I agree with need someone with the belief they can turn things around in order to actually turn things around.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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But the hierarchy hired the managers. We had the chances to hire the right ones but didn't.
Mourinho wanted players and was refused.
LvG wanted players and was refused.
We just can't keep blaming the manager every time. What other top club would hire an Interim manager at a time when we needed a top manager. Rangnick was also refused a striker and Kamara for midfield back in January. It's ridiculous what's going on.
Reqruitment setup has needed improvement for quite some time, but people fail to accept that this problem started under Ferguson.
Agree, we will already have a large amount of players going, and personally I can't see any point in us trying to sign too many players too quickly, it just so unlikely to work, so maybe 3-4 in, and get players like Martial, DVB, and Garner back at the club for now.
The only players I can see going for any sort of fee are Henderson or AWB.
Pep wanted players and was refused, Klopp had other preferencies than Salah. Managers are always refused players, it’s nothing new. It’s a coincidence that the timing aligned perfectly for Klopp taking over Liverpool.
I was jumped on when I mentioned this before, but looks increasingly likely that we are going to have a clearout over the next 2/3 windows with the biggest one being this summer.
There is always excuses to blame the manager also. I do think that Pep mostly gets what he wants.
There's a big difference between the manager having final say in transfers (as in no player gets signed unless the manager green lights it) and the manager having full control over both incomings and outgoings.
No manager in a current elite side has the latter. Not Pep, not Klopp, not Tuchel, nobody. If they want a player but their extended recruitment set up is against it, they can be overruled. Because allowing the manager to buy and sell whoever he wants without safeguards would be a ludicrous way to run a modern football club. We need to operate as per best practice in 2022, not as per best practice in 1986 when SAF was hired.
No manager in a current elite side has the latter. Not Pep, not Klopp, not Tuchel, nobody. If they want a player but their extended recruitment set up is against it, they can be overruled. Because allowing the manager to buy and sell whoever he wants without safeguards would be a ludicrous way to run a modern football club. We need to operate as per best practice in 2022, not as per best practice in 1986 when SAF was hired.
So did Mourinho at Manchester United, and Van Gaal.
Yup.
We should have modernized towards the end of Fergies reign, should’ve done it after, didn’t. If it works don’t fix it, Kodak etc.
Most top clubs scouting recruitment usually check on a managers request of a player and will scout him for a time and report back. But usually the manager will be right. Pep changed his full backs like changing his stockings in 2/3 years. If these players were scouted then it did not take long to get them signed up.
Yes, money talks sometimes, but we had 70 scouts one time in the last 5 years, and couldn't find a top midfielder.
Nah the fullbacks are a much bigger issue. Varane, Maguire and Lindelof are all good players. De Gea is a massive hindrance behind them too because he’s rooted to his line. CB would probably be bottom of my list.
We literally have continued to think this way. It’s incredibly old fashioned and unless you land on a brilliant manager it leaves you lost. Klopp and Pep do not get this freedom btw!
While I don’t think you’re wrong, there’s absolutely no way he gets rid of all those players at once. Maguire, Rashford, Fred, McTominay will all get a fair chance.
They'll back him, just like they backed all the other managers post Fergie? What makes you think they'll change now?
He wouldn't have taken the job without assurances on that front.
I am talking about FINAL say not freedom. When I say total control of incomings I mean FINAL say.
They seriously don’t. There are very, very, few big talents that are unknown to top clubs, most of the time we scout the same players as everyone else. Managers these days don‘t spend time advising scouts on players they should look at, especially not at the highest level. Managers will always have a preference for certain players they want to sign, but it’s very rarely at that level. The entire point is having a functioning setup that means the club will find the correct players for the manager, not having a manager that finds the correct players to scout.
Klopp credits Edwards for Liverpool signing Salah, as Klopp wanted to sign someone else instead…
Should get top four though. Its Arsenal and Tottenham for God sake. It's not Liverpool or Manchester City. I am not expecting trophies. The aim should be to get champions league football.
I am not going to keep arguing with you if you are going to find loopholes just to keep up the argument, I don't have the time. I will finish by saying Fergie always had his trusted scouts who would scout the players he asked of them to scout and report back to him.
Read his books and check out his scouts for all the time he was there.
Again that’s a privilege we have afforded all our other managers and it’s put us into the hole we are in now. They should get a day, but final say should be the DOF.
Hate the Glazers but they ain't selling up anytime soon unfortunately. Stuck with them.
Woodward for the last 10years. His negotiations lost us many players that the managers wanted.
He hasn’t really signed anyone the manager hasn’t asked for though.
……and there used to be a time when women were expected to stay at home with the children rather than work. Fergie was Fergie, looking for one unique managers that can run everything on their own is not the solution, there’s a reason clubs have completely moved on from this.
Don't disagree with you. If we can get 40m for Maguire then off with him. The budget is not unlimited however and ETH is going to have to make do with a combo of working with what he has and bringing in maybe new 5 players.
Unfortunately I don't think we will see anymore than that, my point is that that would be ok for the moment if he can also get the likes of Maguire and Shaw back to form.
He hasn't signed anyone they did ask for would be more acurate. He lost players by taking ages to negotiate.
What exactly is correct power? Moyes, Van Gaal, Mourinho and Ole were pretty much given the same power Fergie had
Give up man your scraping the barrel now.
Which top clubs these days are operating like we used to do under Fergie? The vast majority of the fanbase is desperate for us to move further away from it.
You must be leading that small fanbase, mate. That's it now your making me go to the pub.
I don't think recruitment needs to be complicated. Fergie did what worked for him and the club at that time, but that era is long gone and there isn't another Fergie. What we've been doing since then hasn't been working, therefore we change it. How do we change it? Well there are numerous elite clubs that manage to operate successfully with a tried and true model. We find the right personnel and we emulate what the others are doing.
I would have to question that. I doubt Ole asked for Ronaldo, I think that was all Fergie, didn't Fergie phone him to ask him to come back, I reckon that was Fergie just assuming that that Ole wanted him which I'm not sure about.
That was our most recent signing, Mata, one of the first signings under Woodward, was that Moyes or Woodwards choice I wonder.
Whatever about the above, he has certainly not signed players the manager asked for.
So you reckon a small part of the fanbase wants the club to operate with a DOF?
Watching the shit show that was yesterday, the one thing he needs to get right is the coaching set up. We can go on about signing this player or that player but if he lumbered with the most of what we have now I fear he is doomed.
Agree to disagree, thinks that’s wide of the mark of the issue.
Klopp didn’t ask for Salah.
Fergie was heavily involved in bringing Ronaldo back, same with Mata to Manchester United when he got personally involved in talking to various Chelsea leaders to organize the transfer, doesn’t mean that Ole was against bringing Ronaldo to United or that Moyes was against Mata
Disagree. Of course Ole would have wanted Ronaldo, mad to suggest otherwise.
Mata was close to a decade ago and even then Moyes would clearly have signed off on his signing.
I see very little evidence that every player we have signed wasn’t signed off by the manager at the time, there is very very little evidence to suggest otherwise.
Aye. If anything what they've lacked is the correct support, not the correct power.
They should have best in class recruitment identifying talent for them and best in class negotiators securing it. Their role in the process should be to highlight areas of the team they feel are weak, highlight players they'd be happy to let go and green light targets presented to them by the recuitment team.
Instead they've had "final say" over a recruitment process that that was ill-structured and unfit for purpose in identifying players, securing preferred targets or being able to check the manager from making bad signings. It should never have been left to them to try and make that work.
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