Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[Manncunian]

So when we lose it’s all on Ten Hag and he doesn’t know what he’s doing.

When we win he’s just copying Ole’s tactics and can’t take credit for it. He’s just a fraud going into the dressing room saying “just do what Ole told you to do” (presumably not the time he lost 0-5 to Liverpool).

The state of some posters is hilarious.

 

[VP89]

Yes Ole's tactics was an actual thing and we were also coherent. The sad thing is most of you have no idea how management works, where you naively think that all he does is tell the players to "have fun and do whatever you want". Just by observing the sheer number of comebacks during his tenure, it is very clear that he is not someone you want to mess with if you are not playing well and that the players were able to pull off his instructions. Like ETH, he puts on a different face during the interviews. Tactically he was quite versatile by utilizing different formations depending on the opponent (e.g. 3-5-2 vs PSG and Man City, 4-4-2 diamond vs Chelsea etc). The only problem with Ole was that he had tendency to trust players who had delivered for him (Shaw and Maguire performed well during the 20/21 season) and that ultimately caused his downfall.

Coming back to ETH, he certainly studied our play in the past 2 matches as well as Liverpool's playing style very well. Unlike others who think that he dropped the players because he wanted to prove a message, I feel that he made changes that suited our approach against Liverpool. Maguire does not have the composure nor the decision making to defend against Liverpool's pressing, which is why he brought Varane in. Similarly he did the same for Shaw by bringing in Malacia. As for the midfield, I would say that he brought in McTominay because Fred was not performing well in the DM role 2 games in a row and he wanted McTominay to show that drive. Ronaldo was left out because he is still not able to press very well and Rashford's way of playing was conflicting with Ronaldo, resulting in Rashford moving to the center and Elanga providing the width and aggression in Rashford's old role.

The team looked much more compact and more confident on the ball as a result. You can see that the energy and drive was strong and even Liverpool's goal did not make them feel doubtful at any point of time. Kudos to ETH because he knows how to adapt to different opponents and is very smart and confident on the way he works.

Ole didnt have tactics.

 

[Cantonaaa!]

"They can fecking play football" should be the new thing when United do well

They can fecking good play football

 

[Mickeza]

Liverpool had 70 percent of the ball. Of course they ran less than us. Just like when we have 70 percent possession against Brentford they ran more than us.

It’s not as a surprising stat that it’s made out to be in my opinion.

Liverpool ran 2km less than we did even with that possession. We ran 13km less than Brentford. So I’d say the Brentford stat was surprising. And ETH clearly agreed.

 

[ShoePolish]

He'll be in the market for CB or two next summer, maybe even january.

 

[Stobzilla]

Ten Hag about Lisandro after the game;
"I think he took the responsibility and I think he showed leadership with Rapha Varane on the pitch. They make a huge difference but that is what we have to bring but not just them two, we need more leaders. When you want a winning team, you want more leaders and you need spirit what we showed today."

This is damning thing for Maguire

It is, but I think it can also stand as a wake up call to him as well, he is a good footballer but for whatever reason his head has been firmly up his arse for 18 months and maybe dropping against Liverpool at home is the thing that starts to hammer it home for him.

Not that he should have thought he was immune, but the Arsenal dropping seemed like Ralf thrashing about looking for a response. This was calculated and had a specific purpose behind it.

 

[Andycoleno9]

He'll be in the market for CB or two next summer, maybe even january.

How many defenders sone if you want/need, ffs? We have Martinez who he bought and Varane who is world class defender.

 

[romufc]

I don't think we should draw many similarities to Ole's teams. Ole's teams were defensive minded.

This team was on the front foot, pressing and as you should do against Liverpool, exploit the space in behind, we did that.

Our line was high at times, we were just intense, that's what I loved, every player was first to the ball.

 

[JPRouve]

How many defenders sone if you want/need, ffs? We have Martinez who he bought and Varane who is world class defender.

To be fair, he is right. I would try to sell Maguire and bring a CB that is better suited unless Maguire shows that he can be a seamless alternative to Varane or Martinez.

 

[stefan92]

So when we lose it’s all on Ten Hag and he doesn’t know what he’s doing.

When we win he’s just copying Ole’s tactics and can’t take credit for it. He’s just a fraud going into the dressing room saying “just do what Ole told you to do” (presumably not the time he lost 0-5 to Liverpool).

The state of some posters is hilarious.

Yep... instead of taking a balanced middle ground, which you actually can do quite well after this match.

Ole usually played a low block and focused on counter attacks to score. The attacking moves yesterday were also mostly quick transitions, however the defending work changed from a low block to a higher pressing. So in a way once they got the ball the players could attack like it was ingrained during Ole's and arguably already Mou's time, but against the ball they had to apply new tactics and mindset.

Don't overload their brains, change one part after another of the tactics. Evolution instead of revolution as it was announced.

 

[Leftback99]

Why do people still get so wound up at any mention of Ole . The football was clearly far more similar to our counter attack wins over City than watching Ten Hag's Ajax in the CL. Who cares though, we won.

 

[Mickeza]

How many defenders sone if you want/need, ffs? We have Martinez who he bought and Varane who is world class defender.

We need another left footer and a young aggressive alternative to varane capable of playing in a high line. I’m assuming the latter is Timber.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I’m loving his handling of Ronaldo. Benched, whether he likes it or not. Early days but so important for a manager to show who’s the boss. Something that was sorely lacking in the way Ronaldo was managed last season.

I do agree that the 30% possession is a bit of a worry. At home, against that midfield. Although I think we would have had a lot more of the ball if DDG didn’t smash it long every time we had a GK. That was obviously a reaction to his Brentford horror show but ETH clearly prefers his team to keep the ball on the deck, so hopefully we can do more of that in the future.

 

[SirAF]

Get off your high horse. Ole's tactics isn't a thing, more often than no we weren't coherent in fact under Ole we often only played well for one half. Also the tactics used by Ole weren't some sort of novelty that you should named Ole's tactics.

100% spot on.

 

[Mickeza]

Why do people still get so wound up at any mention of Ole . The football was clearly far more similar to our counter attack wins over City than watching Ten Hag's Ajax in the CL. Who cares though, we won.

Get out! Ole had no tactics when we went to City and demolished them. We weren’t exceptional in transitions or fantastically compact. It’s all nonsense. Vibes FC. McKenna jobs for boys bullshit. All useless and just lucked into finishing 3rd and 2nd because the players were so good. Impossible not to finish 3rd and 2nd with the squad he had. The same squad everyone wants replaced.

 

[JPRouve]

Why do people still get so wound up at any mention of Ole . The football was clearly far more similar to our counter attack wins over City than watching Ten Hag's Ajax in the CL. Who cares though, we won.

For me it's not the mention of Ole, it's the frankly stupid culture of taking extremely common Football things and act as if they were linked to someone recent. It's like people acting as if pressing was a new concept invented by Klopp or technical possession Football was Guardiola's invention. It shouldn't wind me up but it does.

 

[iato89]

Yes Ole's tactics was an actual thing and we were also coherent. The sad thing is most of you have no idea how management works, where you naively think that all he does is tell the players to "have fun and do whatever you want". Just by observing the sheer number of comebacks during his tenure, it is very clear that he is not someone you want to mess with if you are not playing well and that the players were able to pull off his instructions. Like ETH, he puts on a different face during the interviews. Tactically he was quite versatile by utilizing different formations depending on the opponent (e.g. 3-5-2 vs PSG and Man City, 4-4-2 diamond vs Chelsea etc). The only problem with Ole was that he had tendency to trust players who had delivered for him (Shaw and Maguire performed well during the 20/21 season) and that ultimately caused his downfall.

Coming back to ETH, he certainly studied our play in the past 2 matches as well as Liverpool's playing style very well. Unlike others who think that he dropped the players because he wanted to prove a message, I feel that he made changes that suited our approach against Liverpool. Maguire does not have the composure nor the decision making to defend against Liverpool's pressing, which is why he brought Varane in. Similarly he did the same for Shaw by bringing in Malacia. As for the midfield, I would say that he brought in McTominay because Fred was not performing well in the DM role 2 games in a row and he wanted McTominay to show that drive. Ronaldo was left out because he is still not able to press very well and Rashford's way of playing was conflicting with Ronaldo, resulting in Rashford moving to the center and Elanga providing the width and aggression in Rashford's old role.

The team looked much more compact and more confident on the ball as a result. You can see that the energy and drive was strong and even Liverpool's goal did not make them feel doubtful at any point of time. Kudos to ETH because he knows how to adapt to different opponents and is very smart and confident on the way he works.

Of course he had ''tactics'' though he was changing all the time and too reliant on individual brilliance. Every manager has some sort of tactics but in Ole's case it was more like guesswork with no real progression in 3 years.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Setting up to counter-attack after scoring first is just a very normal thing to do. The way we took the game to them in the lead up to our goal had nothing to do with sitting deep and hoping to counter. I could watch the passing and movement leading up to that goal all day long. It was a thing of beauty. The second goal was a classic “ole goal”. The first was pure Ten Haag.

As well as the ‘long ball De Gea’ I mentioned above we probably also sat a bit deep because we don’t yet have the belief to take the game to the opposition and keep on top of them for 90 minutes. Hopefully that will come with time.

 

[ShoePolish]

How many defenders sone if you want/need, ffs? We have Martinez who he bought and Varane who is world class defender.

Yes we have, and the drop off in quality if one of them is out is huge.

 

[Andycoleno9]

To be fair, he is right. I would try to sell Maguire and bring a CB that is better suited unless Maguire shows that he can be a seamless alternative to Varane or Martinez.

We have undisputed first pair; Varane and Lisandro who will play most of games. Central defenders are not rotated much during season and can play back to back games week after week.
Backup pair is Lindelof- Maguire at this moment. Plus Jones. Plus Tuanzebe. Plus Mengi.
We have 7 central defenders. While playing Europa league.
If we sell Maguire, we are on six defenders which is still enough.

Problem with central defenders is that they are not rotated much (only in case of injuries). So there is no point buying another expensive defender who will sit on the bench. If we can find some cheap young jem then sure, i would take him.

 

[newgiz]

I loved Ole but why are people saying it was his tactics and his way that won us the match.


It's weird.


If you seriously expected us to dominate the ball last night with that team out against Liverpool for 90 minutes yous are mad. Thank God Hag was able to be pragmatic and brought different tactics to each half to play to our strengths.


Give us the season before I'd be expecting us to dominate and press the ball like the best about. The way the first 30 minutes went last night.

This is the point. Throughout his career, Ten Hag has proven himself to be pragmatic and adaptable. He has worked with the players he has at his disposal and played to their strengths. We could see that when comparing each of his title winning sides at Ajax and how different they lined up. Its a positive to not be too dimensional in your approach towards games.

It's rather strange to bring up Ole's tactics and how he won though, because I can't see too many similarities in the way we played yesterday to the times before.

 

[Skills]

Setting up to counter-attack after scoring first is just a very normal thing to do. The way we took the game to them in the lead up to our goal had nothing to do with sitting deep and hoping to counter. I could watch the passing and movement leading up to that goal all day long. It was a thing of beauty. The second goal was a classic “ole goal”. The first was pure Ten Haag.

As well as the ‘long ball De Gea’ I mentioned above we probably also sat a bit deep because we don’t yet have the belief to take the game to the opposition and keep on top of them for 90 minutes. Hopefully that will come with time.

Even Guardiola does it. Especially if the opponent is so willing to commit and throw numbers forward to press, it's sensible to then just look for a chance to break on them.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Yes we have, and the drop off in quality if one of them is out is huge.

That is true. But, as i said, it will be hard to buy good defender who will want to sit on the bench. Timber refused transfer because of that

 

[Ayoba]

I thought Keane made a great point last night before the match, something along the lines of today is not about Ten Hag the coach with this tactics but more about him as a manager. And I think he showed that. He even mentioned it during this post match interview when he spoke about attitude.

 

[JPRouve]

We have undisputed first pair; Varane and Lisandro who will play most of games. Central defenders are not rotated much during season and can play back to back games week after week.
Backup pair is Lindelof- Maguire at this moment. Plus Jones. Plus Tuanzebe. Plus Mengi.
We have 7 central defenders. While playing Europa league.
If we sell Maguire, we are on six defenders which is still enough.

Problem with central defenders is that they are not rotated much (only in case of injuries). So there is no point buying another expensive defender who will sit on the bench. If we can find some cheap young jem then sure, i would take him.

You don't think that we should try to improve on Lindelof or Maguire in the near future? With Varane recent injury record, it's not wise to expect him to not miss a dozen of games and I personally don't believe in Jones, Tuanzebe and Mengi. Maybe Mengi will show something because he is only 20 but I wouldn't rely on it.

 

[Trex]

He dropped Ronaldo, Maguire and Shaw big calls.....if he had lost that would have backfired but that's the decisions you need to make as a manager.
Like Mata said he need to stick to his guns and make no compromise, if the pace and energy of the younger forwards is what is needed then Ronaldo should be left out, same in defence with the likes of Malacia, Martinez and Varane.
I think the best managers are the biggest personality in the group, SAF, Pep, Klopp rule. Its vital ETH sticks to his guns and not give in to player power and club politics, its the only way he can succeed.

 

[Flexdegea]

So when we lose it’s all on Ten Hag and he doesn’t know what he’s doing.

When we win he’s just copying Ole’s tactics and can’t take credit for it. He’s just a fraud going into the dressing room saying “just do what Ole told you to do” (presumably not the time he lost 0-5 to Liverpool).

The state of some posters is hilarious.

It's ridiculous. But wouldn't expect anything less from the Caf.


I loved Ole and was a defender but absolutely ridiculous comparing last night to him.


ETH has managed after 9 days on the training ground, to turn around prob the worse looking United team I've ever seen, total laughing stock of the league, completely snowballing from when Ole team played last year against Liverpool, into a coherent looking unit which was aggressive, and pressed high up the pitch, the way we struggled at times to do, while also dropping big names out of the team at a massive gamble against the scum.


Deserves total credit for last night. Showed big big balls. Ironical prob the main reason it fell apart for Ole last season was his refusal to drop players no matter how they performed.

 

[OpenIntrovert]

Get off your high horse. Ole's tactics isn't a thing, more often than no we weren't coherent in fact under Ole we often only played well for one half. Also the tactics used by Ole weren't some sort of novelty that you should named Ole's tactics.

I am not saying he invented it, but saying that he did have tactics. Coherence basically means the team was able to follow a structure according to his instructions, which they did. The fact they could do it for one half or sometimes fully (e.g. against Leeds) is dependent on the squad's overall ability. He was playing 2 makeshift defensive midfielders in McTominay and Fred which tells you the awful balance we had in the squad. Anyways lets leave this discussion here, as I am not interested in arguing with people who think that Ole just told the players to feel free and play however they want without any instructions. Its obvious most of you just read the media with no apparent insight on how management or coaching works.

 

[Skills]

I fecking loved the subs btw. I haven't seen a manager be so proactive when our team is actually leading- he knew exactly what we needed at that moment in time. If he hadn't have bough Martial on, we wouldn't have scored that second or have been able to get out of our half.

And Fred for Sancho, just added more legs into the midfield when Liverpool had to go for the onslaught.

 

[Marwood]

Setting up to counter-attack after scoring first is just a very normal thing to do. The way we took the game to them in the lead up to our goal had nothing to do with sitting deep and hoping to counter. I could watch the passing and movement leading up to that goal all day long. It was a thing of beauty. The second goal was a classic “ole goal”. The first was pure Ten Haag.

As well as the ‘long ball De Gea’ I mentioned above we probably also sat a bit deep because we don’t yet have the belief to take the game to the opposition and keep on top of them for 90 minutes. Hopefully that will come with time.

It's not like we didn't score similar goals under Ole or even Mourinho.

I didn't see anything in the game on the ball that suggested ETH is already influencing us.

We've got talented players and they clicked for a moment on the first goal. At this stage I don't think it's anymore telling than that.

 

[horsechoker]

We won using Ole's tactics, the only difference being the players were willing to run this time. Credit to ten Hag for motivating them, I guess.

Dutch Physical Education teacher

 

[Leftback99]

I thought Keane made a great point last night before the match, something along the lines of today is not about Ten Hag the coach with this tactics but more about him as a manager. And I think he showed that. He even mentioned it during this post match interview when he spoke about attitude.

Yeah the important thing was he got a response from the players which is a good sign. There was nothing sophisticated about the tactics.

 

[TsuWave]

That Martial sub at half time was genius

 

[OpenIntrovert]

It's not like we didn't score similar goals under Ole or even Mourinho.

I didn't see anything in the game on the ball that suggested ETH is already influencing us.

We've got talented players and they clicked for a moment on the first goal. At this stage I don't think it's anymore telling than that.

You have to understand that we don't have the players yet for completely dominating a possession heavy team like Liverpool. ETH has shown his influence in terms of the players chosen to start, the compact shape of the entire team and the mentality throughout the whole game. The key thing is that the players followed the instructions that he set and that was seen very well in this game.

As for style of football, it will be dependent on the players who have the attributes that ETH requires. It will take time for that to be implemented.

 

[JPRouve]

I am not saying he invented it, but saying that he did have tactics. Coherence basically means the team was able to follow a structure according to his instructions, which they did. The fact they could do it for one half or sometimes fully (e.g. against Leeds) is dependent on the squad's overall ability. He was playing 2 makeshift defensive midfielders in McTominay and Fred which tells you the awful balance we had in the squad. Anyways lets leave this discussion here, as I am not interested in arguing with people who think that Ole just told the players to feel free and play however they want without any instructions. Its obvious most of you just read the media with no apparent insight on how management or coaching works.

I didn't tell you that he didn't give tactical instructions, I said that Ole's tactics isn't a thing because it's not. It makes no sense to assign a tactic to a manager when said manager isn't particularly linked to it, Ole's tactics isn't a thing unless any situational tactics is Ole's tactics. And coherence refers to his entire body of work, it's not coherent, United didn't use the same tactics coherently, it was situational and often reactionary which is why we often were better in second halves.

At no point am I saying that Ole didn't give instructions or that use tactics. I'm saying that Ole's tactics isn't a thing because it's not.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

It's not like we didn't score similar goals under Ole or even Mourinho.

I didn't see anything in the game on the ball that suggested ETH is already influencing us.

We've got talented players and they clicked for a moment on the first goal. At this stage I don't think it's anymore telling than that.

Against Liverpool? Or City? I can’t think of any. The only goals I can remember against them over the last few years were on the counter (and McT’s brilliant long ranger into an empty net)

Goal aside, in the opening spell we pressed high and aggressively. Trying to win the ball high up the pitch. Which all looked exactly like the type of football we were wanting/hoping to see under ETH.

Different story after we went ahead but that opening 15-20 minutes was very encouraging.

 

[UpWithRivers]

Actually its a measure of how we pressed

Is it though? It tells us we worked our arses off but also we couldn't keep hold of the ball. Not how effective the press was or how we did it. If we run 50 percent less but have 70 percent possession against Southampton and win is that not better?

 

[cyberman]

Completely dominated them, Klopp didn’t have an answer. We could have scored two more after the goal, Liverpool have a real problem getting hit on the break and Ten Hag completely exploited that

Edit don’t be paying attention to the possession stat. Liverpool didn’t switch the ball enough today so had a lot of small, slow passes across the pitch while we played one ball and ram right at them. That’s why the stats are skewed. Liverpool hadn’t a clue how to progress the ball forward

 

[OpenIntrovert]

Yeah the important thing was he got a response from the players which is a good sign. There was nothing sophisticated about the tactics.

Depends on how you see sophiscated. Problem with a lot of fans is that they interpret complex tactics as a way of how you distinctively play the ball during possession. It is much more than that, which includes the formation, positioning of the players and the instructions given to those players. Here is the type of tactics ETH used during the game.

1) Handling of Liverpool's most potent flank - ETH put in Elanga to constantly press TAA while Mallacia handled Salah.
2) Stretching Liverpool's defence when they had possession - He shifted Rashford to the center to press as well as to provide direct and incisive attacking threat, as Van Dijk does not seem to do very well with speedy forwards.
3) Increase speed of attacks - He brought in McTominay to provide more pace and dribbling during their counter attacks.
4) Handling Liverpool's direct approach of using their attackers to cut in with speed - He got Varane to play with Martinez as both are very good at reading the game with decent speed to boot.
5) Reducing spaces for Liverpool to attack - He made the entire team to stay compact off the ball and on the ball, so that there are not many spaces for Liverpool to attack into.

 

[stefan92]

Is it though? It tells us we worked our arses off but also we couldn't keep hold of the ball. Not how effective the press was or how we did it. If we run 50 percent less but have 70 percent possession against Southampton and win is that not better?

Distance covered is in no way related to how much possession you have. When you look at Bayern München for example they usually have 60-65% possession and additionally outrun most of their opponents because they work so hard to open spaces in attack as well as defend by aggressively pressing.