Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[croadyman]

I like EtH but I hate how we're seemingly still employ a manager driven transfer strategy.

Yeah he does need some help

 

[glazed]

Numbers are there to see. We've spent as much as other top clubs (and possibly near the top). At one point, we had 2nd highest wages in the entire world.

The ways we spent those money are the real mismanagement problem. When we say "management", it includes the executives. We have debts but it's serviceable.

Yes but you are talking like these two things - ability to spend a lot and football mismanagement - are completely seperate issues when they are intimately linked.

 

[Yorkeontop]

Yeah he does need some help

The issue for me is the level of influence. Managers come and go, but moving on from their player choices is a bit trickier. The club needs to sign player WE like, players we feel can work with any potential manager. EtH could very well be signing those kind of players, so his supposed influence is not necessarily strictly negative.

 

[lefty_jakobz]

The issue for me is the level of influence. Managers come and go, but moving on from their player choices is a bit trickier. The club needs to sign player WE like, players we feel can work with any potential manager.

Thats why we need a DoF

 

[Yorkeontop]

Thats why we need a DoF

Maybe the next regime sorts this out.

 

[Escobar]

The issue for me is the level of influence. Managers come and go, but moving on from their player choices is a bit trickier. The club needs to sign player WE like, players we feel can work with any potential manager. EtH could very well be signing those kind of players, so his supposed influence is not necessarily strictly negative.

But we also need players the manager likes. And so far he has been excellent with his transfers, so I have no issues. He is far more competent than any other manager we had in the past 10 years

 

[wolvored]

With a DOF you really need them to be in place before the manager and obviously they pick the manager who suits their style, so the players bought in are suitable to both.
We have Murtough (inexperienced) who bought the manager in and apart from WB and Ronaldo has allowed TH free rein on who he wants to bring in within a budget.
A new experienced DOF could jeopardise this, as his vision and TH vision could be different and cause problems, even as extreme as changing managers.
Its not as straightforward as just bringing in a DOF and everything runs smoothly, unless you pick one that matches TH views, then its the tail wagging the dog.

 

[Adnan]

With a DOF you really need them to be in place before the manager and obviously they pick the manager who suits their style, so the players bought in are suitable to both.
We have Murtough (inexperienced) who bought the manager in and apart from WB and Ronaldo has allowed TH free rein on who he wants to bring in within a budget.
A new experienced DOF could jeopardise this, as his vision and TH vision could be different and cause problems, even as extreme as changing managers.
Its not as straightforward as just bringing in a DOF and everything runs smoothly, unless you pick one that matches TH views, then its the tail wagging the dog.

You're correct, but a DoF also needs his own team of head scouts in place for at least a full season to give the head coach viable recruitment options which align with the head coach's vision. But we know via the reliable outlets, that Murtough didn't have authority over Solskjaer and the likes of Lawlor and Bout were put in charge of the scouting department by Woodward.

If by the end of the next summer window, we don't see the influence of Jose Mayorga and Simon Wells, then I myself will be questioning John Murtough. But a DoF shouldn't be signing players on his own whim and I can fully understand why Murtough leaned on ten Hag due to the Dutchman knowing his football approach better than any scout and also after the two head scouts were fired. A full season for the scouts to operate within the parameters set by head coach should yield results and then there's no excuses. Liverpool did the same thing with Klopp, which gave the scouting department the time to adjust to the guiding principle set by the head coach.

The problem is that many fans don't even understand the role of the DoF/football administrator. And if we compare how we have operated during Wooward's tenure and how the most successful clubs operate on the structural side of their football clubs, the difference is obvious imo, and that then causes a paranoia amongst fans who are then confused into believing that the successful clubs have some sort of magic beans that will unlock football. And those magic beans only reside with a select few football directors/football administrators in their minds. And you've got people duped into believing Paul Mitchell is one of those people who has the midas touch when in reality, his career as a head scout has been a mixed bag.

And City under Abu Dhabi, turned to Brian Marwood to put in place the structures/strategy and not the ex Barcelona duo who arrived years later. This is something a lot of fans either don't know or refuse to believe and hence end up crediting the ex Barca duo who arrived years later.

 

[golden_blunder]

You're correct, but a DoF also needs his own team of head scouts in place for at least a full season to give the head coach viable recruitment options which align with the head coach's vision. But we know via the reliable outlets, that Murtough didn't have authority over Solskjaer and the likes of Lawlor and Bout were put in charge of the scouting department by Woodward.

If by the end of the next summer window, we don't see the influence of Jose Mayorga and Simon Wells, then I myself will be questioning John Murtough. But a DoF shouldn't be signing players on his own whim and I can fully understand why Murtough leaned on ten Hag due to the Dutchman knowing his football approach better than any scout and also after the two head scouts were fired. A full season for the scouts to operate within the parameters set by head coach should yield results and then there's no excuses. Liverpool did the same thing with Klopp, which gave the scouting department the time to adjust to the guiding principle set by the head coach.

The problem is that many fans don't even understand the role of the DoF/football administrator. And if we compare how we have operated during Wooward's tenure and how the most successful clubs operate on the structural side of their football clubs, the difference is obvious imo, and that then causes a paranoia amongst fans who are then confused into believing that the successful clubs have some sort of magic beans that will unlock football. And those magic beans only reside with a select few football directors/football administrators in their minds. And you've got people duped into believing Paul Mitchell is one of those people who has the midas touch when in reality, his career as a head scout has been a mixed bag.

And City under Abu Dhabi, turned to Brian Marwood to put in place the structures/strategy and not the ex Barcelona duo who arrived years later. This is something a lot of fans either don't know or refuse to believe and hence end up crediting the ex Barca duo who arrived years later.

Great post

 

[Gavinb33]

You're correct, but a DoF also needs his own team of head scouts in place for at least a full season to give the head coach viable recruitment options which align with the head coach's vision. But we know via the reliable outlets, that Murtough didn't have authority over Solskjaer and the likes of Lawlor and Bout were put in charge of the scouting department by Woodward.

If by the end of the next summer window, we don't see the influence of Jose Mayorga and Simon Wells, then I myself will be questioning John Murtough. But a DoF shouldn't be signing players on his own whim and I can fully understand why Murtough leaned on ten Hag due to the Dutchman knowing his football approach better than any scout and also after the two head scouts were fired. A full season for the scouts to operate within the parameters set by head coach should yield results and then there's no excuses. Liverpool did the same thing with Klopp, which gave the scouting department the time to adjust to the guiding principle set by the head coach.

The problem is that many fans don't even understand the role of the DoF/football administrator. And if we compare how we have operated during Wooward's tenure and how the most successful clubs operate on the structural side of their football clubs, the difference is obvious imo, and that then causes a paranoia amongst fans who are then confused into believing that the successful clubs have some sort of magic beans that will unlock football. And those magic beans only reside with a select few football directors/football administrators in their minds. And you've got people duped into believing Paul Mitchell is one of those people who has the midas touch when in reality, his career as a head scout has been a mixed bag.

And City under Abu Dhabi, turned to Brian Marwood to put in place the structures/strategy and not the ex Barcelona duo who arrived years later. This is something a lot of fans either don't know or refuse to believe and hence end up crediting the ex Barca duo who arrived years later.

Great post, absolutley agree fans gets fixated on the name of an administrator like Mitchell or Campos thinking they'll resolve all issues easily when it absolutely doesn't work that way, I mean Comoli had a huge reputation and he was horrible at Spurs and Liverpool

 

[Yorkeontop]

But we also need players the manager likes. And so far he has been excellent with his transfers, so I have no issues. He is far more competent than any other manager we had in the past 10 years

It definitely requires a compromise. I can't help feel that EtH negotiated himself a tasty deal when it comes to transfer influence, we're just lucky he appears astute. The results are good but I feel like the process is flawed.

 

[JPRouve]

Great post, absolutley agree fans gets fixated on the name of an administrator like Mitchell or Campos thinking they'll resolve all issues easily when it absolutely doesn't work that way, I mean Comoli had a huge reputation and he was horrible at Spurs and Liverpool

Where does Comolli's reputation come from though? The fact that Liverpool hired him after being rightfully and openly blasted by Saint Etienne's owner will always be a mystery.

 

[Crackers]

You're correct, but a DoF also needs his own team of head scouts in place for at least a full season to give the head coach viable recruitment options which align with the head coach's vision. But we know via the reliable outlets, that Murtough didn't have authority over Solskjaer and the likes of Lawlor and Bout were put in charge of the scouting department by Woodward.

If by the end of the next summer window, we don't see the influence of Jose Mayorga and Simon Wells, then I myself will be questioning John Murtough. But a DoF shouldn't be signing players on his own whim and I can fully understand why Murtough leaned on ten Hag due to the Dutchman knowing his football approach better than any scout and also after the two head scouts were fired. A full season for the scouts to operate within the parameters set by head coach should yield results and then there's no excuses. Liverpool did the same thing with Klopp, which gave the scouting department the time to adjust to the guiding principle set by the head coach.

The problem is that many fans don't even understand the role of the DoF/football administrator. And if we compare how we have operated during Wooward's tenure and how the most successful clubs operate on the structural side of their football clubs, the difference is obvious imo, and that then causes a paranoia amongst fans who are then confused into believing that the successful clubs have some sort of magic beans that will unlock football. And those magic beans only reside with a select few football directors/football administrators in their minds. And you've got people duped into believing Paul Mitchell is one of those people who has the midas touch when in reality, his career as a head scout has been a mixed bag.

And City under Abu Dhabi, turned to Brian Marwood to put in place the structures/strategy and not the ex Barcelona duo who arrived years later. This is something a lot of fans either don't know or refuse to believe and hence end up crediting the ex Barca duo who arrived years later.

What really interests/concerns me here is how much investment they're willing to put into this. For years it seems the Glazers invested enough to get by, without really ever knowing what was required to keep the club competitive.
Galacticos, big established names from other clubs and a ridiculous ever-changing approach seemed to be our strategy. It's amazing how Woodward lasted so long in a crucial role, looking back at his tenure, especially his usual ridiculous comments to the media. It reeks of sheer incompetence, and assuming that because he's great at investment banking he could be equally good at football strategy and investment.

 

[royboy16]

You're correct, but a DoF also needs his own team of head scouts in place for at least a full season to give the head coach viable recruitment options which align with the head coach's vision. But we know via the reliable outlets, that Murtough didn't have authority over Solskjaer and the likes of Lawlor and Bout were put in charge of the scouting department by Woodward.

If by the end of the next summer window, we don't see the influence of Jose Mayorga and Simon Wells, then I myself will be questioning John Murtough. But a DoF shouldn't be signing players on his own whim and I can fully understand why Murtough leaned on ten Hag due to the Dutchman knowing his football approach better than any scout and also after the two head scouts were fired. A full season for the scouts to operate within the parameters set by head coach should yield results and then there's no excuses. Liverpool did the same thing with Klopp, which gave the scouting department the time to adjust to the guiding principle set by the head coach.

The problem is that many fans don't even understand the role of the DoF/football administrator. And if we compare how we have operated during Wooward's tenure and how the most successful clubs operate on the structural side of their football clubs, the difference is obvious imo, and that then causes a paranoia amongst fans who are then confused into believing that the successful clubs have some sort of magic beans that will unlock football. And those magic beans only reside with a select few football directors/football administrators in their minds. And you've got people duped into believing Paul Mitchell is one of those people who has the midas touch when in reality, his career as a head scout has been a mixed bag.

And City under Abu Dhabi, turned to Brian Marwood to put in place the structures/strategy and not the ex Barcelona duo who arrived years later. This is something a lot of fans either don't know or refuse to believe and hence end up crediting the ex Barca duo who arrived years later.

Well said.

 

[Adnan]

What really interests/concerns me here is how much investment they're willing to put into this. For years it seems the Glazers invested enough to get by, without really ever knowing what was required to keep the club competitive.
Galacticos, big established names from other clubs and a ridiculous ever-changing approach seemed to be our strategy. It's amazing how Woodward lasted so long in a crucial role, looking back at his tenure, especially his usual ridiculous comments to the media. It reeks of sheer incompetence, and assuming that because he's great at investment banking he could be equally good at football strategy and investment.

The owners should've intervened a long time ago but they allowed things to fester. And imo, that then creates a culture where the key decision makers at the top of the chain (Woodward) aren't held accountable for their poor decisions. The managers were also culpable for making poor decisions but those managers would pay with their job, whilst Woodward was still adored by the Glazers if the reports in the media were anything to go by.

I honestly believe if Woodward had hired a head coach who was in-tune with the modern game, we could've won one or two league titles post Fergie. Because a head coach who is in-tune with the present day coaching realities would also work on developing the existing structure already at the club, which in-turn would only benefit the club as a whole. So looking back with the benefit of hindsight, I believe if we had given the job to Pochettino within the first two years of Fergie's retirement, his high pressing approach could well have proven to be crucial at a time when the competition wasn't as fierce as it is now. Brendan Rodgers almost won the league with a high intensity play style at the time.

 

[Grande]

Where does Comolli's reputation come from though? The fact that Liverpool hired him after being rightfully and openly blasted by Saint Etienne's owner will always be a mystery.

Fan chatter will produce fictional reputations like Evra sr produced mini Evras.

 

[wolvored]

You're correct, but a DoF also needs his own team of head scouts in place for at least a full season to give the head coach viable recruitment options which align with the head coach's vision. But we know via the reliable outlets, that Murtough didn't have authority over Solskjaer and the likes of Lawlor and Bout were put in charge of the scouting department by Woodward.

If by the end of the next summer window, we don't see the influence of Jose Mayorga and Simon Wells, then I myself will be questioning John Murtough. But a DoF shouldn't be signing players on his own whim and I can fully understand why Murtough leaned on ten Hag due to the Dutchman knowing his football approach better than any scout and also after the two head scouts were fired. A full season for the scouts to operate within the parameters set by head coach should yield results and then there's no excuses. Liverpool did the same thing with Klopp, which gave the scouting department the time to adjust to the guiding principle set by the head coach.

The problem is that many fans don't even understand the role of the DoF/football administrator. And if we compare how we have operated during Wooward's tenure and how the most successful clubs operate on the structural side of their football clubs, the difference is obvious imo, and that then causes a paranoia amongst fans who are then confused into believing that the successful clubs have some sort of magic beans that will unlock football. And those magic beans only reside with a select few football directors/football administrators in their minds. And you've got people duped into believing Paul Mitchell is one of those people who has the midas touch when in reality, his career as a head scout has been a mixed bag.

And City under Abu Dhabi, turned to Brian Marwood to put in place the structures/strategy and not the ex Barcelona duo who arrived years later. This is something a lot of fans either don't know or refuse to believe and hence end up crediting the ex Barca duo who arrived years later.

I agree. Whether Murtough should have been given the job in the first place is another debate, but he was chucked in last Feb and I have said in other posts he needs at least a full season to judge him. He had to cope with instability, a new manager and then to get to know TH. Next summer (if new owners stick to the setup), would be the benchmark.

 

[Maticmaker]

whilst Woodward was still adored by the Glazers if the reports in the media were anything to go by.

You could look at it another way, that Ed Woodward was JP Morgans 'inside man' charged with making sure the bank got its money back for the leveraging loan (£0.8B) allocated to the Glazers. Doesn't mean the Glazers adored him, but they did need to tolerate him, and he was quite good at rounding up high paying sponsorships although sh** at transfers.

 

[Invictus]

You could look at it another way, that Ed Woodward was JP Morgans 'inside man' charged with making sure the bank got its money back for the leveraging loan (£0.8B) allocated to the Glazers. Doesn't mean the Glazers adored him, but they did need to tolerate him, and he was quite good at rounding up high paying sponsorships although sh** at transfers.

To be fair, United did not need much any sort of guidance in that department — as one of the most storied and iconic sporting institutions in the world, it has long been a marketer's dream. Even before the Glazer takeover, the club was aggregating some of the highest revenues in club football and penning industry-leading deals.

Fri 11 Feb 2000

After months of speculation Manchester United have announced their new sponsors. They have agreed a record-breaking £30million sponsorship deal with Vodafone. The four-year deal, which begins in June, will see the logo of the mobile phone company, who recently completed the biggest takeover deal in history when they purchased German telecommunications firm Mannesmann, replace that of long-term sponsors Sharp on all United shirts. United have been courted by some of the biggest companies in the world in an attempt to secure a space not much larger than a family-sized bar of Dairy Milk. Blue-chip companies such as British Airways, Emirates and Internet firms Yahoo! and Amazon.com have all been linked with the Treble winners.

United announce £30m Vodafone sponsorship.

If anything, Woodward and the owners have gradually eroded the marketing appeal of United by running the sporting sector (i.e., the core of the club, and the basis for its prestige) at a sub-optimal level.

 

[Maticmaker]

If anything, Woodward and the owners have gradually eroded the marketing appeal of United by running the sporting sector (i.e., the core of the club, and the basis for its prestige) at a sub-optimal level.

I'm not sure that is true, the levels of sponsorship certainly increased under Woodward, and if you think United's appeal has lessened, try applying for a season ticket. Every time we change managers we feature on the front page as well as the sports page, on the main news as well as the sports news, it almost if any United player even 'f**ts' in the street, its headline news.

The silverware may have been in short supply recently, but the interest in United, from our own fans and even the ABU's is still going strong, and lots of sponsors want a slice of the pie!

 

[Adnan]

You could look at it another way, that Ed Woodward was JP Morgans 'inside man' charged with making sure the bank got its money back for the leveraging loan (£0.8B) allocated to the Glazers. Doesn't mean the Glazers adored him, but they did need to tolerate him, and he was quite good at rounding up high paying sponsorships although sh** at transfers.

The Glazers could've still tolerated him without allowing him to directly run the football side of the club. What was stopping the Glazers from appointing a football administrator/Sporting director to better plan the football strategy at the club?

The truth is the Glazers didn't care and allowed things to decay to such a level where we were burning through ridiculous amounts of money, all while they happily took their dividends.

 

[Zen86]

The Glazers could've still tolerated him without allowing him to directly run the football side of the club. What was stopping the Glazers from appointing a football administrator/Sporting director to better plan the football strategy at the club?

The truth is the Glazers didn't care and allowed things to decay to such a level where we were burning through ridiculous amounts of money, all while they happily took their dividends.

Woodward being at the helm could have been part of the deal for all we know.

 

[stefan92]

I'm not sure that is true, the levels of sponsorship certainly increased under Woodward, and if you think United's appeal has lessened, try applying for a season ticket.

Football business as a whole grew massively, when you look at that in relation it looks quite bad for United
https://www.statista.com/statistics/254566/manchester-united-revenue-from-kit-sponsorship/
https://www.statista.com/statistics...-sponsorships-of-the-barclays-premier-league/

In 2009 United got 19% of the total PL kit sponsorship revenue, in 2022 it's only 13%

 

[Tigersam]

He will be given time. Everyone knows that he took over a shit show

Will he though? Obviously I don't know the exact details of his contract, but all previous post-SAF post-holders have had the clause "get-top-4-or-else" so why should EtH be any different?Furthermore, he was happy to ask (and get) big money for Casemiro and Anthony when things went a bit pear shaped in August, I bet EtH told the hierarchy that with those players on-board he would achieve qualification for the 2023 CL.

I think the position of United as regards top-4 (or progression via the Europa Cup) has taken on greater significance in the last few weeks too, Man United absolutely have to be playing in the top competition and the likelyhood of that happening in 2023 (or not) will have a bearing on the valuation of the club and whether a sale happens quickly, or slowly, or not at all.

 

[JustinC00]

I guess he will be blamed for penaldo's woeful world cup for only giving him 16 starts and 1000 minutes which wasn't enough time for penaldo to get in top form

Meanwhile you got Rashford and Bruno both having a shout for player of the tournament so far.

 

[AltiUn]

I guess he will be blamed for penaldo's woeful world cup for only giving him 16 starts and 1000 minutes which wasn't enough time for penaldo to get in top form

Meanwhile you got Rashford and Bruno both having a shout for player of the tournament so far.

No one's gonna blame him at all, everyone with a working pair of eyes can see he's washed.

 

[SAF is the GOAT]

Come on Erik, get this bums to back you and the team

 

[TheReligion]

Will he though? Obviously I don't know the exact details of his contract, but all previous post-SAF post-holders have had the clause "get-top-4-or-else" so why should EtH be any different?Furthermore, he was happy to ask (and get) big money for Casemiro and Anthony when things went a bit pear shaped in August, I bet EtH told the hierarchy that with those players on-board he would achieve qualification for the 2023 CL.

I think the position of United as regards top-4 (or progression via the Europa Cup) has taken on greater significance in the last few weeks too, Man United absolutely have to be playing in the top competition and the likelyhood of that happening in 2023 (or not) will have a bearing on the valuation of the club and whether a sale happens quickly, or slowly, or not at all.

Nah you’re wrong on Casemiro (probably Antony too).

Its been widely reported United has been in talks with Casemiro for months. Neither were a ‘panic’ signing as being made out.

 

[Escobar]

It is great to see so many United players having great games at the World Cup. Just hope they come back fit

 

[SAF is the GOAT]

That's my manager!

 

[TheGame]

Cristiano Ronaldo never told me he wanted to leave Man Utd, says Erik ten Hag https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/63922456

 

[BorisManUtd]

Ten Hag will be glad that United trio from Brazil will be coming back earlier than expected. Casemiro is crucial for us, Fred needed with number of games to be played and Antony was I think very important for our general play prior to injury.

 

[Tigersam]

Are Utd not worried that after tonight his country might come calling?

 

[Skills]

Are Utd not worried that after tonight his country might come calling?

No

 

[TheReligion]

Are Utd not worried that after tonight his country might come calling?

Are you not worried Arteta might get the Spain job?

 

[Stadjer]

Are Utd not worried that after tonight his country might come calling?

Koeman will take over. So no. Not worried at all. Most likely the KNVB would go for Bosz if they needed someone now.

 

[Gazza]

Cristiano Ronaldo never told me he wanted to leave Man Utd, says Erik ten Hag https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/63922456

I know they're only quotes, but how a manager deals with the media and how he chooses to frame a discussion are both important. It feels like his answers are always perfectly pitched, avoiding traps and refusing to set any for himself, it's hard to believe that communication in the press was one of his purported weaknesses when he came here.

In short, I love this man.

 

[Greck]

Are Utd not worried that after tonight his country might come calling?

Be honest. You kind of hope that happens.

 

[Asleepdemand]

That kind of answers that i expected. He is our boss

 

[Adam-Utd]

I know they're only quotes, but how a manager deals with the media and how he chooses to frame a discussion are both important. It feels like his answers are always perfectly pitched, avoiding traps and refusing to set any for himself, it's hard to believe that communication in the press was one of his purported weaknesses when he came here.

In short, I love this man.

Agreed. He's played it as perfect as possible.

No anger, no bitterness, no sniping back at him. Respectful but forward thinking.

ETH really is the right man for us.