Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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Sarni said:
He only got Casemiro and Mount. Both may have been club signings not his. He got Amrabat last year but he’s not here anymore. The midfield still needs at least two new signings.
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Casemiro
Eriksen
Amrabat
Mount
Sabitzer
Promoted Mainoo who is great
He's had Bruno who is great


My point is, at some point you'd expect a semi competent looking midfield out of all this lot, but it's never really happened. Solid enough first season but never any control over games really. Other teams would cream themselves if they had some of those players.
 
Sarni said:
We weren’t great but we weren’t horrible either. We were better than we were against them in the same fixture last year, much better. I told you before the game that I wouldn’t expect us to steamroll Fulham, for that matter I don’t expect us to have it easy against many of PL teams, but in the end we got the win and we deserved it.
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You just said we should have scored 3?
 
Sarni said:
We had many opportunities.
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So we should have won convincingly without, in my opinion, really playing that well. I never said we'd 'steamroller' them, as you put it. I just thought we'd be a bit more convincing in our play and build some momentum. I felt it was just reminiscent of last season really in terms of the setup, the way we tried to break them down, the inconsistent press, looking open on counters etc.
 
pocco said:
So we should have won convincingly without, in my opinion, really playing that well. I never said we'd 'steamroller' them, as you put it. I just thought we'd be a bit more convincing in our play and build some momentum. I felt it was just reminiscent of last season really in terms of the setup, the way we tried to break them down, the inconsistent press, looking open on counters etc.
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Honestly I didn't think we looked nearly as open on counters. Their two best counters came from individual errors that fecked us, which is a far cry from teams just playing 2 passes and end up bearing down on goal without us doing anything "wrong".

I'm more concerned with the game state from 65th minute on, where we reverted back to this uber direct "counter everything" style that just served 0 purpose but to ultimately ensure the game didn't end in a draw.
 
Definite improvement in our style of football but let's see if it shows against a better Brighton team or we revert to type.
 
We were playing kamikaze football last season but this year the manager must know if we wobble too much he’s gone. I expect us to start grinding games out a lot more often. I think we would all rather win 1-0 than draw 4-4. I think we will be a lot more together this season and once it clicks we will become a lot more robust and tougher for smaller clubs to cause upsets against us so frequently. I actually fancy us to start really hammering teams who come at us again. We just need as many players who will fully fight it out and earn the right of the team to dictate play. We don’t need a perfect team, just a few potent attackers and one of the hardest working teams in the world behind them.
 
The Hilton said:
That's moving the goal posts though, as my post and the post I was replying to were clearly referring to the first half, in which the old hairs were nowhere to be seen.

After our changes we were more open no doubt, although still not as isn't as we had been last season, but to a certain extent that has to be expected given we were chasing the game due to our poor finishing.
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What are you even on about? How am I moving the goal posts?

I said that both halves showed that the old bad habits were still there, yes, even in the first half (i.e - we started off poorly, there were periods where we looked shaky and disjointed, lack of consistent midfield control, etc). You are just making up excuses.

The positives this time around were that our pressing looked much more effective and our defending was very strong overall so, that gives me hope that the lingering issues will be fixed as the season progresses.

Happy to get the win but let's be honest, it was at best a decent performance with alot to improve on.
 
Werd. said:
What are you even on about? How am I moving the goal posts?

I said that both halves showed that the old bad habits were still there, yes, even in the first half (i.e - we started off poorly, there were periods where we looked shaky and disjointed, lack of consistent midfield control, etc). You are just making up excuses.

The positives this time around were that our pressing looked much more effective and our defending was very strong overall so, that gives me hope that the lingering issues will be fixed as the season progresses.

Happy to get the win but let's be honest, it was at best a decent performance with alot to improve on.
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First game of the season after quite a few players missed pre season tour
 
Cassidy said:
First game of the season after quite a few players missed pre season tour
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Well like I said, there is still alot to improve on and hope, that the lingering issues can be fixed as the season progresses.

Also, it is Ten Hag's 3rd season now. You would want to hope that his 'game model' becomes evident quite quickly or else, if we aren't improving, we are just going backwards.
 
Werd. said:
What are you even on about? How am I moving the goal posts?

I said that both halves showed that the old bad habits were still there, yes, even in the first half (i.e - we started off poorly, there were periods where we looked shaky and disjointed, lack of consistent midfield control, etc). You are just making up excuses.

The positives this time around were that our pressing looked much more effective and our defending was very strong overall so, that gives me hope that the lingering issues will be fixed as the season progresses.

Happy to get the win but let's be honest, it was at best a decent performance with alot to improve on.
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What you said was that the second half showed that old habits are still there. For the avoidance of doubt, here's your post:

Werd. said:
I'm sorry, what? The second half also showed the old habits are still there.
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Given that the original post of mine that you took umbrage with was made at half time, and referred to the first half (as the second hadn't happened yet), moving the goal posts is accurate

I somewhat agree with you about the second half and the performance overall, we got messy after the subs and the team lost it's structure a bit, which could be described as old habits, but up until that point we'd looked much better than last season. Even when Fulham were on top for the first 15 minutes, we were a lot more solid in our press and structure than last season.
 
The Hilton said:
What you said was that the second half showed that old habits are still there. For the avoidance of doubt, here's your post:



Given that the original post of mine that you took umbrage with was made at half time, and referred to the first half (as the second hadn't happened yet), moving the goal posts is accurate
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That's why I said ALSO in that post you quoted. Meaning both the first half AND second half. So no, I didn't move the goal posts, I was just further emphasizing my original point.
 
Want him to succeed at United. He is a good guy, good manager and has been really unlucky with the team in the last two seasons.

Hopefully we have no major injuries this season and he will be able to show a drastic improvement in United's play.
 
No team is the finished article in the first match of the season. Thought we looked alright, nothing spectacular, but improved on last seasons opening day. I’m quietly hopeful.
 
I mean if we finished off the chances we created we easily come away with a 4-0. Everyone would be singing his praises. Thought we played well in the first half and deserved to be ahead but our finishing was atrocious. Second half not so much, chaos ball with end to end stuff where they could have easily nicked a goal. Mainoo Bruno and Casemiro midfield just isn’t going to work. Casemiro had a good game but he just isn’t fast enough or agile enough and I’m afraid against better opposition it’ll be very apparent. We need Ugarte or someone of that ilk very badly to have some quality in that position.
 
It’s a shame the team rarely ever gets an easy night, all the wins come by never giving up and throwing more players on until they get the breakthrough.

If Bruno scored early then you want to see them relax and enjoy the night. But it tends to play out like it did against Fulham more often than not.

Which is a credit to them, but for the development you would like to see a few more 3-0’s or easy victories.
 
Pre season I looked at a few areas that he needed to improve us on sharply .

Pressing, attacking cohesion, defensive transitions, penalty box defending and attacking and defending set pieces.

Six key areas, last night there was an improvement in just two.

Our pressing was very efficient in the last 25 mins of the first half and actually good to watch. Trouble is once legs started going it failed in the second half and Fulham got out far too easily. And there was no plan to negate this.

Our penalty box defending was excellent to be fair. But Fulham had 22 touches in our box which is unacceptable and that’s because we failed in defensive transitions over and over.
We were caused so many problems from set pieces whilst not really threatening on ours. And our efficiency and composure in attacking areas was awful.

It’s simple we have to be so much better in these areas, not just a little bit better. And if he doesn’t fix it fast he’ll be gone by winter.
 
Found it strange that he changed shape once he made the initial 2 subs. We didn't play nearly as well when he did that and I didn't think it was really necessary, especially as the 4-2-2-2 gave us a lot more control.

Zirkzee and garnacho for me could have easily been like for like swaps with mount and diallo
 
ErikElevenHag said:
Found it strange that he changed shape once he made the initial 2 subs. We didn't play nearly as well when he did that and I didn't think it was really necessary, especially as the 4-2-2-2 gave us a lot more control.

Zirkzee and garnacho for me could have easily been like for like swaps with mount and diallo
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What shape change? Didnt notice any. Do you mean we went 4-2-3-1?

I'm happy with yesterday's performance. Good off the ball, decent on it. Need to convert our chances. This 4-4-2 suits our team much more than the suicidal 4-1-4-1 from last season. I think new backroom staff has been a welcome change.
 
It will be interesting to see if we stick with the 4-2-2-2/4-2-4/4-4-2 when Højlund gets back. His pressing and running off the ball might suit the system, but it will be interesting in possesion. Could he maybe play from the left, in Rashfords position? He'd certainly have the opportunity to run in behind from that position and he did tend to drift out to the left flank at Atalanta.
 
Who's Kissing Cameras? said:
Stop this. Show the true colours. That was horrid.
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The first 15 minutes was bad. The final 30 minutes was chaotic. The 45 minutes in the middle was good, just with a lack of cutting edge.

Overall it was an improvement over most of last year. We'll see how things develop over the next few months and whether we improve, get worse or stay the same.
 
MadDogg said:
The first 15 minutes was bad. The final 30 minutes was chaotic. The 45 minutes in the middle was good, just with a lack of cutting edge.

Overall it was an improvement over most of last year. We'll see how things develop over the next few months and whether we improve, get worse or stay the same.
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Agreed with this.
 
Werd. said:
That's why I said ALSO in that post you quoted. Meaning both the first half AND second half. So no, I didn't move the goal posts, I was just further emphasizing my original point.
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Sure, but that was in disagreement with my post that they weren't present in the first half. You'd stated, at half time, that we were using the same suicidal tactics in the first half. That simply isn't true.

Anyway once the hyperbole was out of the way it looks like we're generally in agreement, good stuff, deserved win, but room for improvement, especially in the second half for ~15 minutes after the subs.
 
The Hilton said:
Sure, but that was in disagreement with my post that they weren't present in the first half. You'd stated, at half time, that we were using the same suicidal tactics in the first half. That simply isn't true.
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Err no, I made that post within the first 20 minutes of the game (not at half time) when things were looking chaotic. So yes, it was true at the time because we were looking shaky and disjointed but then things clicked for the rest of the first half, only for the chaos to return again in the second half.

We are a work in progress with alot of improvement to be made still.
 
MadDogg said:
The first 15 minutes was bad. The final 30 minutes was chaotic. The 45 minutes in the middle was good, just with a lack of cutting edge.

Overall it was an improvement over most of last year. We'll see how things develop over the next few months and whether we improve, get worse or stay the same.
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Exactly. It was an improved performance and given our disjointed preseason, players returning from tournaments and horrible injuries we have to deal with (again) it was really good, nothing to complain about.
 
Smores said:
I give him see leeway as it's not his first language but he always speaks in this negative/excuse manner and it can't do the team any good.

Just show some fecking positivity for a change, almost makes me miss LvG as at least he'd be positive.
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It is not what he said. He was asked whether we'd be up to speed and see said we wouldn't buy neither would anyone

Edit: Oops! Didn't realise I was coming on to a conversation a number of pages late! :lol:
 
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RuudTom83 said:
It’s a shame the team rarely ever gets an easy night, all the wins come by never giving up and throwing more players on until they get the breakthrough.

If Bruno scored early then you want to see them relax and enjoy the night. But it tends to play out like it did against Fulham more often than not.

Which is a credit to them, but for the development you would like to see a few more 3-0’s or easy victories.
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I don't think we will see that level of progress in results because it comes from being consistent in performances which is down to coaching, instructions etc.

Erik will not be a manager United dominate teams under, having this expectation is utterly unrealistic and will foster disappointment. It's already his third season and there's no evidence of this.

Grinding results will be the anthesis of his management which is acceptable so long as he's delivering silverware and or challenging for a UCL spot.
 
MadDogg said:
The first 15 minutes was bad. The final 30 minutes was chaotic. The 45 minutes in the middle was good, just with a lack of cutting edge.

Overall it was an improvement over most of last year. We'll see how things develop over the next few months and whether we improve, get worse or stay the same.
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The thing is most high levels games follow these rhythms and it’s the time when your on top that you have to score. Being decisive when you have momentum can be so crucial. Last season we struggled to get to the 45 min period because we lost early goals then confidence.


As you say though we can see the improvements and with better match fitness and players we can do better hopefully this season.
 
Werd. said:
Err no, I made that post within the first 20 minutes of the game (not at half time) when things were looking chaotic. So yes, it was true at the time because we were looking shaky and disjointed but then things clicked for the rest of the first half, only for the chaos to return again in the second half.

We are a work in progress with alot of improvement to be made still.
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This discussion started because of the statement you made that nothing had changed and that it was the same suicide tactics as last season. That remains entirely false hyperbole. Sometimes it's best to hold one's hands up and accept we all exaggerate in the heat of the moment, rather than doubling down.

As for being a work in progress, completely agree, although we were comfortably deserving winners last night.
 
The Hilton said:
This discussion started because of the statement you made that nothing had changed and that it was the same suicide tactics as last season. That remains entirely false hyperbole.
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For the millionth time, yes, in the FIRST 15 MINUTES OR SO (when I made the original post), it certainly looked that way and it's not 'false hyperbole' as you put it. In fact, others have also mentioned how bad that period of the game was, yet, you seem to think it was all good.

Anyway, you may not agree, and that's fine. Either way, let's hope there is alot more improvement to come this season.
 
He's a decent manager, Utd are a circus, very hard job. He's done well I think especially in the cup wins.

Was hoping you'd replace him with Southgate tbh.
 
Just because it was the opening day, I couldn't help but compare with Wolves last season. There were some worrying similarities, but from an attacking perspective we created a lot more.

Probably 3-1 would have been a more representative result. If Fulham had composure and quality, they would have scored.

We need to be a lot more clinical this season than last. If we get the goals, then you can afford to have those open moments where you're a little exposed and we won't be punished as much.

Frustrating though that we're starting another season and Hojlund is injured, new signings are either injured or getting up to match fitness, and there still looks to be lingering problems from last season that haven't been addressed.

It's very had to draw any conclusions from the opening game of the season, but I'm not witnessing EtH changing his approach too much from last season. The Mount / Bruno set up is only because Zirkzee is not fully ready and Hojlund is injured. One will drop to the bench, and I still see us desperately exposed in midfield against better opposition.
 
Werd. said:
For the millionth time, yes, in the FIRST 15 MINUTES OR SO (when I made the original post), it certainly looked that way and it's not 'false hyperbole' as you put it. In fact, others have also mentioned how bad that period of the game was, yet, you seem to think it was all good.

Anyway, you may not agree, and that's fine. Either way, let's hope there is alot more improvement to come this season.
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You're deliberately misrepresenting my point to defend your hyperbole. I don't think we started well, but it was unquestionably a different setup compared to last season. Your statement was this:

Werd. said:
Seems like he didn't learn one bit from last season. Same suicidal tactics with clear weak links.
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This statement is objectively false. Even though we started badly, it's quite clearly a different system.

Again, the adult thing to do here is to put your hands up and admit you got a bit silly with that post, but what you wanted to say was that you were disappointed with how we started, as most of us were.
 
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