Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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Puzzled that anyone could argue that Ten Hag is right to leave Ronaldo out because he doesnt fit the pressing game. What pressing game? There was none today. Ten Hag has done nothing other than disrespect Ronnie today.
Ronaldo presses as much, if not more, than Rashford

Ronaldo has been awful this season when on the pitch. His legs have truly gone now. Fans need to move on. He's been a tremendous player, one of the best of all time, but his involvement today wouldn't have changed anything.
 
It doesn't make for a good example because you are comparing the peak of a manager with the acclimatation of an other one with his team. It makes no common sense and that's why I made the point about the timing of each observations. In fact we don't need to go to SAF, the same applied Guardiola and Klopp. It would make no sense to use Guardiola's peak with City and purposely ignore that his first season was often criticized for naivety.

And the idea that it doesn't matter to much to you makes you reference even worse because you essentially admits that you don't care about context.
I think, you are reading too much into my statement. Some people on here said, that tactics don't matter and that tactics don't have to be adjusted because we are supposed to play a different way. That is why I reacted saying even Fergie adapted in certain games. And if you say, Fergie didn't do it in his early days, than that doesn't make it right, he then just made the same mistake. And I am sure nobody here is expecting him to throw all his ideas away for one game, but today he didn't seem to adjust to the opponent at all. And we paid for it. It can happen, early days for sure.

There’s some absolutely idiot takes in here every time we drop points.

Have to be trolls or at the very least not United fans. Nowhere to be seen when winning. Sad acts.
Maybe lets not start with that kind of talk again. Didn't really help back then with another manager, won't really help here. Some people might be more critical than others, lets not make it personal if not needed.

Yes, he moved to that often pragmatic approach when he brought Queiroz which is nearly 2 decades into his career at United. In a vaccum I get your point but we are not in a vaccum, SAF wasn't, ETH isn't, no one is. For ETH there are two important things that he needs to do in these early days, instill his mentality into as many players as possible and understand which players can't follow his instructions and don't share his mentality. Going the pragmatic way that early has a cost that @Adnan has mentioned in his post and it's highly questionable whether ETH should pay it. Personally I would tell him to not pay it, this season we need to know what exactly we have and don't have outside of the "let's not lose that game" mentality.
And a game like today could just as well used to learn about the capabilities of our players in a high pressure game against a superior opponent. Don't really understand, what exactly it is, what you are defending. It isn't like we tried to press very decisively or anything. It was a mishmash some trying to pressure and some stepping back. I guess, the criticism would be different, had we tried a high line and an actual press but we didn't.

A manager is here to win games but he needs to win them long term and they need to lead to trophies. There is little point for United or ETH to sabotage your midterm position for short term results.
How does one win long term ^^ ? I guess I know what you mean, but come on, you act as if we are asking him to throw all his materials out of a window and do 2-hour-course in Mourinho'ism. Just be more reserved, use one out of Eriksen and Bruno to add Fred or Casemiro, bring Elanga from the start to add some legs. If it doesn't work out, he could still move to what he started with.

Okay. But how do you know whether a set of players are able to play a certain way against a certain level of opposition? Aren't you supposed to put them in that situation? Or do you think that the manager should not try to get that information and assume that he definitely know the players inside out and decrete that they are unable to do it beforehand?
How do you know, they are not :) ?

edit: might have misunderstood your point. I guess you are right, players need to be put in certain situations to evaluate them. I think though, ETH could have done it in a way today, that wasn't so "blunt". But I guess, the two of us estimate the impact of certain changes in approach differently.
 
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He's not trying to though. Bruno & Eriksen have always been high risk and low retention players. You obviously need someone like that in your team (Guardiola gives De Bruyne a huge license to lose the ball), but you can't have the two of them in your midfield especially.

On top of that McTominay has always struggled to get on the ball enough to help you recycle and move the ball around. So now you've got a mid 3 of 2 players who don't retain possession, and one who doesn't like to get on the ball.

That's not to say you can't play Eriksen and Bruno together, but they can't be in your midfield 3. One of them needs to occupy one of the forward positions if you want them playing.

What you say only makes sense if players are given instructions and managers can't try to teach them a new approach. And it's not as if right now, he has a lot of quality options that are ready for possession football, so today the best course of action is to try to change the players that we actually have.
 
Well I would say that you want to give them instructions and see how they handle them against City. And the biggest issue wasn't that we were defensively weak but that we were technically weak, that we were weak in possession and totally unable to keep the ball, recycle it and put City under pressure with any sort of consistency.

I know how we can paper over the cracks when it comes to defending, I know that it's a weakness but if I was in ETH's shoes I would like to know if we can be dominant with the ball, if we can use possession and ball recycling as a defensive tool because that aspect of the game is also crucial when it comes to scoring and creating attacking pressure.

In a way we are looking at things from opposite sides.

Your never going to be technically dominant against this city side though. Against these teams you need to get to half time without conceding, stay in the game and hope to hit them on the break or with moments of magic. We were never ever ever going to out play city right now. We’re so far off that if ETH thought for one minute that could happen, he’s in for a shock .

only Fulham, bournemouth, Nottingham and leicester have conceding more goals than us this season (two of them are rock bottom in the table) Our ability to lose games by big margains is a massive red flat at the moment which needs to be addressed. I understand it’s not the long term game we want or the fun football we want to see being played.. but we can’t concede this many goals. Last season it was our downfall and it will be this season again.
 
How do you get your philosophy across then? Only when you play against Bournemouth? What sort of message does this send to players, the best teams rarely compromise their style of play.

People are going mental after 7 games, 3 of which have been played against teams either fighting for the title or top 4, acting as if ETH has been here for years, it’s ridiculous.

I was listening to Ten Hag's post game press conference, where he blames the players for their lack of belief -- in game where the average Redcafe poster can see the flaws in the setup. Do you think the players wouldn't know they should be set up more conservatively? Do they try to say anything? Does ETG listen? Giving up 6 goals isn't going to make the players think the manager knows what he's doing. Or maybe they just will lose more faith in their teammates. It's harmful.

Does Ten Hag have a coaching staff? Or is this all just Ten Hag's long term vision on display no matter what?
 
Puzzled that anyone could argue that Ten Hag is right to leave Ronaldo out because he doesnt fit the pressing game. What pressing game? There was none today. Ten Hag has done nothing other than disrespect Ronnie today.
Ronaldo presses as much, if not more, than Rashford

Ronaldo isn't playing because he's a bit shit these days though I do agree there's not much difference between him and Rashford.
 
Your never going to be technically dominant against this city side though. Against these teams you need to get to half time without conceding, stay in the game and hope to hit them on the break or with moments of magic. We were never ever ever going to out play city right now. We’re so far off that if ETH thought for one minute that could happen, he’s in for a shock .

only Fulham, bournemouth, Nottingham and leicester have conceding more goals than us this season (two of them are rock bottom in the table) Our ability to lose games by big margains is a massive red flat at the moment which needs to be addressed. I understand it’s not the long term game we want or the fun football we want to see being played.. but we can’t concede this many goals. Last season it was our downfall and it will be this season again.

But you want to know where you are, you want to know what your players have. Interestingly for me your defeatist stance strengthen the idea of trying to play your game and see what you have or don't because if you go the negative way and lose the game, you lost everything, you wasted an entire game out of cowardice.
 
But you want to know where you are, you want to know what your players have. Interestingly for me your defeatist stance strengthen the idea of trying to play your game and see what you have or don't because if you go the negative way and lose the game, you lost everything, you wasted an entire game out of cowardice.

this isn’t Sunday league, this is the best league on the planet playing against the best team in the world (arguably). Experiments are okay but we were never going to beat city with that midfield. We can’t afford to fall too far behind the top 4 but if we keep experimenting as you suggest, we will. No CL next season will be a disaster.
 
He's hardly played yet
I understand that, but his size and slowness is there for us to see early on, people go past him fairly easily. He is not a scholes type give it to the forwards (no shit) and hes definatly not a carrick either. Its a total waste of money and i pray he proves me wrong.

If we’d signed FDJ he would of started today. Every other signing made in the summer started today except this guy, who as I said before, is one of the best in his position.

i don’t think he was a planned out signing, I think as soon as they knew they couldn’t get FDJ they went and got him but it wasn’t plan A by any means. Not necessarily a panic buy but he wasn’t part of the original plan.

Doesn’t mean he can’t come good or be a massive player for us.
He was instead of Rabiot. His agent approached us after Rabiot deal fell through.
 
My bad then, watched from the tele which just showed frames of him sulking at the bench - but I see that might not be the full picture.
I'm curious what the correct expression would be sitting on the sidelines watching us in that game. Would it be better if he was texting? joking with people in the adjacent seats?
I remember Ronaldo's 2 footed tackle in a loss at City. Probably a good idea to leave him out, except something like that would have showed someone cared about the result....
 
this isn’t Sunday league, this is the best league on the planet playing against the best team in the world (arguably). Experiments are okay but we were never going to beat city with that midfield. We can’t afford to fall too far behind the top 4 but if we keep experimenting as you suggest, we will. No CL next season will be a disaster.

We don't play City every weeks and a game way to City is an expected loss. So your stance don't make much sense. It's not a game that you expect to win, it's not 3 expected points, if anything it's exactly the kind of game where you can and should take risk. The games that we need to win in order to make top 4 are the vast majority of games against teams that are outside of the top 5/6 in the league. A game against City at the Etihad is not where you play for top 4.
 
Lets face it Casemiro was not a good signing for 70 million pounds. I thought we would of learning our lesson of signing players 30+ coming to the end of their current club but obviously not. Caicedo, Gravenbach, wirtz, Rice, Guimarez, Lamar, Bellingham, Bissouma would of all been better options. Until we sort the midfield out I don't think we have any hope of competing whatsoever, the wingers are not getting proper service whatsoever. I hate to say it but don't think Bruno will work in a midfield trio, the whole midfield needs to be gutted and started again.
 
This is all very well in theory and whilst I agree that Ten Haag is more suited than Mourinho and Ole to pro active football, if the application is as we saw today then what exactly is the point? It’s all well and good saying you wanna be proactive and take control of games but there was feck all about that set up which suggested that.

Our players are spineless cnuts we know this, they’ll chuck the towel in at any sign of adversity so I know ten Haag has a tough job but …
We wanna control a game of football, you need your players as close to each other as possible. Our back line was dropping deep and eriksen and Bruno were trying to press high. Our front three were too far apart with Anthony and sancho far too wide. And if you’re away to Man City and want to control a game, you are not going to do it playing Scott Mctominay as a holding midfielder or rashford as a nine. It’s never gonna happen because neither are anywhere near good enough in those positions. He had better options on the bench to play this ‘proactive and controlling’ football but he didn’t pick ‘em because we won some games last month. You don’t just pick a team for the sake of it, you can still maintain an overall positive approach whilst factoring in the opposition. That wasn’t done today. Tactically today it was a complete mess.

And also being 4-0 down twice in the first six weeks of the season is not a good blueprint for wanting to be a proactive team in the front foot.
Tbh with you I never said the requirement was to control the game in possession against City. But we should look to go away to Man City and show some endeavour on the ball where we look to impose ourselves on the game to some extent. Because to evolve as a team we must look beyond one or two games and not revert to going into our shells when faced with a Man City or Liverpool away, like we've done for several years and accepted our underdog role in the game. Liverpool were thrashed 5-0 away to Man City in 2017, but it didn't deter Klopp from his ideals. Arteta at Arsenal was thrashed 5-0 by Man City at the start of last season but it didn't deter him from working towards his ideals and making Arsenal a more dominant team.

Klopp and Arteta are coaches who like ten Hag have a clear and defined way of playing the game and will look to coach their teams to show some endeavour on the ball. And sometimes when you're trying to coach/teach your players to play a more expansive game, teething problems will arise because training the brain to control zones positionally with and without the ball isn't straight forward. And along the way there will be times where things will go wrong, but for me it's important to carry on working towards playing a more dominant brand of football because it will likely imo lead to better performances in the long run and expose the weaker players to ten Hag from a physical, technical and mental POV.

In the past we've reverted to type and it's preserved the careers of a number of players who just aren't good enough. I think it's important to have a vision on how you want your team to play which will then expose the players who don't fit that vision. And when those players are exposed to a play-style which requires more from them both technically and physically, then the decision to either keep them or move them on is easier.
 
So beating Liverpool and Arsenal doesn’t prove he’s good enough, but losing to the best team in the world with the best striker in the world proves he’s not good enough?

The only reason Ole got a few results against City is dum luck.
They failed to score at least 5-6 100% chances each game.

Ive yet to see a manager as lucky as ole was.

If fergie had ole's luck as a manager he'd have a couple more cl medals to his name.
 
Well said.

We can chop & change at the sight if every half decent side. What we have learnt today are that some players m who currently occupy spaces in the first 11 won’t be there under EtH in the future.

So having learned that today, what do you propose we do the next time we play a top team away? Say, if we draw City away in the Cup this season? Do we ‘chop and change’, given that we have now learned that some of these players are not up to it? Or do we just ‘stick to the plan’ because we have an identity and hope for the best? If it is the former, it is interesting that it took today to learn that Scott McTominay or Bruno Fernandes are not adept at keeping the ball at the highest level, or that Marcus Rashford cannot hold it and find a teammate under pressure.

For me, there is nothing noble about how we set up today. It’s not even as if we went down swinging and ‘went out on our shield’ so to speak. We didn’t get a shot off in the first half. We barely got into the penalty box. We didn’t exactly sacrifice defensive solidity for the sake of some sort of attacking principles. We were just lost. In the context of putting a team out to get a result in a football match, it is difficult to argue we went about it the wrong way. @Adnan post would be more applicable IMO if we resembled Liverpool of a few years ago who had a brilliant attack but pre-Allisson and VDV, were open and poor at the back. Perhaps they would go down 4-3 and it would be worth it, pending improvement in the market which they subsequently got. However, our attacking approach was seemingly on lieu of capable attackers, let alone capable defenders. We’be barely managed a shot on target all season, even against teams like Leicester and Sherriff. Clearly we were not ready to just play City off the park. Our approach was irresponsible today. We were not even defiantly playing to our strengths. We were playing to our weaknesses.
 
Puzzled that anyone could argue that Ten Hag is right to leave Ronaldo out because he doesnt fit the pressing game. What pressing game? There was none today. Ten Hag has done nothing other than disrespect Ronnie today.
Ronaldo presses as much, if not more, than Rashford
That was like the least contentious part of today and the last thing we should have the manager second guessed on. Rashford has goals and assists this season from playing the cf position better than Ronaldo, Martial has 2 goals and an assist in a little over 1 hour of play. They also achieve it without needing the gameplan bent around them so we can actually win games when they don't play well.
 
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Strangely, I don't really care about losing this, even with that score. It's early of the season, and I'd take a pasting in a few games if we're improving in general. EtH has lots of brownie points for me to still believe in him. No time to over-analyze everything.
 
Ronaldo has been awful this season when on the pitch. His legs have truly gone now. Fans need to move on. He's been a tremendous player, one of the best of all time, but his involvement today wouldn't have changed anything.
And Rashford at #9 is the answer, is he?

Another awful performance from him.

I'll say it now, persistence with Sancho, Fernandes, Rashford and McTominay?

It will cost him his job.
 
But you want to know where you are, you want to know what your players have. Interestingly for me your defeatist stance strengthen the idea of trying to play your game and see what you have or don't because if you go the negative way and lose the game, you lost everything, you wasted an entire game out of cowardice.
Agree with this. The mentality of shutting up shop needs to go from this club. The manager can’t say trust the game plan only to abandon it v City imo. Test yourself and see where you are. We can play right v Leicester or big games at home every week and look good but we need to see where we are in the big games as well.
Let’s be honest, if we went to City and played well today we would be one of the best teams in Europe. That’s just not where we are at the minute
 
Tbh with you I never said the requirement was to control the game in possession against City. But we should look to go away to Man City and show some endeavour on the ball where we look to impose ourselves on the game to some extent. Because to evolve as a team we must look beyond one or two games and not revert to going into our shells when faced with a Man City or Liverpool away, like we've done for several years and accepted our underdog role in the game. Liverpool were thrashed 5-0 away to Man City in 2017, but it didn't deter Klopp from his ideals. Arteta at Arsenal was thrashed 5-0 by Man City at the start of last season but it didn't deter him from working towards his ideals and making Arsenal a more dominant team.

Klopp and Arteta are coaches who like ten Hag have a clear and defined way of playing the game and will look to coach their teams to show some endeavour on the ball. And sometimes when you're trying to coach/teach your players to play a more expansive game, teething problems will arise because training the brain to control zones positionally with and without the ball isn't straight forward. And along the way there will be times where things will go wrong, but for me it's important to carry on working towards playing a more dominant brand of football because it will likely imo lead to better performances in the long run and expose the weaker players to ten Hag from a physical, technical and mental POV.

In the past we've reverted to type and it's preserved the careers of a number of players who just aren't good enough. I think it's important to have a vision on how you want your team to play which will then expose the players who don't fit that vision. And when those players are exposed to a play-style which requires more from them both technically and physically, then the decision to either keep them or move them on is easier.
You are completely right. The question though is, should we really be as strict in a game against City when we didn't even manage to play expansive football against any of the other opponents this season? I get your point, and yes we shouldn't turn away from teething problems, but I argue that we wouldn't have done that (certainly not in a harmful way) had we adjusted at least a little today.
Even the most proactive manager will face situations from time to time where he has to adjust and get a bit more defensive. This should still be in line with the overall approach, sure, but at for me, I am not asking him to leave that line. But he didn't even get more defensive for his standards today. And that seems to be topic for some people.
 
9 matches is far more than enough time to actually start seeing what the manager is aiming for, which is the tactical plan he wants to implement and what's the actual target.

None of this is present at the moment. We play shit football, most of our wins came from mostly a defensive, counter attacking style as usual and when we're bad, we end up getting battered, badly.

I don't know why people are mixing criticizing him or saying he's getting a lot of things wrong with wanting him gone or writing him off. Blind support doesn't lead anywhere. He'll get his chance and he'll get this season and probably the next one as well regardless. Doesn't mean we shouldn't point the obvious : United have been as shit as they're used to be this season. Results and football played, nothing really has changed that much, and the worst thing for me ? I see zero signs of anything new implemented on the pitch or a system in work that I can look at and say "Yeah, results suck now but there're clearly new ideas being implemented on the pitch that with some time, work and new players, will get us somewhere". Nah, all I'm saying is the same old shit.
He has got some things wrong, criticism is fair for now, i am sure with time we will improve. Also, i cannot be a pessimist all time, we haven't been only shit this season. I will take these 4 wins from 7 in the league even if you cant. yeah, you should read this thread more then, if you think there aren't people who are saying he is not good enough or we have been served the same shit.
 
Some excellent posts by @JPRouve and @Adnan, and I think @sullydnl had some a while back (in terms of thread pages, anyway) as well. A bit of context and perspective!
Your never going to be technically dominant against this city side though. Against these teams you need to get to half time without conceding, stay in the game and hope to hit them on the break or with moments of magic.
It's rare that City lose that way though, so it's no more useful than what Ten Hag tried. As has been said, it also undermines his approach, basically telling the players that they're not good enough to play his way for real. Long-term, that would not have been more helpful mentally than today's game.
 
But you want to know where you are, you want to know what your players have. Interestingly for me your defeatist stance strengthen the idea of trying to play your game and see what you have or don't because if you go the negative way and lose the game, you lost everything, you wasted an entire game out of cowardice.

But ... do you set up your team the same way vs City and vs Leicester? That's a bit naive I think.

In the first half, our three players at the top (Rashford, Antony, Sancho) did not help the defence, they were doing nothing at all. Both Dalot and Malecia were alone and couldn't cope.
 
It's quite clear that our players have a weaker mentality then amateur level footballers and cannot be trusted to carry out the managers instructions on the pitch. I'm not sure what can be done to rectify this, confidence won't come from hammerings dished out but ultimately we always look to change the manager and the same rinse and repeat pattern.
Which players?

I agree with the likes of Maguire and Shaw. But who else?
 
The only reason Ole got a few results against City is dum luck.
They failed to score at least 5-6 100% chances each game.
Ive yet to see a manager as lucky as ole was.

If fergie had ole's luck as a manager he'd have a couple more cl medals to his name.
Feckin hell guys! Let go of your obsession with Ole. You can defend ETH without having a go at Ole, esp. inventing evidently untrue things. I’d love to see the evidence of “ They failed to score at least 5-6 100% chances each game.”
 
But ... do you set up your team the same way vs City and vs Leicester? That's a bit naive I think.

In the first half, our three players at the top (Rashford, Antony, Sancho) did not help the defence, they were doing nothing at all. Both Dalot and Malecia were alone and couldn't cope.

What happens when you play negatively against City and lose 3-1? What did you achieve, what did you learn?
 
Agree with this. The mentality of shutting up shop needs to go from this club. The manager can’t say trust the game plan only to abandon it v City imo. Test yourself and see where you are. We can play right v Leicester or big games at home every week and look good but we need to see where we are in the big games as well.
Let’s be honest, if we went to City and played well today we would be one of the best teams in Europe. That’s just not where we are at the minute
How many people are talking about closing shop though? Is it closing shop when you start with 2 CMs and 1 AM for example McFred plus Eriksen? Or a DM, a CM and a AM in Casemiro, Fred or McTom and Eriksen? No it isnt. We started with 1 CM plus 2 AMs asking one of those to play in the centre of the pitch. Plus we played Sancho AND Rashford who didn't really stand out in workrate, didn't they?

I agree - of course we shouldn't park the bus in a game vs City. But today seemed like as if we were unprepared or didn't even had an idea what City was good at.
 
What happens when you play negatively against City and lose 3-1? What did you achieve, what did you learn?
Weren't most of not all our positive results against City when United set up defensively but agressive and physical in the centre while trying to go for fast counter attacks? So more or less the same receipe we applied a couple of weeks ago against Arsenal and Liverpool? Seems like a promising plan to me. And if you insist of lessons learned: I'd like to know if we could do vs a team like City with a player like Haaland.

And what would you say we learned and achieved today?
 
He was very naive with his team selection. Should’ve played with Case and McT + dropped Bruno, and played Fred to man mark De Bruyne. Killed them on the counter.
 
Everyone played badly, from defenders to attackers. Not a single player gave a decent performance. We only played better when City subbed almost half of their team, and they were leading 4 goals with 25 minutes left on the clock.

So what's there to learn (player wise)? Get rid off every player?

The only learning curve is tactic wise, it was not the right one with these set of players against City's set of players and tactic.
 
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Yeah, makes sense, his signing or not I hope he'll come good. I mean, he certainly wasn't in an original plan but was the plan later when FDJ wasn't possible, I don't think he was bought without ETH's decision.

I think he was the best midfielder they were going to get and ETH took him over not getting anyone. A lot like the Fred and Donny Van De Beek signings.
 
I have no doubts about this manager at all. He'll get this right over time. His post match puts conference was one again excellent.
 
Your never going to be technically dominant against this city side though. Against these teams you need to get to half time without conceding, stay in the game and hope to hit them on the break or with moments of magic. We were never ever ever going to out play city right now. We’re so far off that if ETH thought for one minute that could happen, he’s in for a shock .

only Fulham, bournemouth, Nottingham and leicester have conceding more goals than us this season (two of them are rock bottom in the table) Our ability to lose games by big margains is a massive red flat at the moment which needs to be addressed. I understand it’s not the long term game we want or the fun football we want to see being played.. but we can’t concede this many goals. Last season it was our downfall and it will be this season again.

Is anybody actualy saying we should be technically dominant against them though?

We should though be somewhat competitive in that regard. The gap should be closer.

Today we looked like we were in a division below.
 
Weren't most of not all our positive results against City when United set up defensively but agressive and physical in the centre while trying to go for fast counter attacks? So more or less the same receipe we applied a couple of weeks ago against Arsenal and Liverpool? Seems like a promising plan to me. And if you insist of lessons learned: I'd like to know if we could do vs a team like City with a player like Haaland.

And what would you say we learned and achieved today?

And did it help us in any way? Ten Hag learned that his instructions and possibly the players he gave those instructions to weren't good enough for that kind of approach. Trial and Error.
 
What happens when you play negatively against City and lose 3-1? What did you achieve, what did you learn?

And what did you learn today after losing 4-0 in the first half?

The only thing I learned is that it is a better idea to keep it 0-0 in the first half if you are facing a better team. At least, you may have a chance in the second half.

Did you learn something else?
 
Good stuff @JPRouve and @Adnan for eh what appears to be actual, real life, perspective!

Fortunately I missed the game as I was travelling back from a short break away. But thanks for the non-hysterical analysis.
 
Puzzled that anyone could argue that Ten Hag is right to leave Ronaldo out because he doesnt fit the pressing game. What pressing game? There was none today. Ten Hag has done nothing other than disrespect Ronnie today.
Ronaldo presses as much, if not more, than Rashford
Ronaldo being left out is nothing to do with pressing. It's because he's finished.

Ten hag knows it, everyone who watches football knows it and I'm sure deep down even Ronaldo knows it.
 
And did it help us in any way? Ten Hag learned that his instructions and possibly the players he gave those instructions to weren't good enough for that kind of approach. Trial and Error.
:D ok, so next game Maguire up top und Martinez in goal? Trial and error?

Honestly, I get your point. But I think, it gets a bit polarized now. You are argueing against people voting for a more negative approach today. Got it. I can say for me personally, what I would have liked would have been a less positive approach. So not as strong of a contrast. Apart from that, I guess, this point wouldn't be so controversial, if we would have anything to show for based on the decision to stay "positive". I can tell you, I'd be happy going into halftime 4 goals down when we would have had two or three good chances of scoring ourselves. But that wasn't the case. That is what I meant, the plan didn't work full spectrum. Get as positive as you want ETH, draw games 4:4, lose them 5:6 - I'll happily take that as progress but don't be angry if I question some decisions if you choose a plan that doesn't work in terms of chance creation nor chance prevention.
 
How many people are talking about closing shop though? Is it closing shop when you start with 2 CMs and 1 AM for example McFred plus Eriksen? Or a DM, a CM and a AM in Casemiro, Fred or McTom and Eriksen? No it isnt. We started with 1 CM plus 2 AMs asking one of those to play in the centre of the pitch. Plus we played Sancho AND Rashford who didn't really stand out in workrate, didn't they?

I agree - of course we shouldn't park the bus in a game vs City. But today seemed like as if we were unprepared or didn't even had an idea what City was good at.
I don’t think we are far along enough to not park the bus and hope for a result. If we became more pragmatic and came out with a close loss then it’s a bluff that doesn’t do us any good. Now Ten Hag 100 percent knows what’s missing and where we lacked so we can take it on against Everton next week.
It’s not like we set out to lose 6-3. Now we know Martial deserves to start, Sancho needs dropped and Casemiro has to come in.
I do think Ten Hag loses his vision a bit if he starts chopping and changing AM to DMs etc etc. I’m not saying it’s worth the loss but that way holds us in better stead than losing a closer match that doesn’t really tell us anything imo.
What’s weird is that our first half performance last year was better than this
 
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