Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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TheReligion said:
You should probably just try being less dramatic with the ‘absolute joke’ nonsense.

We know where he’s been performance wise over the past year or so but he was looking more like himself against Liverpool and got another assist tonight.

How about you just leave off a bit and let Ten Hag do his thing? The negativity is draining.
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The way he's played for the past 12+ months joke is actually an understatement. He's been a complete waste of space, sulking and moaning and struggled to get past barely anyone not you or anyone else can dispute this. We are now resigned to keep playing him anyway as the window gone shut so we will see come the end of the year how it went for him. 4 goals last year so he only needs 3 more to reach that....

I fully agree with you about the negativity bit but thing is if you read correctly I was not negative over ETH or the way we play or anything I was just pointing out a fact that we are dreadfully short in the attack and as the season goes on you will quickly realize this yourself.
 
bleedred said:
I would reason that we were hardly troubled because of how poor Leicester were rather than us being in control.

What's frustrating is that we have struggled to create chances again other than the goals. Three wins are good, but hardly any sign of progress.
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Not sure how anyone can look at our play, our defensive work, our control in midfield, our chances created, the pressing high up in the pitch with vigorous intensity, and then conclude that we have not improved.

Maybe it just takes some time for some to realise what is blatantly obvious.
 
BlueHaze said:
The way he's played for the past 12+ months joke is actually an understatement. He's been a complete waste of space, sulking and moaning and struggled to get past barely anyone not you or anyone else can dispute this. We are now resigned to keep playing him anyway as the window gone shut so we will see come the end of the year how it went for him. 4 goals last year so he only needs 3 more to reach that....

I fully agree with you about the negativity bit but thing is if you read correctly I was not negative over ETH or the way we play or anything I was just pointing out a fact that we are dreadfully short in the attack and as the season goes on you will quickly realize this yourself.
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I’m aware we are short but what can we do?

The rebuild won’t be completed it one window. We have to make do with some of what we have. Sancho, Martial, Antony looks good with Ronaldo, Rashford, Elanga, Garnacho in reserve.

We will get in a CF in Jan or summer and Ronaldo and his big wages will go which will free up more funds.

The club was blindsided by Greenwood and essentially lost a £80m player overnight. No money back no nothing. We needed to get Antony in for that right side and could only justify getting in another CF if Ronaldo was leaving the club.

We are rebuilding the side here and I’m happy it’s going according to plan.

I think some of you have totally unrealistic expectations at times.
 
TheReligion said:
I’m aware we are short but what can we do?

The rebuild won’t be completed it one window. We have to make do with some of what we have. Sancho, Martial, Antony looks good with Ronaldo, Rashford, Elanga, Garnacho in reserve.

We will get in a CF in Jan or summer and Ronaldo and his big wages will go which will free up more funds.

The club was blindsided by Greenwood and essentially lost a £80m player overnight. No money back no nothing. We needed to get Antony in for that right side and could only justify getting in another CF if Ronaldo was leaving the club.

We are rebuilding the side here and I’m happy it’s going according to plan.

I think some of you have totally unrealistic expectations at times.
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Don’t care what you say, we’re winning this league
Realism is overrated
 
Tom Van Persie said:
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Imagine if the goalkeeper is part of that build up? There are things we have to compromise due to what we have. But, piece-by-piece, the whole group is gradually moving toward better and better. In a few months, looking back then, we probably will have been completely transformed.
 
Tarrou said:
the pressing and transitions were more impressive than anything we managed under Ole, I thought

we’re obviously miles off but some promising signs.. the first major task is getting the mentality right

it’s gonna take us a fair bit of work until we can dominate the likes of Liverpool in possession, so I wouldn’t worry about that bit now
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I dunno, it might just be that we were playing away to a rubbish team in blue but some parts of the game felt like Ole's first against Cardiff minus the ball going in the back of the net much more often.

The signs are there though you're absolutely right, felt more like the first 1 and a bit pre season games where everything was just that bit different and more focused.
 
We're not brilliant, but there's definitely progress and we're getting points on the board we wouldn't have gotten last season. ETH has clearly compromised his style a bit to work to the squad he has, but elements of his football are coming into our game. We played some good one touch stuff at times, including out of tight spaces at the back and high up the pitch, but when De Gea gets the ball he's clearly been told to get rid rather than trying to be too clever. We didn't press brilliantly, but we pressed and sat back as a team depending on the situation, which is a big improvement.

A disappointment for me tactically was that we worked the ball into good positions for a cross or cut-back a few times, but seemed to have no intention of getting players into the box. Although, it's possible that its not a tactical failing, but a consequence of not having a natural striker on the pitch, as we looked a lot more dangerous when Ronaldo came on.
 
TheReligion said:
Can’t fans just get behind the players?! is it that much to ask
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To be fair I’m as player friendly as I can be but Rashfords touches tonight looked lazy to me, like he wasn’t concentrating.
Not saying it’s ok to jump on a player but I can see why that was called out tonight. It wasn’t getting accustomed to tactics or he was getting a bit lost in a new set up, it was just basic errors.
I’ve always been a Rashford fan and I 100 percent think we’ll be looking back at Christmas at him rinsing players in behind but tonight wasn’t really it.
 
TheReligion said:
I’m aware we are short but what can we do?

The rebuild won’t be completed it one window. We have to make do with some of what we have. Sancho, Martial, Antony looks good with Ronaldo, Rashford, Elanga, Garnacho in reserve.

We will get in a CF in Jan or summer and Ronaldo and his big wages will go which will free up more funds.

The club was blindsided by Greenwood and essentially lost a £80m player overnight. No money back no nothing. We needed to get Antony in for that right side and could only justify getting in another CF if Ronaldo was leaving the club.

We are rebuilding the side here and I’m happy it’s going according to plan.

I think some of you have totally unrealistic expectations at times.
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It is true and I already know my expectations of the owners investing more than they did is just never going to happen but still, it's what should have happened. The manager is good tactically we all know this but what we also know is that long time is barely given anymore in this sport so they needed to make sure he had good grounds from the start. EL starts next week, also WC year, injuries and fatigue will creep in and one of our forwards is already on the injury reserve list 24/7. :lol::lol::lol:

If they had not signed Antony I would panic.
 
Pieces of the puzzle are being put together gradually. DDG has been hopeless in every game playing out from the back but there were a few times today he actually looked confident and played a pass between the lines to Mctominay. This is the impact of coaching, seeing incremental improvements, sure it looks like nothing now but improvement at the same rate for a few months and we'll look a completely different side.

The most important thing is the organisation defensively, not just the back four but the whole team. When we got in position we looked very compact and solid, Leicester only looked like creating off of our our turnovers of possession and even that was minimal.

I've no doubt that the sexy football will come later but for now I will take these 1-0 victories especially after the last 18 months watching this side.
 
jeff_goldblum said:
We're not brilliant, but there's definitely progress and we're getting points on the board we wouldn't have gotten last season. ETH has clearly compromised his style a bit to work to the squad he has, but elements of his football are coming into our game. We played some good one touch stuff at times, including out of tight spaces at the back and high up the pitch, but when De Gea gets the ball he's clearly been told to get rid rather than trying to be too clever. We didn't press brilliantly, but we pressed and sat back as a team depending on the situation, which is a big improvement.

A disappointment for me tactically was that we worked the ball into good positions for a cross or cut-back a few times, but seemed to have no intention of getting players into the box. Although, it's possible that its not a tactical failing, but a consequence of not having a natural striker on the pitch, as we looked a lot more dangerous when Ronaldo came on.
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It's definitely partly not having a #9 but it's also not having other players with that knack of finding the right spaces. Twice Eriksen was the player making the run into the box and both times he ran far post when going near post would be going across his marker. The first time (the Ronnie cross) was maybe understandable, but the second time, when the cross came from the right was just poor decision making.

I guess this is the only ace up Donny's sleeve, ETH says he smells goals or the right situations inside the box.
 
The fact that he's also benched Maguire for the past 3 games has already made me like him a lot more. I bet you we wouldn't have won a single one out of those 3 with him in the team.
 
jeff_goldblum said:
We're not brilliant, but there's definitely progress and we're getting points on the board we wouldn't have gotten last season. ETH has clearly compromised his style a bit to work to the squad he has, but elements of his football are coming into our game. We played some good one touch stuff at times, including out of tight spaces at the back and high up the pitch, but when De Gea gets the ball he's clearly been told to get rid rather than trying to be too clever. We didn't press brilliantly, but we pressed and sat back as a team depending on the situation, which is a big improvement.

A disappointment for me tactically was that we worked the ball into good positions for a cross or cut-back a few times, but seemed to have no intention of getting players into the box. Although, it's possible that its not a tactical failing, but a consequence of not having a natural striker on the pitch, as we looked a lot more dangerous when Ronaldo came on.
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Let's be honest, the main concern when we signed him was that was what he wouldn't be able to do. It's really impressive.
 
I'm actually impressed with the pragmatic side to ETH. Honestly seeing how leaky we were against Brighton (if Welbeck could actually score, they could have really sunk us) and Brentford, I was extremely concerned about how bad things would get, however, he's made the team solid and given us the right foundations to build from pretty quickly
 
For far too long, we've been easy to play against. I suspect teams won't want to come up against us soon enough.
 
hobbers said:
A piece of play that is categorically impossible if Maguire or Shaw are on the pitch.
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I was just thinking when ETH said Maguire is the captain and there was a meltdown, obviously ETH will do what’s right for the team just wish we had someone instead of Rashford…
With Maguire and Shaw we wouldn’t have had that build up just wish Eriksen scored there as he had so much space.
 
People like to rewrite things here with Liverpool and Klopp. Do they remember his games in his first season when he took over or even the next season(his first full season) when he blanked out at Burnley and Hull or got shafted at Wembley against Spurs. People act as if his side started playing brilliant football from get go.

People don't realize the mess we are. Eth has a hard job and it's not a quick fix like some LUHG/Jose fan boys twitter account will make you believe.
 
AshRK said:
People like to rewrite things here with Liverpool and Klopp. Do they remember his games in his first season when he took over or even the next season(his first full season) when he blanked out at Burnley and Hull or got shafted at Wembley against Spurs. People act as if his side started playing brilliant football from get go.

People don't realize the mess we are. Eth has a hard job and it's not a quick fix like some LUHG/Jose fan boys twitter account will make you believe.
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No, Liverpool were playing his style right away. They just weren't as effective, and thus didn't have the results (in terms of goals scored or conceding goals). He was never pragmatic from week 1 or week 8.

The difference is that, Ten Hag started off similarly, but the players were so awful in their mentality (nervous to start, no fight after conceding, and no effort) that he probably became a little more pragmatic in his instructions. It's quite clear to see that the way we were playing in preseason is different from now. And I'm not talking about how good we are in executing his instructions. It's clear that the instructions are not the same as in preseason. The easiest way to tell is how we press. We are not nearly putting in the same amount of effort as before (nor are we as coordinated), and that has benefitted us somewhat in that we're a bit more compact and do not leave as much space for the opposition to exploit.

But again, I completely understand why we're like this. I think Ten Hag wants the players to regain their confidence. It could also be because he doesn't trust key players to execute his usual instructions (De Gea for instance).
 
What he is doing now is what both LVG and Rangnick failed to do. The manager need to be flexible to play pragmatic football to get results before the team can fully adapt to his style.
 
podurban2 said:
Not sure how anyone can look at our play, our defensive work, our control in midfield, our chances created, the pressing high up in the pitch with vigorous intensity, and then conclude that we have not improved.

Maybe it just takes some time for some to realise what is blatantly obvious.
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I don't remember their GK making any save?. Did we create any chance other than the goal?. We had 2 shots on target! Same as Leicester

Pressing?. seriously, we huff and puff for 20 odd mins every game, that's it. We didn't do any consistent press at all today. Can you timestamp a few times where we did high press?
 
Yakuza_devils said:
What he is doing now is what both LVG and Rangnick failed to do. The manager need to be flexible to play pragmatic football to get results before the team can fully adapt to his style.
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Exactly this. In pre-season, De Gea was doing alright playing it out from the back in relatively relaxed matches. Second the premier league pace kicks in, he shows he simply can't do it. ETH clearly tells him, get rid, every time. And it's not ideal, but it's pragmatic and we're not losing because of the stupid mistakes.
 
bleedred said:
I don't remember their GK making any save?. Did we create any chance other than the goal?. We had 2 shots on target! Same as Leicester

Pressing?. seriously, we huff and puff for 20 odd mins every game, that's it. We didn't do any consistent press at all today. Can you timestamp a few times where we did high press?
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Nobody does consistent pressing. You create pressing opportunities and you find you moments to do it. We are improving with that, clearly. We are also clearly creating good opportunities, but the final ball letting us down many times. But we are getting bodies in the box and touches in the box regularly.
 
bosnian_red said:
Nobody does consistent pressing. You create pressing opportunities and you find you moments to do it. We are improving with that, clearly. We are also clearly creating good opportunities, but the final ball letting us down many times. But we are getting bodies in the box and touches in the box regularly.
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And even if they are pressing, which no team does completely throughout a match like you mentioned, the players are communicating and looking behind themselves when they do press or occupy passing lanes. So their shape is just as important and it's something I've noticed more and more. Players are getting better in terms of positions they need to take when off the ball.
 
In Rainbows said:
No, Liverpool were playing his style right away. They just weren't as effective, and thus didn't have the results (in terms of goals scored or conceding goals). He was never pragmatic from week 1 or week 8.

The difference is that, Ten Hag started off similarly, but the players were so awful in their mentality (nervous to start, no fight after conceding, and no effort) that he probably became a little more pragmatic in his instructions. It's quite clear to see that the way we were playing in preseason is different from now. And I'm not talking about how good we are in executing his instructions. It's clear that the instructions are not the same as in preseason. The easiest way to tell is how we press. We are not nearly putting in the same amount of effort as before (nor are we as coordinated), and that has benefitted us somewhat in that we're a bit more compact and do not leave as much space for the opposition to exploit.

But again, I completely understand why we're like this. I think Ten Hag wants the players to regain their confidence. It could also be because he doesn't trust key players to execute his usual instructions (De Gea for instance).
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Yes he has become pragmatic and he is right in that. This squad is a mess and it will take time for him to stamp his authority. Also, as you pointed the players are mentally shot from what happened last season, so any more losses would or could have ended the season.

As for Liverpool under Klopp, again we are rewriting history. His first few games apart from City were hardly anything amazing. Even the Chelsea win came after Chelsea's capitulation. Let us not forget his losses to Newcastle, crystal palace, watford etc. They looked lost in most of the games. No manager can turn turds into diamonds . This is what's happening with ETH as well.

But even then, I have seen some positives, like the first half today was good. There were some fluid movements in our play. The thing is some players are still adapting and some are just not good enough. The position elanga got with the ball, a bettet quality would have yielded some positive moment, same with Rashford. These are things if we start doing correct those 1-0s will become 2 or 3-0s.

It will take time and if anyone is expecting a quick fix then they will be disappointed.
 
We are picking vital points and have managed to keep two clean sheets in a row away from home. We will build on this now. We have complained for a long time that our managers don’t seem to improve players. We are now seeing elevated levels from Varane, Dalot and Sancho compared to anything we have seen from them in a United shirt. You don’t need to be an optimist to clearly see Ten Hag’s contribution to the team already.
 
It should really have been 3 successive clean sheets but for that jammy Liverpool goal. The defence is looking very tight at the moment and the full backs and midfielders deserve credit too.

The lack of a killer instinct in the attack is probably the most glaring issue at the moment but that will come. The pragmatism of the second half and seeing out games is fine while the foundations are being laid.
 
I can’t believe the negativity in here….he has adapted quickly, he is steadying the ship, building morale, creating togetherness and getting all the players in line…..We have three wins in a row….some of the interchange between players was great tonight….we would have lost this game last year….
 
I think many people forget the dire and hopeless state we were in prior to ETH’s arrival. Any clean sheets from here on should be celebrated. We are becoming a tough team to beat thus far
 
The most encouraging aspect is that we know ETH is being pragmatic now and didn't totally abandon his football philosophy. He is slowly but surely let the team learn to play his football which we know will be very exciting and brought wonders to Ajax with much less budget.
 
Team looks great, wish they would've played the second half the way they played the first half but I get it, I guess.
 
ilrm said:
When you spend over 200m in a window, you’re going to have to win at least one cup out of FA/Europa/League and at least challenge for 4th place till the last 2-3 games of the season.
Anything else is a failure on EtH.
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This would be the case if we weren't a club in such freefall. We've seen key players like Rashford, Martial and Greenwood (basically entire front line) fall off a cliff. And we've handed Ronaldo a beast of a contract last year. We also signed the likes of Maguire and Awb for huge money and big wages and they're clearly not good enough. Add to that a broken mess of a team that set records last year and only just ended a 7 game loss streak away from home. Then there's the fact that for 4 years we haven't had a style of play other counter attack the space.

All of the above is the context ETH comes into and has no fault in. When you consider that and our leadership ineptness necessitating us to overpay for players, we have to temper our expectations. The job is huge. Simply getting this team to play half decent poasesion football will take awhile.
 
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