Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[Skills]

The football may not have been pretty yesterday but it’s nonsense to suggest it’s like that all season. We’ve played good stuff in patches, most enjoyable since fergie in my opinion.
people need to calm down, there are no quick fixes, the job has just begun

We've been stale for the most part. Leicester, Southampton & the EL were a snooze

 

[avgp_1]

It's is the same approach we have had in our games since Brentford. A slightly low defensive line with a high forward press but it has meant we have ceded control in midfield in all our games bar Leicester.

Our high press was nullified quite easily and City had tons of space to do their thing with having our FBs pinned just like Arsenal did. Unlike Arsenal they have better players to make the overloads count and make the decisive plays with their #8s who can find the pockets and quite frankly can just about pick any pass. Eriksen and McT quite simply overwhelmed and outnumbered.

If we have to play progressive we can't play with a deeper backline and cede that amount of territory to quality opposition. Otherwise commit to a low block and have numbers to cover in front of them. This half in approach is asking for too much

 

[mctrials23]

We are still making too many basic errors like not tracking runs, not putting in the effort at the start of games to establish ourselves and put the opposition on the back foot or at least match their intensity.

The massive gap between league games probably didn't help yesterdays performance but we have a lot of work still to do. EtH needs time but we need to start seeing these players meeting him half way and putting in the work. We are still really static on the ball. Fernandes is still doubling down on the low percentage passes when we are under the kosh instead of calming the team down and trying to get a bit of possession under our belts. Rashford still looks like he thinks he billy big bollocks as he strolls around after losing the ball. McTominay is still a very poor decision maker and takes far too long to make the right decision if he even does.

I still think we will compete for top 4 if we see steady progress but I think that will be as a result of other teams shakyness rather than our excellence.

 

[Borys]

He made a bad judgement (can't believe some think adapting a more conservative setup is a wrong thing to do because we want to move away from "reactionary" approach). I don't care really, we will only have a few games like that in a season and obviously we're nowhere close to compete with CL trophy pretenders.

Excited to see how he forms the team in the coming fixtures. I feel almost indifferent after losing to Pep (it's a coping mechanism after CL finals vs Barca thrashed me).

 

[Stacks]

He was absolutely correct to setup the way he did. Because we're trying to evolve as a football team and not carry on with the reactive approach we've seen in prior years where we've made no attempt from the get-go to play through the midfield. And hence have ceded control to the opposition and got some favourable results, which imo built up a false sense of security among many fans when it was clear for me to see that our approach to the game wasn't sustainable.

But over the long-term, the tactics of Mourinho and Ole have only contributed to us regressing as a football team, and there's going to be teething problems under EtH when he's clearly attempting to transition from a reactive approach to a more proactive one. We can't carry on playing McFred together if we have any ambitions of evolving as a team. And when you attempt to evolve as a football team, then there's going to be teething problems along the way where certain deficiencies will clearly be exposed. And it should make it easier to identify which players are capable of contributing in a more dominating approach and which ones are not. So for me, the result today was very disappointing but it's part of the learning curve towards becoming a more dominant team.

It's going to take time but I'm more confident now after the 6-3 loss than I ever was under Ole and Mourinho when they won at City. And the reason for that is simply down to how we were approaching games. And if you're Man Utd and approach games by ceding control from the get-go, then we aren't going to challenge any time soon until we change our mindset. And with ten Hag we will look to evolve into a proactive attacking team, but it's going to take time and patience. City spent over £200m on players in Guardiola first season at the club and another £285m in Guardiola's second season at the club. This is what we're up against and it's going to take time and patience to become competitive with a club like City who are bank rolled by a nation state.

Van Gaal took over from Moyes and didn't take long to get us playing his style although it was boring as hell. We also have a bunch of new players who barely played under Ole and Jose.

 

[evil_geko]

After spending over 200m if there are no expectations except playing pretty football then United are deservedly in the wilderness … The football isn’t pretty either so the situation is actually worse.

You can't make so many new players click immediately ffs, this isn't FIFA.

 

[golden_blunder]

Van Gaal took over from Moyes and didn't take long to get us playing his style although it was boring as hell. We also have a bunch of new players who barely played under Ole and Jose.

It’s not hard to tell players don’t cross the halfway line and always pass backwards or sideways.

 

[pocco]

In my opinion I think ETH has to completely scrap the way he is trying to set us up at the moment. It looks to me that we're a poor mix of a team that wants to defend deep, hit in quick transitions with plenty of long balls over the top, and work crossing opportunities as a primary focus for attacking.

Even after the Arsenal game, I said it was a good result but I was concerned at how we set up to let the opposition dominate the ball and look for fast transitions. In my opinion this isn't a long term plan that will get us anywhere at all. We sometimes have glimpses of decent football in possession but we need to be really drilled into becoming a team that can dominate the ball, provide good movement off the ball and options to every player for passes. How often do you watch our players look completely isolated, particularly our wingers? This isn't normal for a team that is looking to dominate possession. Therefore, I believe that some of our issues are tactical. The ease with which we are forced into turnovers is incredible, you won't see many other teams look so lost vs City as we do. This is because they are so well versed in keeping the ball against lesser teams, that when they play City and do get fleeting moments of possession, they use it much better through instinct and instruction. Yesterday it felt like we would just about survive a prolonged City attack, get the ball back, then give it straight back to them to come again. If anybody wonders why we are a team that inexplicably ships lots of goals, this is why. It's only exacerbated by our defending and crap midfield cover.

And here is why I think we get rolled over by teams like City, because it isn't instinctive for us to be in possession, provide options for each other or just play sensible passes when the game calls for it. Because we are constantly looking for long balls or to feed it to the winger and everybody start moving to the box for a cross. We play ridiculous passes straight to the opposition when we need to keep the ball. I could go on about the issues I see with our team, but the alarm bells have been ringing for me since the first game. And before anybody says otherwise, I was happy with us appointing ETH. I have no agenda but will call a spade a spade.

Another issue is our pressing. But that's another discussion and this post will turn into an essay. But let's say that the best teams are all good at either pressing or keeping possession (or both). We do neither. That is a problem.

 

[Adnan]

Van Gaal took over from Moyes and didn't take long to get us playing his style although it was boring as hell. We also have a bunch of new players who barely played under Ole and Jose.

Van Gaal took over from Moyes and implemented horizontal positional play with the absence of a off the ball pressing game. So like I said in my post, his methods were from a bygone era.

7 of the 11 players that started the game yesterday either played under Mourinho or Ole.

 

[Borys]

It's is the same approach we have had in our games since Brentford. A slightly low defensive line with a high forward press but it has meant we have ceded control in midfield in all our games bar Leicester.

Our high press was nullified quite easily and City had tons of space to do their thing with having our FBs pinned just like Arsenal did. Unlike Arsenal they have better players to make the overloads count and make the decisive plays with their #8s who can find the pockets and quite frankly can just about pick any pass. Eriksen and McT quite simply overwhelmed and outnumbered.

If we have to play progressive we can't play with a deeper backline and cede that amount of territory to quality opposition. Otherwise commit to a low block and have numbers to cover in front of them. This half in approach is asking for too much

In my opinion I think ETH has to completely scrap the way he is trying to set us up at the moment. It looks to me that we're a poor mix of a team that wants to defend deep, hit in quick transitions with plenty of long balls over the top, and work crossing opportunities as a primary focus for attacking.

Even after the Arsenal game, I said it was a good result but I was concerned at how we set up to let the opposition dominate the ball and look for fast transitions. In my opinion this isn't a long term plan that will get us anywhere at all. We sometimes have glimpses of decent football in possession but we need to be really drilled into becoming a team that can dominate the ball, provide good movement off the ball and options to every player for passes. How often do you watch our players look completely isolated, particularly our wingers? This isn't normal for a team that is looking to dominate possession. Therefore, I believe that some of our issues are tactical. The ease with which we are forced into turnovers is incredible, you won't see many other teams look so lost vs City as we do. This is because they are so well versed in keeping the ball against lesser teams, that when they play City and do get fleeting moments of possession, they use it much better through instinct and instruction.

And here is why I think we get rolled over by teams like City, because it isn't instinctive for us to be in possession, provide options for each other or just play sensible passes when the game calls for it. Because we are constantly looking for long balls or to feed it to the winger and everybody start moving to the box for a cross. We play ridiculous passes straight to the opposition when we need to keep the ball. I could go on about the issues I see with our team, but the alarm bells have been ringing for me since the first game. And before anybody says otherwise, I was happy with us appointing ETH. I have no agenda but will call a spade a spade.

Good posts. I do think we ended up with this sytem by an accident- the experiment with single DM didn't work so ETH moved Eriksen to midfield two and somehow it turned out effective (as the rest has fallen into place naturally). This was always an approach which we would use to get some momentum (until the first bad result), so I am not that worried about his lack of actions and changes YET. But I hope we will start building a team now that the worst set of fixtures is now behind us.

 

[pocco]

You can't make so many new players click immediately ffs, this isn't FIFA.

Whilst this is true, you can see the shape of the team and the movement/positioning of players and recognise that we are tactically not a team being set up to dominate possession. If you watch any of Pep's teams or any other good possession based side, you can quickly see the difference in shape and how players position themselves off the ball to see the difference.

 

[ilrm]

You can't make so many new players click immediately ffs, this isn't FIFA.

I’m talking about realistic expectations such as being tactically flexible so as to not get turned over 6-3 (6-1 if we’re being honest) in a derby. Realistic expectations like at least being a fighter for top-4 till the end of the season. Realistic expectations like at least having one good cup run out of 3 cups. EtH has a long way to go.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Does he survive this result at Real Madrid?

Well, Real wouldn't let their club be run into the ground for 3.5 years under Ole and Rangnick.

ETH has an absolutely massive job on his hands and it's going to require time and patience. Ole left a sorry state for the next manager, unfortunately. Also, 6 months of Ralf wasn't exactly great either.

 

[Sarni]

I think Mourinho got thumped by Barcelona by fine the first time he faced them as Real manager.

5-0 indeed. That was at the time when Barca would casually destroy them, think they lost 2-6 to them at Bernabeu several months prior but somehow the 5-0 got more publicity.

 

[Stacks]

Van Gaal took over from Moyes and implemented horizontal positional play with the absence of a off the ball pressing game. So like I said in my post, his methods were from a bygone era.

7 of the 11 players that started the game yesterday either played under Mourinho or Ole.

Sancho had ONE SEASON under ole only and was in and out of the team. Everyone was raving about how McTom had turned a corner 5 mins ago. So you telling me Ole has changed Verane in just 1 year in which he barely played too? Who exactly are the players that Jose and Ole affected that should make it hard to train them how to play football? Antony? Eriksen? Martinez? Bruno?

 

[pocco]

Good posts. I do think we ended up with this sytem by an accident- the experiment with single DM didn't work so ETH moved Eriksen to midfield two and somehow it turned out effective (as the rest has fallen into place naturally). This was always an approach which we would use to get some momentum (until the first bad result), so I am not that worried about his lack of actions and changes YET. But I hope we will start building a team now that the worst set of fixtures is now behind us.

Our midfield is still a massive problem, and the more I think about how it is solved, the more I think Bruno's inclusion is just a big problem. Even individually he isn't offering anything these days, but to be affording a player the luxury that Bruno has at the sacrifice of midfield stability just isn't sustainable. The sort of freedom should only be given the a player that is either very good at keeping possession and/or carrying the ball, extremely creative or offers intelligent defending to support our midfield. Bruno is none of that. For a while he was creative, but his impact has lessened so much that the cons now outweigh the pros for me. A midfield 3 of Casemiro, Fred & Eriksen (or McTominay for any of them) looks for more balanced and solid than any involving Bruno.

 

[Adnan]

Sancho had ONE SEASON under ole only and was in and out of the team. Everyone was raving about how McTom had turned a corner 5 mins ago. So you telling me Ole has changed Verane in just 1 year in which he barely played too? Who exactly are the players that Jose and Ole affected that should make it hard to train them how to play football? Antony? Eriksen? Martinez? Bruno?

No, I'm saying that the team has been coached to play a brand of football for many years now that doesn't correlate to the modern day reality when it comes to implementing a high intensity brand of football in a vertical axis. And seven of those players who started the game yesterday have been coached by either Mourinho and Ole.

Ole didn't change Varane or Sancho but rather brought them into a team which hadn't been able to transition successfully into a high energy team with and without the ball.

I very much doubt ten Hag would've even signed Sancho and Bruno because it made no sense to sign either player with the options that were already available at the time. So these are players he has to utilise whilst navigating his way through the season.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

Who is stating stuff like that? I haven't seen anybody post something like that after todays game (in this thread). What people are talking about was maybe a more defensive approach. You know, the kind of approach our very own manager made use of against both Arsenal and Liverpool to good success. Would there be a guarantee of a different outcome? Surely not, but the odds might have been a little different. We might haven't lost in a way, that sure bruised a few souls today.

Look at some of the reactions since ten Hag took over. There's a section of this fanbase that clearly expected him to come in and have us dominating teams with no room for error. It's an unrealistic expectation. ten Hag inherited an absolute mess and he hasn't got all his pieces yet to play the football he wants to play. And I'm seeing posts saying that he's learned nothing from Brentford which is complete bollocks. Anyone with eyes can see that our approach to playing out from the back has changed since then. Also, yeah it isn't good conceding six goals to our local rivals but I honestly doubt we're the only top six side City will put six past this season. Their attack is scary good.

As I've said, ten Hag got it wrong yesterday but there's no reason to panic. He tried a different approach to Arsenal and Liverpool and it backfired. I'm sure he'll learn from it and we'll move forward.

 

[Adam-Utd]

They really did.

First half we were awful on the ball. ETH said it himself.

Us being awful on the ball doesn't mean City won the game technically. They didn't pass us to death like theyve done in the past, they beat us with pure running power.

KDB, Grealish, Foden and Haaland just sprinted harder and wanted it more. The amount of times they charged directly through midfield without being contested, they 3rd man runs through defence inside and outside the fullbacks etc.

It's quite obvious Eriksen doesn't have the legs anymore to do the defensive role, Fernandes has always been a passenger too. That was a clear big weakness in the match.

 

[romufc]

This result has been coming, Leicester dominated us in the last 30 mins, they are bottom.

Southampton dominated us for large parts of the game, they are near the bottom.

We beat Arsenal and Liverpool on a low block system, if we went down in either of the games, the results would have been similar really.

Ten Hag has done OK but the improvement isn't much.

The fight, spirit was non existent.

The pressing was non existent. Ten Hag is going to have to learn quick.

 

[Marwood]

Us being awful on the ball doesn't mean City won the game technically. They didn't pass us to death like theyve done in the past, they beat us with pure running power.

KDB, Grealish, Foden and Haaland just sprinted harder and wanted it more. The amount of times they charged directly through midfield without being contested, they 3rd man runs through defence inside and outside the fullbacks etc.

It's quite obvious Eriksen doesn't have the legs anymore to do the defensive role, Fernandes has always been a passenger too. That was a clear big weakness in the match.

Well I think its both technically and physically and its impossible to say just one or the other lost us the game. We could have physically matched them but if you keep giving them the ball back its still going to end in a defeat.

But I always think when playing the best you have to look after the ball when you get chance.

If you don't it leads to all sorts of problems. One of them being gassing out whilst the opposition, City in this case, get to keep plenty in the tank.

 

[Skills]

This result has been coming, Leicester dominated us in the last 30 mins, they are bottom.

Southampton dominated us for large parts of the game, they are near the bottom.

We beat Arsenal and Liverpool on a low block system, if we went down in either of the games, the results would have been similar really.

Ten Hag has done OK but the improvement isn't much.

The fight, spirit was non existent.

The pressing was non existent. Ten Hag is going to have to learn quick.

Yeah if Liverpool or Arsenal took the lead at any point at Old Trafford we would've been destroyed. Like we were by Brentford and City.

 

[Robbie Boy]

This result has been coming, Leicester dominated us in the last 30 mins, they are bottom.

Southampton dominated us for large parts of the game, they are near the bottom.

We beat Arsenal and Liverpool on a low block system, if we went down in either of the games, the results would have been similar really.

Ten Hag has done OK but the improvement isn't much.

The fight, spirit was non existent.

The pressing was non existent. Ten Hag is going to have to learn quick.

I hope you'll be giving him your unwavering patience, like you gave Ole.

 

[Real Name]

Yeah if Liverpool or Arsenal took the lead at any point at Old Trafford we would've been destroyed. Like we were by Brentford and City.

Those were completely different games. We were up for it against Arsenal and Liverpool. Not so much yesterday.

 

[Stacks]

Are we the first team to spend 200million in a summer window and get walloped by four goals twice in our opening round of games?

I will judge more harshly when we embed Casemeiro, get Martial back and have decided on our best midfield trio.

 

[Real Name]

The football may not have been pretty yesterday but it’s nonsense to suggest it’s like that all season. We’ve played good stuff in patches, most enjoyable since fergie in my opinion.
people need to calm down, there are no quick fixes, the job has just begun

It's late for all this. He needs to go posts are already creeping in. Maybe not literally but in time. Madness really.
Suddenly our wins are flukes, we scrapped them, and we would get steamrolled if we conceded first in those. Or we were stale.

Where's the patience in a modern day fan nowadays..

There are even suggestions he shouldn't survive a defeat like that.

 

[romufc]

I hope you'll be giving him your unwavering patience, like you gave Ole.

100% I think Ten Hag is the man for us, I expected such results to come in the first 6 months of his reign.

I really like Ten Hag and I am going to back the manager, I want to see how he can transform us, this does not mean I cannot criticise when we get battered by City.

 

[Revaulx]

1he amount of "fans" who wanted ten Hag to failed just to say I told you so, or prefer Poch is outstanding.

In what way is it outstanding? Are you surprised that it’s so many, or so few?

They certainly exist, but as far as I can tell their numbers are insignificant. It would be useful if you could compile and post a list.

 

[golden_blunder]

It's late for all this. He needs to go posts are already creeping in. Maybe not literally but in time. Madness really.
Suddenly our wins are flukes, we scrapped them, and we would get steamrolled if we conceded first in those. Or we were stale.

Where's the patience in a modern day fan nowadays..

There are even suggestions he shouldn't survive a defeat like that.

There’s no patience in sport anymore. Society is changing for the worse. City, possible the best team in the world have us a mauling. It’s neither a surprise or a moment that needs knee jerk reactions

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

I've got extreme faith in ETH, but we haven't played well this season. Our GD is -3 and we've conceded 14 goals. There were some positives in that 2nd half vs City. Yes they eased off, but we circulated the ball better that half than any prior game IMO.

I want to see us start pressing high. We don't press high at all. Even vs City today, we set up a high line, but didn't really press them. It doesn't change the result, but we have to start somewhere.

 

[r0663664]

ETH should start realising some of the players will be phased out of the starting XI. We should start finding buyers for Sancho, Fernandez, Rashford, Maguire, AWB, De Gea and etc. Take whatever market gives and reinvest into the squad and promote youth players. These are wrong profile players bought by previous managers, they should still attractive to mid tier team. This is minimally a 3 years rebuilt. I have confidence that after his first year, he knows what type of players we need.

 

[Tony247]

We need a prolific goal scorer. Be it a winger, L/R striker or CF. But someone whom entire team can count upon match after match. When a team knows there is a game changer walking out with them on the field it instills a different level of confidence while playing. Defenders defend better, midfield attack better. Without a goal scorer everything these players do is just a survival game. It doesn't matter much if you field one DM or two. Goal scorers win you matches and we need one desparately, and we need a long term plan for it.

 

[Robbie Boy]

100% I think Ten Hag is the man for us, I expected such results to come in the first 6 months of his reign.

I really like Ten Hag and I am going to back the manager, I want to see how he can transform us, this does not mean I cannot criticise when we get battered by City.

There has been some belters on here since yesterday tbh.

Ultimately, I predicted a 5th to 7th place finish with some very erratic results. So far, that's exactly what we have seen. I still believe we'll finish around those places, maybe 4th place at best, if we can put a run together, but it's really going to be a very hit-and-miss season. It's clear that some of these players don't fit ETH's style of play, and he has to find a way to make do with what he has until next summer.

We have a lot of games this month, so hopefully going into November we start to really see a cohesive playing style. This is all going to require time and patience, unfortunately.

 

[Borys]

Our midfield is still a massive problem, and the more I think about how it is solved, the more I think Bruno's inclusion is just a big problem. Even individually he isn't offering anything these days, but to be affording a player the luxury that Bruno has at the sacrifice of midfield stability just isn't sustainable. The sort of freedom should only be given the a player that is either very good at keeping possession and/or carrying the ball, extremely creative or offers intelligent defending to support our midfield. Bruno is none of that. For a while he was creative, but his impact has lessened so much that the cons now outweigh the pros for me. A midfield 3 of Casemiro, Fred & Eriksen (or McTominay for any of them) looks for more balanced and solid than any involving Bruno.

Indeed, midfield is the problem, and yes, big part of that is down to Bruno. It's actually a Catch 22.
You can only put him in the team in one position, no10 close to the goal. That means you effectively play midfield two, so always give away control in central areas. Because the midfield is weak off/on the ball, you get less chances for possession turnover/ quick ball progression, and everything relies on Bruno to have his "moment". Bruno has those moments and look like the only player creating goal scroring chances, but there is a lot of sacrificies on the way which IMO like you said "cons now outweigh the pros". We would be a better team if we moved to a more traditional 3 man midfield, more structured, more balanced. It's not like we lose one attacker because in 4-3-3 Eriksen gets more chances to move forward, and wingers get more support as well.
I believe Ten Hag wanted to get some momentum and decided against any tactical/personnel changes. It was a short term solution which worked quite well in the end (we were never getting any points vs City), but now it's the time to find for solutions rather than temporary stop-gaps.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

There has been some belters on here since yesterday tbh.

Ultimately, I predicted a 5th to 7th place finish with some very erratic results. So far, that's exactly what we have seen. I still believe we'll finish around those places, maybe 4th place at best, if we can put a run together, but it's really going to be a very hit-and-miss season. It's clear that some of these players don't fit ETH's style of play, and he has to find a way to make do with what he has until next summer.

We have a lot of games this month, so hopefully going into November we start to really see a cohesive playing style. This is all going to require time and patience, unfortunately.

Will the board back him with another 200 mil next summer?

I'm not sure they will unfortunately. Didn't Murtough or Arnold already hint less would be spent next summer and this summer was an anomaly?

 

[Idxomer]

I really think he needs to play 3 in midfield whose best position is to play there. No team could've kept getting with the trio we started in the last 5 games. Those 15 minutes in the 2nd half against Arsenal when they were running through our midfield like it's not there was a huge warning sign. City did the same yesterday but their quality insured they punish us much more than Arsenal and have a more extended period of dominance.

Sancho and Rashford shouldn't also be starting together, they are just too low energy and should be competing for the same position which maybe gives one of them a push to show more intensity in games.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Will the board back him with another 200 mil next summer?

I'm not sure they will unfortunately. Didn't Murtough or Arnold already hint less would be spent next summer and this summer was an anomaly?

If he isn't going to be backed properly, then he's likely to fail.

I still think some - not all - of our underperformimg players will settle in his system, and hopefully he can bring through one or two from the youth team.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

If he isn't going to be backed properly, then he's likely to fail.

I still think some - not all - of our underperformimg players will settle in his system, and hopefully he can bring through one or two from the youth team.

Hopefully, but we might just be cursed.

I'd try and uproot the squad even more next summer if possible. I'd be very tempted to sell off players like Bruno and Sancho.

We've got a lot of work to do. Our last 2 managers wasted far too much money.

 

[Flying_Heckfish]

There has been some belters on here since yesterday tbh.

Ultimately, I predicted a 5th to 7th place finish with some very erratic results. So far, that's exactly what we have seen. I still believe we'll finish around those places, maybe 4th place at best, if we can put a run together, but it's really going to be a very hit-and-miss season. It's clear that some of these players don't fit ETH's style of play, and he has to find a way to make do with what he has until next summer.

We have a lot of games this month, so hopefully going into November we start to really see a cohesive playing style. This is all going to require time and patience, unfortunately.

This is it, he's trying to turn a supertanker around, it's gonna take time. We don't have the luxury of signing a whole new team for him in one go, we have to build (through coaching players as well) bit by bit.

 

[Tom Van Persie]