Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[romufc]

It was one of the lowest point totals for second place in the last seasons, so while second place sounds nice he wouldn't have achieved that if other clubs would have performed on the usual level.

So yes my benchmark for ETH would be to beat the points achieved, let's see which position that would mean. Demanding success in cup competitions is always tricky, especially in the latter EL stages you might just have to play against an unlucky CL club, so I wouldn't see this as a benchmark.

And it was mentioned how often United got back in games when the went behind, which shows that they weren't that bad in attack as many often say, but so many comebacks are only necessary if the defense isn't great.

So are you trying to say that some of our league titles mean less than others? Are you part of that crowd?

Just because we won titles with lower amount of points compare to other seasons means, we wouldn't have won 20 titles then ?

Okay, it shows the defence isn't good but it also shows mentality. I dont think we have looked threatening at all when we go a goal down under Ten Hag though. I rather go a goal down and win games than go a goal down and think... oh how many is it going to be?

 

[stefan92]

So are you trying to say that some of our league titles mean less than others? Are you part of that crowd?

Just because we won titles with lower amount of points compare to other seasons means, we wouldn't have won 20 titles then ?

Okay, it shows the defence isn't good but it also shows mentality. I dont think we have looked threatening at all when we go a goal down under Ten Hag though. I rather go a goal down and win games than go a goal down and think... oh how many is it going to be?

I agree on your mentality point and no, I think a title is a title. If everyone else is shit and you are just a bit less shit you still win the title deservedly and did everything necessary that season. But I believe that a third place with 80 points is a better base to win the title the next season than becoming second with 70 points.

 

[mu4c_20le]

I agree on your mentality point and no, I think a title is a title. If everyone else is shit and you are just a bit less shit you still win the title deservedly and did everything necessary that season. But I believe that a third place with 80 points is a better base to win the title the next season than becoming second with 70 points.

Every situation is different, it is never black and white. Players and I'm pretty sure managers do not give a shit about points totals. When they are sitting comfortably in 2nd and the gap to 1st is too big, they might let off the gas a little bit and focus on other competitions. I dont believe players always give 110% on every match just to pointlessly achieve a higher point total without climbing any more places.

 

[Teja]

Not sure ETH has been considered the type of coach who's relentless in the press ? I haven't seen enough of Ajax to understand this but when Klopp / Pep arrived this was implemented almost at an instant.

The only explanation is that our players are just thick. Even Tuchel managed it with Chelsea and both Ralf and EtH failed so far with our squad.

Recently when EtH was asked where we could improve, his immediate answer was out of possession. We are getting better - the game against Sociedad was a pretty good case in point where we forced multiple turnovers due to our pressing game. Normally doesn't happen against Spanish sides.

However, our PPDA (14th), High turn overs (16th) are woeful. Part of the reason is tactical - we have tended to intentionally sit back and play on the counter as soon as we score the first goal. But a pretty significant part of it is just an inability to press well.

 

[Red Dreams]

@nickm and @DJ_21
Lads. Before a budget is drawn up Goals need to be set.
Any properly run business does this.
We are the best supported club in the world.
Our annual goal has to be the Title. That is a given.
We have not won the title for 9 seasons. It may well be 10 when this season ends.
The reason why we have not won the title is purely down to the owners.
From the Moyes appointment to last season.
The false narrative that has been pushed and unfortunately many have accepted it. That our best has to be Top 4 for some years.
This is what the Glazers want. So they can live off the club.
If FdJ comes in the January window we have an excellent chance. And the money will be there just as the money was there for Casemiro and Anthony.

We have a top manager that will fight for the title. And we the supporters must back him.

 

[croadyman]

@nickm and @DJ_21
Lads. Before a budget is drawn up Goals need to be set.
Any properly run business does this.
We are the best supported club in the world.
Our annual goal has to be the Title. That is a given.
We have not won the title for 9 seasons. It may well be 10 when this season ends.
The reason why we have not won the title is purely down to the owners.
From the Moyes appointment to last season.
The false narrative that has been pushed and unfortunately many have accepted it. That our best has to be Top 4 for some years.
This is what the Glazers want. So they can live off the club.
If FdJ comes in the January window we have an excellent chance. And the money will be there just as the money was there for Casemiro and Anthony.

We have a top manager that will fight for the title. And we the supporters must back him.

Gut feeling is FDJ will be settled in that Barca team so don't think he leaves in January

 

[TheNewEra]

Gut feeling is FDJ will be settled in that Barca team so don't think he leaves in January

Throw the kitchen sink at Bellingham then, much younger and a higher ceiling

 

[Yakuza_devils]

I think we have had enough of FDJ drama whole transfer window. Not sure it will be worth it going for him the second time. Surely, ETH can find an alternative to FDJ. FDJ can't be that unique, we are talking about a player that can't even get into Barca first 11. This Barca team is in rebuild and not even near to their best teams.

Player like Eriksen contributed very well to our style of play and I'm sure there are players capable of filling FDJ's roles in our team without such drama.

 

[Irwin99]

Jesus! people STILL harping on about finishing second with a total of 74 points and shipping 44 goals as if it was some sort of monster achievement. Chelsea finished with the same total last season and got to two cup finals and their season was rightly judged as a bit of a let down. Let it go people. It wasn't bad at all but it was hardly a title challenge and pretty much mirrored Jose's second place finish with 81 points and the disastrous season that followed.

 

[Longshanks]

The only explanation is that our players are just thick. Even Tuchel managed it with Chelsea and both Ralf and EtH failed so far with our squad.

Recently when EtH was asked where we could improve, his immediate answer was out of possession. We are getting better - the game against Sociedad was a pretty good case in point where we forced multiple turnovers due to our pressing game. Normally doesn't happen against Spanish sides.

However, our PPDA (14th), High turn overs (16th) are woeful. Part of the reason is tactical - we have tended to intentionally sit back and play on the counter as soon as we score the first goal. But a pretty significant part of it is just an inability to press well.

You cant successfully implememt a high press without compressing the space with a high defensive line, to implement a high defensive line you need a goalkeeper who is willing to and good at sweeping behind a high defensive line, something our GK is woefully Inept at.

Hence why we have on average the lowest defensive line in the league so far this season. Because ETH has realised this and put us into low risk football In attempt to steady the ship after the disastrous start.

Its not that the players are thick or the forwards are lazy, its that its suicidal to attempt it with a GK like de gea.

Interestingly when Henderson played in 20/21 our average defensive line was second highest, only behind City. Shows the difference a GK that willing and capable of sweeping makes.

 

[Teja]

You cant successfully implememt a high press without compressing the space with a high defensive line, to implement a high defensive line you need a goalkeeper who is willing to and good at sweeping behind a high defensive line, something our GK is woefully Inept at.

Hence why we have on average the lowest defensive line in the league so far this season. Because ETH has realised this and put us into low risk football In attempt to steady the ship after the disastrous start.

Its not that the players are thick or the forwards are lazy, its that its suicidal to attempt it with a GK like de gea.

Interestingly when Henderson played in 20/21 our average defensive line was second highest, only behind City. Shows the difference a GK that willing and capable of sweeping makes.

Disagree 100%. Our defensive line when we're in the opposition half is quite high.

The average defensive line height stat is low because our tactics are to drop back as soon as we get our first goal and try to hit teams on the counter. Add to that we're incapable of sustained pressure because our pressing is bad (we give the ball away and can't force high turnovers).

You can look at PPDA, High turnovers etc. to see how ineffective our press is.

 

[Olecurls99]

Jesus! people STILL harping on about finishing second with a total of 74 points and shipping 44 goals as if it was some sort of monster achievement. Chelsea finished with the same total last season and got to two cup finals and their season was rightly judged as a bit of a let down. Let it go people. It wasn't bad at all but it was hardly a title challenge and pretty much mirrored Jose's second place finish with 81 points and the disastrous season that followed.

People say Ole was a joke manager

Other people say a joke manager wouldn't come 2nd

People say stop bringing that up and it wasn't very good anyway

Rinse repeat

 

[I.Like.DD.]

I want Marcus Thuram

 

[LoneStar]

If we had to prioritise on one player for the Jan window, I would choose a striker. Especially if the right one is available. We don't really need a squad option there, but a clear starter. That would mean big money, so I'm not sure if we'll be getting one.

It also depends on how Martial performs I suppose. He really needs to show good performance consistently, i.e. a good run of games without injury and performing well. In that case, I would be happy with a decent squad player if Ronaldo leaves.

For the summer, replacing DDG should be the no 1 priority. Impossible to play from the back with a keeper who can't pass.

 

[nickm]

@nickm and @DJ_21
Lads. Before a budget is drawn up Goals need to be set.
Any properly run business does this.
We are the best supported club in the world.
Our annual goal has to be the Title. That is a given.
We have not won the title for 9 seasons. It may well be 10 when this season ends.
The reason why we have not won the title is purely down to the owners.
From the Moyes appointment to last season.
The false narrative that has been pushed and unfortunately many have accepted it. That our best has to be Top 4 for some years.
This is what the Glazers want. So they can live off the club.
If FdJ comes in the January window we have an excellent chance. And the money will be there just as the money was there for Casemiro and Anthony.

We have a top manager that will fight for the title. And we the supporters must back him.

You are confusing ends and means. Of course our goal has to be the title, but the means for delivering that is the ability to finish consistently in the CL places, which we have stopped doing. That enables us to attract the funds, know how and talent we need to challenge for the title.

Nothing to do with the Glazers.

 

[croadyman]

If we had to prioritise on one player for the Jan window, I would choose a striker. Especially if the right one is available. We don't really need a squad option there, but a clear starter. That would mean big money, so I'm not sure if we'll be getting one.

It also depends on how Martial performs I suppose. He really needs to show good performance consistently, i.e. a good run of games without injury and performing well. In that case, I would be happy with a decent squad player if Ronaldo leaves.

For the summer, replacing DDG should be the no 1 priority. Impossible to play from the back with a keeper who can't pass.

Yeah Dalot is improving at RB,Eriksen doing a cracking job at CM but definitely lack that out and out striker

 

[Red Dreams]

You are confusing ends and means. Of course our goal has to be the title, but the means for delivering that is the ability to finish consistently in the CL places, which we have stopped doing. That enables us to attract the funds, know how and talent we need to challenge for the title.

Nothing to do with the Glazers.

You have missed the point.

The 'means' have been limited by the Glazers. Remember. Not one penny that has been spent has been from them.
It all belongs to the club. Since Fergie the artificial budget and poor recruitment of managers has limited us.

 

[Suv666]

Why are some weirdos still discussing Ole. Move on ffs

 

[city-puma]

Why are some weirdos still discussing Ole. Move on ffs

I think the reason is that some people here truly believe that Ole mainly set up us to play low block, counter-attack football, so that they feel confused why his team actually played higher defense line.

 

[Irwin99]

People say Ole was a joke manager

Other people say a joke manager wouldn't come 2nd

People say stop bringing that up and it wasn't very good anyway

Rinse repeat

Well yeah, he wasn't a joke but ultimately he failed, just as Jose and LVG and Moyes did. I personally just don't see why people paint the second place thing (on 74 points with 44 goals conceded) as something that really deserves praise or acknowledgement. In a similar fashion to Jose's second place 'achievement' it wasn't really indicative of a progress that was sustainable. You'd equally be very kind to say United's 2017-2018 team was the second best team in England back then too. It's very sad but it's the truth

 

[nickm]

You have missed the point.

The 'means' have been limited by the Glazers. Remember. Not one penny that has been spent has been from them.
It all belongs to the club. Since Fergie the artificial budget and poor recruitment of managers has limited us.

I get that but my point is not about how good or shit the glazers are (to be clear - they are shit). It's about how it is better to invest in continual improvement, build a platform you can build consistent challenges from, not splurge money on a hit and hope.

I would MUCH rather finish top 3 this season if it improved our chances of a title shot the next 3 years after, than shoot for the moon this season and then fall away the next.

 

[nickm]

Well yeah, he wasn't a joke but ultimately he failed, just as Jose and LVG and Moyes did. I personally just don't see why people paint the second place thing (on 74 points with 44 goals conceded) as something that really deserves praise or acknowledgement. In a similar fashion to Jose's second place 'achievement' it wasn't really indicative of a progress that was sustainable. You'd equally be very kind to say United's 2017-2018 team was the second best team in England back then too. It's very sad but it's the truth

It's like Leicester winning the title, while amazing, didn't mean Leicester was now a consistent title threat. They deserved it but it wasn't a true indicator of their strength as a club. And our 2nd place finish was not a true indicator of ours (as should have been obvious to anyone paying attention).

 

[pascell]

Why are some weirdos still discussing Ole. Move on ffs

Same people probably commenting that they hope Martial still comes up with the goods. The guy has played under 5 different managers whilst at United and hasn't improved at all, then went on loan to Sevilla and stunk the place out there too.

Needs to be on the pile with AWB, Lindelof, Shaw and Maguire that need to be sold next summer.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Jesus! people STILL harping on about finishing second with a total of 74 points and shipping 44 goals as if it was some sort of monster achievement.

It's actually the other way around. People dismiss it as nothing when it doesn't suit their agenda.

 

[Irwin99]

It's like Leicester winning the title, while amazing, didn't mean Leicester was now a consistent title threat. They deserved it but it wasn't a true indicator of their strength as a club. And our 2nd place finish was not a true indicator of ours (as should have been obvious to anyone paying attention).

Exactly. Sometimes a club's true trajectory isn't reflected in a season's finish and other circumstances come into play. I'm not being negative; just trying to be objective. Neither of our second place finishes in the post Fergie era were really cause for much optimism sadly.

Back on topic () I hope EtH will bring something sustainable and I hope the Glazers are fully committed to backing him, not just to finish top 4 and then decide that that is sufficient but to build a title winning or at least a title challenging side. I'm optimistic he knows the challenge ahead.

 

[Boondog]

Great interview on United View with Melissa. she's got a lot of insider access and morely importantly, translates it here into great insight.
Haven't listened to all of it yet but so far, she's covered topics like
* The culture change ETH has brought.
* Varanes fitness, the specialised training and how the club had seen him as the best CB.
* The captaincy, Bruno's natural leadership
* Maguire and how cleverly his position has been handled by ETH
* How Ronaldo has been handled as well.

Most things we kinda already know but still, some new content and perspective.

Sky should set her up with her own show. She could be a star in the media, knowing the game plus being so easy on the eyes. Always enjoy her takes.

 

[Boondog]

I'm not sure this is a key requirement. Guardiola has had plenty of CBs that aren't that fast.

It isn't. Speed on the outside of course is a premium. From there you want a pairing that can handle a mix of what the league throws at you. I think we have that.

Also I would put our starting CBs up against any duo in a foot race. I don't see them as slow by any means.

Our back line should flourish if and when they get a keeper playing the ball well.

 

[alexthelion]

You have missed the point.

The 'means' have been limited by the Glazers. Remember. Not one penny that has been spent has been from them.
It all belongs to the club. Since Fergie the artificial budget and poor recruitment of managers has limited us.

Howe is over £1bn artificial? Is it not real money just because it comes from the club, not the Glazers?

 

[No Idea For Nickname]

 

[golden_blunder]

If we had a proper transfer meaning Erik had got the players he wanted before pre season And no Ronaldo drama, we would certainly be among the favourites to win the title.
We would not have started with the two losses.
City are big favourites of course. But we can see United beat anyone else comfortably.

Being ok with Top 4 is conditioning. This is what the Glazers want. They do not want to spend the extra money to win the title.
You can see EtH going all out to win games. He certainly is not settling. And as long time United supporters neither should we.
We should always be competing for the title.
But it is more than that.
Restoring the stadium, training facilities and investing in the future of the club is equally important.

This season? It is not a stretch to expect us to win the title.
City have their usual tumble. Would we be ready to take advantage?
I too do not expect us to spend huge amounts in January.
But getting FdJ is doable. It is unfinished business.

You’re in dreamland. Expecting a new manager to come in, rip the squad up, insert multiple new faces, introduce a new way of playing etc AND win the league in the first year is nothing short of delusional

 

[horsechoker]

Hag for turning it around. If Liverpool were included in September he'd win it. Moreover, Conte hasn't faced proper opposition since Chelsea. United are the only team to take points of Arse thus far.

 

[Red Dreams]

You’re in dreamland. Expecting a new manager to come in, rip the squad up, insert multiple new faces, introduce a new way of playing etc AND win the league in the first year is nothing short of delusional

You set goals and plan to achieve it.
There is no certainty we will achieve it. But if you settle for a lower bar, it will be impossible to win the title.
The state of the squad is a direct result of the Glazers and the managers they have hired before EtH.

No one including City look invincible. We have beaten two of the top teams after the early tumble.
It can be done.

But as the Glazer stooges have indicated, there may be no transfers this January window. So your expectation of not winning the league may well be fulfilled.

I am hoping the potential sale of the club is the reason for the 'no transfers' statement.

 

[Dominos]

You set goals and plan to achieve it.
There is no certainty we will achieve it. But if you settle for a lower bar, it will be impossible to win the title.

It isn't. Leicester proved that. They went into the season aiming to avoid relegation and a top half finish they'd have snapped your hand off. They won the title.

The truth is you realistically this season you'll need 90+ points to win the league and we've not got anywhere near it in 10 years, with last season being the furthest away from it we've ever been. To bridge that gap in 1 transfer window is just incredibly unlikely.

Our attitude going into the season is the same as it always is, try win every game and see where you end up. Hopefully that's top of the league but more realistically hopefully top 4

 

[432JuanMata]

After the city match it will most likely be 4 wins 3 loses in the league and 1 loss in Europa already but despite that he has really got the players up for it and has made our Defense solid. He has improved Mctominay and Dalot a lot which seemed impossible.

The biggest thing for me was the Liverpool and Arsenal games. When Liverpool made it 2-1 and Arsenal 1-1 we were being penned In and 6 months ago we don’t win either of them as we would fall apart. It seems after the Brentford game he got the players up for it and make some much needed changes ie drop Shaw and Maguire

 

[little.triangles]

EtH has made some big calls already in his time at United.

His next big undertaking should be to absolutely clamp down on on all leaks. United need to be opaque about what is going on inside. Any stories coming from a player's camp should result in big fines for the player, whether it is their fault or not. An incentive has to exist for players to make sure that their friends/families etc. keep their gobs shut. Eventually, he should also get rid of players who would want to leak anything in the first place.

For too long at United, there has been a culture of shifting blame among the players, starting I think from the time of Mourinho. He could not get a handle of it and it cost him his job (apart from his own stupidity of course). Ole was equally incapable of keeping players in check. I still remember that post-match interview after a defeat in which he was blindsided by the reporter asking him about Maguire's comments regarding the players lacking belief. Maguire faced no sanction for it later, reinforcing the culture at the club of a lack of accountability.

The fault is ultimately with the Glazers. When the club itself plays the leaking-to-the-press game, then why won't the players? Look at Murtough's comments from yesterday that there will be no additions in January in a week when EtH said that the club has to be always proactive in the market. The rot is deep at the club, and I feel for EtH. What I see coming is that if Maguire has a good game for England, and if we then lose to City with Varane and Martinez (possible even with a great performance), then the press will begin its drumming for Harry to start again. They did not have much to go on after the 0-4 against Brentford and the subsequent win over Liverpool, but with the World Cup looming, you know they are waiting for the slightest opening to do their bidding for Maguire. EtH better know what's coming his way.

 

[tenpoless]

Don't be too optimistic about the game vs City. We will probably lose 6-1 and from that point onward we won't see Ten Hag as the manager to take us forward anymore, posters fighting each other, new signings approaching Dan James and Phil Jones levels. Haaland will score 50 goals a season breaking all records, Pep extending his contract by 6 years while we're sitting 8th and our top scorer is Rashford with 6 goals. Be pessimistic and expect nothing, be pleasantly surprised if it turns out to be better,

 

[afrocentricity]

Don't be too optimistic about the game vs City. We will probably lose 6-1 and from that point onward we won't see Ten Hag as the manager to take us forward anymore, posters fighting each other, new signings approaching Dan James and Phil Jones levels. Haaland will score 50 goals a season breaking all records, Pep extending his contract by 6 years while we're sitting 8th and our top scorer is Rashford with 6 goals. Be pessimistic and expect nothing, be pleasantly surprised if it turns out to be better,

No thanks

 

[phelans shorts]

Don't be too optimistic about the game vs City. We will probably lose 6-1 and from that point onward we won't see Ten Hag as the manager to take us forward anymore, posters fighting each other, new signings approaching Dan James and Phil Jones levels. Haaland will score 50 goals a season breaking all records, Pep extending his contract by 6 years while we're sitting 8th and our top scorer is Rashford with 6 goals. Be pessimistic and expect nothing, be pleasantly surprised if it turns out to be better,

Bet you’re fun at parties

 

[wolvored]

I can see a draw at least against City. We have done ok against them with poorer teams than we have now and when we at last have a decent defence we are at least in with a shout of hitting them on the break. Have faith.
In TH we trust!

 

[Loon]

Don't be too optimistic about the game vs City. We will probably lose 6-1 and from that point onward we won't see Ten Hag as the manager to take us forward anymore, posters fighting each other, new signings approaching Dan James and Phil Jones levels. Haaland will score 50 goals a season breaking all records, Pep extending his contract by 6 years while we're sitting 8th and our top scorer is Rashford with 6 goals. Be pessimistic and expect nothing, be pleasantly surprised if it turns out to be better,

*Insert pic of “it might be a tumour” kid.