Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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I would have understood him being sacked, and also understand him staying. I think it's a reasonable decision all in all, especially when there aren't really any obvious managerial upgrades available to us at this time.

Hoping that the faith in him will be rewarded
 
Valencia Shin Crosses said:
I'm not being a miserable sod? :lol:

I'm not going to lie and say I'm thrilled about us sticking with ETH obviously, but like I said I've moved on. I just don't want to see standards dropping even more to where we are sat excusing a poor 3rd season under a manager because of certain events. I've already said I'll be thrilled to be wrong if we came out of the gate looking transformed after this summer with fresh faces and a healthy squad playing great football.
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Apologies. The doom and gloom is just boring at his point.
 
romufc said:
Really? You dont think we can improve by 10 points?
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Just having Martinez fit all season would probably have got the team an extra 10 points this season.

Imagine if Rashford scored an extra 10 league goals this season, he scored 7 and scored 17 last season.

Imagine if ETH was able to play Shaw, Martinez, Varane, Dalot at the back for 10 games in a row instead of the max of 2 -3 games at best.

For a team like ours, I don't think a lot is required to gain an extra 10 points. The best players just need to stay fit and gain a bit of form.
 
So who did people want to see appointed once Tuchel was firmly off the table then? Personally once he went I openly said I will back keeping the manager.
 
croadyman said:
Would have been interesting to see Tuchel, however clearly they couldn't find common ground. I never felt De Zerbi was much of an upgrade on Erik which probably sounds daft
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Yeah RDZ is a coinflip for me. Clearly a good technical/structural coach but he also seems extremely one dimensional in that he never seems to be able to adapt if teams are thwarting his plan A. I would have understood the logic if he was the choice but also wouldn't have been jumping for joy at the appointment.
 
Like I said last night and have been saying for ages. He has a veto. That’s why the proposed new contract is necessary.

 
Borninthe80ts said:
It’s cool if you want to list the bad times but I’m sure I could list games too where we’ve beat teams who are currently better then us or where we played well too.

My question wasn’t if there were poor moments but why are people stupid for trying to find the positives or rational?

As has been stated injuries will affect the team whether people want to admit it or not. It also showed when other teams lost comparative player too. This also with issues over Greenwood, Antony and Sancho. Also key players playing inconsistent and trying to implement new players. So it wasn’t just injuries that unsettled the team.

As much as the buck does stop with the manager there’s also intangibles that could have meant we were Europea league champions the season before and even this season when we got some form a key player then got injured again.

Nobody is saying that the manager hasn’t made mistakes or that he couldn’t have done better at times. However they also see that there were issues he couldn’t predict or had to react too. If these issues can be resolved some can see that the work done in season one can be built upon hopefully. Whether it happens remains to be seen but saying it won’t from now is just assuming the worse.
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The problem with your post is its too structured for people to understand.

Injuries only affect other clubs, we should be able to play the a way to win the title even with multiple injuries, we are manutd, that is the standard...

Its not fans concern that Ten Hag used the youth and integrated youth, but when we get managers who don't use youth, they will have a go the other way.

When you play a season where your 18 year old who is meant to start the season is injured for 4 months in pre season, when your signing (Mount) is injured all season, when you rely on young players (Garnacho, Hojlund), you expect them to be consistent? I mean they are players in their 2nd and 3rd seasons, playing for a big club with expectations.

People say 1 injury to Licha and we finished? NO. When Lisandro got injured, Shaw and Malacia were injured, meaning that we are playing with 4 right footed players, when the manager has said multiple times for balance he needs a left footed LCB.

We have injuries all over the place, Casemiro, Maguire, AWB, Amrabat, Mainoo to add to the others.

Other teams have had multiple injuries and those teams have had bad seasons too. People underestimate the effects of consistent injuries.
 
Valencia Shin Crosses said:
Yeah RDZ is a coinflip for me. Clearly a good technical/structural coach but he also seems extremely one dimensional in that he never seems to be able to adapt if teams are thwarting his plan A. I would have understood the logic if he was the choice but also wouldn't have been jumping for joy at the appointment.
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Yeah those hammerings last season were concerning
 
The holy trinity 68 said:
Just having Martinez fit all season would probably have got the team an extra 10 points this season.

Imagine if Rashford scored an extra 10 league goals this season, he scored 7 and scored 17 last season.

Imagine if ETH was able to play Shaw, Martinez, Varane, Dalot at the back for 10 games in a row instead of the max of 2 -3 games at best.

For a team like ours, I don't think a lot is required to gain an extra 10 points. The best players just need to stay fit and gain a bit of form.
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Exactly. That is my point, with a fully fit squad we would have got those extra 10 points.

I know it might sound like excuses but I recall at the start of last season, we were hard done by VAR alot in the opening few games. Alot of questionable VAR decisions went against us, lets not forget that too.

Fans are quick to point the VAR decision against Coventry which was offside but wont mention the AWB handball in the same game which was questionable.
 
I'm prepared to look past the results (for now), what worries me more is I can't understand how the style he's choosing to play is going to be successful, as well as his frequent delusional statements (such as not being worried by the team allowing almost as many shots as the worst side in PL history).

Anyway, here we are, not only retaining but extending a manager the board was so unsure of they took weeks to clarify whether he was getting sacked while more or less publicly pursuing several high profile replacements. Citing reasons that conspicuously omit the one that was now supposed to matter the most - fitting into a common club-wide vision of what sort of football to play, which no one clearly has any idea about. Heading into a summer of recruitment for which there is apparently little PSR space, and with no CEO or DoF in place. I mean, what's not to like. :nervous:
 
moses said:
Apologies. The doom and gloom is just boring at his point.
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Yeah it's why I tried staying out of the thread in recent weeks as I'd find myself getting sucked back into the same boring arguments that everyone on either side has laid out for months. At this point the pressure falls on INEOS to really deliver some quality business (both buying and selling) in the market this summer because I don't think many on either side of the ETH debate are happy with how the entire thing has been handled. I want to see a change in how we go about our targets to really get some optimism back in me, us dithering Glazers style until August will REALLY set my mood back :lol:
 
Sarni said:
Clear tactical issues we had last year.
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I think he is a great tactical manager. He has proven it time and time again before joining United and during his first season. Last season was a freak occurance and I think he mistakenly thought that he could just instill the possession type philosophy he used in Ajax with the players we have just by forcing them to play it. Obviously it was a disaster. It doesn't work that way. The first season he played it very pragmatic after our trouncing in the beginning, but this season he persisted. I think we desperately need a couple of possession based players before we start to dominate teams. Too many players in this squad are wasteful and lethargic in order to recreate his Ajax side. Doesn't help that everyone from this squad is made of glass.
 
croadyman said:
Would have been interesting to see Tuchel, however clearly they couldn't find common ground. I never felt De Zerbi was much of an upgrade on Erik which probably sounds daft
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I didn't want either of those. Mckenna or Motta were my two top choices as I saw them as young up and coming managers with huge potential. Thought, INEOS would like to start their regime with someone like that who can build the team while they are building other aspects of the club.

But it is what it is. I hope both are in play and show their mettle with their respective clubs and are ready by the time we are looking for a new manager.
 
croadyman said:
So who did people want to see appointed once Tuchel was firmly off the table then? Personally once he went I openly said I will back keeping the manager.
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Out of the options left I was most intrigued by Thomas Frank. It's would've been a gamble but I believe he's a good coach.
 
Valencia Shin Crosses said:
Yeah it's why I tried staying out of the thread in recent weeks as I'd find myself getting sucked back into the same boring arguments that everyone on either side has laid out for months. At this point the pressure falls on INEOS to really deliver some quality business (both buying and selling) in the market this summer because I don't think many on either side of the ETH debate are happy with how the entire thing has been handled. I want to see a change in how we go about our targets to really get some optimism back in me, us dithering Glazers style until August will REALLY set my mood back :lol:
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Yes we need to complete some deals with very minimal fuss and not turn everything into a transfer saga but that's probably too much to ask
 
It’s a shambles, he’s clearly only still here he takes Sir Jim couldn’t fix it. He’s courted Tuchel , McKenna, Poch and god knows who else, they won’t come here so he’s got no real other choice but to stick with ETH

It’s a disgrace on a personal level for ETH, how must he feel after his jobs been whored out ? Sir Jim should just stick to bullying administrative staff and sacking them, I’m beginning to despise the “man”

We’ve got a new Ringmaster but the same old circus . . .
 
Kag said:
The most unconvincing people in all of this would appear to be the managers spoken to by INEOS. If there was an outstanding candidate then they would have pulled the trigger. Too many red flags between them.
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Whilst this may be true, who's the mythical manager who might be available if they have to pull the trigger on him in 6 months, or before? Or even next summer?

There are arguably two outstanding managers in world football currently, being Pep and Klopp, neither of whom are every likely to manage United. So, as usual in the manager market there's a host of potentially top class managers, all of whom will have red flags; either inexperience at the top level, or failures at a club. The situation will be the same next summer, and probably the summer after. Other clubs will take a punt on some of those managers, just like United did with Ten Hag. City may be in the market.

They may have made the right long term call in not going with one of the other candidates but the suggestion (albeit in the press) that they'd decided to sack him and have now changed their mind is concerning. If they're going to be a success they need to be decisive because football moves fast. All succesful clubs need to identify and appoint new managers from the same pool.
 
So what happens if he refuses to give up his veto? Back to the chopping block? I’d like to think it’s something that has been verbally agreed already otherwise we may as well just keep looking for a new manager.
 
Tom Van Persie said:
Makes sense.
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For ten Hag, maybe. But not for the club. The whole "veto over transfers" approach is just emblematic of how dysfunctional we are.
In a well-run club, a situation in which the manager would make use of that power would not arise. Also not really for ten Hag either, because he's not going to solidify his position by setting himself against the transfer system the club wants to put in place. Get with the program here.
 
Tom Van Persie said:
Out of the options left I was most intrigued by Thomas Frank. It's would've been a gamble but I believe he's a good coach.
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I do believe he has survived due to the fact none of the below were available

Guardiola
Klopp
Ancelotti
Alonso
Nagelsmann
Inzaghi
Simeone
Enrique
 
Salford_Red83 said:
Did you, and the rest of the people that desperately want him to stay, forget the absolute travesty of a season he just served up?

Like, did yous just blank out:
4 - 0 v Palace
1 - 1 v Burnley
3 (4) - 3 (2) v Coventry - after winning 3 - 0 at half time and not losing in the final minutes by the virtue of VAR.
2 - 2 v Bournemouth
4 - 3 v Chelsea (after winning in the 90th minute only to end up losing)
1 - 1 v Brentford (scoring in the 90+ minutes only to immediately concede)
1 - 2 v Fulham
0 - 3 v Bournemouth
0 - 1 v Crystal Palace
1 - 3 v Brighton

Or the absolute disastrous Champions League campaign.

Or being dumped out of the League Cup 0 - 3 at home to Newcastle.

Or struggling to beat Newport in the FA Cup.

These results alone should have seen him go months ago.

But wait there's more you must have blanked out:
9 games lost at Old Trafford.
14 PL games lost this season.
19 games lost in all competitions.
85 goals conceded in all competitions.
58 goals conceded in the PL.
57 goals scored in the PL.
Negative goal difference.
Lowest ever position finish in the PL.
Highest number of shots faced in a PL season.
Bottom of our CL group.

You can't chalk all of this up to "injuries". The buck stops with him. Do you think that's all going to suddenly change next season?

I feel like I'm in the bloody Twilight Zone.
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Borninthe80ts said:
It’s cool if you want to list the bad times but I’m sure I could list games too where we’ve beat teams who are currently better then us or where we played well too.
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Hey man, if you can list more positives than his negatives, then we'll keep him
 
The holy trinity 68 said:
Several players have visibly improved under him regardless of this season. Dalot, Garnacho, Mainoo, Hojlund, Amad, McTominay. It's not all doom and gloom.
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I'm not saying that it is. But if we need someone to help him tactically (and I mean IF), then maybe we need someone else altogether.

It's the same as it was with Solskjaer.
 
croadyman said:
I do believe he has survived due to the fact none of the below were available

Guardiola
Klopp
Ancelotti
Alonso
Nagelsmann
Inzaghi
Simeone
Enrique
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according to the athletic article, which is well sourced, they went as far as discussing financials with Tuchel and De Zerbi. I wonder what went wrong with either after that.
 
Gavinb33 said:
Why do a lot of poster on this forum have such a hard on for Real Madrid? like you can go support them if you want

Anyway on this news you can have a nuanced view and say it was probably right to sack him if they did and if they kept him also you can see why also, i am ok with him staying i think we'll be better next season based on nothing more than a gut feeling, we need to have good summer recruitment though so hopefully now this has been done we can move on and get some targets in that arent involved in the Euros or Copa so they are ready for the start of pre season training.
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It's not a love for Real Madrid, just a reminder of where we used to be alongside them and people wanting to get back there.
 
Godfather said:
Now that would be incredibly stupid but I doubt INEOS are that idiotic. Surely they'll wait until winter before handing out a contract?
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INEOS are a company that makes chemicals. They are now running our club. How is this that much different from the Glazer's handing the reins to Woodward?
 
essao said:
Mourinho won 3 trophies(the community shield is also a trophy,no?) in one season and still turned out to be crap. INEOS have proved to be miniGlazers but with more bureaucracy. Even a team like Nice is just another yo-yo club.
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Thats up to you to decide, I dont count the Community shield as a trophy.

I dont get your point though.. Ole didnt win a trophy and he wasnt good enough either.
 
Wednesday at Stoke said:
according to the athletic article, which is well sourced, they went as far as discussing financials with Tuchel and De Zerbi. I wonder what went wrong with either after that.
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Thought article said they weren't sure about De Zerbi as a fit, in terms of Tuchel we will probably never know what put Utd off him or vice versa
 
Dans said:
INEOS are a company that makes chemicals. They are now running our club. How is this that much different from the Glazer's handing the reins to Woodward?
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They also have teams in sports, albeit not the sport we all love but what I am trying to say is the sports side of INEOS have good people in sports science etc. Marginal gains so I feel they will be much better handlers then the God damn Glazers rats and their lackey Woodward.
 
Berbaclass said:
There are literally 5 credible journalists all reporting it.
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Yeah I have read through article now, very surprised that Tuchel didn't get appointed if it got as far as discussing financials. Nothing in that article mentions him not being happy with certain things so I wonder what made it break down.
 
Red_Manc_M15 said:
They also have teams in sports, albeit not the sport we all love but what I am trying to say is the sports side of INEOS have good people in sports science etc. Marginal gains so I feel they will be much better handlers then the God damn Glazers rats and their lackey Woodward.
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They own two football clubs as well as the cycling and sailing teams don't they?
 
Jezpeza said:
I am hoping the FA Cup win kickstarts a resurgence. Its rare for managers to come out of the rut that last season became. I’m not sure how effective pre season will be with the euros but we should have injuries back and some new signings. Hopefully we kick on.

I was ETH out but if the board have given him the nod i’ll get behind him because I dont want him to do badly just to prove a point - if he does badly it means the team is doing badly. Hopefully by 6 games in this proves to be a good decision
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With you on this, yeah. I was EtH out as well, but I’ll support him and the team (of course), though I still think he’s a lucky, lucky man. Hopefully Ineos show more ruthlessness with the squad turnover than they did here. Onwards and upwards I say.
 
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