Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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JonIrenicus said:
From 8th to 7th or even 5th isn't an upgrade. That's beside the point that I don't agree that Tuchel is an upgrade whatsoever nor do I believe he can be a long-term manager here. A slight bump to top 4 with zero trophies then a complete collapse in the second season in which he goes out guns blazing and we're right back to square one.


Monetary reasons is a nonsensical argument since ETH is in the last year of his contract and it certainly wouldn't really cost that much to sack him. Not to mention he is apparently discussing a new contract.


Facts & stats don't say I'm wrong. In fact I'd argue ETH was in a better position than Klopp. Klopp left Dortmund at an all time low, ETH left Ajax at an all time high. It's as simple as that. You still harp about Klopp being more accomplished yet stats don't back you up, yet you conviniently use stats to showcase how this was supposedly our worst season ever. Hypocrisy at its finest.


You don't have to engage because you don't have any arguments that support your notion.


I'm just using your logic. You used stats as the be all end all of why the last season is our worst, which is a complete nonsense, and you refuse to budge from it because... well, looking at the numbers is all that matters. You continue to spout that last season was our worst campaign ever which is completely nonsensical. And I tried to explain to you why and you keep repeating the same thing over and over without anything to back it up (except just looking at the stats). But apparently same stats don't really appeal to you when it comes to the ETH/Klopp post-Ajax/Dortmund argument. Then they are unimportant.


You can keep repeating this over and over again until the cows come home. Won't make it true.



One match isn't an entire season.
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I thought I understood you, but disagreed. Now I’m not sure I even understand.

Are you saying that winning the relatively weak Dutch league with Ajax, by far the biggest Dutch club, is as impressive as winning the stronger German league against Bayern, by far Germany's biggest club? If so, how have you arrived at that conclusion?

Also, are you saying that 23/24 wasn't United's worst PL campaign? If so, once again, what has lead you to believe that?
 
Sarni said:
Well it all depends on where the squad is. If we fail to address key issues by August, which seems entirely plausible with limited budget and no structure in place yet, that will also impact how we start the season.

There are some glaring weaknesses that need to be addressed. It’s a team that finished 8th last year and arguably it was higher than we deserved too. Many of the teams around us are going to improve, get healthier, get better players in. Bournemouth and Palace both finished below us last year but were actually better towards the second half of season so could be in contention.
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Also, Bournemouth and Palace? Really? How can you be concerned about them and also think that ETH is the man for the job?!?
 
devilsadvoca8 said:
Why? Because he's dutch? This is a lazy correlation. Zirkzee has had a good season and was a big reason Bologna played so well so everyone can see why we'd be after him. He's a perfect option to dovetail with Hojlund as he offers something different and can play with Hojlund if needed too. Imagine 20 mins to go we need a goal and can have those two on the pitch. We didn't have that option last season. We haven't since Cavani was here with Martial on fire too.
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If he isn't just a slightly polished Weghorst, I can imagine that working out well. Problem is I've little to no faith in ETH's ability to assess that, so really hope he's not the focal point of our interest.
 
Daydreamer said:
Also, Bournemouth and Palace? Really? How can you be concerned about them and also think that ETH is the man for the job?!?
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Palace in particular have a strong team. Their front 3 is probably better than ours.
 
At some point even the naysayers will have to accept he ll be here for next season (barring a contract agreement ofc) and we can go back to also criticizing the players, the clubs management, and leaky OT roof.
 
Redplane said:
At some point even the naysayers will have to accept he ll be here for next season (barring a contract agreement ofc) and we can go back to also criticizing the players, the clubs management, and leaky OT roof.
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Why do these things need to be mutually exclusive?

There's more than enough blame to go around for the sorry state of the club :lol:
 
Rolaholic said:
They just have a really good manager now, they looked pants under Vieira and Woy.
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I know its all about Glasner right now but people get carried away too easily now. 10 good games and overreactions start.

I have seen alot of managers have new manager bounce, hell I saw it at United with Ole.
 
If Fulham thrash us in the home opening match, questions about the manager’s management would be warranted.
 
horsechoker said:
If ten Hag gets us relegated we'd need to have a serious think about whether he should be offered a new contract.
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He won't get us relegated and barring a comfortable top 4 finish next season he's not getting a new deal if he signs one this year.
 
romufc said:
I know its all about Glasner right now but people get carried away too easily now. 10 good games and overreactions start.

I have seen alot of managers have new manager bounce, hell I saw it at United with Ole.
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You should've heard the palace fans on talksport raving about viera ,after his appointment , he's different level to woy , you can see the patterns etc etc . 1 year later the same guys were phoning in calling him a clown begging for woy back .

Glasner may well end up good , the real work that has happened at Palace has been done by Dougie Freedman in recruitment . They have good aged players who have the ability to take palace to a higher level .
 
horsechoker said:
If ten Hag gets us relegated we'd need to have a serious think about whether he should be offered a new contract.
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I think maybe not, his style won't work well in the Championship. Mourinho will be a better choice.
 
Judas said:
Why are you even thinking or potentially worrying about the opening game already? are you ok?
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Because he is a United fan and that will be United's next official game? Why should it be weird to think about that?
 
stefan92 said:
Because he is a United fan and that will be United's next official game? Why should it be weird to think about that?
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It's June 19th, it's what two months away? We don't have a clue what our squad will even look like, and instead of looking at it as an exciting fresh start, it's a negative slant. I for one am exhausted from the mood on here, and I wanted Ten Hag out!
 
Sarni said:
Eze, Olise... I'd definitely take them both. Mateta v Hojlund, don't know, Mateta looked awesome towards the end of last season.
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So You would take Mateta over Hojlund because he looked good for 6 months?
 
Kirk lazarus said:
You should've heard the palace fans on talksport raving about viera ,after his appointment , he's different level to woy , you can see the patterns etc etc . 1 year later the same guys were phoning in calling him a clown begging for woy back .

Glasner may well end up good , the real work that has happened at Palace has been done by Dougie Freedman in recruitment . They have good aged players who have the ability to take palace to a higher level .
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Exactly. I see alot of fans talking about us being fickle and what not but look at everyone raving about Palace, the players after a dozen few games.

The Recruitment is where they have exceled, look at the players, Guehi, Anderson, Wharton, Ollise, Eze. Its all to do with that.
 
TsuWave said:
You can't just try to re-write what an upgrade is :lol: It's a very simple notion. I don't know why you're struggling with it.
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I'm tired of this. You just keep repeating the same thing over and over with zero arguments to anything you say and whenever countered just reply "he-he, i don't understand you", then you continue as usual

Daydreamer said:
I thought I understood you, but disagreed. Now I’m not sure I even understand.

Are you saying that winning the relatively weak Dutch league with Ajax, by far the biggest Dutch club, is as impressive as winning the stronger German league against Bayern, by far Germany's biggest club? If so, how have you arrived at that conclusion?
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You don't know what you're talking about. No, Ajax isn't by far the biggest club. Yes, historically they are the most successful, but in the past 20 years they've lost the league way more than they have won it. In fact, in 18 years they have only won the title 6 times prior to ETH, 4 with him and 0 after him. 10 in 24 years in total. In contrast Bayern has won the titles 17 times in the past 24 years. But the thing is Bayern's dominance didn't really come until Heynckes where they won like 10 straight titles. Before that they were trading the leagues. What Klopp did was impressive, but perspective is important here. I don't think Klopp, and as I said I do believe he is the best manager in the world, would have ever won the title if he had to compete with Heynckes or Guardiola's Bayern.

Also, are you saying that 23/24 wasn't United's worst PL campaign? If so, once again, what has lead you to believe that?
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What leads me to believe that is that in the 2013/2014 campaign we went from champions to 7th and utterly got trashed by every team in the league with none of the excuses or outside issues ETH had to dfeal with. We became a laughing stock of the world. In comparison our last season wasn't anything really out of the ordinary compared to what we have had in the past 10 years. Is it really that much worse compared to Mourinho's last season meltdown or Ole/Rangnick season? It's the same shit, only difference is that ETH didn't really take a well functioning team in the first place. Prior to ETH we finished 6th with even less points and I still wouldn't count that season as worse than the Moyes one.
erikcred said:
So... not never? Is all this just a language issue? Would explain a lot of your other posts. Like when you say ETH at the end of his Ajax term was more highly regarded than Klopp at the end of his Dortmund tenure, you mean the opposite?
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I think it's pretty clear what I meant and in relation to what. It's not my problem your epic "gotcha" moment is singling out one match when it was obvious that I was talking about league team performance as a whole, not whether someone bottled a match.
 
JonIrenicus said:
I think it's pretty clear what I meant and in relation to what. It's not my problem your epic "gotcha" moment is singling out one match when it was obvious that I was talking about league team performance as a whole, not whether someone bottled a match.
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Excellent save. They only collapsed in the most important match of their season and not in other games.
 
romufc said:
So You would take Mateta over Hojlund because he looked good for 6 months?
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Yeah I would say Mateta is the better player currently. Hojlund might have the potential to become better than him though.
 
romufc said:
So he is better because of 3 good months :lol:
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Better form is all what's relevant when we talk about potential results in the first matches next season. Of course a lot of transfer activity will happen until then and there is no guarantee that Crystal Palace can keep their momentum in the new season, but if they do, they absolutely are a tough to beat team. I really don't get why @Sarni gets so much trouble for that opinion.
 
stefan92 said:
Better form is all what's relevant when we talk about potential results in the first matches next season. Of course a lot of transfer activity will happen until then and there is no guarantee that Crystal Palace can keep their momentum in the new season, but if they do, they absolutely are a tough to beat team. I really don't get why @Sarni gets so much trouble for that opinion.
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I mean that goes for every team in the PL.. keep momentum and if they do they are tough to beat, applies to literally every team.

There is 6 months evidence of Mateta Olisse Eze playing up top and people getting carried away.
 
JonIrenicus said:
I'm tired of this. You just keep repeating the same thing over and over with zero arguments to anything you say and whenever countered just reply "he-he, i don't understand you", then you continue as usual


You don't know what you're talking about. No, Ajax isn't by far the biggest club. Yes, historically they are the most successful, but in the past 20 years they've lost the league way more than they have won it. In fact, in 18 years they have only won the title 6 times prior to ETH, 4 with him and 0 after him. 10 in 24 years in total. In contrast Bayern has won the titles 17 times in the past 24 years. But the thing is Bayern's dominance didn't really come until Heynckes where they won like 10 straight titles. Before that they were trading the leagues. What Klopp did was impressive, but perspective is important here. I don't think Klopp, and as I said I do believe he is the best manager in the world, would have ever won the title if he had to compete with Heynckes or Guardiola's Bayern.


What leads me to believe that is that in the 2013/2014 campaign we went from champions to 7th and utterly got trashed by every team in the league with none of the excuses or outside issues ETH had to dfeal with. We became a laughing stock of the world. In comparison our last season wasn't anything really out of the ordinary compared to what we have had in the past 10 years. Is it really that much worse compared to Mourinho's last season meltdown or Ole/Rangnick season? It's the same shit, only difference is that ETH didn't really take a well functioning team in the first place. Prior to ETH we finished 6th with even less points and I still wouldn't count that season as worse than the Moyes one.

I think it's pretty clear what I meant and in relation to what. It's not my problem your epic "gotcha" moment is singling out one match when it was obvious that I was talking about league team performance as a whole, not whether someone bottled a match.
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Did they win 4 with Ten Hag though?
 
Judas said:
Why are you even thinking or potentially worrying about the opening game already? are you ok?
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I’m doing great. How are you doing these days?

The opening game is, by definition, coming up very quickly. Last summer we all saw the shambles of our horrific preseason form, which many of us worried was an omen of the horrific season ahead, which came to pass as predicted. It’s not an axiomatic certainty that a poor preseason will be followed by a poor season, but a poor preseason is never a good thing.

I was in the ETH in camp, but the ETH outers had a strong argument. Except for the FA Cup final, there were no discernible tactics in our play and we got punked by the likes of Fulham and Palace and squeaked out undeserved wins over the likes of Wolves. What was served up last season cannot be served up again and if we’re struggling out of the gate, the squad will be wrecked psychologically.
 
JonIrenicus said:
You don't know what you're talking about. No, Ajax isn't by far the biggest club. Yes, historically they are the most successful, but in the past 20 years they've lost the league way more than they have won it. In fact, in 18 years they have only won the title 6 times prior to ETH, 4 with him and 0 after him. 10 in 24 years in total. In contrast Bayern has won the titles 17 times in the past 24 years. But the thing is Bayern's dominance didn't really come until Heynckes where they won like 10 straight titles. Before that they were trading the leagues. What Klopp did was impressive, but perspective is important here. I don't think Klopp, and as I said I do believe he is the best manager in the world, would have ever won the title if he had to compete with Heynckes or Guardiola's Bayern.

What leads me to believe that is that in the 2013/2014 campaign we went from champions to 7th and utterly got trashed by every team in the league with none of the excuses or outside issues ETH had to dfeal with. We became a laughing stock of the world. In comparison our last season wasn't anything really out of the ordinary compared to what we have had in the past 10 years. Is it really that much worse compared to Mourinho's last season meltdown or Ole/Rangnick season? It's the same shit, only difference is that ETH didn't really take a well functioning team in the first place. Prior to ETH we finished 6th with even less points and I still wouldn't count that season as worse than the Moyes one.
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You say I don't know what I'm talking about... but don't actually refute any of my points.
  • Eredivise is a weaker league than the Bundesliga.
  • Ajax are the biggest club in the Netherlands.
  • Bayern are the biggest club in Germany
That's not even mentioning the fact that Klopp had to deal with Bayern poaching his best players.

23/24 was United's worst PL season. 13/14 may have made you feel subjectively worse, but that says more about how great SAF was than it does about how the team fared. United finished 8th (their worst ever PL finish) and - as you yourself have said - were lucky to do so.
  • Worst league position
  • Worst points total
  • Worst goal difference
  • Worst performances
If we want to say that those don't add up to the worst season, we can. Bit of a stretch, though.
 
lex talionis said:
If Fulham thrash us in the home opening match, questions about the manager’s management would be warranted.
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If something terrible happens it will be terrible. Excellent analysis.

On the flip side if we hammer everyone it'll be great.

Great thread this.
 
Sarni said:
Eze, Olise... I'd definitely take them both. Mateta v Hojlund, don't know, Mateta looked awesome towards the end of last season.
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His total goal haul after his purple patch looks respectable. In his previous 3 seasons he scored 1, 7 and 2 goals.
 
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