Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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Two fecking games is all it takes for our fans to turn on a new manager?

I can’t believe anyone would expect a rebuild from our current poor state, involving clearing out the sh*t and trying to bring the right players in to take anything less than 2 - 3 seasons. Big messes need big solutions.

ETH is brand new to this league, he will make mistakes but I’m certain he’ll learn from each one. The guy is cut from that cloth! Today will have hurt him loads.

We can’t keep tumbling managers out every week. He has my full support, the guy has a very unenviable task ahead. Massive job to do.
 
Cassidy said:
Arteta didn’t do it right away and certainly not after 2 games ffs
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We both know that Ten Hag will not see a future with those two players, the team is in complete shambles so why not just do it? I just don’t understand the hesitation and he surely knows he would come under zero fire from the fan base for it either.
 
I’m not blaming the manager for the mess we are in but he’s come in and pointlessly signed a CB we didn’t need. Signing a defender less than 6ft in the Premier League is as basic error as you can make.

He has kept on Maguire as club captain so he’s now undroppable once again. Tried to play McFred in his first game. And trying to play out the back with De Gea in goal.

Honestly most fans can see these very, very obvious issues. Why can’t the last 3 managers see them?
 
BluesJr said:
We both know that Ten Hag will not see a future with those two players, the team is in complete shambles so why not just do it? I just don’t understand the hesitation and he surely knows he would come under zero fire from the fan base for it either.
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Surely you’re not that silly?
Why not do what? Put Heaton in goal?
Pick a captain from a squad full of players he doesn't trust?
He needs time to figure things out
 
Berbaclass said:
Easy to manage in hindsight from your armchair. The core of players at his disposal is simply not good enough. It's going to take 12-18 months to see noticeable improvement IMO.
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Hey it was you who asked what he could have done differently. I just gave out my opinion. Also put a disclaimer saying it might not have worked. Also when we dissect a match it will always be in hindsight.
 
Cassidy said:
Surely you’re not that silly?
Why not do what? Put Heaton in goal?
Pick a captain from a squad full of players he doesn't trust?
He needs time to figure things out
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Agree. What he's finding out right now if absolutely crucial about his players. More specifically the character of some of them.
 
Josep Dowling said:
I’m not blaming the manager for the mess we are in but he’s come in and pointlessly signed a CB we didn’t need. Signing a defender less than 6ft in the Premier League is as basic error as you can make.

He has kept on Maguire as club captain so he’s now undroppable once again. Tried to play McFred in his first game. And trying to play out the back with De Gea in goal.

Honestly most fans can see these very, very obvious issues. Why can’t the last 3 managers see them?
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With the exception of Martinez I agree with you.

Yes Martinez is short but I think he brings integral value to his system when implemented fully. Of course while the squad struggle to actually implement this system, they will be exposed on goal often and thats where Martinez arial struggles is compounded. But generally speaking I dont think a well oiled Ten Hag side commit so many set pieces and defensive feck ups.

For example the corner where Martinez was beat - all stemmed from rash feckery by Dalot hacking a player for a free kick, which in turn led to the corner.
 
VP89 said:
With the exception of Martinez I agree with you.

Yes Martinez is short but I think he brings integral value to his system when implemented fully. Of course while the squad struggle to actually implement this system, they will be exposed on goal often and thats where Martinez arial struggles is compounded. But generally speaking I dont think a well oiled Ten Hag side commit so many set pieces and defensive feck ups.

For example the corner where Martinez was beat - all stemmed from rash feckery by Dalot hacking a player for a free kick, which in turn led to the corner.
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Agree about Martinez. He's used to playing in a competent team. Which has now obviously changed. Add into the mix new country/team/league and he's just taking time to settle into the club. People who have written him off are crazy. He's also barely had a pre-season with us :lol:
 
Berbaclass said:
Agree about Martinez. He's used to playing in a competent team. Which has now obviously changed. Add into the mix new country/team/league and he's just taking time to settle into the club. People who have written him off are crazy. He's also barely had a pre-season with us :lol:
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This
 
Oldtraffordboy said:
Absolutely ridiculous that people are pointing fingers at Ten Hag already

They forget that it took SAF 4 years to win his first game for us.
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For the bold part, pardon me? You must be saying trophy instead of game.

I don't want to throw shit at Ten Hag yet, but he has to tell me why he keeps on wasting his time with the certified failures when his job is to find solutions even if that means thinking outside of the box. For example, we have seen Shaw, Rashford, and McTominay (I'm tempted to add Sancho in the list too) repeating the same shit time and time again. We haven't seen different options take root yet although Malacia has given a case to be starting more often. The quicker Ten Hag takes action to address squad issues within his available tools, the more unanimous he will be within the fanbase.
 
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I think ETH has allowed the players such as De Gea, Shaw, Dalot, Rashford, Sancho, and Mctominay to play themselves out of the starting 11. The issue is that bar Malacia over Shaw, there aren't really better options already at the club (not including kids).

We desperately need new signings or else will have to revert back to negative counter attacking football.

Its easy to say that ETH got the tactics wrong but how are we ever going to become a dominant team if we don't start attempting what we did today, pushing the full backs into midfield, allowing Bruno and Fred/Eriksen to go forward with Rashford and Sancho to hold the width. The tactics he's attempting make sense, however, either the players aren't good enough or he hasn't had enough time to actually coach the system. Most likely its both.
 
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Volumiza said:
Two fecking games is all it takes for our fans to turn on a new manager?

I can’t believe anyone would expect a rebuild from our current poor state, involving clearing out the sh*t and trying to bring the right players in to take anything less than 2 - 3 seasons. Big messes need big solutions.

ETH is brand new to this league, he will make mistakes but I’m certain he’ll learn from each one. The guy is cut from that cloth! Today will have hurt him loads.
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Not all fans just the complete numpties… No doubt the Same ones who chanted Fergie out Fergie out on masse at Old Trafford 3 years into Fergies reign …. And now they hail Fergie as a heroic legend, a man who went on to win countless tittles and trophies..

It took klopp 7 years to get Liverpool back to being Title winners. Now hes the greatest manager in the prem…. (Along with Pep.)

some of our fans are as embarrassing as the current team.. glory hunters who want instant success..
i followed united home and away through decades of titleless years, Tommy Doc Sexton BiG Ron etc .. it took years until we finally hit that golden period of domination under Fergie, and maybe it will takes years to return, we are not even close, if ten hags here in 5 years then its close… dont like it go support city or Chelsea.
 
We need to back him. He's shown qualities of a very good coach over the last few years. Whether he's cut out for the PL or not, let's see, but you'd need to be a bit of a simpleton to write him off so soon. He has made mistakes but I've no doubt he'll learn from them and improve us. The club structure is rotten so it won't be easy but let's give him our support and give him a fair chance to sort out this mess.
 
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el3mel said:
I'm honestly not seeing anyone calling for him to get sacked now. We're just saying with this rate he'll, ultimately.

And that he has to be blamed for his own mistakes.
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Completely agree. But we're bottom of the league and probably will be rooted to the bottom after our next game, the knives will be out.
 
Berbaclass said:
Agree about Martinez. He's used to playing in a competent team. Which has now obviously changed. Add into the mix new country/team/league and he's just taking time to settle into the club. People who have written him off are crazy. He's also barely had a pre-season with us :lol:
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It’s going to be a long time before this team is competent. I’d be concerned that Martinez will be damaged before that comes a long. I think he’d be better in midfield for this season, where he could make more impact in the short term.
 
RedDevilQuebecois said:
For the bold part, pardon me? You must be saying trophy instead of game.

I don't want to throw shit at Ten Hag yet, but he has to tell me why he keeps on wasting his time with the certified failures when his job is to find solutions even if that means thinking outside of the box. For example, we have seen Shaw, Rashford, and McTominay (I'm tempted to add Sancho in the list too) repeating the same shit time and time again. We haven't seen different options take root yet although Malacia has given a case to be starting more often. The quicker Ten Hag takes action to address squad issues within his available tools, the more unanimous he will be within the fanbase.
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Best guess would be that he thinks it's way to soon to start making bvig changes. He's talked about trying to really bring this team together, I don't know if he can do that if he starts freezing out regulars and guys who have pull at the club. Plus with this group of players can you really see them getting upset and fighting to win their place back. Probably just leads to more leaks, and more downed tools. I'm with you, he needs to start swinging the axe.
 
Look at every team in the league,pound for pound.Tactically,Physically who are United going to beat to get 40 points?I’m not joking.This is desperate.I cannot see us beating anyone at the moment.
 
Very naive from ETH. He was trying to play a brand of football without the players to do so or the time to develop it.

Needs to be a gradual process that we build towards. He's gone straight in with the get the keeper who can't play out to start attacks, and let's squeeze the game so much we leave huge gaps, when the players either can't or haven't learnt how to press and stop counters yet.

He needs to be more pragmatic and build in his philosophy slowly or he'll have even more problems to deal with and will never get the time to achieve his aims.

Anyone could have told him Brentford away is going to a slog that this team is not ready just to pass their way out of.

Still fully behind him but he needs to learn these lessons quickly.
 
It’s near enough impossible to judge anything this year for him as regardless of who we sign in the next few weeks we’re doing so after the season has begun & with 2 losses in our first 2 games. Procrastination will be the killer for EtH before anything else.

How we find ourselves at this point again with another manager I will never know.
 
RussellWilson said:
Very naive from ETH. He was trying to play a brand of football without the players to do so or the time to develop it.

Needs to be a gradual process that we build towards. He's gone straight in with the get the keeper who can't play out to start attacks, and let's squeeze the game so much we leave huge gaps, when the players either can't or haven't learnt how to press and stop counters yet.

He needs to be more pragmatic and build in his philosophy slowly or he'll have even more problems to deal with and will never get the time to achieve his aims.

Anyone could have told him Brentford away is going to a slog that this team is not ready just to pass their way out of.

Still fully behind him but he needs to learn these lessons quickly.
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You say he needs to be more pragmatic but the gameplan today was specifically to go long.

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De Gea just didn't do it, something he alluded to in his post-match interview when he said he didn't read the situation well enough. But ETH is trying to be pragmatic in that sense. That's also why all the CFs we've been linked with are big, physical players you can fire the ball up to.
 
You can see some ideas trying to install like playing out the back but he doesn't have the players. De Gea for start is terrible keeper to have playing that game.

Alot of them don't have technical ability in their locker to play his style of football.
It's suicidal playing high line with Maguire and he will be dropped soon. Terrible defender, so slow on and off ball.
 
sullydnl said:
You say he needs to be more pragmatic but the gameplan today was specifically to go long.

FaEofG7XkAgbZSZ


De Gea just didn't do it, something he alluded to in his post-match interview when he said he didn't read the situation well enough. But ETH is trying to be pragmatic in that sense. That's also why all the CFs we've been linked with are big, physical players you can fire the ball up to.
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That's similar to the football klopp plays, right?
 
Berbaclass said:
The short-termism here is honestly laughable. I get today has been frustrating for people but come on...
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As the years go by, the frustration growns and patience runs out faster and faster. I don't agree with it but it's not surprising after 9 years. I'm still backing Martínez, ETH, etc. though. Not that it shouldn't be the norm after 2 games :lol:
 
sullydnl said:
You say he needs to be more pragmatic but the gameplan today was specifically to go long.

FaEofG7XkAgbZSZ


De Gea just didn't do it, something he alluded to in his post-match interview when he said he didn't read the situation well enough. But ETH is trying to be pragmatic in that sense. That's also why all the CFs we've been linked with are big, physical players you can fire the ball up to.
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Hadn't seen this. That's very nice to read, then we go back to the players being terrible.

What a mess we are in, squad revamp needed, infrastructure revamp and parasite owners. It could really be the end for united as a major force unless something drastically changes.
 
Did ETH see something amazing in training and say, wow this playing out of the back will be a brilliant tactic to deploy next game? A good manager has the ability to assess whether such a tactic will work in the next game, so he must have seen something good with this team in training.

It was incredibly naive of him and he will look even more naive if he does the same thing against Liverpool. With this team, it is best to stay compact and counter. Gradually, instill a better philosophy over time, when we got the right players. ETH still seem wet behind the ears and misguided about his ability in a farmer league like the Eredivisie.

Losing two winnable game in his first match is a bad start and I believe no other manager has done that at United in a century? Correct me if I m wrong about that
 
I kinda have hopes he's not a fecking moron.
He doesn't look like a moron.

Let's see what he has at his disposal and let's try to use this team in the best way possible.

Let's start with the GK. Fine, we're stuck with David, feck it.
It is what it is.


What he has at his disposal, and the first thing he needs to resolve is our CB pairing.

Harry fecking Maguire should be behind Phil Jones at this moment.
He's a coward.
He can't play football.
He can't defend.
He's always cought off position.

And he has a square head.

Play Varane and play Martinez. Play Bailly if shit go south. Hell, play Phil the Jones Jones but DO NOT in any case play Harry the feckwit Maguire ever again.


Next, Luke Shaw.
I hope we never see his face again.
Tyrell should keep that spot whatever fecking happens until the rest of the season.

Diogo Dalot.
Upgrade the cnut ASAP.
Promote youth for all i care. Just find a better RB.
And sell AWB.

Midfield.
Fred was shit, but you can see at least the man is hurting - he wants to play better - he needs to play better.
Scotty. Goddamn it man. I love the will, but you suck.

Eriksen - fecked up today. Do better.

Bruno - fecking cnut just keeps regressing game after game. Get your shit straight or lose it.

Sancho - oh Sancho where are though? Could you fecking do something?

Rashford? Feck off.
Elanga? Zero chance of becoming a footballer.

Ronaldo? Feck off as well. Go retire and enjoy the life you made. It's over.


And here we are - who the feck do you play?
You're Erik ten Hag and you're in a shit storm of piss poor players in every fecking position.

START WITH NOT PLAYING HARRY MAGUIRE EVER AGAIN!!!!!!!

That's would be a good start.
 
Josep Dowling said:
Honestly most fans can see these very, very obvious issues. Why can’t the last 3 managers see them?
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Because their job is to motivate them and get a tune out of them. You can’t do that if you have no replacements. Fans want to see a manager come in and call players out but they won’t do that. It’s similar to your boss at work calling you out every time you do anything wrong.

I’ve come to the conclusion that our players (even the ones we like) just aren’t good enough. At some point you have to realise it’s them and we’ve had too many managers with these players to give them any benefit of the doubt anymore.
 
DickDastardly said:
I kinda have hopes he's not a fecking moron.
He doesn't look like a moron.

Let's see what he has at his disposal and let's try to use this team in the best way possible.

Let's start with the GK. Fine, we're stuck with David, feck it.
It is what it is.


What he has at his disposal, and the first thing he needs to resolve is our CB pairing.

Harry fecking Maguire should be behind Phil Jones at this moment.
He's a coward.
He can't play football.
He can't defend.
He's always cought off position.

And he has a square head.

Play Varane and play Martinez. Play Bailly if shit go south. Hell, play Phil the Jones Jones but DO NOT in any case play Harry the feckwit Maguire ever again.


Next, Luke Shaw.
I hope we never see his face again.
Tyrell should keep that spot whatever fecking happens until the rest of the season.

Diogo Dalot.
Upgrade the cnut ASAP.
Promote youth for all i care. Just find a better RB.
And sell AWB.

Midfield.
Fred was shit, but you can see at least the man is hurting - he wants to play better - he needs to play better.
Scotty. Goddamn it man. I love the will, but you suck.

Eriksen - fecked up today. Do better.

Bruno - fecking cnut just keeps regressing game after game. Get your shit straight or lose it.

Sancho - oh Sancho where are though? Could you fecking do something?

Rashford? Feck off.
Elanga? Zero chance of becoming a footballer.

Ronaldo? Feck off as well. Go retire and enjoy the life you made. It's over.


And here we are - who the feck do you play?
You're Erik ten Hag and you're in a shit storm of piss poor players in every fecking position.

START WITH NOT PLAYING HARRY MAGUIRE EVER AGAIN!!!!!!!

That's would be a good start.
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Wow is that all? How about we burn down OT because it leaks while we are at it. You cannot get rid of everyone without replacements… and we struggle to even upgrade our squad. It’s a toxic squad alright but it’s all we have
 
Tbf, he's quite level headed. I don't think he should panic.

The first 2 goals were terrible individual mistakes. The third goal is just football, we'll concede from set pieces occasionally and then when you're 3-0 down and trying to actually score a well drilled team will eventually kill you. It just happened in one game, and considering how fragile the atmosphere around the club is it makes it a lot worse than it is. I hope it doesn't throw him off his gameplan.
 
UnitedSofa said:
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UnitedSofa said:
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UnitedSofa said:
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Seems like the penny has dropped. Hopefully he has been humbled in his belief he can get these lot playing and now fully understands more about the issues here. If he'd have spoke to Ralf he could have saved himself this trouble. Hell, those involved with the football side at the club should have known the issues and should have been pushing big changes. Instead they've hoped ETH is some sort of magic bullet that can turn these players round.

LordSpud said:
We have no say in the matter. We can cheer him but ultimately its a results business and all we heard over the pre season was how hard training was and how much running was going on. That struck alarm bells and lo and behold the 2nd game of the season we are being outrun by Brentford while we fall into the same old same old. I'm telling you these players have had enough of him and want Poch in for the easy ride. Absolutely positive on it.
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We'll both you and the players would be in for a shock if that's what you think. Look at how Poch took Southampton from lowest running team to highest, with the changes being visible pretty quickly. I was told during the managerial selection stage that ETH had this covered too. Yet here we are, lethargic and second to everything.

Kag said:
I said when he arrived that he wouldn’t stand a chance and everything since that point onwards has confirmed it.

I was told to stop being negative. Piss off.
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Why did you believe that, out of interest? ETH himself or those around him?

Cassidy said:
He’ll turn it around because he is a good manager. These are the times he’ll find out who in the squad he can rely on and who he cant.
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I'm sorry but this is part of my main gripe with all this. He could have spoke to Rangnick or any supporter and we'd have told him what he has hopefully now found out. There was absolutely no need for all of this.

I get trying to build up the players, but Ole tried that and it barely lasted. In the end it actually backfired badly because he'd assembled a team of cowards.

BarstoolProphet said:
The outcry would be because he would just replace them with a different underperformer. If, let's say, Iqbal and Savage were given chances instead of being left out completely after a positive pre-season, then more would have accepted losing points.
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Another annoying aspect. I hoped he'd be the type of manager to choose his team based on who has earned it, which both did after pre season.
 
Terrible display and result obviously.

Hoped things wouldn't be this bad. However this is where conviction is tested. If you want change, you need to keep believing and stay supportive in the bad times. Obviously there's not much positives to take from this. It would be silly to try to give this a positive spin. Nevertheless, many individual errors caused this.

First goal, you just can't coach that one. Last goal Maguire just lets his opponent run away from him, causing Martinez having to chase him rather than to occopy the space in the middle (where he could have intercepted the cross). The second and 4th goal are more results of a team that's work in progress. Obviously DDG shouldn't play the ball to Eriksen there, but this is something that can happen when you're trying to transition a team from long ball football to passing it out from the back (even when under pressure). Tough luck that this costs a goal now and this could happen more often, but in all honesty that's the things you have to go through if you want things to change like this. You don't change a counterattacking team to a tiki-taka team overnight without mistakes made. Mistakes, even if costly, are part of that process.

The goal conceded from the set piece is pretty much the same. Organization obviously was very bad there. Eriksen marking Toney is not the right set-up. After that Martinez makes the choice to cover the goalline but is then caught out when the ball isn't headed towards the far corner but squared. He's just out of position at that point as he decided to move backwards to cover the goalline and from there on he stands no chance to win that header. For me the Eriksen/Toney matchup is worse than Martinez making a choice that could have worked but backfired in the end. Moreover, it was also a good corner by Brentford. Nevertheless coaches will always view conceded goals from set plays as mistakes so I'm pretty sure this will be analized thoroughly so things will improve.

For me the most worrying thing was the total helplessness of the team in the first half. There was clearly also something wrong with the mentality / resiliance of this team. They were just overrun and didn't seem to have any fighting spirit. EtH clearly got angry at half time. The second half was much better. Granted that Brentford probably took it down a notch in intensity but they were never going to keep that up for 90 minutes anyway. Besides that United clearly had a different intensity in the second half themselves. United were much better on the ball in the second half and looked like a decent team, whereas in the first half United looked like a League 2 team.

Wonder what EtH is going to do now. This is obviously shocking and he can't have 4 results like this. On the other hand, stepping away from his plan so early doesn't bode well for the future. He'll have to find some kind of middle ground in which he can get the results in on shorter notice, whilst working on the long term plan as well. That may be a very difficult puzzle though.

I'll do a crazy prediction though, United will beat Liverpool next week.
 
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