Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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ShinjiNinja26 said:
Anyone moaning about ETH and the style of play 5 games in should take a long hard look at themselves because they’re a fecking joke.
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I think the main difference I can see is the speed we are moving the ball. Part of that is due to changes in personnel, part of that is coaching and setup.

We aren’t finishing moves off particularly well, but you can see the patterns of play starting to build.

I’ve said for ages, this team’s DNA is counterattacking football. I’m fine with that. The goal was outstanding. Do I wish we had a bit more possession? Yes, of course.

my biggest issue is the drop off in pressing/effort as the game goes on. Rashford was strolling around the pitch. When up against a side like Leeds or Newcastle, that lack of effort will hurt us.
 
Flexdegea said:
It's mad the way counter attack direct football is seen amongst some people like it's anti football.

It Has its place depending on the match, or time in the match. Easily the best on the eye when it comes together.

The poster last night claiming it was park the bus and then counter, clearly wasn't watching the match. Dominated the first half got a goal then set up to pick them a part 2nd half.


Perfect away football to be honest.
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That's true. For me it isn't the issue, it's more when the counter attack is the ONLY way a team can play then it becomes extremely irritating at how one dimensional it can be. Sir Alex had teams that could play a rapid counter but he always had midfielders like Keane and Scholes who could also dictate games and keep possession when needed.

For me, there was clear improvement in ball retention and movement in the first half last night. If we can do that and keep the counter attack option we'll be in a good place.
 
Why is every page 2 dozen shitting on the one negative post? At least quote the heretic so the rest of us know where to fling our shite. Y'all are just selfish.
 
Irwin99 said:
That's true. For me it isn't the issue, it's more when the counter attack is the ONLY way a team can play then it becomes extremely irritating at how one dimensional it can be. Sir Alex had teams that could play a rapid counter but he always had midfielders like Keane and Scholes who could also dictate games and keep possession when needed.

For me, there was clear improvement in ball retention and movement in the first half last night. If we can do that and keep the counter attack option we'll be in a good place.
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I think we need better ball retention capacity to do that especially in midfield and transitioning from midfield to attack, in terms of transition from midfield to attack Rashford, Elanga and Bruno struggle to be progressive without consistently giving up possession. Only Sancho does this efficiently.
This is where Martial and Antony would improve our play, they're good in possession and play the short passing game efficiently.
I think VDB if he gets his head out of his ass can give Bruno a real go if the front three is Sancho, Antony and Martial because that front three doesn't need Bruno risky style. They can create and interlink among themselves, although their style could influence Bruno game as well.
The other issue is going to be De Gea, I have no clue if Dubrawka is good enough to displace him, or if he has the ball playing qualities to meet ETH tactical demands, if he doesn't then we'll have to make do with De Gea for now while targeting a long term replacement. All in all I'm optimistic about ETH football, in the long run we'll have the right profile meet his demands.
 
There’s a vast improvement in our gameplay and passing and you can clearly see the impact ETH has had on the play. The final third is still lacking but it’ll come. I’m quite positive that we’ll go on a run where scoring comes naturally and we are winning by big margins. Getting our defense and midfield sorted was the first priority and he’s doing that quite well. Getting those wins builds confidence and brings momentum. Onwards and upwards
 
We are seeing sequences of an EtH team with those crisp passes and team coordination, they just aren't all on the same page yet. As the season unfolds the passing will continue to improve and we will see possession numbers improve as well as part of that.

But the problem is he's not done sorting the forwards. The defense looks excellent. The midfield looks solid, which is to say even though we are missing a ball carrier Ericksen is doing a great job with his passing which plays well with our speed up front. Unfortunately that speed at forward has not finished well and averaging 1 goal per game isn't gonna get it done.

Clearly Ronaldo will be our CF at some point. Maybe it will be in the second half of most games to protect him from the running. But he will be heavily leaned on, that is unavoidable. And I think his value goes up with Antony's addition because he will get another couple chances per game in the box with Antony's ability to feed that ball inside.

I don't think the forwards are going to be able to grow into a top unit this season. But maybe they can do enough if the defense continues to play this well. Translation is that we are in for a lot of tight games and inevitably some big disappointments and where they finish will come down to these things and how the players develop. Then hopefully going forward they find that midfield ball carrier to run the attack and a young striker at the top of his game or who is close to that point in development and we should be in great shape.
 
Boondog said:
We are seeing sequences of an EtH team with those crisp passes and team coordination, they just aren't all on the same page yet. As the season unfolds the passing will continue to improve and we will see possession numbers improve as well as part of that.

But the problem is he's not done sorting the forwards. The defense looks excellent. The midfield looks solid, which is to say even though we are missing a ball carrier Ericksen is doing a great job with his passing which plays well with our speed up front. Unfortunately that speed at forward has not finished well and averaging 1 goal per game isn't gonna get it done.

Clearly Ronaldo will be our CF at some point. Maybe it will be in the second half of most games to protect him from the running. But he will be heavily leaned on, that is unavoidable. And I think his value goes up with Antony's addition because he will get another couple chances per game in the box with Antony's ability to feed that ball inside.

I don't think the forwards are going to be able to grow into a top unit this season. But maybe they can do enough if the defense continues to play this well. Translation is that we are in for a lot of tight games and inevitably some big disappointments and where they finish will come down to these things and how the players develop. Then hopefully going forward they find that midfield ball carrier to run the attack and a young striker at the top of his game or who is close to that point in development and we should be in great shape.
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We do have a ball carrier now, thats one of Antonys best aspects he just does it from out wide rather than the center of the pitch.
 
The handling of Ronaldo has been perfect. Benched him and won the games. Now its up to Ronaldo to pull his socks up and contribute to a winning team or stay out of it.

so now even if Ronaldo comes in and starts scoring its adding to an already winning team and not all about him.

Perfect.
 
Still needs more time to mold this squad/team. Not expecting anything other than a 4th place challenge. Too many weaklings still in this squad, but thankfully alot of them are now on the fringes.

Alot of new players that will take time to adapt. Alot of unfamiliarity with tactics etc., although said new players will have some experience.
 
Newtonius said:
We do have a ball carrier now, thats one of Antonys best aspects he just does it from out wide rather than the center of the pitch.
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The term ball carrier in that usage is referring to midfield for the play buildup. Ericksen is not a ball carrier. He's a table setter of great ability and also a sneaky/nasty forward too. But when we face teams that are proficient at pressing the middle we will feel it.
 
RedStarUnited said:
The handling of Ronaldo has been perfect. Benched him and won the games. Now its up to Ronaldo to pull his socks up and contribute to a winning team or stay out of it.

so now even if Ronaldo comes in and starts scoring its adding to an already winning team and not all about him.

Perfect.
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Yes should no longer be just about him. Even Antony isn't coming to just pump crosses to him. That kind of predictable one way attack didn't work with Bruno for obvious reasons. The crosses are more a side weapon than a go-to game plan. Mostly we'll play on the ground where he'll have to be involved. He did a decent job yesterday but if he just goes back to "conserving energy" when he starts then he should be back on the bench.
 
Tom Van Persie said:
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Jadon Sancho has put his resurgent form for Manchester United down to “a clearer plan” from new manager Erik ten Hag.

Sancho scored just three goals in 29 Premier League appearances last season under Ole Gunnar Solskjaer and interim replacement Ralf Rangnick after arriving at Old Trafford in a £73million transfer from Borussia Dortmund.

But the England international has already netted twice in five starts so far this term and credits Ten Hag for providing “more information” about roles and responsibilities.

Asked how he felt he was benefiting from playing under the Dutchman, Sancho — who scored the winner against Leicester on Thursday evening — said: “I would say more information, a clearer plan and what to do, especially in some areas of the pitch. Definitely.

“The style of play in training is what we’re working on. Some of that you see, some of it is the intelligence of our players, creating and knowing each other well.

“We’re training more together (the forwards) and we’re playing in the style which the manager wants. Everyone is loving it at the moment.

“The most important thing is the team playing well. When the team plays well individual moments come to light. I feel like I’m in a good place at the moment on and off the pitch. I just have to keep up this and hopefully I will.”

United recorded a third straight Premier League victory for the first time since last Christmas thanks to Sancho’s first-half strike at the King Power Stadium and Sancho admitted a humbling at Brentford — followed by a gruelling 13.8km run on a cancelled day off— acted as a wake-up call.

“We had to do it, we shouldn’t be losing like this,” he said of the punishment session. ” Everyone took it as extra running and more fitness and after that we just got on with it.

“We knew we had to wake up after the Brentford game. We’ve got three wins in a row now and we have to keep this up.”

United are up to the fifth in the fledgling table and are hoping to end the perfect start of early leaders Arsenal when the sides meet at Old Trafford on Sunday.

“They’ve won five out of five so we know Arsenal are going to be a tough game,” Sancho added. “I’m sure the boys will recover now and be ready.”

Anthony Martial will miss out again as he continues to recover from an Achilles injury sustained in the recent 2-1 win over Liverpool.
 
Greck said:
Yes should no longer be just about him. Even Antony isn't coming to just pump crosses to him. That kind of predictable one way attack didn't work with Bruno for obvious reasons. The crosses are more a side weapon than a go-to game plan. Mostly we'll play on the ground where he'll have to be involved. He did a decent job yesterday but if he just goes back to "conserving energy" when he starts then he should be back on the bench.
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Doesn't look fit enough to start yet to be honest. The real slap in Ronnie's face will be - ironically - for him to start in the Europa League next Thursday. At least it's a strong opponent.
 
Massive decision for Ten Hag ahead of this game… the biggest one being does Ronaldo start? It could be really good or end really bad. If we lose or fail to win then the press will be all over it and be like it was the wrong decision to bring Ronaldo into a winning team. However we could start him and he bangs in 2 and then he keeps his place and we keep on winning except with a few more goals added. The Casemiro decision should be easy… he’s got to come in against arsenal… I’m assuming that’s the reason he didn’t play against Leicester. Antony will be on the bench I think.. good option to bring on when there defence is tired.
 
Ten Hag was lucky and opportunistic. I suspect he had always planned on phasing out Shaw and Mcguire but with the losses, he was able to do it immediately without any backlash, under the guise of "stopping the bleed". So far it's turned out great for us and long may it continue.

It'll be interesting to see how long it takes to bring in Antony and Casemiro.

We've made some fantastic signings but as I said before, our best signing is still Ten Hag.
 
Newtonius said:
Mate don't rewrite history LVG's football was boring as feck imagine going to OT for 3 0-0 draws in a row all they did was pointlessly keep the ball he had something like 5 of them over an 9 game period.

Edit:

​
RANK​
MANAGER​
GAMES​
% 0-0 RESULTS​
1​
Louis van Gaal​
53​
13.2%​
2​
Jack Robson​
116​
10.3%​
3​
Dave Sexton​
168​
9.5%​
4​
John Chapman​
206​
9.2%​
5​
Tommy Docherty​
188​
9%​
​
Ron Atkinson​
223​
9%​
7​
Frank O’ Farrell​
64​
7.8%​
8​
Wilf McGuinness​
65​
7.7%​
9​
Ernest Mangnall​
330​
7.6%​
10​
Walter Crickmer​
98​
7.1%​
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Indeed, I’m not contesting that point, but the extreme criticism caused the team to go into a downward spiral.

Van Gaal was trying a different approach, because we could not find consistency in the first season. The execution was not good enough, the possession play was too slow. Towards the end of the season we were playing a more reactionary style.

The consequence of sacking him and not hiring a successor of similar style was six years of bad signings and lack of progress, getting more behind our competitors.

What would happen if we had two 0-0 games in a row with Ten Hag? That’s what I am worried about. He was dealt a shit hand, and so was Van Gaal.

It’s a bit of a miracle, the turn around that Hag has pulled off.
 
FrankWhite said:
Ten Hag was lucky and opportunistic. I suspect he had always planned on phasing out Shaw and Mcguire but with the losses, he was able to do it immediately without any backlash, under the guise of "stopping the bleed". So far it's turned out great for us and long may it continue.

It'll be interesting to see how long it takes to bring in Antony and Casemiro.

We've made some fantastic signings but as I said before, our best signing is still Ten Hag.
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I think Casemiro will start on Sunday and Antony on the bench
 
mav_9me said:
I have also seen couple of posts saying we have been Mourinhoesque in the last 2 games, others have said park the bus.

I actually don't think so at all. I feel we have defended very differently. Usually under mourinho it was a lot of defending in the box. Park the bus also implies lot of deep defending.

I feel though that instead of that under EtH we have pressed very aggressively in the middle third of our half, forcing them back to the halfway line or back into their half. Basically never letting them build to get close to our box and put crosses into our box.

Very different imo. Open to correction.
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No, that is right. The line where you start pressing is flexible. The chances we are creating are mostly from turnovers forced by pressing.

It’s very different from two banks of four in our box trying to minimize spaces so that shots can’t come through ( Mourinho).
 
I think we need to raise the bar. Looking at the squad now, with all the additions, the competition for places and the “process”, top four is achievable this season.
 
NLunited said:
Indeed, I’m not contesting that point, but the extreme criticism caused the team to go into a downward spiral.

Van Gaal was trying a different approach, because we could not find consistency in the first season. The execution was not good enough, the possession play was too slow. Towards the end of the season we were playing a more reactionary style.

The consequence of sacking him and not hiring a successor of similar style was six years of bad signings and lack of progress, getting more behind our competitors.

What would happen if we had two 0-0 games in a row with Ten Hag? That’s what I am worried about. He was dealt a shit hand, and so was Van Gaal.

It’s a bit of a miracle, the turn around that Hag has pulled off.
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I don’t think people would be nearly as mad in a 0-0 if we were still moving the ball quickly through the pitch and creating chances. Then we could just slate the forwards. The problem with LVG was that there was never any attempt to do anything. We’d just pass it around the back and then eventually give it to Martial on the wing and hope he could work some magic. There was no real plan or even attempt to create anything, no matter how close we got to the opposite box
 
OrcaFat said:
I think we need to raise the bar. Looking at the squad now, with all the additions, the competition for places and the “process”, top four is achievable this season.
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We need top 4 or win the Europa League. We have to be in the CL next year to attract the best players. We have done well with recruitment this year but attack and midfield need top quality players.
 
OrcaFat said:
I think we need to raise the bar. Looking at the squad now, with all the additions, the competition for places and the “process”, top four is achievable this season.
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Definitely - very competitive though with Spurs and Arsenal much improved.

Liverpool will be there as expected. Chelsea have started shit but won’t be far off.

There’s always a surprise team in the mix after Christmas too.
 
In a roundabout, off-beat way, Ten Hag is the culmination of what went before, excepting Moyes and Ole. LVG tried to get the team defending as a unit, as did Mou and Ragnick. (I know that in other ways the styles and philosophies were entirely different). I really like him: he’s the real deal, far as I can see so far. It’s been a long old journey to some kind of game control. Not there yet, but slowly… in truth, it’s a been a long time since Fellaini.
 
dutchred said:
I think Casemiro will start on Sunday and Antony on the bench
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I would love this. Question is for who though? Mcsauce will eventually be the one to make way but right now he's playing alright.
Dropping him now may bring into question
the idea of starting places based on merit.
Also, based on how Arsenal have looked, having McSauce's energy may be useful.
 
FrankWhite said:
I would love this. Question is for who though? Mcsauce will eventually be the one to make way but right now he's playing alright.
Dropping him now may bring into question
the idea of starting places based on merit.
Also, based on how Arsenal have looked, having McSauce's energy may be useful.
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We might see McTom + Casemiro starting, although I would hate that. But Eriksen was playing full match against Soton so he might get rested and ten Hag may opted for more grit and tenacity in the middle and trust Casemiro to play a more expansive game
 
In Rainbows said:
The requirements to me is the same as when LVG arrived (so the last 8 years). More than results, I want to see United look to be a side that has incredible chemistry, more so than end of season results in the short term of a manager's tenure. That means the team has patterns of play when building out from the back, when on the counter attack, and when facing a low block. That also means that the team has a well drilled coordinated press. Basically a side that resembles Klopp and Pep's sides, even if not the exact same (Ten Hag's style).

The reason I believe that to be more important is because I believe it's easier to build a title winning side from that foundation, compared to a side that even if they have results (Ole's 2nd place, Mou's 2nd place + trophies, and LVG's trophy) that the fanbase accepts, it never materializes into a genuine challenge for the biggest trophies (PL and CL). When Klopp didn't get top 4 at first, I thought they were closer to a title than United because I knew they were playing as a team that can play above their weight. With the right players, with their ability to play above their weight, they would challenge. And they did.

So more than a trophy, or a top 4 finish, I want United to resemble former Ten Hag sides. We got him for that reason. If it's a side that relies on individual talent, we'll probably get a top 4 finish and we can get the smaller trophies (FA Cup, Carabao, EL), but that's never been what it's about. None of our managers have gotten United to play like that.

That's for my expectations of year 1. On the surface it feels lenient, but I think it's the opposite.

Ten Hag has this team winning games so we're no longer in freefall. It's a big improvement compared to where we were in the first 2 matches, and through Ralf's tenure. With a few more results, and with Antony, Casemiro, and Martial able to play, I hope that our performance goes up a notch. Because what I saw in preseason was definitely what I wanted out of a manager.

I trust in Ten Hag to enact his ideal instructions.
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Great post and fully agree. Although a top 4 finish or EL win will definitely expedite this process. This summer (above others) have reflected how it's hard to compete for quality players if you aren't in the CL.

Fergie's teams from 2009-2013 were a classic example of what you're saying. We had players like Tom Cleverly and Valencia winning titles with us. Our midfield those years was so weak - but we saw out most games based our principles of play. I pick this as an example because their style was totally different to today's modern football.
 
DJ_21 said:
Massive decision for Ten Hag ahead of this game… the biggest one being does Ronaldo start? It could be really good or end really bad. If we lose or fail to win then the press will be all over it and be like it was the wrong decision to bring Ronaldo into a winning team. However we could start him and he bangs in 2 and then he keeps his place and we keep on winning except with a few more goals added. The Casemiro decision should be easy… he’s got to come in against arsenal… I’m assuming that’s the reason he didn’t play against Leicester. Antony will be on the bench I think.. good option to bring on when there defence is tired.
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Arsenal are playing really good stuff so we'll be on the counter, but Zinchenko (whose movement is varied and really good) isn't available and Tierney just runs in a straight line, so my guess is Antony will start on the right, Sancho out left and Rashford up top again with Cristiano and Casemiro getting a full half hour, or even Casemiro starting in place of McTominay, who can come in for Eriksen after an hour since he'll be gassed at that point.

I don't expect Cristiano to start, but while Elanga is clearly a place holder, the Casemiro vs McTominay decision means disrupting a winning team and Ten Hag might just wait until we lose to do it, though he's gonna take the job anyways obviously so I'd just play him against Arsenal.

Wouldn't be shocked if it's Eriksen as a 10, Bruno on the right and both McTominay and Casemiro in midfield as Arsenal as we play on the break.

I guess there's also the option of just keeping an unchanged squad, hopefully getting to the hour mark (or just halftime) tied or up 1 and then Antony and Cristiano coming on for Elanga and Rashford.
 
FrankWhite said:
I would love this. Question is for who though? Mcsauce will eventually be the one to make way but right now he's playing alright.
Dropping him now may bring into question
the idea of starting places based on merit.
Also, based on how Arsenal have looked, having McSauce's energy may be useful.
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I think it will be one of Fred or Mac with Eriksen as 10 and Bruno on the right. I think something like
Casemiro Fred/Mac
Eriksen
Bruno Ronaldo Sancho

The reason I say Fred is that he and Casemiro play well together for Brazil
 
There are obviously signs that Ten Hag has the team playing more in the style he wants, and we certainly look tighter and more aggressive in our defensive play, our midfield appears to be able to press and pass well, but also obviously, our forward play is still a work in progress.
Varane will possibly get a break on Thursday, but I wonder if Ten Hag would completely swap the back 5, which he could do quite easily, but as his tendency is to play, more or less, the same team week in week out, I wonder if he will?
With the premiership being a very tough and physical league, he may have to adjust his philosophy a little, and perhaps have a 'cup' squad, and a 'league' squad. It will be interesting to see the outcome on Thursday.
Our biggest test will be against city on 2nd October, then we will see how good certain players are under that pressure, I'm hopeful that AWB, Maguire, Lindelof, Shaw, etc, will have been coached into a more aggressive, quicker unit that can actually get the ball to our midfield earlier instead of playing the ball to each other most of the time.
 
Valencia Shin Crosses said:
I don’t think people would be nearly as mad in a 0-0 if we were still moving the ball quickly through the pitch and creating chances. Then we could just slate the forwards. The problem with LVG was that there was never any attempt to do anything. We’d just pass it around the back and then eventually give it to Martial on the wing and hope he could work some magic. There was no real plan or even attempt to create anything, no matter how close we got to the opposite box
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Remember LVG saying that Martial was a present for the next manager. It turns out it was for three managers hence....
 
Quite impressed thus far, even moreso about quickly realising that this squad isn’t ready to play his preferred style of football yet and quickly changing personnel and tactics to get results.

Results and defensive stability will breed confidence and team spirit, which in turn will provide a platform to slowly start taking more and more risks.
 
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