improved us so much not because we allowed him to spunk the whole budget in the summer. Here's a crazy idea, plan your finances so you can spend big in the summer and still have 20-30 million left to spend in January.
Right, so I am speculating on things but what you are saying has come from your conversation with Ten Hag right?
All I can do is speculate on the evidence infront of me. In respects to Antony, the information I have seen and taken is as follows. Ten Hag worked with Antony, went to pre season, saw holes in the team. We started the season with Elanga playing, we lost games and Ten Hag realised with Martial injuries, Ronaldo being shit, he needs someone he trusts, a player who he has worked with. The club wont spend that money on a player if the manager does no Okay it. He would have been told that, look we don't have that much money but we could go extra but Jan will have to be a struggle, we dont know.
Who said it was all on the manager? as Ten Hag said, Antony has been on United's list before he came, Casemiro was not a Ten Hag signing, so clearly it was a joint effort by the club. In respects to Licha, Ten Hag wanted a specific player in there so we went for him.
Okay, your comment about Van De Sar shows you don't actually know how Ajax operated. That says it all for me. I will tell you though, It was more Overmars who worked with Ten Hag.
Again, clearly you have no clue what was happening at United, we did not sack the whole scouting network. So you wanted the club to say Ten Hag we have hired you, here are the players we feel work for you because we can read your brain and we know what players you need more than you, so here is the choices.
So you are assuming that all of the summer signings were a Ten Hag signing, its not like United have ever scouted Antony, Casemiro, Eriksen, of which 2 were already on Uniteds list from before.
So it is the same board that you are criticising that hired Ten Hag, you know that right? So clearly the non footballing people know something about football to hire him and not Poch or Conte.
You also do realise football is a changing dynamic, after the window Arnold came out and said we went overboard and dont expect to see that kind of window in the next.
Since then the glazers also want to sell, so ofcourse less money is available. Stop being a spoilt child screaming Daddy I want I want.
Stop being a Glazer bitch and making excuses for their incompetence. FSG want to sell , somehow they can still spend money.
Arnold is the one who went overboard on last minute signings after doing feck all for the first month and a half of the window. Antony and Martinez could have been had cheaper if they were competent. Nobody expects us to spend 200 plus million in January but to have no money is pathetic and embarrassing. The board have done one thing right in the past decade, Woohoo incredible. Anyways we're going around in circles and
P.S I am not into discussion = will not reply back
I like seeing this. It's just what I was advocating for and quite often criticised for in this forum.I can see what's he's trying to do. Arsenal is too far ahead and City is still a top side however you wanna look at it. These two will do better than us over the course of a season realistically.
It's better to win a Mickey Mouse treble than putting everything into PL and not winning anything. Maybe that's why he keeps putting strong teams in all comps. He's hungry for those trophies.
Good post, but how do you explain Ten Haags scalp wounds?Right, so I am speculating on things but what you are saying has come from your conversation with Ten Hag right?
All I can do is speculate on the evidence infront of me. In respects to Antony, the information I have seen and taken is as follows. Ten Hag worked with Antony, went to pre season, saw holes in the team. We started the season with Elanga playing, we lost games and Ten Hag realised with Martial injuries, Ronaldo being shit, he needs someone he trusts, a player who he has worked with. The club wont spend that money on a player if the manager does no Okay it. He would have been told that, look we don't have that much money but we could go extra but Jan will have to be a struggle, we dont know.
Who said it was all on the manager? as Ten Hag said, Antony has been on United's list before he came, Casemiro was not a Ten Hag signing, so clearly it was a joint effort by the club. In respects to Licha, Ten Hag wanted a specific player in there so we went for him.
Okay, your comment about Van De Sar shows you don't actually know how Ajax operated. That says it all for me. I will tell you though, It was more Overmars who worked with Ten Hag.
Again, clearly you have no clue what was happening at United, we did not sack the whole scouting network. So you wanted the club to say Ten Hag we have hired you, here are the players we feel work for you because we can read your brain and we know what players you need more than you, so here is the choices.
So you are assuming that all of the summer signings were a Ten Hag signing, its not like United have ever scouted Antony, Casemiro, Eriksen, of which 2 were already on Uniteds list from before.
So it is the same board that you are criticising that hired Ten Hag, you know that right? So clearly the non footballing people know something about football to hire him and not Poch or Conte.
You also do realise football is a changing dynamic, after the window Arnold came out and said we went overboard and dont expect to see that kind of window in the next.
Since then the glazers also want to sell, so ofcourse less money is available. Stop being a spoilt child screaming Daddy I want I want.
My only real problem with the Antony signing is that multiple sources have said we could have gotten him for cheaper earlier in the window. Not for a small fee mind you but one that would have left us able to have some wiggle room now.Indeed, not a chance in hell Antony wasn’t a Ten Hag signing. It’s much more likely the board were against it and ETH put pressure on.
£80m is crazy money but that’s football nowadays, plus Ajax had no reason to sell so we needed to give them one.
Whatever you think of Antony if we hadn’t signed for that position we’d be fecked this season. Sancho has been out for months, Pellistri clearly isn’t ready (still not sure if he will make it in the PL despite his obvious talent) and Amad while having a great season now was coming off the back of a disastrous loan with Rangers.
We basically only had Sancho, Rashford, an injury prone Martial (returning from a disastrous loan at Sevilla) and a toxic Ronaldo to work with at the start of the season.
I agree that Antony could have been bought for cheaper.Stop being a Glazer bitch and making excuses for their incompetence. FSG want to sell , somehow they can still spend money.
Arnold is the one who went overboard on last minute signings after doing feck all for the first month and a half of the window. Antony and Martinez could have been had cheaper if they were competent. Nobody expects us to spend 200 plus million in January but to have no money is pathetic and embarrassing. The board have done one thing right in the past decade, Woohoo incredible. Anyways we're going around in circles and
P.S I am not into discussion = will not reply back
Mosquito bite scratching, told him not to, but he never listens.Good post, but how do you explain Ten Haags scalp wounds?
Looks like he's going to have to make do with what he's got now until the summer. A parting gift from the Glazers. Maybe he needs to start prioritising the different competitions instead of praying for a miracle and hoping everyone stays fit for the next 4 months?
I can see what's he's trying to do. Arsenal is too far ahead and City is still a top side however you wanna look at it. These two will do better than us over the course of a season realistically.
It's better to win a Mickey Mouse treble than putting everything into PL and not winning anything. Maybe that's why he keeps putting strong teams in all comps. He's hungry for those trophies.
He would rotate more but he probably watched all our games from last season. People are fast to forget some games with McFred, Lindelof and Maguire combo.
somehow this doesn't add up. So after getting this far in the tournament giving up to get 4th place in the competition? In that case we shouldn't have even started competing in that stupid Carabao cup. By now it's the moment to grab that trophy and reap the benefits from itLooks like he's going to have to make do with what he's got now until the summer. A parting gift from the Glazers. Maybe he needs to start prioritising the different competitions instead of praying for a miracle and hoping everyone stays fit for the next 4 months?
somehow this doesn't add up. So after getting this far in the tournament giving up to get 4th place in the competition? In that case we shouldn't have even started competing in that stupid Carabao cup. By now it's the moment to grab that trophy and reap the benefits from it
Right, so I am speculating on things but what you are saying has come from your conversation with Ten Hag right?
All I can do is speculate on the evidence infront of me. In respects to Antony, the information I have seen and taken is as follows. Ten Hag worked with Antony, went to pre season, saw holes in the team. We started the season with Elanga playing, we lost games and Ten Hag realised with Martial injuries, Ronaldo being shit, he needs someone he trusts, a player who he has worked with. The club wont spend that money on a player if the manager does no Okay it. He would have been told that, look we don't have that much money but we could go extra but Jan will have to be a struggle, we dont know.
Who said it was all on the manager? as Ten Hag said, Antony has been on United's list before he came, Casemiro was not a Ten Hag signing, so clearly it was a joint effort by the club. In respects to Licha, Ten Hag wanted a specific player in there so we went for him.
Okay, your comment about Van De Sar shows you don't actually know how Ajax operated. That says it all for me. I will tell you though, It was more Overmars who worked with Ten Hag.
Again, clearly you have no clue what was happening at United, we did not sack the whole scouting network. So you wanted the club to say Ten Hag we have hired you, here are the players we feel work for you because we can read your brain and we know what players you need more than you, so here is the choices.
So you are assuming that all of the summer signings were a Ten Hag signing, its not like United have ever scouted Antony, Casemiro, Eriksen, of which 2 were already on Uniteds list from before.
So it is the same board that you are criticising that hired Ten Hag, you know that right? So clearly the non footballing people know something about football to hire him and not Poch or Conte.
You also do realise football is a changing dynamic, after the window Arnold came out and said we went overboard and dont expect to see that kind of window in the next.
Since then the glazers also want to sell, so ofcourse less money is available. Stop being a spoilt child screaming Daddy I want I want.
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I strongly disagree, licha called ten hag and said , i am leaving ajax, i would rather follow you. Result. He cam. Do you think that Erik analyzed the squad he saw that he need the spirit licha brought? He knows him from own experience. Same with anthony he nnow they are warriors
Keeps subbing off his own £80m player and never has the balls to do daring subs but instead keeps on taking off attackers for midfielders. I 100% agree we should not be too harsh on him due to it being his first year but at the same time, do not kid yourselves, if Spurs, Chelsea & Liverpool were not so shit this year we would be miles off top 4.
We are only 6 ahead of Contes miserable Spurs.....
They follow him because he is telling them win win win. Rashford is now hot player, probably 150m.Right, a nice way to select the players you dont like to form a narrative.
So how come you didn't include players like Shaw, Rashford, Bruno, Sancho, Martial in the list, in most games were the combo included in the McFred, Lindelof, Maguire combo?
Why is it that people forget how bad those players were too?
I fully believe ETH is the right manager for us and that there are less than 5 other managers in the world that would be able to get us the results he will get us this season and in future seasons
This nonsense seems to be spouted every season for numerous clubs.Keeps subbing off his own £80m player and never has the balls to do daring subs but instead keeps on taking off attackers for midfielders. I 100% agree we should not be too harsh on him due to it being his first year but at the same time, do not kid yourselves, if Spurs, Chelsea & Liverpool were not so shit this year we would be miles off top 4.
We are only 6 ahead of Contes miserable Spurs.....
There are multiple facets to this. People talk about needing to prioritise in different competitions, is all weird for me.
Well firstly, I dont know how many people fail to understand Ten Hag doesn't like to rotate much. If everyone was fit, he would still play similar teams.
People are crying that McTominay is Casemiro's understudy but what do you expect? A WC DM to sit on the bench hoping for Casemiro to get injured?
We already have a list of injuries to Dalot, Shaw, VDB, Eriksen, Martial and Sancho unavailable. So its clear we have been coping with the injuries, why can we not cope going forward?
People keep saying we need a Bruno replacement but how often did Donny play when he was fit in the first part of the season?
How often has Pellestri played? How many games has Garnacho started?
Exactly good post. This whole depth thing for the sake of it is stupid.
Very few managers are actually capable of rotating and managing a big squad. The vast majority prefer a smaller group
I can accept that can be viewed as nonsense but so is the bolded part of your own post... "We're on course x amount of points" also gets spouted a lot and we all know things can change very quickly in football. Best to judge at the end of the season.This nonsense seems to be spouted every season for numerous clubs.
We're on course for 74 points at current PPG. 74 points gets you top 4 near enough every season with rare exceptions.
There's certainly never a case where 74 points would be "miles off top 4".
And we're only 6 behind Pep's magnificent City
Not much chance of that with Fred and McT in midfield now Eriksen is out until April.This City team are not really what we should be aspiring to be.
City are having a terrible season with players being complacent according to Pep and now they're even falling out with him.
The new benchmark is Arsenal and we showed we can go toe to toe over 90 mins. Now we need to aim to outdo them over the rest of the season.
I don't know how many folks are looking for world class backups. We just need adequate replacements that can come in and compete for a position without the control and performance levels of the team taking a nosedive with square pegs in round holes.There are multiple facets to this. People talk about needing to prioritise in different competitions, is all weird for me.
Well firstly, I dont know how many people fail to understand Ten Hag doesn't like to rotate much. If everyone was fit, he would still play similar teams.
People are crying that McTominay is Casemiro's understudy but what do you expect? A WC DM to sit on the bench hoping for Casemiro to get injured?
We already have a list of injuries to Dalot, Shaw, VDB, Eriksen, Martial and Sancho unavailable. So its clear we have been coping with the injuries, why can we not cope going forward?
People keep saying we need a Bruno replacement but how often did Donny play when he was fit in the first part of the season?
How often has Pellestri played? How many games has Garnacho started?
I don't know how many folks are looking for world class backups. We just need adequate replacements that can come in and compete for a position without the control and performance levels of the team taking a nosedive with square pegs in round holes.
At most positions we actually have these and we've seen many replacements come in and make a case E.g.
DDG/Heaton
Dalot/AWB
Shaw/Malacia
Varane/Lindelof (Maguire)
Martinez/Shaw*
Eriksen/Fred
Antony/Pellistri (Sancho)
Rashford/Garnacho/Sancho
Martial/Weghorst
Bruno/Eriksen*
(* = has a different primary position but understands and plays well in the one in question)
However, intriguingly with the example you mentioned, i.e. Casemiro at DM, we definitely need a backup. Not necessarily quality-wise, but someone who can play the role of a 6 and understands it. We have no one else that can. Perhaps Mainoo steps into that, but will have to wait and see.
Wout is a perfect example of someone who is not top tier, but knows the job they're competing for. I suspect the lack of another CF and DM to replace the starters has been one of the main reasons for the worrying sharp drop in control and performances that seem to really come to the fore once the starting DM and CF leave the field.
To be honest, I think the drop off in quality is so stark because we simply don't have another 6. Casemiro is world class, but a functional PL level number 6 that knows how to protect his back four with a calm head and can make simple passes to more expressive players will do (basically - not McTominay).That is my point though, people keep saying the drop of in quality but obviously you will have that, Casemiro will play 80% of the games when fit. You cannot sign someone for that instance what if he is injured for 4 months.
Deliberately missing the point here. I'm simply looking at our PPG and whether we'd usually be in the top 4 at this stage, the extrapolation is just to prove my point that we're in a top 4 position at the current stage.I can accept that can be viewed as nonsense but so is the bolded part of your own post... "We're on course x amount of points" also gets spouted a lot and we all know things can change very quickly in football. Best to judge at the end of the season.
Post you and the other guy quouted was probably after the palace game where I was pissed about his subs..
To be honest, I think the drop off in quality is so stark because we simply don't have another 6. Casemiro is world class, but a functional PL level number 6 that knows how to protect his back four with a calm head and can make simple passes to more expressive players will do (basically - not McTominay).
To your point, that player may only start 20% of games, but will probably come on in the 60th minute of many games across the season and keep us ticking over like Fred does for Eriksen.
I don't know how many folks are looking for world class backups. We just need adequate replacements that can come in and compete for a position without the control and performance levels of the team taking a nosedive with square pegs in round holes.
At most positions we actually have these and we've seen many replacements come in and make a case E.g.
DDG/Heaton
Dalot/AWB
Shaw/Malacia
Varane/Lindelof (Maguire)
Martinez/Shaw*
Eriksen/Fred
Antony/Pellistri (Sancho)
Rashford/Garnacho/Sancho
Martial/Weghorst
Bruno/Eriksen*
(* = has a different primary position but understands and plays well in the one in question)
However, intriguingly with the example you mentioned, i.e. Casemiro at DM, we definitely need a backup. Not necessarily quality-wise, but someone who can play the role of a 6 and understands it. We have no one else that can. Perhaps Mainoo steps into that, but will have to wait and see.
Wout is a perfect example of someone who is not top tier, but knows the job they're competing for. I suspect the lack of another CF and DM to replace the starters has been one of the main reasons for the worrying sharp drop in control and performances that seem to really come to the fore once the starting DM and CF leave the field.
